68 réponses à ce sujet

[Kevin745]

What about combining the two systems from 1 and 2-3. That you would have heat bar but also some thermal clips and it would work like that: You could fire normally just filling the heat but you could at any moment switch the thermal clip to reset the heat bar. I think It would be great! What do you think about it?

[Revan Reborn]

Weapons were way too over-powered in ME1. Part of the reason gameplay was so terrible was because it was so easy to prevent your gun from overheating. Due to the inherent heat sinks in these weapons, BioWare had to turn all the enemies into bullet sponges (especially on Insanity) just to make the game seem challenging.

 

I prefer thermal clips. It severely undercuts the power of weapons by not allowing you to shoot forever and cuts down on your damage per second considerably. It's a fine balancing mechanic and I see no reason to change it.

[Bowlcuts]

I wish they would just get rid of thermal clips, nothing special about that ****.

If anything, it should work as the weapon's ammunition isn't restricted to rounds. But instead, once it overheats you eject the thermal clip and cooldown the weapon by another thermal clip. But of course the game says that's how it works but that's not true since 0 thermal clips = 0 shots.

[Quarian Master Race]

Hybrid system as in ME3. Keep thermal clip weapons the same or give us normal magazines with normal bullets/shells (which is functionally the same thing from a gameplay perspective, but makes more sense). Adopt Battlefront's overheat and cooling/flush mechanics for those with heatsinks, with heat management detached from passive skills, so they can  be balanced effectively instead of either A) being underpowered because they overheat every 2 seconds or B ) firing literally forever like in ME1.

[Laughing_Man]

If they really need the reload action for MP so people can do the reload-cancel BS and feel like complete pros, I wish they'll get rid of the grain-sized-bullets shebang entirely, and just replace it with actual magazines with bigger projectiles.

 

(which will make sense more anyway for "realism" reasons, because of effectiveness, stopping power, preventing over-penetration,

preventing those tiny grains from burning up due to the friction with the air, allowing for "ammo powers" to make more sense - how can you transform

a grain sized metal particle into explosive munition?...)

[The Elcor Spectre]

In ME2/3, I always feel like i'm shooting bullets instead of heat based weaponry, When I reload, I feel like i'm putting in bullets instead of cooling down the weapon. In ME:A, either they could 

 

(1) Improve on ME1 system (I have no ideas on any improvements atm)

(2) Improve on ME2/3 system, but actually give me the impression of shooting heat based weaponry

(3) Give us actually bullets (Which I REALLY don't want)

[xAmilli0n]

In ME2/3, I always feel like i'm shooting bullets instead of heat based weaponry, When I reload, I feel like i'm putting in bullets instead of cooling down the weapon. In ME:A, either they could 

 

(1) Improve on ME1 system (I have no ideas on any improvements atm)

(2) Improve on ME2/3 system, but actually give me the impression of shooting heat based weaponry

(3) Give us actually bullets (Which I REALLY don't want)

 

I guess they could do something like the plasma weapons in Halo?

[The Elcor Spectre]

Also, one thing I never understood, is putting incendiary ammo on heat ammunition...

[Bowlcuts]

Also, one thing I never understood, is putting incendiary ammo on heat ammunition...

Space magic.

No really, I guess you're just modifying the rounds via the weapon itself or omni-tool.

[The Elcor Spectre]

Space magic.

No really, I guess you're just modifying the rounds via the weapon itself or omni-tool.

 

But... you're already shooting projectiles that should burn someone... 

[Bowlcuts]

But... you're already shooting projectiles that should burn someone... 

Yeah, none of it makes sense. I guess, the thermal clip is what holds the ammunition's capacity and the rounds themselves are just...like, bullets? Idk.

[UpUpAway]

Weapons were way too over-powered in ME1. Part of the reason gameplay was so terrible was because it was so easy to prevent your gun from overheating. Due to the inherent heat sinks in these weapons, BioWare had to turn all the enemies into bullet sponges (especially on Insanity) just to make the game seem challenging.

 

I prefer thermal clips. It severely undercuts the power of weapons by not allowing you to shoot forever and cuts down on your damage per second considerably. It's a fine balancing mechanic and I see no reason to change it.

 

You're right on the money with that one.  Call it ammo (which is was it really feels like) or thermal clips, IDC - Overall, the system in ME2 & 3 works much better, IMO.

[SolNebula]

I want overheating back in MEA. Finding thermal clips around on uncharted planets or dropped by native aliens would insta-kill the immersion for me. In an open-world game centered around exploration of uncharted planets....overheating provides a quick and easy solution to lack of supplies these kind of operations tend to have.

[Killroy]

Thermal clips make no sense in Andromeda. They made no sense in the Milky Way, but they would be completely moronic in Andromeda. The gameplay relies on environments being littered with thermal clips and enemies ejecting them upon death. That cannot make any sense whatsoever in Andromeda. There's also the matter of resources. Why rely on manufacturing those stupid thermal clips that are one-time use items, take up a lot of space, and waste resources? Heat sinks make more sense.

[UpUpAway]

I want overheating back in MEA. Finding thermal clips around on uncharted planets or dropped by native aliens would insta-kill the immersion for me. In an open-world game centered around exploration of uncharted planets....overheating provides a quick and easy solution to lack of supplies these kind of operations tend to have.

 

What about only finding ones dropped by fallen enemies (they've got to be shooting something at you, right?)? or having to mete out only what you can carry on you and resort solely to powers if you run out? but not having to turn the enemies into ridiculous "bullet sponges" just to compensate for an infinite cycle of heat management.  I remember one time on Ontarom chasing one enemy around that whole mountain repeatedly pumping him full of High Explosive rounds with my sniper rifle... even got back in the Mako and hit him twice with that before he finally dissolved.

[SolNebula]

What about only finding ones dropped by fallen enemies (they've got to be shooting something at you, right?)? or having to mete out only what you can carry on you and resort solely to powers if you run out?

That would not work because fallen enemies would be aliens with Andromedan weapons totally incompatible with our systems. Also the second option wouldn't work because the soldier class is dependent on weapons and not powers. Overheating is simple easy and doesn't require design changes while remaining plausible in Andromeda.

[Quarian Master Race]

Thermal clips make no sense in Andromeda. They made no sense in the Milky Way, but they would be completely moronic in Andromeda. The gameplay relies on environments being littered with thermal clips and enemies ejecting them upon death. 

That's a problem with gameplay contrivances designed to introduce a system for scavenging resources (or not really, as of ME3 and its convenient ammo boxes everywhere), not the clips themselves. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to carry dozens of them except the designers don't want us (or rather don't want the PC to, squadmates are fine apparently). Modern soldiers often go into combat with hundreds of rounds of ammo in a dozen or more bulky magazines that are much larger and heavier than thermal clips, in addition to several dozen kilos of other gear. 

Personally, I'd have preferred if they just gave us a larger, fixed number of clips going into each mission rather than that. If you are poor at managing it and run out, you still have powers and melee, or you can restart. Soldier, Infiltrator etc get a higher capacity because they rely more on the weapon.
 

 There's also the matter of resources. Why rely on manufacturing those stupid thermal clips that are one-time use items, take up a lot of space, and waste resources? Heat sinks make more sense.

If the cost-benefit analysis is in favour of the clip weapons in terms of performance (power, sustained fire rate etc) as it was stated and shown to be in the previous games, then it isn't a waste of resources. It's actually an analogous tradeoff to manufacturing multiple quickly replacable barrels for the purposes of heat management for a squad automatic weapon, instead of taking a less complex but inferior in performance single barreled weapon(e.g. M249 SAW vs RPK) . Different armies take either of these approaches depending on their doctrine and the tactical role the weapon is designed to fill.

I actually think there's an interesting idea here for weapon variety. Have the lighter weapons that would be intended the more power focused classes use heatsinks. They suit them better anyway, since you can cool the weapon between power uses. Heavier weapons intended for weapon platform classes could be reliant on clips. ME3 had both (albiet the selection was heavily weighted in favour of the clip weapons). Shooter bros and wanabe space mages can then both choose the option they want. Everyone wins.
 

[CHRrOME]

I'd like to see all systems combined in different weapons, just for the sake of variety.

Heat based weapons (Lancer), thermal clip based weapons (Avenger).

Maybe some heat based that require you to manually "reload" whenever you want. Slightly different of what we had in ME3 in which the weapon will burn your hands if it overheats and you will have to eat 5-8 secs of cooldown. With this system I have in mind you could shoot 3 rounds, "reload", and get a bonus in reload speed. The more "bullets left in the gun" the quicker the "reload" is. And if you overheat the gun you can decide when to vent the heat so it wont annoy you in the middle of a fight.

[Killroy]

That's a problem with gameplay contrivances designed to introduce a system for scavenging resources (or not really, as of ME3 and its convenient ammo boxes everywhere), not the clips themselves. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to carry dozens of them except the designers don't want us (or rather don't want the PC to, squadmates are fine apparently). Modern soldiers often go into combat with hundreds of rounds of ammo in a dozen or more bulky magazines that are much larger and heavier than thermal clips, in addition to several dozen kilos of other gear. 

Personally, I'd have preferred if they just gave us a larger, fixed number of clips going into each mission rather than that. If you are poor at managing it and run out, you still have powers and melee, or you can restart. Soldier, Infiltrator etc get a higher capacity because they rely more on the weapon.
 

If the cost-benefit analysis is in favour of the clip weapons in terms of performance (power, sustained fire rate etc) as it was stated and shown to be in the previous games, then it isn't a waste of resources. It's actually an analogous tradeoff to manufacturing multiple quickly replacable barrels for the purposes of heat management for a squad automatic weapon, instead of taking a less complex but inferior in performance single barreled weapon(e.g. M249 SAW vs RPK) . Different armies take either of these approaches depending on their doctrine and the tactical role the weapon is designed to fill.

I actually think there's an interesting idea here for weapon variety. Have the lighter weapons that would be intended the more power focused classes use heatsinks. They suit them better anyway, since you can cool the weapon between power uses. Heavier weapons intended for weapon platform classes could be reliant on clips. ME3 had both (albiet the selection was heavily weighted in favour of the clip weapons). Shooter bros and wanabe space mages can then both choose the option they want. Everyone wins.
 

 

This all ignores the obvious problems. Where are the resources coming from to manufacture these clips? If they have to rely on finding, mining and refining the resources in the Andromeda galaxy then the expedition is run by complete morons. 

 

Modern soldiers can burn through ammo all they want because there's always more back at base, always more being manufactured by the palette. An expedition to another galaxy doesn't have the luxury. If modern soldiers only had the bullets they're carrying and knew that they may never get any more, they would be finding other ways to kill stuff right quick.

[UpUpAway]

That would not work because fallen enemies would be aliens with Andromedan weapons totally incompatible with our systems. Also the second option wouldn't work because the soldier class is dependent on weapons and not powers. Overheating is simple easy and doesn't require design changes while remaining plausible in Andromeda.

 

For the first mission or so... then the group scavenge Andromedan weapons off fallen Andromedans and supply them with whatever ammo the Andromedans use.  As stated, soldiers can be equipped to carry more ammo into battle at the outset because they rely more heavily on their weapons.

 

 

 

This all ignores the obvious problems. Where are the resources coming from to manufacture these clips? If they have to rely on finding, mining and refining the resources in the Andromeda galaxy then the expedition is run by complete morons. 

 

Modern soldiers can burn through ammo all they want because there's always more back at base, always more being manufactured by the palette. An expedition to another galaxy doesn't have the luxury. If modern soldiers only had the bullets they're carrying and knew that they may never get any more, they would be finding other ways to kill stuff right quick.

 

Where are any of the resources coming from to wage an ongoing war, period?  Heat sinks or no, trying to wage a war with no way to resupply anything is less realistic than scavenging ammo and weapons off of fallen enemies.

[Killroy]

Where are any of the resources coming from to wage an ongoing war, period?  Heat sinks or no, trying to wage a war with no way to resupply anything is less realistic than scavenging ammo and weapons off of fallen enemies.

 

Do you not know where bullets come from? They're manufactured and sent where they're needed. 

And relying on getting your weapons and ammunition from the enemies is silly as well. Once you run out of resources you have to hope you can kill enough enemies to arm your forces.

[UpUpAway]

Do you not know where bullets come from? They're manufactured and sent where they're needed. 

And relying on getting your weapons and ammunition from the enemies is silly as well. Once you run out of resources you have to hope you can kill enough enemies to arm your forces.

 

So, you do have a way to resupply... shipping them where the supplies are needed. Hence soldiers can take a supply with them from the ship before the battle and if they use that up in the battle, they rely on powers or melee to finish the battle... or in a pinch they can pick up a weapon from a fallen enemy and use that (not necessarily relying on it, but using what's there if they have to.  No soldier in their right mind would eschew picking up a loaded weapon or suitable ammo if their own weapon was out.

 

The problem with any infinite ammo system is that it invariably results in "bullet sponge" enemies and wars of attrition where the "attrition" only occurs on the side of the enemies.  Such battles require no real tactical plan to take down the enemies efficiently so as to stay within a limited supply of resources (ammo and manpower).

[Killroy]

So, you do have a way to resupply... shipping them where the supplies are needed. Hence soldiers can take a supply with them from the ship before the battle and if they use that up in the battle, they rely on powers or melee to finish the battle... or in a pinch they can pick up a weapon from a fallen enemy and use that (not necessarily relying on it, but using what's there if they have to.  No soldier in their right mind would eschew picking up a loaded weapon or suitable ammo if their own weapon was out.

Where are the endless thermal clips coming from?
 

The problem with any infinite ammo system is that it invariably results in "bullet sponge" enemies and wars of attrition where the "attrition" only occurs on the side of the enemies.  Such battles require no real tactical plan to take down the enemies efficiently so as to stay within a limited supply of resources (ammo and manpower).

This is pure gibberish. It comes down to proper game design.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I'd rather they mix the two systems; instead of being ammo, have clips be used to instantly counter gun overheating and be either craftable or semi-rare drop from enemies.

[Quarian Master Race]

This all ignores the obvious problems. Where are the resources coming from to manufacture these clips? If they have to rely on finding, mining and refining the resources in the Andromeda galaxy then the expedition is run by complete morons. 

Literally any space rock that you are already visiting for ice-water and other metal/ mineral resources we need for manufactured components? To take your argument a step further, where are the resources coming from for the actual ammo blocks already in the weapons (which do run out and require replacement, just not in gameplay). Why don't we just use swords and spears?

because they're less effective. Same reasoning, just a different scale. You want every potential advantage you can get
 

Modern soldiers can burn through ammo all they want because there's always more back at base, always more being manufactured by the palette. An expedition to another galaxy doesn't have the luxury. If modern soldiers only had the bullets they're carrying and knew that they may never get any more, they would be finding other ways to kill stuff right quick.

Why not? Thermal clips don't seem like a time or resource intensive manufacturing item considering they're very small and entirely disposable. Besides, you're gonna complain about something like this in a universe where I can manufacture and shoot infinite Fire/ Ice missiles from my space magic omni tool's minifactory, complete with their own internal guidance system?

You don't need 8 factories to do something like this. A small workshop would likely be more than enough to produce hundreds or thousands per day.

 

And relying on getting your weapons and ammunition from the enemies is silly as well. Once you run out of resources you have to hope you can kill enough enemies to arm your forces.

Don't disagree. It was silly design that made for tedious gameplay, but that isn't the fault of the clips themselves.