67 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

In Trespasser, your Inquisitor ends up losing the arm that bears the Anchor / Mark, whether they like it or not. This naturally means that their combat performance will be adversely affected.

 

So realistically, what kind of Inquisitor will be able to survive that ? By this I mean what class of Inquisitor will be able to survive that ?

 

I personally think that the only Inquisitor that can survive the loss of one arm is the Double Dagger Rogue Inquisitor. The rest are screwed.

 

A Two Handed Warrior Inquisitor cannot wield a Two Handed weapon anymore. A Sword and Shield Inquisitor can wield a sword on the functioning arm but they cannot wield a Shield anymore.

 

A Mage Inquisitor requires two hands to use a staff and perform the hand motions for necessary for spellcasting. Okay, maybe they can learn to use a staff with one hand but they still need another hand for spellcasting. Knight Enchanter Inquisitor is further screwed since they have to choose between empty hand for spellcasting or spirit blade or staff.

 

An Archer Rogue cannot use a bow anymore since bow requires two hands. Yes they could use a crossbow but they need another hand to reload the crossbow which they won't have. A Double Dagger Rogue is have to make do with using just one dagger, making them a Single Dagger Rogue but at least they can function as they used to with some reduction in damage.

 

Thoughts ?

[Just My Moniker]

Rogue - Dual wield: As you said, fine.

Rogue - Archery: Crossbow arm attachment

 

Warrior - Sword&Board: Shield arm attachment

Warrior - Two handed: ???

 

Mage - All Classes: Spells could probably be relearned one handed, though I don't have any evidence to back that up

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Rogue - Dual wield: As you said, fine.

Rogue - Archery: Crossbow arm attachment

 

Warrior - Sword&Board: Shield arm attachment

Warrior - Two handed: ???

 

Mage - All Classes: Spells could probably be relearned one handed, though I don't have any evidence to back that up

 

It has been widely established that a mage without a staff is rather underpowered. The exceptions include Evanuris-level mages. You need two hand to use a staff effectively. Or you can train yourself to use staff in one hand but you still need another hand for spellcasting. As for dreamer-esque magic, I don't think our Inquisitor is capable of that. Solas is, as you can see from Trespasser where he just thinks and it happens but I doubt the Inquisitor is that powerful.

 

You can still cast spell with just one hand but without a staff, it would be underpowered.

[Lazarillo]

If Quizzie is a Warrior and a Reaver, all is well.  Magic dragon hands!

[fhs33721]

It has been widely established that a mage without a staff is rather underpowered.

Where?

[Lazarillo]

Where?

 

Well, there were a couple mooks in DA2 who claimed "they can't use no magic if they can't use their hands!", though they promptly got fricasseed by an Abomination, so I'd take that with a grain of salt.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Where?

 

My bad. This is due to gameplay & segregation. No, this limitation only exists because of gameplay. Mages above a certain power level don't really need staves.

 

So we can say that the mage Inquisitor and the double dagger rogue Inquisitor are the ones who survive the loss of an arm without much of an issue.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

All they need is a prosthetic arm and then all classes would still work. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

All they need is a prosthetic arm and then all classes would still work. 

 

Prosthetic arm is currently beyond the technological capabilities in Thedas. So far Thedosian technology has only managed to manufacture cannons, steam engines, farming equipment and medieval weapons and armor.

 

You could make the case for a magical prosthetic arm but it would not work because in order to make a functioning prosthetic arm you need to understand the biological systems such as muscular system, nervous system and skeletal system. Thedas medicine, both conventional and magical, has not advanced to this point.

 

Though knowing Bioware writers, they might do it anyway.

[AlanC9]

You could make the case for a magical prosthetic arm but it would not work because in order to make a functioning prosthetic arm you need to understand the biological systems such as muscular system, nervous system and skeletal system. Thedas medicine, both conventional and magical, has not advanced to this point.

Why would you need to understand the mechanics of how a real arm functions? For the nervous system, you need the arm to do what the owner wills it to. A bound spirit can read that intent, from what we've seen, so it's then a matter of passing that to the arm. And duplicating the specific functionality of the skeletal and muscular systems is just a mistake. Scientists who are working on ambulatory robots don't try to mimic the functions of particular bones and muscles.

[thats1evildude]

Well, there were a couple mooks in DA2 who claimed "they can't use no magic if they can't use their hands!", though they promptly got fricasseed by an Abomination, so I'd take that with a grain of salt.

In Leliana's Song, the Hard Line were also going to cut off Sketch's hands to keep him from casting spells.

The saarebas can cast spells without a tongue, but still needs both hands free.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Prosthetic arm is currently beyond the technological capabilities in Thedas. So far Thedosian technology has only managed to manufacture cannons, steam engines, farming equipment and medieval weapons and armor.

No it's not. We had prosthetic limbs that allowed people to continue fighting, riding, and writing in our own medieval times, and we didn't have magic and super engineers like Dwarves and Qunari. Steam engines emerged almost two centuries after those prosthetic limbs were created, so if Thedas has those they can have prosthetics. Hissrad/The Iron Bull was originally going to have a prosthetic limb, and when asked if the Inquisitor could get a prosthetic limb Patrick Weekes and others at Bioware expressed how it was a possibility. So Bioware certainly seems to think Thedas has prosthetics or the potential to.  

[Ghost Gal]

In Trespasser, your Inquisitor ends up losing the arm that bears the Anchor / Mark, whether they like it or not. This naturally means that their combat performance will be adversely affected.

 

They can adapt and adjust their combat style to fit their new set of circumstances.

 

So realistically, what kind of Inquisitor will be able to survive that ? By this I mean what class of Inquisitor will be able to survive that ?

 

Well, that's incredibly Ableist of you. Compare the loss of one limb to the loss of life (because a person loses all value the second they're not 100% able-bodied), and place all worth of the person in the thing they can no longer do. If you can't fight exactly as well as you used to back when you had that extra arm, then you can't fight well at all. That extra fighting ability that came with that extra arm is where ALL the combat talent and worthiness lies, so now that you don't have it anymore don't bother trying to adjust your combat style to fit your new circumstances or work around your disability. Just give up fighting completely, go home and sit down and wait for death.

 

A Two Handed Warrior Inquisitor cannot wield a Two Handed weapon anymore.

 

So? They can learn to wield a one-handed weapon.

 

A Sword and Shield Inquisitor can wield a sword on the functioning arm but they cannot wield a Shield anymore.

 

Again, going with the obvious: learn to fight with just the sword. However, I think this class is the most prosthetic-limb friendly since you don't necessarily need to replace functioning fingers, just a hunk of solid to attach the shield. They can attach a prosthetic forearm, attach a shield to that prosthetic forearm, and then retrain themselves to fight sword-and-shield with that new prosthetic forearm.

 

A Mage Inquisitor requires two hands to use a staff and perform the hand motions for necessary for spellcasting. Okay, maybe they can learn to use a staff with one hand but they still need another hand for spellcasting.

 

A mage only really needs one hand to hold a staff, and then to cast spells by pointing the damn staff and firing spells.

 

Okay, they can no longer do a bunch of fancy two-handed flips and twirls with their staff, but that's not exactly necessary for combat. They can, again, retrain themselves to fight one-handed.

 

Knight Enchanter Inquisitor is further screwed since they have to choose between empty hand for spellcasting or spirit blade or staff.

 

That's no different from how Knight Enchanters already function. Have you actually played as one? The Inquisitor already can't use the spirit blade and cast spells at the same time. That is, the game doesn't let you strike a foe with the spirit blade and shoot spells with the staff at the same time. This is not exactly a huge loss, here.

 

An Archer Rogue cannot use a bow anymore since bow requires two hands. Yes they could use a crossbow but they need another hand to reload the crossbow which they won't have.

 

One-armed archery exists.

 

Also, necessity is the mother of invention. They could probably get Dagna to invent a way to reload a bow / crossbow without that extra hand.

 

A Double Dagger Rogue is have to make do with using just one dagger, making them a Single Dagger Rogue but at least they can function as they used to with some reduction in damage.

 

Oh, that's funny. A two-handed warrior can't learn to fight with a one-handed sword, and a sword-and-shield warrior can't learn to fight without the shield, and a mage can't learn to just point and shoot with their staff one-handed, but ONLY a double-dagger rogue can learn to fight without an extra dagger. I see how it is.

 

Thoughts ?

 

As others have said, a simple prosthetic limb could take care of most of the problems you listed above. So could inventive new combat techniques and even weaponized inventions to adjust to and make up for the lack of that extra arm. Sure, fighting without that extra arm is more challenging, but it's not impossible. Sure, the Inquisitor will probably not fight as well as s/he used to for a long time, but that doesn't mean s/he cannot fight well at all. Sure, there will probably be a difficult adjusting period where the Inquisitor re-trains themselves how to fight without that arm and/or with a prosthetic limb, but that doesn't mean they can't fight at all, nor that they should just sit at home and lament all the things they can't do without their left arm and wait for death.

[Lazarillo]

As others have said, a simple prosthetic limb could take care of most of the problems you listed above. So could inventive new combat techniques and even weaponized inventions to adjust to and make up for the lack of that extra arm. Sure, fighting without that extra arm is more challenging, but it's not impossible. Sure, the Inquisitor will probably not fight as well as s/he used to for a long time, but that doesn't mean s/he cannot fight well at all. Sure, there will probably be a difficult adjusting period where the Inquisitor re-trains themselves how to fight without that arm and/or with a prosthetic limb, but that doesn't mean they can't fight at all, nor that they should just sit at home and lament all the things they can't do without their left arm and wait for death.

On the one hand, I don't disagree with you. There are plenty of ways Quizzie could adapt, if such were necessary, pretty much regardless of background. On the other hand, let's not forget that the "level 1 at the beginning of the game" bit aside, Quizzie already has years of experience fighting with his or her preferred style. You acknowledge that it will take work, but I think you might be underestimating the level of work it might take to fight one-armed, considering it's also a matter of unlearning if not everything, then a considerable amount of what s/he knew previously. Plus, let's not forget that it's Quizzie him/herself that goes "look, no left hand, I'mma retire" at the end of Trespasser. So I think it's not unreasonable for players to take Quizzie at his/her word.

Of course, that's a fairly "realistic" point of view for it anyway, and last I checked, DA pretty much told reality to take a hike, so in a narrative sense, there's no reason the story needs to keep Quizzie handicapped.

Acknowledging both sides, though, I do hope that handicapped or not, s/he stays retired, just because I don't want to see him/her back in person in the future anyway.

[ModernAcademic]

In Trespasser, your Inquisitor ends up losing the arm that bears the Anchor / Mark, whether they like it or not. This naturally means that their combat performance will be adversely affected.

 

So realistically, what kind of Inquisitor will be able to survive that ? By this I mean what class of Inquisitor will be able to survive that ?

 

As she always did; by continuing to perform her job as the head of the Inquisition, an international organisation with a huge impact in politics, helping to secure or affect bilateral alliances, serving as a diplomat, a peacekeeper in the South as a mediator between Orlais and Ferelden, helping the economy by providing infrastructure to facilitate trades and exploration of natural resources, supervising public works and attending political and social meetings to speak on behalf of the Inquisition, serving the military by training soldiers to patrol the roads and ensure safety to travelers and continue to make any strategic decisions that are required of someone of her stature.

 

I always said the Inquisitor is the head, not the arm that stretches through the land to perform menial tasks. She leads. To lead, one needs to consider the information available (already collected for her by the people assigned for that task) and make hard decisions with big and possibly unpredictable effects in various countries and societies. You do that from your chair, using your head and discussing your ideas with your coworkers. It's a job that doesn't require a hand at all. Other people serve the Inquisition solely to go to places and execute her orders. Otherwise, why have such a huge organisation if you're the one doing almost all the work?

 

Trust me, a leader is always busy. You think only office boys and the general staff are kept busy? CEOs have a busy agenda and the weight of the company's future plus hundreds of employees's lives on their shoulders. They're better off doing what they are good at than going around and sending dozens of e-mails to business partners, phoning people all around the planet to set up important meetings (or cancel them) as well as any other menial task better left to an assistant. 

[thats1evildude]

I think the Inquisitor is severely handicapped by the loss of an arm. Not incapable. Not useless. But nonetheless, severely handicapped.

Mages use their hands to direct spells. Two-handed warriors can no longer put their full power behind each swing. Archers need a free hand to reach for arrows. Even a dagger rogue generally relies on using both daggers in combat.

A majority of every Inquisitor's talents are now useless. Yes, they can fight, but the days of the Inquisitor being an unstoppable killing machine are over.

But still, they are a capable commander that potentially has ancient elven knowledge at their disposal. The Inquisitor isn't done, they just can't lead from the front anymore.

[Kakistos_]

A Mage Inquisitor would be fine. A Staff is not required to cast Spells.

 

Rogue - Dual wield: As you said, fine.

Rogue - Archery: Crossbow arm attachment

 

Warrior - Sword&Board: Shield arm attachment

Warrior - Two handed: ???

 

Mage - All Classes: Spells could probably be relearned one handed, though I don't have any evidence to back that up

In DA:O Staves were optional and I'm pretty sure we have seen Mages casting powerful Spells without them in various cutscenes throughout the games.

[Just My Moniker]

A Mage Inquisitor would be fine. A Staff is not required to cast Spells.

 

In DA:O Staves were optional and I'm pretty sure we have seen Mages casting powerful Spells without them in various cutscenes throughout the games.

I know mages can cast spells without staffs (My HoF does that )

 

I'm just not certain that spells could be cast one handed though (I do know that Mind Blast, at least in DA2, was able to be cast with one arm but I can't recall if there were any others)

[Serza]

The hand? Yes. It's gone. You're not getting it back.

 

[Ieldra]

Prosthetic arm is currently beyond the technological capabilities in Thedas.

This man would disagree.

 

As for the mage Inquisitor: spells can be cast without a staff (Mage Inquisitor: "I don't need a staff to be dangerous"), and nowhere is it established that spellcasting even needs hands - our Inquisitors can cast spells while never letting go of their staffs. Spellcasting is mostly a mental discipline. I suppose gestures might make it easier to focus your mind, but they're not essential. At least experienced mages should be able to make things happen just by concentrating. 

[Abyss108]

Prophetic arms aren't too advanced at all. Iron Bull was originally going to have one, you can see it in his concept art. They wouldn't have gone to the trouble of designing something they didn't think could have existed. So that fixes the issue. It's not an issue for mages either, as you don't technically need hand movements to cast spells, it's just to help focus.

[Serza]

The question is, how much would said prosthetic be comparable to an actual arm.

[Catilina]

The Inquisition do not have pension benefits for veterans?

[Abyss108]

The question is, how much would said prosthetic be comparable to an actual arm.

 

If they thought Iron Bull could fight with one, I don't see why the Inquisitors couldn't! 

 

It's also worth noting in one of the comics someone regrew their lost arm. Though I don't want that to happen again.

[Serza]

Well, if you disband...