32 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticondurus]

So gonna play it on H-core - which bonus talent from Char. Creation would u suggest  ? Reave? Barrier? lmk

[The Grey Ranger]

Stasis is always a solid option, since it rag dolls the enemies on expiration, making them very vulnerable to weapons damage.  Enemy falls down, shotgun to the face.

[This is the End My Friend]

I always role with Reave. Most of the time I end up running around doing Reave/Nova combos instead of Charge, well at least at Hardcore difficulty. It doesn't work so well on Insanity. 

 

[Edit]

 

LOL. Nevermind. Wrong game.

[Ticondurus]

Is Barrier useful at all? I was rolling with Barrier in ME1 as a Vanguard and didn't die much - not sure if it's as useful in ME2.  I was thinking Barrier, then Charge maybe? Or am I missing something?

 

I see Reave mentioned a lot - why is that?

[Myalzalean]

Barrier is decent as an "oh s**t" button, especially if you just did a biotic charge into a world of hurt.

 

What turns off most people is the 12 second cool down associated with it, so if you cast Barrier you have to wait 12 seconds until you can cast Charge.

 

Reave is a crowd favorite because it damages barriers and armor similar to Warp but also steals health from unprotected organic enemies and transfers it to Shepard.

 

Stasis and Slam are both popular bonus powers, stasis for the ragdoll bonus damage as mentioned above and staggering protected enemies, while slam has a nice short cooldown that doesn't get in the way of charging as much.

 

Neural shock is also decent as it too staggers protected enemies but drops any unprotected organics including husks and charging varren/krogen that have their defenses stripped. It also has a very low cooldown. 

[Ticondurus]

Ok thanks - what would your suggestion be of those? I haven't played with Charge (seems fun) - so not sure what compliments it well.  I think I tried Reave once - is there even an animation associated with it? Or is it just "life/shield drain" ?

 

Also, I haven't played on Hardcore before.  I mostly played defensively in ME1 with Barrier and maxxed out pistols.  I do like to be in the thick of things instead of hiding, if possible.

 

And have you played with any of those as a Vanguard?

[RedCaesar97]

The best two bonus powers for ME2 Vanguard are Stasis or Slam.

 

 

Stasis: Holds all enemies in place for a short duration. There is a bug/exploit where enemies falling out of stasis take insane amounts of damage. It can instant-kill enemy turrets and drones. Stasis require completing Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC at least once with any current or previous Shepard.

 

Note: There is a weird bug on PC where even if you have unlocked Stasis previously, you cannot select Stasis as a bonus power immediately when starting a new Shepard. You will have to either mod it in, or wait until you recruit Mordin to gain access to the research terminal to switch your bonus power.

 

Slam: Can set up enemies for Warp bombs during the lift animation. (Slam > Miranda/Thane warp = warp bomb). Slam is a good substitute for Pull onn the Vanguard since it means you can ignore putting points into Shockwave which is really not all that good, particularly on higher difficulties. Slam requires completing Miranda's loyalty mission at least once. 

 

 

Both Slam and Stasis are considered "1-point wonders" since they work great at rank 1. (Neural Shock is also considered a 1-point wonder).

 

 

I know a lot of players like Reave on the Vanguard, but I do not see much use for it. Charge will replenish your barriers to keep you alive. Reave also has a 6-second base cooldown which means it will fight with Charge for your cooldown. Since you are going to use Charge anyway, Reave just ends up getting in the way. That being said, it deals double damage to armor and barriers, and when used against organic health, it can leech health from the enemy to Shepard. At rank 6 it van be evolved to gain a radius to hit multiple enemies. 

 

Stasis also has a 6-second base cooldown, but it is a situational power on the Vanguard so you will be using it sparingly, mostly on YMIR mechs and Scions.

 

Slam has a 3-second cooldown and is good for the occasional enemy you cannot charge.

 

 

 

Most of the better Vanguard players level up their Vanguard like this:

1. Max Charge to Heavy Charge (100% barrier + time dilation)

2. Max Assault Mastery to either Destroyer (more weapon damage) or Champion (quicker cooldowns). I recommend Champion.

3. Max Incendiary Ammo to Inferno Ammo (area of effect). Incendiary Ammo can panic organic enemies; if Inferno Ammo panics one organic enemy, it will panic all organic enemies in the radius regardless of protection layers.

 

After that, you either want Cryo Ammo to Squad Cryo Ammo (to give squadmates a little crowd-control option), or you can focus on getting Shockwave and Pull for a little more biotic action.

 

 

There are other ways to level up and play the Vanguard, but that is just the most common. I recommend that build for first-time Vanguard players.

[Ticondurus]

Hey Red! Nice to see you here and thanks for the input.  As you can see I finished ME1 last night - onward to ME2! I have all the bonus abilities available as I've done all the DLC and beat ME2 a couple times in the past.

 

So between Stasis and Slam - for a first time Vanguard player in ME2 - AND on Hardcore first time, which would u suggest?  Also I assume Barrier has no use then?  And how would Stasis be utilized?  Just as an "oh ****" button or part of a larger strategy? ty  

[RedCaesar97]

So between Stasis and Slam - for a first time Vanguard player in ME2 - AND on Hardcore first time, which would u suggest?  Also I assume Barrier has no use then?  And how would Stasis be utilized?  Just as an "oh ****" button or part of a larger strategy? ty

 

The problem with Barrier is that it has a base 12-second cooldown. Vanguard with Assault Mastery evolved to Champion gains a -15% cooldown bonus. So without the Biotic Cooldown upgrade (an additional -20% cooldown), the Vanguard can get Barrier down to a 10.2-second cooldown. With the Biotic Cooldown upgrade + Champion, the Vanguard will have -35% cooldown bonus, enough to get Barrier cooldown to 7.8 seconds. So that means you have between 12 to 7.8 second cooldown for Barrier which is only really useful for restoring shields, which Charge will also do.

 

Charge has a base 6-second cooldown; it does not benefit from the Biotic Cooldown upgrade (this was tested back in the day). It does benefit from the Vanguard's cooldown bonus in Assault Mastery, so you can get up to -9% (Destroyer) or -15% (Champion) cooldown for Biotic Charge, so either 5.46 or 5.1-second cooldown for Charge.

 

The Vanguard -- unless you hang back and use other powers like Shockwave, Pull, Slam, or Reave a lot -- relies a lot on your unique skill Biotic Charge, so you do not want other powers interfering with Charge's cooldown. This is why Slam is considered a good power on the Vanguard since it's 3-second base cooldown does not interfere with Charge all that much. 

 

Charge will replenish your shields, up to 100% of base shields with the Heavy Barrier evolution. As a Vanguard, once you commit to a charge, you are generally left out in the open without cover unless you plan ahead, so after charging, you are looking to kill as fast as possible and looking for the next person to charge.

 

 

Barrier is probably the best of the bonus power shield skills (Barrier, Geth Shield Boost, and Fortification) since it does not require a casting animation, but it still takes a long time to cool down relative to your other powers. Geth Shield Boost benefits from the ability to get the Tech Cooldown upgrade before Horizon. Fortification gets no cooldown bonuses so it is terrible.

 

Plus, as you play at higher difficulties (Hardcore, and especially Insanity), Shepard's shields do not last very long so you may find yourself casting Barrier, and then having your shields drop back to 0 again shortly after and you are still stuck with a long cooldown. It is a nice emergency power in some situations where you need to get to cover, but the Vanguard rarely needs that option.

 

 

Stasis has a base 6-second cooldown, but is a fairly situational power. It is best used against large enemies like YMIR mechs and Scions. YMIR mechs especially can kill the Vanguard quickly so Stasis is really good for taking care of them. Plus Stasis is great a 1 point so you do not need to upgrade it fully. Stasis also has an exploit where enemies coming out of Stasis take a ton of extra damage.

 

Here are some videos by Kronner showing the Stasis bug:

Video 1.

Video 2.

Video 3:

 

Here is the explanation of the bug.

 

 

 

Generally as a Vanguard, you want to charge then shoot most enemies. I would save Stasis for YMIR mechs and Scions, and turrets.

Stasis has no effect on Praetorians, Harbinger, the Shadow Broker, or the Geth Colossus.

[This is the End My Friend]

Not that I'm much of an expert but beware of doorways. Charge will not let you phase through them.

[Ticondurus]

Thanks again Red and all - I decided to go with Slam - wish me luck.  A few threads felt that Reave didn't fit with a Vanguard well lore-wise and that was enough to me to change my mind against it.  I was torn between Slam and Stasis, but went with Slam.

 

P.S. Should I evolve Slam into Heavy or... ?

[UpUpAway95]

Thanks again Red and all - I decided to go with Slam - wish me luck.  A few threads felt that Reave didn't fit with a Vanguard well lore-wise and that was enough to me to change my mind against it.  I was torn between Slam and Stasis, but went with Slam.

 

P.S. Should I evolve Slam into Heavy or... ?

 

As Red has been saying, Slam is a 1 point wonder.  You don't really have to evolve it.  All heavy slam does really is increase the force the enemy hits the ground with, but what people generally do with slam is detonate it or use it on husks (which are dead the moment you get them off their feet, so the force they land with really doesn't matter).

[RedCaesar97]

Thanks again Red and all - I decided to go with Slam - wish me luck.  A few threads felt that Reave didn't fit with a Vanguard well lore-wise and that was enough to me to change my mind against it.  I was torn between Slam and Stasis, but went with Slam.

 

P.S. Should I evolve Slam into Heavy or... ?

 

You can leave it at 1 point (and put your remaining points elsewhere).

 

If you do choose to evolve it, I recommend Crippling Slam in case you miss a Warp bomb so the enemy stays on the ground for a little while. I know some people evolve it to Heavy Slam so the enemy stays in the air a bit longer so it is easier to Warp bomb.

[capn233]

Slam is probably the most fun bonus power, but Stasis is the most powerful.  I don't like any other bonus power on Vanguard, largely for reasons outlined by others above.

[Ticondurus]

ugh now I feel like I should have gotten Stasis.  May have to start over - AGAIN - cause I can't get blue eyes to work correctly on my Shep.  I was reading that it's hard to get Warp bombs to go off b/c Slam is so fast though...

 

And, are there more votes for Stasis over Slam? I don't care about the damage exploit/bug.  I'd rather work with vanilla tools that work as intended.

[UpUpAway95]

ugh now I feel like I should have gotten Stasis.  May have to start over - AGAIN - cause I can't get blue eyes to work correctly on my Shep.  I was reading that it's hard to get Warp bombs to go off b/c Slam is so fast though...

 

And, are there more votes for Stasis over Slam? I don't care about the damage exploit/bug.  I'd rather work with vanilla tools that work as intended.

 

They're both good and you can change your advanced training part way through at the terminal... so, I'd continue with Slam now, get a taste for how it's working for you; and then if you don't like Slam, try Stasis.  Personally, I like retraining a few times during the game just to mix things up a bit.

[Ticondurus]

Does Advanced Training = Bonus Talent from the beginning?  And, once again, if I go Slam or Stasis - do u really just need 1 point? I figured u could put 1 in, then max the more important ones, then go back to it possibly...

[UpUpAway95]

Does Advanced Training = Bonus Talent from the beginning?  And, once again, if I go Slam or Stasis - do u really just need 1 point? I figured u could put 1 in, then max the more important ones, then go back to it possibly...

 

Yes, advanced training allows you to re-select/change Shep's bonus talent.  It costs 5,000 Eezo, but that's it.  Retraining allows you to redistribute all his points.  It costs 2,500 Eezo.  If you do evolve a power and then decide you'd like to evolve it the other way, you can still do that by using the retraining.  You don't have to start the game over again.  Since you're doing an ME1 import, you'll easily have enough Eezo to do advanced training and/or retraining a couple of different times during the game.

 

Slam does work with just 1 point, so you can make use of the other points elsewhere.  You will not get enough points to max out everything of Shep's, so Slam is one talent that you don't have to max to make it work well enough.  Yes, you need to be really quick with the Warp to detonate it, but as long as you bunker Miranda or Thane in behind you, they will cast their Warp instantly without going through their animation.  That allows you to detonate even a quick 1-point Slam. 

 

As Red said, if you really want to evolve Slam, go ahead.  In that case, it's probably better to go with Crippling Slam than Heavy Slam.  If you miss the detonation, Crippling Slam will keep the enemy down a little longer so you can finish him off with your weapons.

 

Stasis also works well enough with just one point - knocking the enemy down for a little bit.  With stasis in ME2, the enemy will not take damage while they are in stasis... the trick is to wait to hit them when they are just out of stasis and getting back up... That's when you'll do double damage to them.  I don't think that's a bug.  Very occasionally, stasis will knock an enemy down and they just won't get back up, which is probably a bug, but it's actually pretty rare that it happens.  Stasis, however, will instakill husks for the same reason that slam does - it takes them off their feet.

 

My personal preference in insanity is to use Stasis, since it works on all types of enemies regardless of barriers, shields or armor.  I can't remember for sure with Shep, but I don't think slam works until the armor is stripped away.  In insanity, pretty much everything has armor. (ETA:  Just went into an old save and checked it out - Slam does not work on armored targets.  You do have to strip the armor away first.)

[Ticondurus]

Ok - I was wondering something else - can I use Pull and Warp as a combo? Then I don't need Slam to setup a combo.  And Stasis might be more useful.

 

I was also thinking of maybe Pull plus Charge - not sure what that does though.

[RedCaesar97]

Ok - I was wondering something else - can I use Pull and Warp as a combo? Then I don't need Slam to setup a combo.  And Stasis might be more useful.

 

I was also thinking of maybe Pull plus Charge - not sure what that does though.

 

You can use Pull + Warp (warp bomb) as a combo. On the Vanguard, it does require that you put points into Shockwave though; Shockwave has its uses but is generally considered a luckluster power on higher difficulties.

 

Pull + Charge is a physics combo; When enemies are affected by pull, they take more force and damage, so Charge will hit them harder meaning they will fly farther away. It is fun to do but generally not very useful otherwise.

 

 

If you are looking to use Pull with a Vanguard, then a good final build looks like this:

 

4 - Inferno Ammo

0 - Cryo Ammo

4 - Heavy Charge

4 - Improved Shockwave (improved radius)

4 - Pull Field

4 - Champion

1 - Stasis

 

That is personally my favorite Vanguard build since I can have some fun with biotics before charging in. But you get Shockwave and Pull kind of late since I prefer axing Charge, Assault Mastery, and Inferno Ammo first, although you could leave Incendiary Ammo at 1 point if you prefer using other biotic powers a lot instead of charging.

[Ticondurus]

Red I see - put is Pull Field bad with Charge?  Sounds like you are saying knocking an enemy away isn't useful - I guess since u need to be close for Shotgunning their face?

 

And, in that build you just posted, would Shockwave (improved) even be used if it's subpar on hcore+ difficulties?

[RedCaesar97]

Red I see - put is Pull Field bad with Charge?  Sounds like you are saying knocking an enemy away isn't useful - I guess since u need to be close for Shotgunning their face?

 

And, in that build you just posted, would Shockwave (improved) even be used if it's subpar on hcore+ difficulties?

 

Pull Field is great. Knocking an enemy away is fine (one less guy shooting at you is always good). But I think specifically pulling a guy just to charge him tends to be pointless unless you are trying to knock him off the map, which you can do.

 

Shockwave is subpar on higher difficulties, and is kind of a niche power especially since it has a 6-second base cooldown. But you can use it. You can pull enemies and then use Shockwave to send them flying. Or use Shockwave to knock guys down or stagger protected enemies. It is definitely not useless.

 

Not sure if I have any videos showing a Vanguard using Shockwave a lot.

[RedCaesar97]

Here, i just remember this: The Lazy Vanguard by thisisme8.

 

And here is one of mine: Vanguard rescuing Dr. Kenson (Arrival DLC). The video quality is kind of crap.

[Ticondurus]

Thanks Red! I realized something.  I'm so used to playing ranged (Biotic usually) and getting in close is a bit scary for me.  That's one reason why I'm having a bit of a harder time meshing with Charge and stuff.  But I hear it's really fun.  It's weird, this Sheperd seems so foreign to me at the moment.

 

Should I stick with Slam or go back and get Stasis instead?  (just got my ship) so it's not too late.

[RedCaesar97]

Slam is a good substitute for Pull until you get your own Pull. but you might be more comfortable with Stasis. I say stick with Slam for the time being. You can switch to Stasis after recruiting Mordin.

 

 

Don't forget, there are a lot of good Vanguard topics and videos in the List of Strategy Guides Found on the Forum compiled by Pacifen. (updated links here, and some additional links here.)

 

As I mentioned in another thread, here are some good videos for new Vanguard players to help you learn how to use Biotic Charge:

Charging 101 by ThatAverageGatsby.

Beginner's vanguard tutorial vol. 1 by sinosleep. (volume 1 of many; this is just the start)