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[Prince Enigmatic]

Apologies in advance if this is a topic that has already been discussed on here, I'm new to these forums, but this is something that has always interested me, since I've always liked Miranda's character and arc across Mass Effect 2 and 3. 

 

With that said, one thing I've pondered the most is just what was it about Cerberus that appealed to Miranda?

 

I have my own theories and thoughts, just interested to see what anyone else's might be.

 

I personally would like to think there was more to it than a means of escaping her father's poisonous influence.   

 

Thanks. 

[Taki17]

At first, she wanted protection from her father and Cerberus was the only organisation that could oppose him. Later on, she went on believing in the ideals of Cerberus, namely the betterment of mankind, plus she enjoyed the opportunity of having massive ammounts of resources, complete freedom in completing the missions and the best minds the galaxy can offer at her disposal.

 

So, basically, she feels she can do the best for humanity with Cerberus. She was genetically engineered to be a superhuman, but her father kept her locked up all the time, and she feels that with Cerberus, she can truly use her abilites for good - as she is a living example of what humans can achieve or what they can become.

[Prince Enigmatic]

I've also always wondered if Miranda ever knew about some of the shadier things Cerberus got up to during her time with them, like the experiments in ME1 and the whole Grayson affair.

[iM3GTR]

I've also always wondered if Miranda ever knew about some of the shadier things Cerberus got up to during her time with them, like the experiments in ME1 and the whole Grayson affair.

Shepard forgets all that too. He never mentions Akuze and Corporal Toombs even with the Sole Survivor background.

[capn233]

She knows about the husk and thorian creeper projects, and addresses that in dialogue with Shepard.  Was supposed to result in expendable shock troops.  Perhaps she wasn't aware of the full extent, namely that the subjects were just random colonists who did not volunteer.

[This is the End My Friend]

On top of what of others have said about the thrill of the challenge, and not being aware to the full extent of what Cerberus was up to. She had deep rooted insecurities on account of being treated as a thing by her father. Cerberus manipulated her into believing they appreciated her as an individual and not just for her skills. 

[Mberry]

I think that there is growing appreciation as to how evil the Illusive man is.  In his own way he is as evil as the Reapers.

[Prince Enigmatic]

I think that there is growing appreciation as to how evil the Illusive man is.  In his own way he is as evil as the Reapers.

 

I definitely see the Illusive Man as evil. 

 

With the Reapers, before it was revealed why they were doing what they did, I saw them as evil yes. But upon the revelations with the Mass Effect 3 ending and Leviathan DLC, I couldn't really see the Reapers as 'evil' anymore. What they were doing was, but it wasn't the same as how I first saw them in ME1. 

[wright1978]

She believes in the original goals of Cerberus, the advancement of humanity(absent the petty racism of some recruits) The salarians have the stg etc.
So while she knows it can make missteps she thinks those are acceptable for the greater good.
For someone like Miranda also a flexible well funded operation like Cerberus is vastly preferable to the clunky bureaucratic restrictive and somewhat ineffective alliance structure.
Clearly also Tim is a very charismatic leader.
By me3 Tim has gone off the rails, so Cerberus of me3 isn't anything recognisable to her.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Which is why I am glad that in ME3, after Miranda has left Cerberus and clearly opposes what they are now trying to accomplish, she still maintains her cool hostility towards the Alliance, albeit maintaining her loyalty to Shepard.

[abaris]

You get some additional hints when finishing Lair of the Shadowbroker by looking up the available information on the broker ship.

[wright1978]

Which is why I am glad that in ME3, after Miranda has left Cerberus and clearly opposes what they are now trying to accomplish, she still maintains her cool hostility towards the Alliance, albeit maintaining her loyalty to Shepard.

 

I just wish my Shep could have maintained some of that cool hostility too.

[Master Warder Z_]

She knows about the husk and thorian creeper projects, and addresses that in dialogue with Shepard.  Was supposed to result in expendable shock troops.  Perhaps she wasn't aware of the full extent, namely that the subjects were just random colonists who did not volunteer.

 

Maybe she just doesn't care about colonist x or colonist y.

 

I know I didn't.

[Master Warder Z_]

By me3 Tim has gone off the rails, so Cerberus of me3 isn't anything recognisable to her.

 

Thanks to nonsensical writing that basically ignores everything preceding it just to make enemy faction X a hostile entity in a game about a Reaper Invasion.

[straykat]

I think it's the same reason it drew people like Jack to be the killer she was or Zaeed the best bounty hunter in the Terminus. Survival. The determination to not be a victim. Miranda probably realized what kind of struggle humans had to go through to thrive and she teamed up with a group she thought would make it easier for them. And then she left for the right reasons, when she saw they turned on their own people.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I've also always wondered if Miranda ever knew about some of the shadier things Cerberus got up to during her time with them, like the experiments in ME1 and the whole Grayson affair.

 

I think it's clear she knows about some of the experiments. In the dialogue scene after her loyalty mission, Shepard can challenge her on the ME1 experiments, and she says (IIRC) that the husks were already dead, the Thorian creepers were mindless automatons, and the rachni experiments were abandoned once they realized their intelligence. She argues that they were trying to create shock troops to defend human colonies as opposed to building their own army.

 

There's still some ambiguity regarding what she means when she says the rachni were "abandoned." They did end up with the hostile rachni workers attacking people on Noveria and on a couple of Alliance outposts, and it seemed as if Cerberus was at least initially involved in both situations, so even if they didn't want their rachni subjects to attack other sapient beings, they at least failed to prevent that from happening.

 

Whether Miranda knows all the details about the rachni or about Grayson or the assassination of Admiral Kahoku isn't as clear. Her comment about the rachni implies that she disapproves of experimenting on sapient beings, so if she *isn't* deliberately deceiving Shepard, then I'd guess she doesn't know the whole story re: rachni attacks, Grayson, and Kahoku. I'm inclined to believe her given that her attitude towards Shepard is changing by that point, but I wouldn't say it's 100% certain.

[Master Warder Z_]

They did end up with the hostile rachni workers attacking people on Noveria 

 

Cerberus isn't involved in that.

 

That was BH's blunder.

 

 

and the rachni experiments were abandoned once they realized their intelligence.

 

Not out of any moral quandary on the issue, merely due to risk. After all a entire portion of a cell was killed by the project, which I guess you could argue proves effectiveness, but given that most of the specimens and what have you die later on anyway, there would be no way to recover the project unless if you went back to the original samples and cloned more. 

[StarcloudSWG]

And Binary Helix has a double nested hexagon for a corporate logo.

 

There's more than a few hints that Binary Helix, Exogeni, and Cerberus were actively involved with each other.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Cerberus isn't involved in that.

 

That was BH's blunder.

 

I thought I found a terminal message having to do with Cerberus somewhere in the Binary Helix facility and that the implication was that Cerberus might have been involved in BH getting hold of rachni specimens. There are definitely rachni in one of the labs on Kahoku's mission, and Cerberus seems to be responsible for the attack on that Alliance outpost that unlocks after Noveria. 

 

Cerberus may not have been directly involved in what happened at Binary Helix, but it seems more likely that they were at least peripherally involved than that they and Binary Helix both managed to acquire rachni specimens at the same time by coincidence.

 

 

 

Not out of any moral quandary on the issue, merely due to risk. After all a entire portion of a cell was killed by the project, which I guess you could argue proves effectiveness, but given that most of the specimens and what have you die later on anyway, there would be no way to recover the project unless if you went back to the original samples and cloned more. 

 

You may be right, but I'm curious if there's anything that makes it clear one way or another. I thought it was left ambiguous as to whether Miranda thought the rachni experiments were morally wrong or just too dangerous. She does seem to have mixed feelings about all the artificial "upgrades" that she and Oriana received - she doesn't hesitate to use her abilities, but she views her father as an egomaniac and later apologizes for considering subjecting Shepard to mind control. So I could see where she might object to experimentation on sapient beings out of both principle and pragmatism.

[Master Warder Z_]

I thought I found a terminal message having to do with Cerberus somewhere in the Binary Helix

 

 

Han Olar spells out how BH found the drifting ship, Cerberus later bought samples off of them after the discovery.

 

 

You may be right, but I'm curious if there's anything that makes it clear one way or another.

 

Yes.

 

"Shepard, having this incapacitated volus running around our battlefield could compromise us!"

 

The Samara recruitment mission, she straight up stresses the 'race' of the Biotic God in question. It's one line but it provides a infinitely more deeper look into that sort of personality she has, she believes in what Cerberus stands for, she acknowledges that right after the first prologue mission. She's humanity first, and has no qualms when it comes to ethics to begin with, starting off she will kill a old friend for a act of betrayal, she will sabotage what appears on the surface as a renewed Batarian reintegration with the greater galaxy, before the terror plot even comes into play.Basically if you look at her history, what she believes, what she says...it comes across as pretty clear she's a hardliner in Cerberus for good reason, she's the Illusive Man's top agent for a reason.

 

She will do whatever is asked of her with little to no reservation as long as her own personal needs are met, and has no real qualms.

 

So yeah, I think she pretty much writes off any Cerberus attempt at harness the Rachni to their aims because of pragmatism, or at least that's how she would view the situation.

[Sifr]

Thanks to nonsensical writing that basically ignores everything preceding it just to make enemy faction X a hostile entity in a game about a Reaper Invasion.

 

Nah, the direction that Cerberus took in ME3 was consistent, we saw enough in ME1 and ME2 that showed they were extremely shady and prone to mad science, plus once they all got themselves indoctrinated, it's not surprising they ended up being stupid/chaotic evil.

 

Of course, I have to concede that it was a bit of stupid writing move to have the Illusive Man decide to just keep the Reaper corpse laying around in his HQ where everyone and their mums could get indoctrinated. The only thing that would make it somewhat in-character is that TIM has always been extremely over-confident and convinced he's smarter than everyone else, so he does have the level of hubris to believe that he was smart enough to figure a way to keep something like that in close proximity to himself and remain safe.

 

Maybe the real reason that Cerberus experiments usually end up blowing up royally in everyone's faces is because everyone in Cerberus is stricken with overwhelming arrogance that they cannot fail, despite all the evidence to the contrary?

[Master Warder Z_]

Nah, the direction that Cerberus took in ME3 was consistent

Read Retribution and replay ME2.

[Sifr]

Read Retribution and replay ME2.

 

Exactly what do they do in the novel that doesn't qualify as evil or mad science, based on the plot synopsis I read, the stuff they do seems pretty par for the course when it comes to them?

[Master Warder Z_]

Exactly what do they do in the novel that doesn't qualify as evil or mad science, based on the plot synopsis I read, the stuff they do seems pretty par for the course when it comes to them?

TIM deliberately stresses a continuation of his relationship with Shepard.

Which directly contradicts his attitude on Mars...it falls apart inside the first hour.

Want me to go on?

[Sifr]

TIM deliberately stresses a continuation of his relationship with Shepard.

Which directly contradicts his attitude on Mars...it falls apart inside the first hour.

Want me to go on?

 

Except that by the point of Mars, TIM was indoctrinated and had turned his mooks into pseudo-husks.

 

That TIM suddenly put the kibosh on working with Shepard isn't that surprising if the Reapers are influencing him, since the last time those two worked together, the Collectors were forced to leave Horizon before everyone could be taken, they obtained a Reaper IFF to let them pass through the otherwise impassable Omega-4 relay, leading to the proto-Reaper being destroyed and the Collector base along with it.

 

Suffice to say, you can see why the Reapers might want to compel TIM to terminate any alliance with Shepard. Allowing those two to continue working together would not be in the Reapers best interests for an expedient harvest without any complications. TIM's funding, knowledge of their tech and Shepard's talent for survival and generally being a "nuisance" as Harbinger puts it, already proved to be a dangerous combination in ME2.