44 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

I'm curious to know if they are different from the Qunari in this aspect.

Are their roles assigned or chosen? And could said roles be changed, as in the clan's craftsman waking up one day like "You know what? I'm tired of making bows. Halla herding is my true calling!"

[ladyiolanthe]

I think any answer to this is going to be speculative, because BioWare hasn't made that clear - with the obvious exception of mages, that is. Mages are pretty clearly assigned to be the Keeper or the First (the Keeper's apprentice). If there are more than two mages in the clan, they tend to get traded to other clans who don't have two mages. This is as much to deflect Templar attention as to 'share the wealth,' so to speak.

 

Because Dalish clan cultures vary widely, it's possible that some clans assign all roles, like the Qun, while others allow individuals to chose their path. But I suspect that the Keeper, with advice perhaps from the other clan leaders (hahren, warleader, hearthmistress, and crafter) might gently nudge young elves into certain roles that play on their strengths in pretty much all clans. If you've got a limited pool of human elven resources, then you'd best make the most of the skills and talents they have, don't you think?

[Tidus]

From what I've gathered in DA:I the Elves rank and file is hunters, fishermen, guards and general laborers around camp mending tents and maintaining the wagons. Rank is Keeper,First and second and several lieutenants like Mithra in DA:O.. Also the Halla keeper is low on the totem pole. This comes to light if you speak to the Halla keeper at the Dalish camp in the Brecilian Forrest in DA:O.

[Cee]

Also, given that Dalish clans are essentially their own independent micro civilizations, with distinct characteristics, ways of life, varying degrees of interaction with the outside world, as well as varying in size by possibly large numbers, there's a whole lot of room for headcanon and for thinking clans different from one another in many regards.

[Tidus]

Cee,The majority of the clans would rather avoid any conflicts with humans in fear of having a King or Arl to send a army after them..After the incident with the Shems in DA:O Keeper  Marethari decides it best to move camp regardless if you killed them or let them go.. If you ask her she will tell you the reason the Darkspawn and to avoid any future conflict with the shems. The clans meet every ten years to exchange what they have learned about Elven history.

 

Also some friendly Arls allow the Dalish to stay and hunt on their lands.

[Gervaise]

It seems to be left pretty vague and clans are said to vary one from another concerning the specifics of how they conduct themselves.   In Masked Empire the clan has elders who are the leaders of specific roles, such as Hearthkeeper, Warleader, etc.   Each leader seemed to have apprentices under them.  This would suggest that each role has a hierarchy of apprentices, just like the Keeper, with the leader selecting who they see as their chief successor.

 

The title warleader does seem a bit strange since the Dalish rarely go to war.   I preferred to give the clan of my Inquisitor roles such as Guardians, if they are specifically engaged in protecting the clan rather than hunting.   However, I imagine that whilst people might specialise in something they are particularly good at as their main role in the clan, they are actually more flexible than that and can swap between tasks as needed.    So every hunter is capable of preparing and cooking their catch, every hearthkeeper is capable of defending themselves from danger, every guardian is also able to forage for berries and herbs.  Older clan members that are not as agile as they once were probably stay closer to camp and watch over the children, even if previously they might have been chief hunter.   May be the chief hearth keeper was originally a hunter who is now forced by their reduced mobility to stay closer to camp.    The hearth mistress in Masked Empire is said to be ancient.

 

In DAO that young hunter had to prove he was capable of catching something on his own before he was recognised as a proper hunter.   If people are given specific roles in the clan and he was failing at being a hunter, you'd think they would simply have suggested he tried something else that he was better suited to in the hope of excelling at that.    It is possible the girl was only willing to consider him as a potential mate if he was a hunter but then that suggests you can opt for a role even if you aren't particularly good at it and he chose to be a hunter regardless of his ability.    More likely is that everyone has to show proficiency in a broad spectrum of roles within the clan and has to achieve a certain level of ability within it so the clan is capable of surviving even if certain key members are killed.

[Tidus]

Gervaise,IIRC a hunter is high on the list and has been highly trained with bow and arrow and to complete his training the hunter must kill a animal and by doing so,he becomes a hunter and adult. The same applies to a female hunter after completing her training.

 

Oddly all of the clan members are train for combat but,not all are train for hunting. It took some research to find information on the Dalish..

 

In lore the Dalish would be known as wood Elves and much like the Dalish the wood Elves are nomads.

[Qun00]

It seems to be left pretty vague and clans are said to vary one from another concerning the specifics of how they conduct themselves. In Masked Empire the clan has elders who are the leaders of specific roles, such as Hearthkeeper, Warleader, etc. Each leader seemed to have apprentices under them. This would suggest that each role has a hierarchy of apprentices, just like the Keeper, with the leader selecting who they see as their chief successor.

The title warleader does seem a bit strange since the Dalish rarely go to war. I preferred to give the clan of my Inquisitor roles such as Guardians, if they are specifically engaged in protecting the clan rather than hunting. However, I imagine that whilst people might specialise in something they are particularly good at as their main role in the clan, they are actually more flexible than that and can swap between tasks as needed. So every hunter is capable of preparing and cooking their catch, every hearthkeeper is capable of defending themselves from danger, every guardian is also able to forage for berries and herbs. Older clan members that are not as agile as they once were probably stay closer to camp and watch over the children, even if previously they might have been chief hunter. May be the chief hearth keeper was originally a hunter who is now forced by their reduced mobility to stay closer to camp. The hearth mistress in Masked Empire is said to be ancient.

In DAO that young hunter had to prove he was capable of catching something on his own before he was recognised as a proper hunter. If people are given specific roles in the clan and he was failing at being a hunter, you'd think they would simply have suggested he tried something else that he was better suited to in the hope of excelling at that. It is possible the girl was only willing to consider him as a potential mate if he was a hunter but then that suggests you can opt for a role even if you aren't particularly good at it and he chose to be a hunter regardless of his ability. More likely is that everyone has to show proficiency in a broad spectrum of roles within the clan and has to achieve a certain level of ability within it so the clan is capable of surviving even if certain key members are killed.

I can see how one's role can change when forced by need and circumstances, but could it be done from nothing but desire?

Like a healer that wants to be a full time hunter.

[Gervaise]

Temperamentally a person might be better suited to a particular role.   I imagine that people take vallaslin according to the god that best suits their role in the clan.   However, I still think you would be trained in several skills and then may be focus on the one you seem best at.    If you were particularly good at healing you might specialise in mixing potions and looking for special plants to assist with healing but I would think that most members of the clan would be encouraged to learn a bit of first aid.    In fact, of course, most specialist healers are going to be the mages in the clan because magical healing is so much quicker and simpler.

 

It actually does make sense that everyone would be trained in combat skills, so they could defend themselves if the clan is attacked, but not everyone would be trained as a hunter because they just don't have the eye for it.   I feel that the scout/tracker/hunter would be one of the most specialised roles.   Those not really having the natural skills of a hunter, might train as camp guardian but also if reasonably good with their hands, might be trained in crafting skills.   Whilst the hunter could skin and prepare the kill for themselves, I would imagine this would be left to other members of the clan, thus freeing up the hunter to simply concentrate on bringing in the kill.    Preparing the hides so they are suitable for making into clothes would be another important role.   In fact I would think there would be sufficient tasks that need doing on a daily basis that everyone can find something that they are proficient at and enjoyment comes from doing it well and knowing you are making an active contribution to the welfare of the clan.

 

Unlike the Qun, I think the individual would have a degree of choice over what they do but if they are really trying to do something they are hopeless at, then their elders would say no.   I mean if the person wants to look after the Halla but they keep upsetting them, then the head Halla keeper is going to have to put their foot down and suggest they try something else.    If the apprentice hunter keeps scaring the game and spoiling the hunt, the chief hunter is going to have to stop them going out with them or the clan will starve.

[Eliastion]

Lacking evidence to the contrary, I'd expect Dalish to refrain from setting strict rules - most likely every profession would be available but one still needs to have a teacher. Seeing how despite strong communal bonds they do have a traditional model, being a child of, say, hunters would be a strong advantage if you wanted the same career. Getting proper training elsewhere would require the teacher to be convinced one way or another - a measure of talent would be indispensable but not necessarily door-opening on its own unless the talent was both great and recognized.

 

Another thing is the question of significance of birth in social structure. In their lore Dalish believe to be linked to noble houses of the Dales and tend to care a lot about the past. This is likely to result in some semblence of lineage-based social structure within at least some of the bigger clans. How much would such status weight on potential life choices is hard to tell - the clans, after all, are mostly concerned about their own survival and each clan's Keeper holds great power over the clan meaning that the extent of potential power of clan "nobles" remains unclear - it IS however quite possible that the best/oldes families of the clan would form some sort of council, it's not quite clear of what clan "elders" means: in some clans it could be the eldest elves, in other: heads of their respective professions in others yet - heads of distinguished families (and none of these actually excludes the others, especially when we consider that esteemed professions tend to rely on schooling from young age and, therefore, be a family trade passed from parent to either oldest or most talented child).

 

Lastly, there are, of course, mages. We encountered varying approaches to mage children. What we know is that children tend to be sent to clans that lack a proper First candidate but we also hear about multiple candidates for the post of the First. We've seen elves willing to take in an extra elven mage (or even adopt a human elf-blooded child with magical powers) AND heard of a child that was supposedly abandoned by her clan at age 7 because of being a surplus mage...

This, along with the fact that Halla Keeper in Zethrian's clan was a mage leads to obvious conclusions that, depending on clan, you can have,other than Keepers and Firsts:

1. Elves with at least basic mage training needed to not hurt anyone - ones that didn't get to be a First for various reasons but were trained in use of magic nonetheless. These people, despite being mages, function in the clan in the same way any other elf would - whether they're allowed to actually use magic outside of emergency (or even in one) might be further up to Keeper's and/or clan elders to decide.

2. Elven mages that ended up in the clan despite being born elsewhere - once again, the extent to which they're allowed to actually use their magic might vary.

3. Nobody, because the clan either traded out or simply abandoned every additional mage somewhere along the way.

Obviously, there is no such thing as an untrained mage - dragging someone like that with you would endanger the whole clan on regular basis, so at least the "ignore the fact that they're talented in magic" can probably be safely omitted as potential scenario.

[In Exile]

As far as I can tell, the only role that actually has a precondition appears to be Keeper - where one must be a mage. Otherwise, it seems there's nothing to really hold the Dalish back from what they can grow up to be apart from their aptitude, though one might expect some clans differ. 

[Vit246]

Did the Dalish Kingdom have clans back then or did this habit form after the fall? Now that I think about it, I have so many questions about the old Kingdom of the Dales.

[Tidus]

Vit246,The clans came after the fall of the Dales since  shattered groups is harder to find then a large body and they was still being hunted by humes after the fall.  A  clan is around 200-250 souls or so I've read.  Also a Keeper may be a descendent of Elvan nobility that ruled the Dales. 

 

The Dalish isn't a haughty people they simply want to keep their history and their Gods alive and hope they will  have a permanent home some day. They welcome any CE that flees the Alienage.

 

Also the Dalish isn't a blood thirsty people like Duncan made them to be in his opening  speech about the Dalish.It's true they have no use for shemlins they would rather avoid any hostile contact for the reasons I stated in another reply. They also openly trade with humes in small villages.

[jlb524]

Dalish are likely flexible in filling roles as the clan needs. For example, if a bunch of hunters get mauled and killed by a gang of bears, some crafters may now need to pick up a bow and learn how to hunt. It seems like most Dalish put the needs of the clan over their own. Mages would be the exception as they get put on the Keeper path from an early age.

[Sifr]

I always got the impression that the Dalish operate on an apprentice system, assigning people who show talent to various mentors to ensure that the vital skills needed for the clan are passed down from one generation to the next.

 

For instance, Varathorn seems to be still training up his apprentice in Origins when we meet him, as we catch the tail end of their conversation where he's berating him for screwing up some crafting that he was doing.

[Eliastion]

Did the Dalish Kingdom have clans back then or did this habit form after the fall? Now that I think about it, I have so many questions about the old Kingdom of the Dales.

 

Vit246,The clans came after the fall of the Dales since  shattered groups is harder to find then a large body and they was still being hunted by humes after the fall.  A  clan is around 200-250 souls or so I've read.  Also a Keeper may be a descendent of Elvan nobility that ruled the Dales. 

(...)

Ok, let's clear that up. First of all, the role of the Keeper is not heraditary. Some other positions of leadership in the clan might be but not the Keeper.

Now, continuing the problem of clans and noble birth: clans as we know them did not exist. What Dalish lore tells us, however, is that modern Dalish consider themselves descendant of old noble houses and that is likely what started the original clans - a noble family plus its soldiers plus some additional retinue.

What's more - we can safely assume the Dalish were mostly NOT just random refugees. They probably took some in but they were organized from the get-go. The timeline is messed up but we hear about the Dalish actually gathering up and crushing Avvars while (or shortly after) fleeing Dales. To do that they coulan't just be "shattered groups hunted by humans" - they were in no small part remnants of Dalish nobility and army (in no small part these two were probably one and the same) retreating and in force. This explains both strong military tradition among the Dalish and their claims of nobility. Oh, and as for their being hunted - just running AWAY from the enemy through the Frostback Mountains brought them out of the reach of Orlais and its Chantry - Ferelden did neither really exist nor recognize the authority of the Divine.

Oh, and Dalish tend to actually be haughty as hell. And the clans seem to be much more varied in number - starting from just a couple dozen and going well into hundreds.

 

Now another thing is "were the post-Dales Dalish the first nomadic elven clans" and there I don't know that. The lore never mentions them but the concept of Tevinter with all its power is unlikely to actually acheive much better results than Orlais and Chantry in the big, wild Thedas - it is, in fact, quite likely that "wood elves" were actually around before Dales - and some of their ways could've been the inspiration for what modern Dalish have become.

[Tidus]

Eliastion, From my research some Keepers can be descendants of Elvan nobles that rule the Dales even Lanaya mentions that.

 

When the Dalish fled the Dales they did so in small clans to avoid detection.

 

Did you know the Dwarfs helped the Dalish by giving them shelter? This knowledge can be gain by playing "Witch Hunt".

 

It takes time but,there is a lot of information on the Dalish.

 

BTW..Wood Elves is found in D&D and other RPGs and bares a striking resemblance to DA's Dalish.

[Gervaise]

The dwarves described in Witch Hunt weren't helping the Dalish, they were helping the elves fleeing the destruction of Arlathan by Tevinter.  Kal-Sharok then attacked the Thaig that took them in because they were afraid that helping the elves might jeopardise relations with Tevinter.   Mind you I think that is a bit of a daft reason since the dwarves had monopoly on the lyrium trade so Tevinter were never going to break off relations with them.

 

The clan in Masked Empire was only meant to number around 50 in total, which makes sense if the clan wants to avoid detection; it is really just an extended family unit.   I can see a clan possibly being as large as 100 but 200-250 seems much too big; where did you get these figures from?

 

From what we are told both in that mini game and by Leliana, there are reports of strange elves in the Tirashan, who quite possibly worship the Forgotten Ones.   There was meant to have been a sect of these worshippers in the Dales, so it is unclear whether these are simply refugees that ran the other way on the fall of the Dales or if they are a group of elves that evolved independently from the time of the ancients; it is very likely the latter.    The Tirashan would appear to be just the sort of remote, inhospitable place where a large number of elves could have survived largely unnoticed down to the present day.

 

The Dalish are similar to Wood Elves in D&D but on the whole the latter did live in settled communities, not as nomadic tribes.    The Dalish were based on a combination of European gypsies and native American tribal culture, both of which are nomadic.

[ladyiolanthe]

The Dalish were based on a combination of European gypsies and native American tribal culture, both of which are nomadic.

 

(Off topic, but I felt it needs to be addressed: Not all indigenous people of North America were nomadic. One example of settled indigenous tribes is the Iroquois Confederacy, whose people lived in palisaded communities of longhouses surrounded by farmland for years, for example, before moving elsewhere once soils were depleted by their crops. Further south were all the different cultures who lived (and in many cases still live) in Pueblos; these cultures also had an economy based on farming. Out west many of the coastal peoples also lived settled in communities, as their descendants continue to do today.)

[Heimdall]

(Off topic, but I felt it needs to be addressed: Not all indigenous people of North America were nomadic. One example of settled indigenous tribes is the Iroquois Confederacy, whose people lived in palisaded communities of longhouses surrounded by farmland for years, for example, before moving elsewhere once soils were depleted by their crops. Further south were all the different cultures who lived (and in many cases still live) in Pueblos; these cultures also had an economy based on farming. Out west many of the coastal peoples also lived settled in communities, as their descendants continue to do today.)

The Native American culture connection is a tenuous comparison to start with. There's little in their culture that invokes anything more than the vaguest of comparisons and their actual religion reflects a more Greco-Roman understanding of deities than anything else.

[Eliastion]

Eliastion, From my research some Keepers can be descendants of Elvan nobles that rule the Dales even Lanaya mentions that.

 

When the Dalish fled the Dales they did so in small clans to avoid detection.(...)

I'm pretty sure all Lanaya mentions is that she - being born a city elf - had it harder to be accepted as First candidate. Yet she DID become the First, WAS accepted as one and I really don't remember any mention of heraditary Keeper position whatsoever.

 

What I do remember are mentions of Dalish in general tracing their ancestry to nobility of the Dales.

 

As for fleeing in small groups - once more. They proceeded to defeat the Avvar which are hardly a pushover. And they fled into lands that Orlais and its Chantry did not have under their control. Elves were not a one big group marching out but nevertheless they were in contact and coordinated enough to actually make their way by force rather than just hide away from indigenous people of the land they fled into.

 

 

The clan in Masked Empire was only meant to number around 50 in total, which makes sense if the clan wants to avoid detection; it is really just an extended family unit.   I can see a clan possibly being as large as 100 but 200-250 seems much too big; where did you get these figures from?

It's not me you asked but I can give you my sources and my reasoning. The "from couple dozen to a couple hundred" figure comes from DA RPG system.

As for reasoning - how often do we expect Dalish to have a magic gift? We know that Lanaya had some competition - a couple other would-be Firsts. We also know that the Halla Keeper in her clan is a mage. Let's assume that they have around 7 mages in the clan (young children that just showed their talent included). Also, we know that even small clans tend to have 2 mages by siphoning talents from "luckier" ones so we can safely assume that big clans have significantly less mages than the small ones per capita.

Now, how often do we expect Dalish to be born with magical gift? Let's be very generous and assume about 1/50 - much bigger figure than any other society in Thedas. Small clans will have 2 mages (on average) thanks to getting them from elsewhere, meaning that we can expect larger clans to have significantly less mages, but with Zathrian being the epitome of keeperness, plus their willingness to take in mage refugees, let's assume they didn't drop below that 1/50. With 7 mages it means around 350 people in the clan - with all these cautious estimates we made. If we assumed (as would in my opinion be more sensible) that the actual ratio of mages to total population in a big clan is closer to 1/100, we would end up with well over half thousand elves in Zathrian's clan.

 

Of course, this particular clan is likely very big for Dalish standards,  it's led by a famous Keeper too. Still, in my opinion the Dalish seem to generally be more numerous than people give them credit for. After all, they supposedly managed to - on short notice and in lands fled by most clans in fear of Darkspawn - scrape together an expeditionary force comparable to Orzammar despite the fact that they most certainly couldn't spare all that much (because, you see, the people going fighting are the same people that tend to do tasks like gathering food back in the clans)...

[Gervaise]

On the native American statement, that was based off the Wiki and what one of the Devs said about it.   Really they could be based off any nomadic culture.   However, I did see shades of the Romani in them and the gypsies have very ancient roots, going back to northern India, so even if modern gypsies are generally Christian, further back in time they probably were polytheistic. 

 

As for the numbers thing, I base that less off what is seen in game and more on logic.   Not only would smaller clans attract less attention from hostile neighbours but they would also find it easier to feed themselves from the game in a particular area.   I think it is very dodgy basing over all numbers off mage numbers but the fact is that Zathrian's clan was probably unusual in having enough mages that they actually had to compete for the position of First, although whilst Lanaya's words seem to imply competing with more than one other person, it may not necessarily have been the case.     The problem currently is that we have a contradiction about mages, in that previously we were told that mages are valued because they are closest to being what their ancestors were, to the situation in DAI were clans are getting rid of any mages over the quota of 3.  So you can't really state categorically how many mages are being produced in clans naturally, since the rule of 3 may come about because they had less and took one more, they gave one away, or they took one in as a city elf refugee.    The clan in Masked Empire appeared to have two mages, the Keeper and his First, who seemed to have been born there, so immediately you have a ratio of 2:50 or 1:25. 

 

On a side note, I wonder do clans in a particular region stay in touch in between Arlathavens?    Do all clan members go to the gathering of the clans or just a select few?   Presumably they must set and time and place at the end of the previous one.    How do they get there?   Halla don't travel well over water but Thedas is a big place.  To travel all the way round the Freemarches, through northern Orlais, through southern Orlais  and on to Ferelden for a gathering there would take a very long time and expose the clan to great risk.    Even so, I always thought it odd that the Sabrae clan were willing to risk trusting humans and travelling on boats across the Waking Sea, not to mention where they got the money from to pay for passage.

 

I have no idea how the numbers worked out for the Dalish assisting the Warden in Origins.    This is why I wondered if there was some way of staying in touch between clans at least occupying a general area, such as in Ferelden.     Zathrian's clan had been badly affected by the curse before the Warden arrived, so it hardly seems likely that numbers were drawn solely from them even if the clan was as large as 200-250.   Still, the Warden was pretty desperate for any help, so may be even 100 expert archers would have been considered useful.    However, the words of the Dalish in the camp seemed to imply an army of Dalish, so may be they did have a way of contacting other clans quickly if necessary.

 

Incidentally, I get the feeling that the writers may have revised things a bit since Origins regarding the Dalish, so may be back then clans were implied to be larger but this has been amended since.     It was implied in Masked Empire that the clan there was fairly typical in size at least in that part of the world and apparently there are only a handful of clans in the Dales, so I took from that the total population of Dalish in southern Orlais is probably not more than 300-400.     Clans in other regions may be bigger but, apart from possibly Ferelden, it seems unlikely that they would be numerically more clans in other parts of Thedas, particularly the more northwards you go.

[Eliastion]

On the native American statement, that was based off the Wiki and what one of the Devs said about it.   Really they could be based off any nomadic culture.   However, I did see shades of the Romani in them and the gypsies have very ancient roots, going back to northern India, so even if modern gypsies are generally Christian, further back in time they probably were polytheistic. 

 

As for the numbers thing, I base that less off what is seen in game and more on logic.   Not only would smaller clans attract less attention from hostile neighbours but they would also find it easier to feed themselves from the game in a particular area.   I think it is very dodgy basing over all numbers off mage numbers but the fact is that Zathrian's clan was probably unusual in having enough mages that they actually had to compete for the position of First, although whilst Lanaya's words seem to imply competing with more than one other person, it may not necessarily have been the case.     The problem currently is that we have a contradiction about mages, in that previously we were told that mages are valued because they are closest to being what their ancestors were, to the situation in DAI were clans are getting rid of any mages over the quota of 3.  So you can't really state categorically how many mages are being produced in clans naturally, since the rule of 3 may come about because they had less and took one more, they gave one away, or they took one in as a city elf refugee.    The clan in Masked Empire appeared to have two mages, the Keeper and his First, who seemed to have been born there, so immediately you have a ratio of 2:50 or 1:25. 

 

On a side note, I wonder do clans in a particular region stay in touch in between Arlathavens?    Do all clan members go to the gathering of the clans or just a select few?   Presumably they must set and time and place at the end of the previous one.    How do they get there?   Halla don't travel well over water but Thedas is a big place.  To travel all the way round the Freemarches, through northern Orlais, through southern Orlais  and on to Ferelden for a gathering there would take a very long time and expose the clan to great risk.    Even so, I always thought it odd that the Sabrae clan were willing to risk trusting humans and travelling on boats across the Waking Sea, not to mention where they got the money from to pay for passage.

 

I have no idea how the numbers worked out for the Dalish assisting the Warden in Origins.    This is why I wondered if there was some way of staying in touch between clans at least occupying a general area, such as in Ferelden.     Zathrian's clan had been badly affected by the curse before the Warden arrived, so it hardly seems likely that numbers were drawn solely from them even if the clan was as large as 200-250.   Still, the Warden was pretty desperate for any help, so may be even 100 expert archers would have been considered useful.    However, the words of the Dalish in the camp seemed to imply an army of Dalish, so may be they did have a way of contacting other clans quickly if necessary.

 

Incidentally, I get the feeling that the writers may have revised things a bit since Origins regarding the Dalish, so may be back then clans were implied to be larger but this has been amended since.     It was implied in Masked Empire that the clan there was fairly typical in size at least in that part of the world and apparently there are only a handful of clans in the Dales, so I took from that the total population of Dalish in southern Orlais is probably not more than 300-400.     Clans in other regions may be bigger but, apart from possibly Ferelden, it seems unlikely that they would be numerically more clans in other parts of Thedas, particularly the more northwards you go.

If you want to talk about "dodgy" then the actual problem is Arlathvhen.

Basically, the whole idea, as presented, is completely impossible to pull off. The game lore suggests that the clans as a whole actually meet but that's insane. There are many clans scattered across Thedas. If MOST clans sent REPRESENTATIVES than a meeting would be possible. If the clans were actually to meet then even by the lowest estimates you'd end up with literally hundreds of thousands of elves meeting in secret - it's logistically impossible feat. They'd need a way to feed themselves, they'd have to do it somewhat secretly... I'm willing to accept that Dalish circumvent many logistical problems with magic but there are some limits to  that.

 

As for Zathrian's clan - it's canon that they were actually contacting other clans, it was mentioned in-game. Also it would be completely ridiculous to assume that a single clan, no matter how great, could spare a goddamned army. Dalish probably have AMAZING capability for mobilization, I could accept their ability to mobilize around 90% of their adult population as effective combatants when needed. But that's only when defending the clan - because the same people are indispensable for things like gathering food, protection from immediate threats etc. I find it hard to believe they could realistically spare more than 20% adults without pretty much committing a strange kind of suicide in the process. But let's up it and say: 50%. Every second adult goes to fight, man or woman. Even then for a measly 500 warriors you need to draw from ADULT population of a thousand, when you add children...

And the 500 figure is VERY conservative when we think of a force that actually was considered anything more than just a token contingent in the scale of a battle where 70 thousand big city fought for its very existence. So it was probably significantly more than just half a thousand warriors... Seriously, military potential of Dalish that managed to mobilize an army like that in a few months is scary. Of course, much of it can be attributed to fantasy writers' lack of sense of scale  

 

Still, your estimations of number of Dalish in Orlais are a couple orders of magnitude off. We're talking HUGE areas, most of them scarcely populated. And yet Dalish presence is felt. The number you give is more likely closer to the number of CLANS in the general area of Orlais than to the number of Dalish in Southern Orlais  

Oh, and I'm not sure why you assume that there would be less Dalish in the north? They're pretty mobile and there's little reason not to scatter all over the place. And in Thedas "fringes of civilisation" where a clan can move unhindered and mostly undetected can really be found pretty much everywhere...

 

PS: As for getting rid of mages, we have one second-hand account of that happening like that. Of course, all our evidence is circunstantial, but in this case it stinks of "well, the Dalish model doesn't work all that well" they tried to give us to make the conflict around mage rebellion seem more universal and not just human- or chantry-specific. But the practice just didn't fit anything we heard or witnessed before. Add to that the fact that Dalish Inquisitor was horrified by the idea of abandoning a child like that (though he/she did seem to agree wiith the rule of three) and  I think it's reasonable to assume that this was a strange clan or that there was more to the story than was told - and there was some reasons for abandonment other than magical talent. Not necessarily a morally acceptable reason, mind you, the girl could've been a heir to some marginalized family, for example, and having a mage child was considered a threat by people actively ruling the clan - power struggles can be REALLY nasty business, after all. 

Either way, the story of abandoning a mage child seems contrary to everything we heard of Dalish before - that said, however, our sources are really limited. Dalish clans are so vastly different that pretty much any statement starting with "some clans" is true, making any extrapolation difficult. Canonically some clans are little more than brigands, after all. And there's really no way to know which clans are the "more normal ones" when we only encountered and heard about just a couple of them. This incidentally gives the devs lots of room for retcons on the ground "oh, well, these were just some exceptions, you know".

Maybe we'll get more data in the future.

[Gervaise]

Actually I think a lot of stuff isn't that carefully thought through by the writers.    That figure I was quoting about clans in Orlais came from the novel.   In it Celene suddenly realises that all these years Gaspard (and herself probably) have been worrying about the possibility of a potentially huge Dalish force ready to mobilise and the reality is vastly different.   Which is why I say that there has been a bit of revisionism since  DAO.  

 

I worked out that having an Arlathaven with all clans in attendance would be a logistical nightmare, which is why I suggested that probably clans just send representatives and the rest stay in a safe location in their usual region awaiting their return.  

 

I do get a bit tired of the excuse "oh the clans are just growing further apart as the years go on", to account for new variations in behaviour.   The Arlathaven's are specifically there to allow them to keep a sense of common identity.    I would imagine the clans that are no better than bandits, probably aren't that bothered about meeting up with the others and maintaining traditions but for those that are, then customs would be kept going down the years.    Part of the Dalish's justification for the life they lead is that they are trying to keep traditions alive.    The rule of 3 made sense if one clan was lacking an apprentice for their Keeper and another had more than they needed.    According to WoT1 most mages come into their power at puberty, at time when young people might move around between clans anyway in order to diversify bloodlines a bit.     The story about Minaeve was daft on two counts; first that they would dump any child in the Wilderness, much less a mage; second that she was not much good as a mage since apparently she was something of a precocious talent coming into her magic so young.    However, if she didn't have much magical ability, she wouldn't be much of a threat.    That whole story seemed to me to be there to stop people saying that the Dalish manage okay without Templars.   Of course Merrill admitted that sometimes even Keepers become possessed (as Marethari does but deliberately) but that the clan then simply have to hunt their own Keeper.   I would imagine that a swift arrow to the throat should do it.   The Dalish are renowned for their assassins, so I should think they are more than capable of dealing with the average possessed Keeper.    Of course Minaeve wasn't the only one with the story of being kicked out through too many mages; Dalish in the Chargers recounted something similar but she at least was older and for all we know, the Keeper asking her to leave might have been for other reasons.   It is Bull who passes on the story again about having no more than 3 mages in a clan.  

[Vit246]

I've always thought 10 years between every meeting was way waaay too long. 1 year sounds more reasonable.

 

I do get a bit tired of the excuse "oh the clans are just growing further apart as the years go on", to account for new variations in behaviour.   The Arlathaven's are specifically there to allow them to keep a sense of common identity.    

 

^this.