Aller au contenu

Photo

Is the ARK actually a reaper?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
216 réponses à ce sujet

#51
Prince Enigmatic

Prince Enigmatic
  • Members
  • 507 messages

Why are the Krogen allowed on the ARK if it is pre-ME3?

 

If it is pre-ME3, and the krogan are allowed, I guess we'd have to assume that despite most of the galaxy seeing the krogan as nothing more than warring brutes and what not, individual krogan presented themselves and the argument that this is not the case. No species should be left behind, not to mention should they encounter hostile alien species like the Rachni (at least, during the Rachni Wars) then the krogan would probably be relied on along with the other strong miltant races and individual people to combat that threat, sans genophage afterwards.

 

I'm sure there would be use for krogan like the Shaman and Bakara and some of the scientists like Okeer and the one encountered on Tuchanka, and that they shouldn't be excluded. 

 

It is interesting though as to whether the Ark left right before ME3, or during ME3's events. That opens another can of worms, because then its about whether this was before the Tuchanka arc or afterwards. 



#52
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

Why are the Krogen allowed on the ARK if it is pre-ME3?

For the sake of preservation of all species in the galaxy? Remember, if the ARK is actually departing the galaxy prior to ME3 to get away from the reapers, it only makes sense that the galaxy would want to preserve as much of its culture and species as possible. Not all krogan are "bad," regardless of what you may believe. We have seen examples throughout the trilogy of krogans who were actually civil and peaceful that would certainly be welcome aboard the ARK. Remember the krogan with the asari on Illium who was professing his love? Not all krogans are like Weav who are hellbent on war and chaos, contrary to generalizations of the krogans.

 

Regardless, we don't even know if there are any krogans on the ARK. You are using unconfirmed leaks to inform your opinion when we don't know if they are credible or true. We don't know who is on the ARK, but it's more than likely most of the species from the Milky Way are represented on it in some way, shape, or form.



#53
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

If it is pre-ME3, and the krogan are allowed, I guess we'd have to assume that despite most of the galaxy seeing the krogan as nothing more than warring brutes and what not, individual krogan presented themselves and the argument that this is not the case. No species should be left behind, not to mention should they encounter hostile alien species like the Rachni (at least, during the Rachni Wars) then the krogan would probably be relied on along with the other strong miltant races and individual people to combat that threat, sans genophage afterwards.

 

I'm sure there would be use for krogan like the Shaman and Bakara and some of the scientists like Okeer and the one encountered on Tuchanka, and that they shouldn't be excluded. 

 

It is interesting though as to whether the Ark left right before ME3, or during ME3's events. That opens another can of worms, because then its about whether this was before the Tuchanka arc or afterwards. 

We definitely know the ARK doesn't depart during ME3 as the MEA N7 Day Teaser trailer shows it depart from Earth. The planet currently isn't being occupied by the reapers, which would suggest it is likely taking place before ME3 even begins.



#54
Prince Enigmatic

Prince Enigmatic
  • Members
  • 507 messages

We definitely know the ARK doesn't depart during ME3 as the MEA N7 Day Teaser trailer shows it depart from Earth. The planet currently isn't being occupied by the reapers, which would suggest it is likely taking place before ME3 even begins.

 

Thanks, I stand corrected.

 

Then like I and Revan said, it is likely that there would have been a strong argument for the preservation of the krogan because they don't all conform to the stereotype that is widely spread across the galaxy.

 

Speaking of this, I do wonder about the yahg...


  • DeathScepter aime ceci

#55
Rocks_and_shoals

Rocks_and_shoals
  • Members
  • 40 messages

If it is pre-ME3, and the krogan are allowed, I guess we'd have to assume that despite most of the galaxy seeing the krogan as nothing more than warring brutes and what not, individual krogan presented themselves and the argument that this is not the case. No species should be left behind, not to mention should they encounter hostile alien species like the Rachni (at least, during the Rachni Wars) then the krogan would probably be relied on along with the other strong miltant races and individual people to combat that threat, sans genophage afterwards.

 

I'm sure there would be use for krogan like the Shaman and Bakara and some of the scientists like Okeer and the one encountered on Tuchanka, and that they shouldn't be excluded. 

 

It is interesting though as to whether the Ark left right before ME3, or during ME3's events. That opens another can of worms, because then its about whether this was before the Tuchanka arc or afterwards. 

 

Except that the Salarians and turians designed the genophage because they were so afraid of the Krogen. The salarians even threatened not to help shepard against the reapers if he aided the krogen. They didn't commit genocide against the krogen because there would have been a galactic uproar, but if the reapers were to destroy the dangerous krogen, that would be ok. And since the salarians and turians are two of the four main members of the citadel council and we are assuming the citadel council was responsible for creating the ARK, again, why risk bringing the Krogan along? Especially since their continued existence pre-ME3 might mean they may eventually cure the genophage and wage war against the Andromeda species pre-ME3. I also don't know that the turians were that grateful for krogan help on Tachunka yet because the war hadn't been won against the reapers and they didn't see them as equals.

 

It would make more sense that if the citadel council species created the ark, it would be for citadel council species preservation only.


  • UpUpAway aime ceci

#56
Cainhurst Crow

Cainhurst Crow
  • Members
  • 11 374 messages

@Revan Reborn

I like mass effect when it doesn't go full mentally-challenged-space-magic with it's story and knows what's more important to focus on. The reapers weren't the main focus of the story of the trilogy, in fact they weren't even at the true forefront of the stoty. They were a looming threat, a narrative sword of damocles hanging over the player that needed to be stopped, a foil of sorts that needed to be dealt with. But they certainly did not take up the majority of the players actions nor was it the most talked about plot point within the tale.

Its like how the star wars films main plot line is the struggle between the light side and the dark, but how it isn't really the entire focus of the story, and is rather a backdrop for the real focus of defeating the empire and winning the rebellion.

Mass Effects main plot focus is on stopping saren, we don't know about the reapers involvement in this until near the very end of the game and even then, it's glossed over more as a rushed excuse for why saren is doing this. Ie the bad writing plot device known as indoctrination. But the conversation with sovereign was dull and uninteresting once you stop being in awe of the floating red computer model and realize he doesn't actually say anything significant. He just spouts generic half-monologues about how better he is and how everyone sucks but him, he's just a discount AM with half the menace.

But what stuck out much more during that same mission was the confrontation with saren, the dialogue between the two. But even more of a standout moment, was when wrex confronted you on the mission, showing a real concern for his race. Mass effect's main focus wasn't about the reapers, it was about stopping a madman from killing a bunch of people, and finding incentive from your various crew members and npcs you met to keep them from being destroyed.

In mass effect 2, it's even more blatant how broken the reapers are in terms of writing via thw collectors. You and your squadmates go **** off in a shuttle because the writers were really desperate to have them invade the normandy and had no clue how to write it well. But more blatant then that, the main focus of ME2 is all about your team. You spend by far way more time helping your team then you do fighting the collectors, and if you don't, you suffer for it in the end game.

Now at the end of ME2 I was excited for the reaper war, I admit. But the problem is any war with an "ageless and unstoppable enemy" translates into "use the deus ex machina to save the day". Now this could have been avoided entirely, if we had 2 or 3 additional games about building up thw galaxies defenses and uniting the worlds together, maybe had a title centered around the batarian/human war, and another having to do with the genophage/salarians and quarians/geth and ending with the war with the reapers and dealing with their agents.

Instead it all got thrown into the game about the reapers full scale invasion. And we all know what utter crap the reapers were in mass effect 3, and how dumb the writing got when it truly was fully centered on the reapers. Hell, the dlcs most praised in the game were both dlcs thst had no focus on the reapers at all. If that's not telling about what mass effects main focus was, and what it should never have been, I don't know what is.



#57
Gothfather

Gothfather
  • Members
  • 1 405 messages
/snip

 

Repurposing Sovereign would be an excellent idea - though it can't "be" Sovereign who was only a fraction the size of the Citadel itself.  This ship is going to really need to be Citadel-sized to be of even the slightest plausibility.  We call them "Generation ships" currently.   NOTE:  Generation ships are considered "interstellar" arks... while we're traveling in an intergalactic one  So - we just need some more magic is all. 

 

Would it be possible that Javik could have assisted?  Or that it's a Prothean ship?  I'd like that I think.  I true Protheon vessel from where the Collector vessels come from.

 

NOTE:  Look up the collector ships.  It looks almost exactly like one (with the addition of the petals)

 

My vote - it's an actual Prothean vessel.

 

There doesn't actually need magic to get to Andromeda we have real life theories today that can solve the problem if they are proven true. There is nothing beyond the reason to imagine that two hundred years from now someone figured out how to take a current day theory and make it practical 200 years from now.

 

Worm holes are not science magic they are hard science and taking a hard science theory and making it science fact in science fiction isn't considered science magic.

 

The whole reason the reapers created the citadel and the mass relays was to interrupt the natural progression of science for organics  so they act in a more predictable pattern for the reapers during harvest. There is nothing in the lore that can't have organics acting unpredictably by developing wormholes during the last stages of a cycle. Nothing is fool proof even the intended purpose of the citadel and mass relays.

 

I do not know what form the ark will take but people use the term space magic/hand waving far too liberally on these forums.


  • DarthSliver aime ceci

#58
Rocks_and_shoals

Rocks_and_shoals
  • Members
  • 40 messages

For the sake of preservation of all species in the galaxy? Remember, if the ARK is actually departing the galaxy prior to ME3 to get away from the reapers, it only makes sense that the galaxy would want to preserve as much of its culture and species as possible. Not all krogan are "bad," regardless of what you may believe. We have seen examples throughout the trilogy of krogans who were actually civil and peaceful that would certainly be welcome aboard the ARK. Remember the krogan with the asari on Illium who was professing his love? Not all krogans are like Weav who are hellbent on war and chaos, contrary to generalizations of the krogans.

 

Regardless, we don't even know if there are any krogans on the ARK. You are using unconfirmed leaks to inform your opinion when we don't know if they are credible or true. We don't know who is on the ARK, but it's more than likely most of the species from the Milky Way are represented on it in some way, shape, or form.

 

I'm pretty sure the salarians and turians would have been happy if the krogan had been wiped out by the reapers. They created the genophage against the entire species to control them. And salarians threatened not to help shepard with the reapers if he did help curing the genophage. That looks like pretty strong resentment to me, if you are willing to risk the survival of your own species to ensure the krogan are not helped.

Also, its a bit silly to suppose that the citadel council let 'good krogan' on board. I suppose their decendants would be good krogan too? If they had decendents? They weren't so discriminating when 2 of the 4 council races released the genophage, so why should they be with allowing krogan on the ARK. If it were me, I would only allow citadel species on board the ARK since it was citadel species efforts and taxes that payed for it and made it happen. I'm not going to care about the preservation of all species. Like the rachni? Yes, I'm sure the salarians were very concerned about preserving the rachni when they uplifted the krogan to wipe them out....

 

We see a krogan in the E3 trailer and it has been confirmed that there will be krogans in Andromeda.



#59
UpUpAway

UpUpAway
  • Members
  • 1 201 messages

Except that the Salarians and turians designed the genophage because they were so afraid of the Krogen. The salarians even threatened not to help shepard against the reapers if he aided the krogen. They didn't commit genocide against the krogen because there would have been a galactic uproar, but if the reapers were to destroy the dangerous krogen, that would be ok. And since the salarians and turians are two of the four main members of the citadel council and we are assuming the citadel council was responsible for creating the ARK, again, why risk bringing the Krogan along? Especially since their continued existence pre-ME3 might mean they may eventually cure the genophage and wage war against the Andromeda species pre-ME3. I also don't know that the turians were that grateful for krogan help on Tachunka yet because the war hadn't been won against the reapers and they didn't see them as equals.

 

It would make more sense that if the citadel council species created the ark, it would be for citadel council species preservation only.

 

Agree.  Not to mention that accommodating the krogan on ships even to just get them to the battlefields of Palaven is described in ME3 as being a very difficult undertaking given their tendencies to fight with each other and their requirements for special foods.  Also, taking them along to preserve their species without ensuring that the individuals you were taking would be sufficiently fertile to actually do that seems just a tad hypocritcal to me.

 

@Revan Reborn - There are some holes in your theory whether you want to see them or not.  What we know is that ME:A is staged in the Andromeda galaxy far into the future after the events of ME3.  The rest is speculation.



#60
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

<snip>

I disagree. The entirety of the trilogy was always about the reapers. Once we found out Sovereign was pulling Saren's strings and not the other way around, it was always the reapers Shepard was after. In fact, the reapers were all Shepard ever talked about the entire time and wouldn't shut up about. To not recognize the reapers were the main focal point of Mass Effect 1-3 is to entirely miss the point of what the franchise was about. The reapers were the grand finale. They were the threat all along, whether it was Sovereign, Harbinger, or the catalyst. They were prevalent and the main focal point in every game and the plot was always surrounded by the reapers.

 

Your comparison of Star Wars doesn't make sense. It would be more apt to suggest he reapers are like the Sith (Darth Vader and the Emperor) who are the main evil that needs to be vanquished and are pulling the strings of everybody else. That is exactly what the reapers are. They are the Sith of Mass Effect.

 

Using ME2 to prove your argument is pretty weak considering ME2 had no plot. Out of the three games, it did nothing to continue the story. Three major things happen: Shepard dies, Shepard recruits team for suicide mission, Shepard does suicide mission. That's it. There was no point to that game. However, the collectors were controlled by, guess who? The reapers!

 

You are confusing your own dislike of how the reapers handled with what was the "focus" of the franchise. The reapers were always the focus. Just because you didn't like how BioWare handled it doesn't disregard that simple fact.



#61
Ahriman

Ahriman
  • Members
  • 2 015 messages

 

I know what the Council told the public. I'm just merely suggesting they wanted to believe that as being the truth as well. I don't believe for a second the Council ever took Shepard seriously or his warning of the reapers. They just saw Saren as a spectre gone rogue and Shepard as a nut rambling about visions he had. They saw his predictions more than likely as coincidence rather than the beginning of the end.

If they believed it was a geth they wouldn't need to edit the records to show it as one. If they didn't believe Sovereign is a Reaper they wouldn't call him like that.



#62
BioWareMod02

BioWareMod02
  • Moderators
  • 722 messages

Hello everyone. Please keep it civil and on topic in here. Thank you.


  • DeathScepter et KrrKs aiment ceci

#63
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

If they believed it was a geth they wouldn't need to edit the records to show it as one. If they didn't believe Sovereign is a Reaper they wouldn't call him like that.

You'll have to point me towards what you are referring to specifically. It has been some time since I played the trilogy. I never received any impression the Council took Shepard seriously until the reapers had already invaded the Milky Way.



#64
themikefest

themikefest
  • Members
  • 21 587 messages

Its possible parts of Sovereign are used to build the ship. When talking to Anderson in ME2, he will say that less than half of the reaper was accounted for.


  • DeathScepter et SwobyJ aiment ceci

#65
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

Its possible parts of Sovereign are used to build the ship. When talking to Anderson in ME2, he will say that less than half of the reaper was accounted for.

Exactly. This, alone, is just one of many ways in which BioWare can justify the Council building the ARK. I will not be surprised at all if BioWare Montreal has actually gone this direction. It's just too convenient.


  • DeathScepter aime ceci

#66
Ahriman

Ahriman
  • Members
  • 2 015 messages

You'll have to point me towards what you are referring to specifically. It has been some time since I played the trilogy. I never received any impression the Council took Shepard seriously until the reapers had already invaded the Milky Way.

https://youtu.be/qYqx51bdcDw?t=1m51s



#67
DarthSliver

DarthSliver
  • Members
  • 3 335 messages

We definitely know the ARK doesn't depart during ME3 as the MEA N7 Day Teaser trailer shows it depart from Earth. The planet currently isn't being occupied by the reapers, which would suggest it is likely taking place before ME3 even begins.

 

So I guess Shepard is also saying farewell to us too. That Trailer was just a show, showing our departure from the METrilogy to MEA. Its time to move on type of thing. The only thing probably legit for the game in that N7 Trailer is the ship getting us to Andromeda. 



#68
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

I still wouldn't say that's outright confirmation the Council believed in the reaper threat. Again, they had already stated they did this cover up in ME2, so this little moment in the Citadel doesn't change anything. That footage seems to suggest they are under the impression Sovereign was actually a reaper, but their only source for that was Shepard. Had the Council truly believed what Shepard had said, they would have made preparations rather than doing nothing.

 

So I guess Shepard is also saying farewell to us too. That Trailer was just a show, showing our departure from the METrilogy to MEA. Its time to move on type of thing. The only thing probably legit for the game in that N7 Trailer is the ship getting us to Andromeda. 

This is your opinion and nothing more. I don't know how this is "showing our departure from the METrilogy to MEA" when the video has nothing to do with the original trilogy. It's entirely about why the ARK exists and it immediately leaving the Sol system to Andromeda. Nothing in the trailer indicates at all that this has anything to do with the original trilogy. Again, if the ARK launches before ME3, then that's definitely not correct. It wouldn't be unreasonable to believe Shepard had recorded that as a farewell to the crew that was leaving the Milky Way forever. Shepard did become the spokesperson for the galaxy after all.



#69
Ahriman

Ahriman
  • Members
  • 2 015 messages

Had the Council truly believed what Shepard had said, they would have made preparations rather than doing nothing.

:mellow:

But your thread is about Council doing Ark in the face of Reaper invasion. Are you trolling me?



#70
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

:mellow:

But your thread is about Council doing Ark in the face of Reaper invasion. Are you trolling me?

Yes and no. What I was suggesting is the ARK was initially built for the purpose of exploiting this new technology the Council had obtained thanks to Sovereign. It wasn't until the Council fully recognized the threat of the reapers via the collectors and possibly the events in the Arrival DLC that the ARK was re-purposed to preserve as many galaxy species as possible. Similar to what the MEA N7 Day Teaser trailer suggests, it alludes to the need for exploration as well as the need for survival.



#71
Heimdall

Heimdall
  • Members
  • 13 220 messages

We definitely know the ARK doesn't depart during ME3 as the MEA N7 Day Teaser trailer shows it depart from Earth. The planet currently isn't being occupied by the reapers, which would suggest it is likely taking place before ME3 even begins.

I wouldn't be so quick to regard that teaser as a canon portrayal of events, myself.

I do believe that Bioware will probably have Sovereign's drive core or at least the study of its remains be critical in the production of the ARK however. It seems to be the easiest way to explain the capacity for intergalactic travel in a short span of time without inventing something altogether new.

#72
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

I wouldn't be so quick to regard that teaser as a canon portrayal of events, myself.

I do believe that Bioware will probably have Sovereign's drive core or at least the study of its remains be critical in the production of the ARK however. It seems to be the easiest way to explain the capacity for intergalactic travel in a short span of time without inventing something altogether new.

Why would BioWare create a trailer setting up MEA if it isn't canonically accurate? BioWare doesn't just release trailers for the sake of hype and nothing else. Remember the ME2 teaser trailer with the short glimpse of Legion wearing Shepard's N7 armor? That trailer suggested many things (Shepard being dead, geth having his armor, etc.) without explicitly addressing anything. There are easter eggs as well as hints throughout most of these trailers informing the player of what to expect and what the game is going to be about.



#73
Heimdall

Heimdall
  • Members
  • 13 220 messages

Why would BioWare create a trailer setting up MEA if it isn't canonically accurate? BioWare doesn't just release trailers for the sake of hype and nothing else. Remember the ME2 teaser trailer with the short glimpse of Legion wearing Shepard's N7 armor? That trailer suggested many things (Shepard being dead, geth having his armor, etc.) without explicitly addressing anything. There are easter eggs as well as hints throughout most of these trailers informing the player of what to expect and what the game is going to be about.

As a farewell to the previous trilogy and to buildup hype for going to Andromeda. The trailer is accurate, but not literal. I doubt they're making it canon that Shepard knew about the ark before ME3 (while under arrest) and gave an inspirational speech from house arrest.
  • Shechinah et Grieving Natashina aiment ceci

#74
UpUpAway

UpUpAway
  • Members
  • 1 201 messages

Why would BioWare create a trailer setting up MEA if it isn't canonically accurate? BioWare doesn't just release trailers for the sake of hype and nothing else. Remember the ME2 teaser trailer with the short glimpse of Legion wearing Shepard's N7 armor? That trailer suggested many things (Shepard being dead, geth having his armor, etc.) without explicitly addressing anything. There are easter eggs as well as hints throughout most of these trailers informing the player of what to expect and what the game is going to be about.

 

For example, the Mass Effect Distress Call Trailer was not completely accurate.  Shepard never had to made a choice between answering a distress call on Noveria vs. responding to something else on Caleston.

 

For example 2, the Mass Effect 2 trailer made it sound like it was just Shepard choosing to recruit assassins, etc. instead of Cerberus providing him only with selective dossiers from which to recruit.

 

For example 3, the Mass Effect 3 Take Back Earth trailer shows Shepard picking up a toy ship as he and Ashley walk into the battle on earth.  That scene (or anything even remotely close to it) ever occurs in the game.

 

I agree that Bioware foreshadows a lot of things in the little things they reveal in their trailers... but I wouldn't necessarily count of every little detail being canonically accurate.


  • Hanako Ikezawa et SwobyJ aiment ceci

#75
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 2 997 messages

As a farewell to the previous trilogy and to buildup hype for going to Andromeda. The trailer is accurate, but not literal. I doubt they're making it canon that Shepard knew about the ark before ME3 (while under arrest) and gave an inspirational speech from house arrest.

Who said Shepard knew about the ARK specifically? There are a variety of reasons this monologue could have been recorded. Shepard was the icon of humanity. We don't even know when Shepard could have been recorded saying this. You are making too many inferences based on inferences not grounded in actual evidence. It is your subjective believe that the "trailer is accurate, but not literal." However, you do not have the means to actually articulate this as being true as you, yourself, do not know.