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[Gervaise]

I like all the lore and I used to read the codices in game avidly, taking notice of the information particularly if it was about my chosen race of elf.   I have also bought both the source books and the last three novels.     The annoying thing for me is when these aren't consistent with one another.    

 

A small example, that probably wouldn't bother most people, is how they altered the history of the Sabrae clan from how it was in DAO where my first Warden was Dalish, to how it is in World of Thedas 2.   The timescale for the death of the keeper prior to Marethari didn't fit with them being the father of my Warden, who you assume is a young person, probably in their early twenties at the time they are recruited.   That is recent history where the people involved are still alive, so it can't be explained away as different memories of the event.

 

Obviously the further back you go in history, the more likely different versions are likely to arise of the same event.   However, it would be nice if people in game could acknowledge those discrepancies.   When it became obvious how much the history of Andraste given in the codices we find in DAI and World of Thedas 2 differ from the version given by the Chantry, why can't my character bring this up with anyone?  

 

It also made Solas seem all the more secretive when you discover in Trespasser just how much he was involved with events, both in the recent and distant past, and yet never even so much hinted at things you might find helpful.   Considering his stock answer when challenged was always "I saw it in the Fade", when you go into the Deep Roads in the Descent, he might have given a little bit of insight into what we were going to find considering he had first hand knowledge of the Titans.   May be warning you that the Elder One had survived the explosion at the Conclave before he attacked Haven might have saved a few lives (He only had to walk up the mountain, claim he lay down in the ruins and then come back with the information) but, no, he holds out until after we have nearly been killed and then only imparts the information that the wretched orb is elven.     Mind you he is not the only one, since neither Morrigan, nor Leliana, thought to mention how arch demons are killed and that may be the reason Corypheus survived his encounter with Hawke might be down to the same thing.   Morrigan only thought to mention it after we had seen him burst out of the Grey Warden and Leliana never said a thing, even though Hawke and Varric were both perplexed about this issue.

 

So I love all the lore, it makes the world seem real but I'd rather they didn't withhold information from the PC that people around them should know about, purely for plot device or deny them the opportunity to quiz people about matters that have been revealed in the course of their travels.

[Mistic]

A small example, that probably wouldn't bother most people, is how they altered the history of the Sabrae clan from how it was in DAO where my first Warden was Dalish, to how it is in World of Thedas 2.   The timescale for the death of the keeper prior to Marethari didn't fit with them being the father of my Warden, who you assume is a young person, probably in their early twenties at the time they are recruited.   That is recent history where the people involved are still alive, so it can't be explained away as different memories of the event.

 

Was it an alteration? I remember that the timeline didn't fit in DA:O either, because Marethari was obviously old, probably too old to be the apprentice of the Warden's father.

 

My theory at that time was that Keeper Mahariel was Marethari's apprentice and she decided to retire and have it easy in her last years, leaving her post to him. But we know how everything ended, so Marethari not only had to become Keeper again, but find another apprentice (Merrill). The Keeper mentioned in WoT 2 would be the Keeper before her first term, not Mahariel's father.

[Gervaise]

Just because you are First or Second to the Keeper doesn't necessarily mean you are going to be young when you take over.   If the Keeper lives to a right old age, the First could already be middle aged when they take the position.    Plus Marethari didn't strike me as that old in DAO and younger than she looks in DA2.   If the Mahariel's father died before they were born and they were around 20 years of age, that would mean Marethari would proably have been in her mid to late twenties when she took over, which seems about right.    The timescale in WoT2, assuming she inherited the position in her late teens/early twenties means she would be around 49 years of age when we first meet her and 55 years of age at time of death.  

[In Exile]

The timeline for the Dalish origin was screwed all around.

[Navasha]

Well a deep rich lore does make a game far more believeable and enjoyable.   That said, even Dragon Age is kind of light compared to the kind of background lore of Elder Scrolls.   I mean the lore writer they had for Morrowind was literally a genius.   TES has sort of moved away from delving into that level of lore since, but its still there as background to the TES universe.

[Rosey]

As stated previously, there's any number of ways for Mahariel's Father to have been keeper before Merethari. For starters, the previous keeper could have died and Mahariel's father could have been their first and Merethari their second. Mahariel could have become keeper, and taken Merethari as first.

 

He could also very well have been older then Merethari. Men can create children till the day they die, unlike women. If he was say, in his late 40's, or even early 50's and Mahariel's mother, who could have been anywhere from 15ish to late 40's when they had them, Merethari could have easily been in her late 20's when they died/Maheriel was born. it just means that Merethari was in her 50's when she died. It's not a stretch. They live in the wilderness, and up until the last 75/100 years or so, in real time, people didn't typically live much past their 60's. Life's not easy, and stress often makes you look a lot older then your actual age. What's more stressful then having to take over leadership?

 

We today typically find it squicky to think of a much older male and a young woman having children, but historically speaking it isn't unheard of. Nor is it really even unheard of today of late-20, early 30-something women marrying much older men (in their 50's or older even) and having families. As an older woman (33) I don't particularly find the idea of settling down with someone 20 years my senior all that weird or wrong. Especially if there's mutual respect and love. The differences inherent in age gaps shrinks significantly once you get out of your 20's.

 

So yeah, it's not nearly as inconstant as it seems. You just have to remember that you can't place current societal norms on fantasy-trope worlds.

[Catilina]

You should not be surprised that the game is not a simple background.
All major role-playing the game is quite complicated, so have extensive backstory: for example DnD (Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance etc) WoD (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Changling etc), and yes, there are such among the non pen-and-paper based role-play games: as The Elder Scrolls.

If you want to know all things of the world, you must read the books, what you found.
And so it is good, I think.

[Secret Rare]

I think it's supposed to be events and history viewed through the interpretive distortion lenses of different cultures.

I would like it more if I didn't have the sneaking suspicion that they were making it up with each game to suit that particular story's needs. Just trying to reconcile the idea that Cory is reborn inside Grey Wardens because an aspect of him is inside a false Archdemon, when that "soul" jump rebirth is how the real Archdemons are killed is making my head hurt.

Headache to me as well...

One would expect that Corypheus soul inside of a GW should be destroyed while the part inside his dragon pet survive,but instead he survive as a whole..

[vertigomez]

You should not be surprised that the game is not a simple background.
All major role-playing the game is quite complicated, so have extensive backstory: for example DnD (Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance etc) WoD (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Changling etc), and yes, there are such among the non pen-and-paper based role-play games: as The Elder Scrolls.
If you want to know all things of the world, you must read the books, what you found.
And so it is good, I think.

Oh my god, WoD metaplot! NEVAR FORGET.

[Cantina]

True. There are points in DA history that conflict or don't make sense. Probably the largest one that stands out for me is the whole Red Lyrium explanation in DAI. So much conflicting information, that I do feel the writers never went back to DA2 to make sure everything added up.

[In Exile]

True. There are points in DA history that conflict or don't make sense. Probably the largest one that stands out for me is the whole Red Lyrium explanation in DAI. So much conflicting information, that I do feel the writers never went back to DA2 to make sure everything added up.

I actually think DA2 is remarkably consistent on red lyrium - especially when it comes to the Titan.

[Hexxagone]

Elder Scrolls lore is easier to learn, even with how much there is because they tell you what happend. You can pick up a book and learn about the First Era.

Dragon Age gives you half truths and theories from characters perspectives and nobody in the games knows their own history. They leave the player to make up their own minds, getting fed misinformation from the fanbase or getting messed up by lore rewrites from different games. Then they keep throwing new things in there like Titans.

[vertigomez]

Elder Scrolls lore is easier to learn, even with how much there is because they tell you what happend. You can pick up a book and learn about the First Era.

Dragon Age gives you half truths and theories from characters perspectives and nobody in the games knows their own history. They leave the player to make up their own minds, getting fed misinformation from the fanbase or getting messed up by lore rewrites from different games. Then they keep throwing new things in there like Titans.

But that's... kind of the point? In the real world, history is pieced together using contemporary accounts, archaeological evidence, etc. There's no handy guide out there that can honestly, definitively tell you what happened at any given point in history. It's all piecemeal, and some information is more reliable than the rest.

[KaiserShep]

But that's... kind of the point? In the real world, history is pieced together using contemporary accounts, archaeological evidence, etc. There's no handy guide out there that can honestly, definitively tell you what happened at any given point in history. It's all piecemeal, and some information is more reliable than the rest.

Pretty much this. It makes the setting seem more organic.

[Andraste_Reborn]

The timeline for the Dalish origin was screwed all around.

 

Most of the actual contradictions in the lore are caused by the writers' inability to math. This is also what lead to Anders and Justice apparently being in two places as once during the early parts of DA2.

 

I think they need some kind of wall chart with a timeline on it.

[In Exile]

Most of the actual contradictions in the lore are caused by the writers' inability to math. This is also what lead to Anders and Justice apparently being in two places as once during the early parts of DA2.

 

I think they need some kind of wall chart with a timeline on it.

 

Having a chart doesn't help with their inability to get numbers. You see this in the really tight timeline for Inquisition forced by the date of the Exalted Council in Trespasser. Bioware doesn't need a chart, they need someone with a head for numbers. 

[Addictress]

Most of the actual contradictions in the lore are caused by the writers' inability to math. This is also what lead to Anders and Justice apparently being in two places as once during the early parts of DA2.

I think they need some kind of wall chart with a timeline on it.

Do you mean Amaranthine and Lowtown?

[fizzypop]

Because it makes things interesting. I actually prefer the lore of DA over many other fantasy worlds because of how detailed and mysterious their lore is. It leaves a lot of room for speculation and interesting stories to tell. It is also quite "life" like tackling issues like racism, slavery, and gender. Pretty big social issues to tackle for a game.

[AedanStarfang]

Replace David Gaider with Michael Kirkbride, then we'll see how convoluted things can be...

[Giantdeathrobot]

Compared to much other fantasy lore, it's relatively simple really.

 

Other franchises like D&D and Elder Scrolls have unspeakably developped lore. And not always for the better, because a lot of it can be just, well, not that interesting. Warcraft is another example of where it can easily go out of hand. And if people think Dragon Age is big on retcons, ooooh boy Elder Scrolls is far worse, they just handwave it with ''magic did it'' or ''Talos thought it was a cool idea'' and get away with it because the very concept of reality is screwy in that series.

 

My favorite part of DA's lore is that no one holds the absolute truths. Even people like Flemeth and Solas who were actually there when stuff happenedtm don't actually know everything and have agendas and ideas that skews their perception of history. Just like, well, in real life. As one of my teachers said, there is no such thing as a most accurate view of events, only a least inaccurate.

[thats1evildude]

I actually think DA2 is remarkably consistent on red lyrium - especially when it comes to the Titan.

I have to agree. Looking back on it, a lot of the lore with the Primeval Thaig makes sense. The rock wraiths were dwarves that ate lyrium and thus "feasted upon the gods (Titans)."

Our children wept in hunger,
And so we feasted up on the gods.
Here we wait in aeons of silence,
We few, we Profane.

[Kaweebo]

Compared to much other fantasy lore, it's relatively simple really.

 

Other franchises like D&D and Elder Scrolls have unspeakably developped lore. And not always for the better, because a lot of it can be just, well, not that interesting. Warcraft is another example of where it can easily go out of hand. And if people think Dragon Age is big on retcons, ooooh boy Elder Scrolls is far worse, they just handwave it with ''magic did it'' or ''Talos thought it was a cool idea'' and get away with it because the very concept of reality is screwy in that series.

 

My favorite part of DA's lore is that no one holds the absolute truths. Even people like Flemeth and Solas who were actually there when stuff happenedtm don't actually know everything and have agendas and ideas that skews their perception of history. Just like, well, in real life. As one of my teachers said, there is no such thing as a most accurate view of events, only a least inaccurate.

Exactly. One o the coolest things about Dragon Age is that it leaves so much to interpretation. There are so many gaps in history that nobody ever has a true understanding. All we can go off of is what we've seen, heard and choose to believe. That's something that works exceptionally well in an RPG settings like this where the player gets to form their own opinions. 

[Almostfaceman]

The Maker, the Fade, Veil, old Gods, Elven Gods, Andreste, Elven history, the Chantry, multiple ages etc.

Who can follow all this? Im sure Bioware writers even get confused.

 

Do you want it to be less complicated? 

[Andraste_Reborn]

Do you mean Amaranthine and Lowtown?

 

Yeah. Awakening takes place at the same time as the first act of DA2.

 

(There's only a year between the destruction of Lothering - which happens right after you finish the first major area in DAO - and when Hawke meets Anders. That's really not enough time for the Warden to defeat the Blight, Felsi to have a baby and Anders to be recruited into the Wardens, merge with Justice, run away and get established in Lowtown.)

[Addictress]

Yeah. Awakening takes place at the same time as the first act of DA2.

(There's only a year between the destruction of Lothering - which happens right after you finish the first major area in DAO - and when Hawke meets Anders. That's really not enough time for the Warden to defeat the Blight, Felsi to have a baby and Anders to be recruited into the Wardens, merge with Justice, run away and get established in Lowtown.)

Aw....crap...well, maybe Hawke doesn't meet Anders exactly one year after. You know how Varric narrates that a year passed since Hawke moved into Kirkwall and then tried to join the deep roads expedition? Well many months could've passed while Hawke and Carver were searching for opportunities, months until they met Varric. So ....that gives us almost a whole extra year :3