I would like it if his loss this time is not something on his own body but rather losing something important to him, like becoming guilty of something or losing his best partner or completing his goal but losing what he has fought for personally
Well, Shepard technically covers most if not all of those bases already.
This topic is eerily poignant and aligns with the flawed philosophy the writers have over there in Canada. Some in this very thread have argued "It's not a loss if you can choose to avoid it."
I deny that sentiment with every fiber of my being. You can avoid dying to the arch demon, but you cannot avoid dying an early death. You can avoid dying in Mass Effect 3, but that's only if you have an extremely strong imagination. And as we all know, imagination is better left to those who actually write for a living. I think the only protagonist listed on there who has a genuine happy ending (in spite of whatever Gaider deigned to be appropriate) if you make the right choices is Hawke. And that's an exception to the rule.
Mass Effect 3 is just the biggest offender when it comes to this RPG transgression. You can, technically choose to have Shepard live in the end. But it doesn't really mean anything. It's just there as window dressing. It would be as if they showed in a cutscene Shepard getting his arms and legs torn off. He would also be decapitated by a small, maturing Thresher Maw. But post credits, Bioware comes onto Twitter and says
"Don't Worry, Shepard is still alive."
I'm sorry Bioware but you can't have your cake and eat it too. For all intents and purposes, you made him dead. That was your original intention when you started writing Mass Effect 1 I presume. For all intents and purposes, you left us with an inhaling torso at the very very end. But that's all Shepard will be to me now. Because you thought it was appropriate to do so. You overrode my decisions. Now, all I think about when I imagine Shepard is a quadriplegic sans a head to boot.
I don't imagine him as the hero you seem to think he still is. You think he has some legacy now. That may be so. But not for me.
I said fate, not loss. If you can avoid a certain outcome, then it's technically not fated to happen.
<snip>
I think you took the ending of ME3 far too personally. Cheer up man, it's just a game. I seriously doubt BioWare will ever write another ending even closely resembling ME3.
This topic is eerily poignant and aligns with the flawed philosophy the writers have over there in Canada. Some in this very thread have argued "It's not a loss if you can choose to avoid it."
(snip)
I don't imagine him as the hero you seem to think he still is. You think he has some legacy now. That may be so. But not for me.
Does Shep really have to have saved the galaxy from a cycle of extinction that had gone on for Millenia in order to have been a hero? IF the ending is viewed as Shepard being reflective as he's dying of the choices he's already made in the game (a la Tennyson's Ulysses), then that breath could be merely a sigh of satisfaction as he's dying. In that interpretation, all that's being asked is for the player to reflect on their own game choices made to that point and decide for themselves whether in all of that unravelling of moral dillemas (albeit some poorly constructed moral dilemmas) was there any useful legacy that the player could apply to their own lives?
At any rate, as Revan Reborn has said, I don't think Bioware is going to repeat the same sort of narrative in ME:A... in the mythology that, IMO, is being foreshadowed here... Andromeda is saved by Perseus.
Well for what it's worth (not much probably), so is my Shepard alive because pissed off Jack is scary.
And I think the pathfinder will be forced to marry the daughter/son of a chieftain because s/he did something. 
Alright, let's see what kind of fate awaits Pathfinder *rubs magic balls to see into the fu - no wait, that sounds awfully wrong, ah, well, whatever*
Mass Effect Andromeda - Pathdinder defeats the evil overlord of the evil Alien Star Empire, and mankind gets access to the technology this race had hidden all along: eternal youth and (almost) eternal life! In the end, Pathfinder and LI stand at a window, look out at the planet that will become the new home of Mankind!
ME: Andromeda 2: Hundreds of years have passed! Pathfinder has lived a seculded life, occasionally helping the rising Star Republic of Mankind! Now she returns, and overcomes the evil ancient star-lords that threaten the galaxy after tehir awakening from an eon-long slumber! In the end, Pathfinder claims their powerful fleet, weapons, and everything else for mankind! She and LI (still young and beautiful of course) look out of a window into the stars!
ME3: The Star Republic of Mankind rules supreme when an outside-threat enters the Galaxy! Pathfinder is summoned once more to help to defeat the crazy robotic superfish from outer-galaxy! In the end, she is crowned Empress of the newly founded Star Empire of Mankind! Together with her LI-queen-consort she looks at the stars in the end (through a window, no less!), as the massive fleet of the Empire prepares to bring justice, peace and progress to new galaxies!
And I am actually only half-joking here ... ^^
I think you took the ending of ME3 far too personally. Cheer up man, it's just a game. I seriously doubt BioWare will ever write another ending even closely resembling ME3.
Unfortunately because from a distance the ending feels right if you detach yourself from the writing. I'm all for endings where you end up in some sort of high-falutin debate, it's just that in ME3 it's such a misfire in everything it is in terms of the writing but the aesthetics and the sense of tension was all there as opposed to the end of DA:I. My heart was thumping the entire time throughout the finale the first time I played it.
Unfortunately because from a distance the ending feels right if you detach yourself from the writing. I'm all for endings where you end up in some sort of high-falutin debate, it's just that in ME3 it's such a misfire in everything it is in terms of the writing but the aesthetics and the sense of tension was all there as opposed to the end of DA:I. My heart was thumping the entire time throughout the finale the first time I played it.
I actually didn't mind ME3's ending nearly as much as most folks on BSN. I thought it was poorly executed when ME3 first released. However, with the inclusion of the extended cut and the Leviathan DLC, most of my issues with the ending were rectified. I never expected ME3 to have a Disney "Happy ever after" ending and anyone who had that expectation set themselves up for disappointment.
You were that excited for DAI's ending? I found the Corypheus fight to be rather underwhelming and even the party afterwards was a poor attempt at fan service. I wasn't impressed with DAI at all from a storytelling standpoint. It was far too convoluted, long-winded, incomprehensible, and poorly articulated to ever formulate any coherent or concise ending that would have led to a much more satisfying result. At least Gaider is out of the picture now though?
I actually didn't mind ME3's ending nearly as much as most folks on BSN. I thought it was poorly executed when ME3 first released. However, with the inclusion of the extended cut and the Leviathan DLC, most of my issues with the ending were rectified. I never expected ME3 to have a Disney "Happy ever after" ending and anyone who had that expectation set themselves up for disappointment.
You were that excited for DAI's ending? I found the Corypheus fight to be rather underwhelming and even the party afterwards was a poor attempt at fan service. I wasn't impressed with DAI at all from a storytelling standpoint. It was far too convoluted, long-winded, incomprehensible, and poorly articulated to ever formulate any coherent or concise ending that would have led to a much more satisfying result. At least Gaider is out of the picture now though?
When will people stop projecting the issue to how "sad it was"? >_>
I think anyone but the teenage Bioware fan crowd was completely okay about the idea of a sad or bittersweet ending. What people expected wasn't a happy ho-hum ending like ME2. It was that we'd get an ending that would do what great endings do which is provide resolution, closure and leave you feeling fulfilled. After playing the majority of ME3 and especially the Earth mission anyone should be able to get a sense that this wasn't going to end on a rainbow and bunnies happy ending. Whether it was happy or sad was never the issue. There is a reason why people don't have an issue with Titanic's sad ending even though it's a movie even simple-minded people can enjoy.
You were that excited for DAI's ending? I found the Corypheus fight to be rather underwhelming and even the party afterwards was a poor attempt at fan service. I wasn't impressed with DAI at all from a storytelling standpoint. It was far too convoluted, long-winded, incomprehensible, and poorly articulated to ever formulate any coherent or concise ending that would have led to a much more satisfying result. At least Gaider is out of the picture now though?
Wait, DA:I's story was convoluted? I dunno, I thought it was pretty straightforward. You make it sound like a David Lynch movie.
When will people stop projecting the issue to how "sad it was"? >_>
I think anyone but the teenage Bioware fan crowd was completely okay about the idea of a sad or bittersweet ending. What people expected wasn't a happy ho-hum ending like ME2. It was that we'd get an ending that would do what great endings do which is provide resolution, closure and leave you feeling fulfilled. After playing the majority of ME3 and especially the Earth mission anyone should be able to get a sense that this wasn't going to end on a rainbow and bunnies happy ending. Whether it was happy or sad was never the issue. There is a reason why people don't have an issue with Titanic's sad ending even though it's a movie even simple-minded people can enjoy.
This. I don't care about a "happy happy ending" I just wanted closure.
I got none.
This. I don't care about a "happy happy ending" I just wanted closure.
I got none.
Personally, I don't think real closure was in the cards either. People still debate whether Tennyson's Ulysses is speaking before or after death... from hell. ME3 endings were poorly done and, as a result, missed with their target audience by a wide margin. However, continually dragging ME:A back to those endings is just going to hamstring that game as well. What's done is done. Hopefully, Bioware will do a better job this time round. On a positive note, the mythology surrounding Andromeda and Perseus is more in line with classic Hollywood ending - "The hero wins and gets the LI."
Personally, I don't think real closure was in the cards either. People still debate whether Tennyson's Ulysses is speaking before or after death... from hell. ME3 endings were poorly done and, as a result, missed with their target audience by a wide margin. However, continually dragging ME:A back to those endings is just going to hamstring that game as well. What's done is done. Hopefully, Bioware will do a better job this time round. On a positive note, the mythology surrounding Andromeda and Perseus is more in line with classic Hollywood ending - "The hero wins and gets the LI."
Agreed. I don't want Andromeda to touch them either, I'm over it personally, could care less.
As for that, yeah, dunno about that one, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Agreed. I don't want Andromeda to touch them either, I'm over it personally, could care less.
As for that, yeah, dunno about that one, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Not really holding my breath on that either... but at least it's a premise in lore that should be a bit easier to deal with than Ulysses.
Pathfinder steps off the ship, gets hit by poisoned blow darts, and dies right there. Game over. Now can we go back to the calm and quiet Terminus Systems? I hear it's a buyers market.
When will people stop projecting the issue to how "sad it was"? >_>
I think anyone but the teenage Bioware fan crowd was completely okay about the idea of a sad or bittersweet ending. What people expected wasn't a happy ho-hum ending like ME2. It was that we'd get an ending that would do what great endings do which is provide resolution, closure and leave you feeling fulfilled. After playing the majority of ME3 and especially the Earth mission anyone should be able to get a sense that this wasn't going to end on a rainbow and bunnies happy ending. Whether it was happy or sad was never the issue. There is a reason why people don't have an issue with Titanic's sad ending even though it's a movie even simple-minded people can enjoy.
I disagree. Just seeing the forums on here after ME3's ending, what I saw far more often than anything else was people furious that all of their choices led to Shepard dying or killing all synthetics and Shepard not being able to live happily ever after with his/her LI. Most people seemed to assume the crucible was just the magical answer to everything and would allow all of the main cast to get out of ME3 alive and into the sunset. This was a perspective I saw articulated time and time on BSN as well as various other platforms for social media.
Wait, DA:I's story was convoluted? I dunno, I thought it was pretty straightforward. You make it sound like a David Lynch movie.
No. The main quest about the Inquisitor is not convoluted on its own. What was convoluted was all of the various mini-stories woven in to help accommodate for the failed DAII expansion as well as the attempts at BioWare trying to tie up loose ends from DAO while also systematically opening up a can of new worms of plenty of questions without answers. DAI felt less like a standalone Dragon Age game and more like an excuse to either offer fan service to the previous games or try to resolve issues that had been lingering for a long time. A better way of phrasing it is DAI, in terms of actual substance to the main story, was rather bare and uninteresting. It was a game largely being held down by the legacy of DAO and DAII, thus never being able to flourish and be its own true game.
If BioWare was so desperate to bring back half the cast from DAO or dedicate a large portion of the game to DAII (as well as the antagonist from DAII), they should have just made a sequel with the Hero of Ferelden or Hawke as the protagonist rather than shoehorning in a new guy with no personality who was completely out of place.
After saving the Ark from an attack that would have wiped out humanity from Andromeda, the damaged Tempest spirals off into space and crash lands on a desolate, frozen planet. The Pathfinder and squadmates are the few to survive the crash. The set out in search for the ship's comms relay, only to succumb to mortal injuries, battle the icy elements, and hungry wildlife along the way.
Granted that Shepard's death didn't happen till game 3 and the ending to DA:I wasn't told till after DLC so its hard to say. I'm betting that the fate of the pathfinder will be seen either after three games or during DLC. What every that fate be it will be in service of his/her mission.
What is your guess of what happens to the Pathfinder? My guess is they get spine damage and have to be in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives.
What is your guess of what happens to the Pathfinder? My guess is they get spine damage and have to be in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives.
Pathfinder is horribly maimed and supposedly dead.
The sequel's protagonist's first big decision will be to pull the life support plug or use the minimally damaged brain as part of the control unit of an experimental new dreadn... battle robot.
Pathfinder is horribly maimed and supposedly dead.
The sequel's protagonist's first big decision will be to pull the life support plug or use the minimally damaged brain as part of the control unit of an experimental new dreadn... battle robot.
What is this? Robocop?
Revan also got a forced gender change operation and turned into a scruffy white dude. With a mullet.
To be fair though Lucas Arts did that before SWTOR anyway, not BioWare.
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