I considered it very neat especially since it helped show how dangerous the anchor was becoming not just towards the Inquisitor but towards the Inquisitor's surroundings as well.
i didn't say the loss wasn't well-rationalized, but the motivation was clearly not to make the story more interesting, but to depower the Inquisitor so that the anchor would not be able to interfere in future plots. *How* it was done was fine, *that* it was done was not, IMO.
I wouldn't want the same - or something similar - to happen to more of Bioware's protagonists.
i didn't say the loss wasn't well-rationalized, but the motivation was clearly not to make the story more interesting, but to depower the Inquisitor so that the anchor would not be able to interfere in future plots. *How* it was done was fine, *that* it was done was not, IMO.
I wouldn't want the same - or something similar - to happen to more of Bioware's protagonists.
They didn't do it to "de-power" the anchor. The plot clearly requires someone else to have it - it's made clear throughout the game that the Anchor is a key to the manipulation of the Veil. Corypheus wants it.
The problem is BioWare protagonists don't win anymore. The Warden doesn't win against his taint. Hawke doesn't win against Nightmare (or, anything, for that matter). The Inquisitor does not win against Solas. Shepard does not win against the Reapers.
When I become Pathfinder, the players are going to Win-Win-Win, and we're going to make Mass Effect great again.
This legitimately brought a single, manly, testosterone-injected tear to my eye. Not even being facetious. People are finally understanding why I and many others have grown a bit despondent with Bioware of late. I don't know if this was done tongue in cheek or if you meant it or even if you didn't mean it at all. I still love this post. When people love something, they hate to see it destroyed even more than those who love that something unconditionally.
And if I am sounding a bit....existentialist right now, I have my reasons that have formed IRL in this very week. Sorry. Hopefully Andromeda will bring the joy back into people's lives when it releases.
Warden: Set to die early of the taint or dies in the end
Shepard: Dies defeating the Reapers
Hawke: Dies in the Fade in most people's games
Inquisitor: Hand is cut off and becomes handicapped
What is your guess of what happens to the Pathfinder? My guess is they get spine damage and have to be in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives.
Wait, Hawke dies in most people's games? Source? Since the default Warden is Stroud, I wouldn't think it's that compelling to save him in place of Hawke. Even someone who hadn't played DA2 would have had a lot more characterization and detail about Hawke from speaking on the battlements and talking to Varric, whereas Stroud is just...there.
For the Pathfinder, they are going to be stuck on some desert world and realize that there's no bathroom in sight, and they can't remove the space suit because the air is toxic
Still, I'd take the Inquisitor's fate over Shepard's any day of the week.
Definitely. I may not like it, but I can work with DAI's outcome, and I'll buy the next DA game unless something really bad is revealed about it. Nonetheless, for the next protagonist my #1 wish is: not a hint of "brought down to normal" or "brought down by your supposed allies" in the game's ending unless I can avoid it. Even a forced "walk away into the sunset"-analogue, Fallout-style, would be preferable to that.
"They lived happily ever after" just isn't for me...
I tend to prefer bittersweet endings as well, though it depends entirely on the story. The tone of the ending needs to match the rest of the game.
While I didn't care for Mass Effect 3's endings, I do think Bioware had the right idea at least in aiming for an ending that wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. They just didn't execute well. Nothing less than a bittersweet tone would have been appropriate for a story set during an apocalyptic war in which billions had died.
If you're going to write a story where the main character has a part to play in a major war, I think a good starting point would be looking at the Duke of Wellington's comment in a letter, shortly after his victory at Waterloo. "My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers.Nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won."
Sunshine and rainbows endings are completely out of place in any story set during a major war.
"They lived happily ever after" just isn't for me...
Maybe so but the hero dying/failing and hero surviving aren't mutually exclusive. The game should offer the option to reach either outcome through your choices, not just the doomy gloomy one.
Sunshine and rainbows endings are completely out of place in any story set during a major war.
It's more that any ending to a story set during a major war by definition isn't "sunshine and rainbows". Most real victory celebrations after the end of a war were as much about "the war is finally over" as about "we won" and had melancholy elements in them.
However, none of that excludes the possibility of the protagonist surviving in a reasonably intact condition and actually having won against their antagonists. Also, losses suffered during the story are both more acceptable and more plausible than losses suffered in the ending, or even worse - see Trespasser - in the extended epilogue. And lastly, I want to have a choice about the kind of loss I suffer since because of how I envisioned my characters, some will inevitably be less acceptable than others. For instance, in Trespasser I didn't mind the loss of the arm as such, I hated the loss of political independence and losing out against Solas, Ferelden and Orlais, but it wouldn't have been such a big matter if not for the loss of the anchor, which I *really* resented. For my human Inquistor at least, if not for others.
So. let me choose the downside to my ending. And make sure one of the options is actually acceptable.
Laughing_Man, Iakus, Chardonney et 3 autres aiment ceci
Maybe so but the hero dying/failing and hero surviving aren't mutually exclusive. The game should offer the option to reach either outcome through your choices, not just the doomy gloomy one.
Agree completely. Real options regarding the protagonist's fate are a must in my book in an RPG rather than one person's gloom preference.
Pathfinder will take his fame and success badly. His love interest will try to stick by him but will have to intern him into a rehab clinic after he gets addicted to red sand. She will eventually leave him after he gets in and out of rehab and several instances where he is found being unfaithful to her. He later on lives on the streets of a human colony. He will see his former love interest walking by but she will not recognize him due to the abuse of drugs and alcohol. The only thing she will recognize is his N7 tattoo on his left hand that will bring a tear to her eyes when she notices it but she keeps walking as she doesn't believe the man scruffy man could ever be the Pathfinder she fell in love with.
Have a "Reverse Origin" - where instead of starting off the game with a story, you craft an Epilogue through the course of the game.
You will always be: "An Old Version of Main Protagonist in Dwelling."
- Is the Dwelling X, Y or Z?
- Are you with family or no?
- Is there a love interest?
- Happy, sad or embittered life?
Etc. etc. You play an hour long epilogue about the inevitable death of your character at the very end of their life replete with the possibility of children and family... success and continued adventures... peace and solitude... whatever.
Conclusion of story - end to character - player got to play a part in how it was made (at least with as much freedom as any cRPG can handle). End of story.
cRPGs are often too "final" in their storytelling... lives don't work that way.
Wait, DA:I's story was convoluted? I dunno, I thought it was pretty straightforward. You make it sound like a David Lynch movie.
It had one of the most patronizing "mystery" plots I have seen in quite some time. Everything was so predictable it made me scratch my head if there was some kind of layering to the narrative I was missing.
I tend to prefer bittersweet endings as well, though it depends entirely on the story.
I like it when it is done well.
For example 0081: Battlefield Record
In the conclusion of the Zeon campaign after defending the lunar base from a incoming Federation assault, the plan that the entire squad has been preparing for over the last three years since the defeat of Zeon at A Baoa Qu comes to fruition. The mass driver or coilgun depending upon how you view the tech flings the prepared nuclear shell at Earth, there is nothing the Federation can do to stop it now, their only shot went up in smoke with the Gundam. You Erik Blanke leader of the Zeon remnants group have succeeded in your mission, the terrorist attack on Odessa is inevitable now and not to mention you get to end a years old rivalry that started back during the One Year War. Between you and the Gundam pilot.
So how do they conclude this story? Well you have already asked the surviving members of your team and the lunar base to flee to avoid capture, your last squadmates depart before the final boss with them wishing you victory. So where do they go from here?
Just as you watch that nuclear shell begin its descent into the Earth, the Federation reinforcements arrive.
The developers have never committed on just what happens after this scene, leaving it up to fan interpretation.
Also can we comment on how bad ass Erik was even for PC? He scrapped a Gundam in a Gelgoog.
Pathfinder will take his fame and success badly. His love interest will try to stick by him but will have to intern him into a rehab clinic after he gets addicted to red sand. She will eventually leave him after he gets in and out of rehab and several instances where he is found being unfaithful to her. He later on lives on the streets of a human colony. He will see his former love interest walking by but she will not recognize him due to the abuse of drugs and alcohol. The only thing she will recognize is his N7 tattoo on his left hand that will bring a tear to her eyes when she notices it but she keeps walking as she doesn't believe the man scruffy man could ever be the Pathfinder she fell in love with.
Just reading this made me depressed beyond means...
*sigh*...okay, Pathfinder is crowned Queen of Andromeda, becomes immortal, reconquers the Milkyway and makes everything "right" again ... yes, go away depression, hello sunshine, lollipops and rainbows!
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