95 réponses à ce sujet

[greenbrownblue]

Oh I know. It's just that Marius and Tessa don't appear to be a part of the Inner Circle or even the outer circle (Harding, Krem, etc), just a few agents. What I meant is that I think its clear that Dorian is going to play a big part of whatever the plot of DA4 is (as an adviser or follower who knows) and that actually knowing Dorian even in passing sort of hints that he or she might show up. And the fact that Marius provides the former-slave's perspective which could be one of the themes of DA4.

Ah ok... I am ok with them showing up, just not as companions. It would be a nightmare if Bio actually decided to make them protagonists like Hawke (limited to human race and with one background story. Just nope. Nope. N.O.P.E.

[BansheeOwnage]

The Venatori never leave the Hissing Wastes, even if you raid all the Dwarven tombs.

You do rescue a couple slaves, but presumably Marius is raiding some fortress where the majority as being kept.

Well, in terms of DA:I, the only reason they're still there is because of infinite respawns. If there was a fortress or keep near there, my Inquisitor would have taken it.

[Dai Grepher]

Isn't there a Chore Table mission about driving the Venatori out of the Hissing Wastes? Maybe it shows that, and Dorian was part of it canonically.

[thats1evildude]

No, the only War Table Mission in the Hissing Wastes I recall involves recruiting freed slaves into the Inquisition.

[Gervaise]

I know it is probably only part of game mechanics but there is a suggestion that when you go out on missions, all the Inner Circle companions tag along, since if you decide to change party make-up part way through an area, you only have to return to your nearest camp to swop them and not all the way back to Skyhold.   Plus many conversations you have with them after major plot points give the impression they were actually there and not just hearing about it when you got back.

 

Take Adamant for example, there is a missile that lands in front of you with a message stuck on it from Sera; Dorian says how upset he was when he thought he had lost you regardless of whether you took him into the Fade with you or not   Your response and the subsequent conversation differs according to whether you took him or not but not his initial reaction.    He could hardly have thought he was about to lose you if he was sitting in the library back at Skyhold.     This also makes sense of getting instant companion reactions to certain decisions, like in the Winter Palace, even when you didn't officially invite them and them talking about it as though they were there.   Even if Cole was not invited, Dorian will ask him how he liked the party and Cole will mention the hats.

 

Which is why it does seem odd if they have members of the Inner Circle off somewhere without the Inquisitor because there was no indication that sort of thing occurred in game, either on the War Table or in conversations with them.   After all, if they wanted to have Marius interact with Dorian, they could have had Marius and Tessa actually visit Skyhold and hang out in the tavern, since Dorian does like to spend time relaxing there.

[thats1evildude]

The message on the boulder isn't from Sera. If it had been, it probably would have been more vulgar.

You are correct that your companions are active during main quests, though.

[vbibbi]

They also appear to be working with its-a-bow-not-a-Mage-staff Dalish.

And yes this does appear to be an instance of a follower going out alone. I'm not particularly bothered by it, honestly. It's not like the companions were unable to leave Skyhold without the Inquisitor chaperoning them. Just think of it as something Dorian did while the Inquisitor was off exploring other regions with different followers.

Edit: I want to know what a Perrepatae is...

I'm genuinely curious whether the fanbase thinks "I'm not a mage!" Dalish is funny or not. It was kind of funny the first time, but for me it's become a tired meme like Cassandra's disgusted noise or the facepalm-worthy "Deal. With. It." said when someone can't actually string together a coherent argument.

 

Having the comics occurring on the tails of Inquisition is giving me that feeling of the couple on the third (?) season of Lost, who were retroactively inserted into the past two seasons as a "funny" way of showing what the non-main cast was doing. It was too intentionally cutesy and self-congratulatory and the characters were quickly killed off. If there had been just a cameo of Tessa and/or Marius within DAI (only known in hindsight) that would have been cool, like the multiplayer agents in Skyhold. As it is, it's frustrating and makes me feel like the Inquisitor was kept in the dark. Dorian wouldn't mention he encountered two Tevinter mage killers who've joined the Inquisition? He seems fairly open to telling us about all other Tevinter resources he's trying to use to help us.

 

I find it very odd that they keep sending Marius and Tessa to the same locations that we visit with the Inquisitor.  They could just as easily have involved them with one of the war table missions that would link them in with events of Inquisition without crossing over into quests that we were a part of in game.   When we go to the Hissing Wastes, we free slaves who are being used by the Venatori, so what it going on here?   Plus we send the Chargers out on various missions for the Inquisition but none that involve the Hissing Wastes.  In my canon run through Dorian and my Inquisitor were practically joined at the hip; so he's hardly likely to be heading up some mission in the Hissing Wastes on his own with the Chargers.  It can't have happened before Skyhold because we don't even know about the Hissing Wastes until after we take up residence.   It would be stupid to suggest that Dorian wasn't recruited because for most people he was.  

 

If they make the Iron Bull/Dorian relationship canon in this comic I shall likely give up on the franchise altogether.   Regardless of David Gaider and Patrick Weakes own personal preference on the matter, relationships that are open to the PC should be left out of non-game material because it really spoils the setting.  It irritated me no end that they did seem to be pushing it so much.     When Leliana crops up in the novels they keep it deliberately vague about the Warden, so whether you romanced her or not, it doesn't ruin the immersion. 

Also if Dorian/IB is in the comics, Bioware is basically saying that the Inquisitor is not a gay male or didn't romance anyone.

[SgtSteel91]

I'm genuinely curious whether the fanbase thinks "I'm not a mage!" Dalish is funny or not. It was kind of funny the first time, but for me it's become a tired meme like Cassandra's disgusted noise or the facepalm-worthy "Deal. With. It." said when someone can't actually string together a coherent argument.

 

I chuckled that her staff does kind of look like a bow.

[nightscrawl]

Well, we have two weeks to wait, so we'll just have to see how the whole thing is presented. I think this thread has just about run the gamut as far as speculation goes.

[vbibbi]

I chuckled that her staff does kind of look like a bow.

Another one fallen to the dark side!

[BansheeOwnage]

This also makes sense of getting instant companion reactions to certain decisions, like in the Winter Palace, even when you didn't officially invite them and them talking about it as though they were there.   Even if Cole was not invited, Dorian will ask him how he liked the party and Cole will mention the hats.

After playing it, I was really puzzled as to why you could only bring three companions with you on that mission. It would have been much better if everyone you recruited was present, but you could only take three when going out-of-bounds, like you do now (with the minor benefit of being able to take a bunch of different people through different parts of the mission in one go).

 

Don't most or all people have a different spot in the palace to occupy anyway? Even if not, it would be trivial to move one or two around to make room for everyone. Then you could have input from everyone. Plus, having everyone there but only taking three people away to sneak around would be a lot less suspicious than everyone you brought besides the advisors periodically disappearing all at once. I just think it makes a lot more sense to have everyone there, especially since everyone acts like they were there anyway I feel like it was a huge missed opportunity.

 

I'm genuinely curious whether the fanbase thinks "I'm not a mage!" Dalish is funny or not. It was kind of funny the first time, but for me it's become a tired meme like Cassandra's disgusted noise or the facepalm-worthy "Deal. With. It." said when someone can't actually string together a coherent argument.

I liked Dalish and thought that was funny (though it won't be if they over-play it). I would have liked to see her for more than one scene. Also, she had an interesting voice.

 

I chuckled that her staff does kind of look like a bow.

Me too! It was a nice touch.

[vbibbi]

Me too, this just rubs me the wrong way. I know the Inquisitor can't know everything everyone's doing at once, or know every agent, but adding even more things like this makes me feel like the Inquisitor was even more of a figurehead, and my Inquisitor would at least try to go around and meet people, give support, lead from the front. Oh, and she'd talk to Dorian about lots of things, so I feel like I should have known this.

I just realized you had posted basically the same idea as I had, before my post. So I'll just retroactively agree with what you said before I repeated you!

 

After playing it, I was really puzzled as to why you could only bring three companions with you on that mission. It would have been much better if everyone you recruited was present, but you could only take three when going out-of-bounds, like you do now (with the minor benefit of being able to take a bunch of different people through different parts of the mission in one go).

 

Don't most or all people have a different spot in the palace to occupy anyway? Even if not, it would be trivial to move one or two around to make room for everyone. Then you could have input from everyone. Plus, having everyone there but only taking three people away to sneak around would be a lot less suspicious than everyone you brought besides the advisors periodically disappearing all at once. I just think it makes a lot more sense to have everyone there, especially since everyone acts like they were there anyway I feel like it was a huge missed opportunity.

 

I liked Dalish and thought that was funny (though it won't be if they over-play it). I would have liked to see her for more than one scene. Also, she had an interesting voice.

 

Me too! It was a nice touch.

My impression of the Winter Palace (and possibly all of the main quests, if not the entire game?) was that all companions were present. Solas remarks on how he missed the political intrigue even if he wasn't in the party during WEWH, right? From a gameplay perspective I guess it makes sense only to show the companions we brought stationed around Halamshiral, but it would have been cool if they had all been there, since they do stand in different locations as you point out.

 

I'm remembering now that in HLtA, if a companion wasn't in the party, they ask what it was like in the Fade. So either they didn't go to Adamant at all, or they were there but only the three companions (and Hawke and the Warden) go into the Fade and everyone else is too far away.

 

I don't think there's definitive information on whether companions are always with us or only when directly in the party.

[Gervaise]

With Adamant, everyone went to the Fortress but not everyone went to the Fade.  That makes sense because not everyone would have fallen when the bridge collapsed; they might be back watching the rift in case any more demons came through or you just out ran them.  I'm pretty sure that when you banished the Wardens, Blackwall asked about himself even if you hadn't actually taken him with you but I could be remembering that wrong.

[BSpud]

I'm pretty sure that when you banished the Wardens, Blackwall asked about himself even if you hadn't actually taken him with you could be remembering that wrong.

 

No, you remember right.

[Dai Grepher]

No, the only War Table Mission in the Hissing Wastes I recall involves recruiting freed slaves into the Inquisition.

Could be...

Destroy Adamant Fortress
http://dragonage.wik...damant_Fortress

Maybe Claim Grey Warden Cache, though I forget it's location.
http://dragonage.wik...ey_Warden_Cache

Perhaps Plant Crystal in Venatori Headquarters
http://dragonage.wik...ri_Headquarters

Kind of fits with Calpernia being Marius' target, but him not wanting to kill her. It would be fitting for him to contribute to a quest that leads to her being persuaded to stand down against the Inquisitor. Still, this would basically require the Inquisitor to have sided with templars, and I don't know if that's what the comic is using as canon. I think I read somewhere that the comic uses In Hushed Whispers as its canon.

[nightscrawl]

^ I mentioned IHW as canon earlier in the thread, but that was an assumption due to a previous lines in the comic itself. In issue three, while doing her recap, Tessa says, "They speak of what happened in Redcliffe."

 

The succession of events as laid out in the comic is: Divine murdered, templars abandoned their duty, mages went to war with the Chantry, Inquisition, happenings in Redcliffe, the hole in the sky being closed by the Inquisitor. Now, I realize that that is extremely vague, but it just seems to me that the phrasing makes it seem like IHW happened as part of the events since the templars, or the Herald's dealing with them, are not mentioned in that scenario.

 

Also, the first two war table missions you posted don't take place in the Hissing Wastes, they are in the Western Approach and elsewhere. I don't believe the third is in the Hissing Wastes either.

[Deebo305]

I'm not gonna get my hopes up for adoribull canon, so I think it's just an instance of Dorian going to Hissing Wastes to deal with the Venatori by himself (albeit a bit of a weird decision...), and the inquisition lending the Chargers for him. Could also be that there are other companions in the Wastes as well but that's highly unlikely.

We'll see how it goes though, either way, SUPER EXCITED!

Certainly would have made for an interesting personal quest for Dorian rather than the short bit with his father

[Dai Grepher]

^ I mentioned IHW as canon earlier in the thread, but that was an assumption due to a previous lines in the comic itself. In issue three, while doing her recap, Tessa says, "They speak of what happened in Redcliffe."
 
The succession of events as laid out in the comic is: Divine murdered, templars abandoned their duty, mages went to war with the Chantry, Inquisition, happenings in Redcliffe, the hole in the sky being closed by the Inquisitor. Now, I realize that that is extremely vague, but it just seems to me that the phrasing makes it seem like IHW happened as part of the events since the templars, or the Herald's dealing with them, are not mentioned in that scenario.
 
Also, the first two war table missions you posted don't take place in the Hissing Wastes, they are in the Western Approach and elsewhere. I don't believe the third is in the Hissing Wastes either.

Thanks.

But Western Approach is the same kind of area as the Hissing Wastes, just not at nighttime.

Planting the crystal could involve more than just going to that one place. Maybe they have to find where Calpernia is first.

[vbibbi]

Certainly would have made for an interesting personal quest for Dorian rather than the short bit with his father

It brings up an interesting game play mechanic: have companions not in our current party be able to act as war table agents, but Super Sized. They could yield better results, take less time, and unlock unique outcomes.

[nightscrawl]

Certainly would have made for an interesting personal quest for Dorian rather than the short bit with his father

 

I like Dorian's quest, but you do raise an interesting point. But as far as personal quests go, I like the idea that there is a variety and that they don't all involve combat, some are more elaborate, and so on. Also, if the Inquisitor simply sends him out via the war table, then there is nothing for the player to do in participation, which is part of the whole point of the follower plots in the first place: doing a thing with whomever and getting to know them better.

[vbibbi]

I like Dorian's quest, but you do raise an interesting point. But as far as personal quests go, I like the idea that there is a variety and that they don't all involve combat, some are more elaborate, and so on. Also, if the Inquisitor simply sends him out via the war table, then there is nothing for the player to do in participation, which is part of the whole point of the follower plots in the first place: doing a thing with whomever and getting to know them better.

I like that there was variety in companion quests, but then there were also the fetch quests for companions which were a replacement of the gift system I guess? (Excluding the actual gifts we give LIs I know). Like, Dorian asks us to kill these three groups of Venatori who are mysteriously in the Hinterlands and EP with no explanation of who they are. He doesn't say anything when we take him with us. Why wasn't there some dialogue when confronting each group, where Dorian could talk to the Venatori and ask them to defect/mock them for their bondage gear outfits/bemoan the fact that Tevinters are resorting to following Corypheus because things are so bad back home? Or some follow up dialogue once all groups were dead? I mean, why specifically does Dorian care about these groups of Venatori and not the nameless ones we've already killed? Give me something, Bioware!

 

See also: Vivienne's books, Varric's red lyrium, Cassandra's mages and templars, Solas' elven artifacts. At least Blackwall makes some passing mention to us collecting his GW artifacts.

[nightscrawl]

^ Oh, I completely agree on those "fetch" quests. But at the same time, those were apparently put in so we don't fall behind on approval. For a follower like Dorian who can start out with negative approval if you take the templar path, these type of quests are important. The same applies to Cole and the mage path and taking him along for most of the lamer helpful quests -- "I'm glad we did that."

 

I agree that I would have liked some more reactivity from Dorian during that specific quest, especially since the WT text says, "... these particular Venatori have additional significance to myself. For one, I know them personally. I would call them 'friends,' except that would imply I didn't want them dead. Which I do."

 

He knows these Venatori "personally," and yet there is no sort of response other than approval gain? He doesn't recognize a particular person when we approach; on attacking there is nothing along the lines of "I knew you'd betray your country one of these days, Pavus," followed by, "You might want to look into a mirror for that one, Drusillius"; or some sort of smart-ass remark after the Venatori is dead.

 

I really enjoy DAI, but it is full of many missed opportunities for additional depth, like this one. Then again, hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

[vbibbi]

^ Oh, I completely agree on those "fetch" quests. But at the same time, those were apparently put in so we don't fall behind on approval. For a follower like Dorian who can start out with negative approval if you take the templar path, these type of quests are important. The same applies to Cole and the mage path and taking him along for most of the lamer helpful quests -- "I'm glad we did that."

 

I agree that I would have liked some more reactivity from Dorian during that specific quest, especially since the WT text says, "... these particular Venatori have additional significance to myself. For one, I know them personally. I would call them 'friends,' except that would imply I didn't want them dead. Which I do."

 

He knows these Venatori "personally," and yet there is no sort of response other than approval gain? He doesn't recognize a particular person when we approach; on attacking there is nothing along the lines of "I knew you'd betray your country one of these days, Pavus," followed by, "You might want to look into a mirror for that one, Drusillius"; or some sort of smart-ass remark after the Venatori is dead.

 

I really enjoy DAI, but it is full of many missed opportunities for additional depth, like this one. Then again, hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

Yeah I wasn't able to get his companion quest until after completing the fetch quest since I went through CotJ and he wasn't happy with me.

[Gervaise]

I was wondering what the context was for that line about hearing "what happened in Redcliffe".    That could simply refer to the fact that Alexius used time magic to take the mage army from under the Inquisitor's nose without it necessarily implying that from then on the Inquisitor took the Hushed Whispers path to get them back again.   Of course if you do take Hushed Whispers, Calpurnia doesn't play much of an active role at all in the game, so that would set it up rather nicely for the Mage Killers to get involved in some sort of plot involving her, or simply completing the quests to do with her that you don't get to do with Hushed Whispers.

 

However, I thought the author's intention was to keep everything vague enough that it would fit with anyone's play through.   If that is the case, then he had to be really careful not to get Marius and Tessa too involved in anything that the Inquisitor could have done in the game.    They could be the agents that plant the crystal but only if you do assume that regardless of which path you took in game, the other half of the plot lines were still going on but you just weren't involved personally. Otherwise, people who took Hushed Whispers never found out about the crystal or ordered it placed with Calpurnia.  

 

Of course, in sending the Chargers and Dorian to the Hissing Wastes, the author has already deviated from the gameplay that people experienced because the way it works is that every mission is approved by the Inquisitor at the War Table, yet apparently this one wasn't.   

 

Still may be I'm jumping the gun here and when the comic comes out it will transpire that actually they were all there with the Inquisitor, who was just off in some other part of the Hissing Wastes at the time this incident occurs.   It still doesn't explain why the Inquisitor doesn't know who Marius and Tessa are though in game.

[BansheeOwnage]

^ Oh, I completely agree on those "fetch" quests. But at the same time, those were apparently put in so we don't fall behind on approval. For a follower like Dorian who can start out with negative approval if you take the templar path, these type of quests are important. The same applies to Cole and the mage path and taking him along for most of the lamer helpful quests -- "I'm glad we did that."

Actually, doesn't Cole approve/disapprove of things regardless of if he's in the party (which can be a helpful way to get more than one person to approve)? I like to headcanon that he never stopped stalking you