295 réponses à ce sujet

[German Soldier]

Except that Alistair's value is not as a Grey Warden but as an heir to the throne.  Unless you are a male Cousland you can't begin to fulfill the role Alistair can.  Once the Blight is defeated, Ferelden doesn't need a Big Damn Hero.  It needs a butt securely positioned on that throne.  You are of course free to decide that your character is more important than Ferelden's welfare.  But assuming that you've been going around being a good guy and saving people when you could have just walked past them and avoided risking yourself and your mission, then it wouldn't be surprising if Morrigan doesn't expect your character to throw Alistair under the dragon.   

 

 

Alistair is not the heir of anything he is chosen by the Landsmeet through the HoF but there are others nobles as  candidates like Anora  Eamon,Tegan,Fergus ecc.. all the people you want for the crown with the Landsmeet to avoid civil wars.

 

I understood that it was her life ambition to gain that dragon spirit and even that she was not even so important for the final battle.

The point in which i disagree is that she left  for fear of  the warden's death which i don't believe is the case since  the game made clear from her epilogue with the ring which can have only two outcome  that  she is only sad if the DR is done,if it is not done there is no regret epilogue at all.

 

[Gaia300]

I recently completed uncharted 4  and the relationship between Nathan and Elena in the game reminded me a lot of the one between the warden and Morrigan.

Elena felt so betrayed by the lies of Nathan and this was expressed through a fantastic cinematic dialogue.That's to say that lying will get you nowhere in a couple and even if i  admit to have not played with a male warden yet,i know what would have been my reaction  had i been in his  shoes.

Knowing how she has deceived the warden for almost an year,planned to use him as a pawn to take his son for herself while being furious when this blackmail was refused by abandoning him....my  personal reaction would have been to immediately cut that relationship for my own good.

To return to her like if nothing happened at all while she is not being sad at any point(witch hunt or her DAO epilogue) really seem like an humiliation and one the HoF does not deserve.

That she has matured more in DAI is irrelevant for the warden because the damage was  done in DAO.

Really my only advice in the perspective of male warden who did not end up well with her is to let it go and move on even if it is understandably more difficult if she still has their child(human Kieran) but then again she can't keep the child forever one day he will grow up and follow his own path,at worst the warden will lose his son childhood which is really sad.

[Illegitimus]

Since my warden never thought for a moment that Morrigan didn't have an unrevealed agenda, it never occurred to me to think that she had "lied" to me when she finally revealed said agenda.

[Illegitimus]

 

Alistair is not the heir of anything he is chosen by the Landsmeet through the HoF but there are others nobles as  candidates like Anora  Eamon,Tegan,Fergus ecc.. all the people you want for the crown with the Landsmeet to avoid civil wars.

 

I understood that it was her life ambition to gain that dragon spirit and even that she was not even so important for the final battle.

The point in which i disagree is that she left  for fear of  the warden's death which i don't believe is the case since  the game made clear from her epilogue with the ring which can have only two outcome  that  she is only sad if the DR is done,if it is not done there is no regret epilogue at all.

 

 

 

 

Alistair is only chosen by the Landsmeet based on his ancestry, the backing of Eamon and the Warden and the desperation created by the Blight.  The fact that there are many other possible candidates should Alistair be sacrificed is precisely the problem.  There are many other possible candidates and of them all, only Anora stands out from the crowd in terms of her electability.  But if the Warden considered having Anora as sole monarch to be what he wants…then why didn't they just go with that from the start rather than installing Alistair only to toss him away?  Anora is weak now.  While she's a competent politician and administrator and still popular enough to strengthen a candidate who marries her she's also the daughter of a jumped-up commoner who turned out to be a traitor, possibly infertile and unlikely to give birth to an heir any case, and one of the few Thedan monarchs with no combat or military command capability with which to suppress the likely challenges to her authority 

[German Soldier]

But if the Warden considered having Anora as sole monarch to be what he wants…then why didn't they just go with that from the start rather than installing Alistair only to toss him away?

I already responded to this....

There is a difference between caring about Alistair and caring about Alistair enough to die for him(or summon Chtulu). You could have made Alistair King because you prefer him to Anora but still don't care about his life nor having any problem with another future monarch.

 

  Anora is weak now.  While she's a competent politician and administrator and still popular enough to strengthen a candidate who marries her she's also the daughter of a jumped-up commoner who turned out to be a traitor, possibly infertile and unlikely to give birth to an heir any case, and one of the few Thedan monarchs with no combat or military command capability with which to suppress the likely challenges to her authority 

 

 

 

 

 

Since my warden never thought for a moment that Morrigan didn't have an unrevealed agenda, it never occurred to me to think that she had "lied" to me when she finally revealed said agenda.

 

Anora isn't weak she administered everything for 5 years and has a great reputation over the nobles who know that she was imprisoned by her own father during the blight.

Loghain's fall does not undermine her reputation this is proved from the fact that even if she is not made Queen she still remain an high ranking noble.

 

 

 

 

That she was hiding something was evident,her joining to fight the blight for the world from such a selfish person was bizarre to say the least.

Still this does not deny that she tried to mislead the warden or that she lied just because the warden suspected something.

Gameplay wise if you kick her out form the party her codex will update and reveal that she and Flemeth were scheming something way before the end of the game.

[straykat]

I've been fooling with the Keep, for possible future playthroughs. I still can't roll with this. lol. A good Warden definitely works, but being a bastard with Morrigan has a certain resonance to it. The opposite for Leliana or Alistair. Zev... I'm kind of iffy on.

 

Perhaps it's similar to one thing I do though. I have one Warden who slowly falls for Leliana. He starts out aggressive though. I guess the opposite with Morrigan works just as well.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

I've been fooling with the Keep, for possible future playthroughs. I still can't roll with this. lol. A good Warden definitely works, but being a bastard with Morrigan has a certain resonance to it. The opposite for Leliana or Alistair. Zev... I'm kind of iffy on.

 

Perhaps it's similar to one thing I do though. I have one Warden who slowly falls for Leliana. He starts out aggressive though. I guess the opposite with Morrigan works just as well.

I think i'm too old for the good guy with the bad girl ot the bad guy with the good girl.

If i have to pick someone from DAO  that would be Anora.

[straykat]

I think i'm too old for the good guy with the bad girl trope...

 

That's basically how I feel... I think I said this when the thread started.

 

And yet I play the bad guy with the good girl trope. Such a hypocrite

[ThomasBlaine]

I think i'm too old for the good guy with the bad girl ot the bad guy with the good girl.

If i have to pick someone from DAO  that would be Anora.

 

Definitely. No sensible PC of any Origin except possibly an adventurous Brosca or a rebellious mage would ever have convinced themselves that Morrigan or Zevran were worth pursuing under normal circumstances. It'd have seemed a hopeless venture, and far too much trouble.

 

I find that given several months camping together though, being on the run, exiled from home and without prospects, it's kind of understandable to engage with someone so impulsively. Morrigan really is very beautiful, and has no problem showing it off, and Zevran is no doubt very charming and impressive to someone who's used to being a social underdog.

 

And yes, more Anora in future games please.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Definitely that was the word i was looking for "impulsive".

Alistair,Morrigan and Leliana are too impulsive for many warden Origins.

[straykat]

I think Ali and Leli are cool fits for Tabris and the mages, personally. But anything can work, as long as you have a good story for it. Some people's imaginations will surprise you (in a good way lol).

[Illegitimus]

 

 

 

 

That she was hiding something was evident,her joining to fight the blight for the world from such a selfish person was bizarre to say the least.

Still this does not deny that she tried to mislead the warden

 

 

So did Leliana.  So did Alistair.  So did Wynne.  And the ones  who didn't have worse problems.  

[Aren]

 

Or do I just go forever alone with him ?

 

Personally I find her a bit too overbearing and domineering  in the relationship and  demeanour and i don't really like this kind of people.

[straykat]

I think her level of misleading is the most extreme though. And kind of personal, if you're Dalish. She asks you to kill one of their gods... and even if she didn't know that, she apparently knows a lot more about the Dalish than she lets on. So you can add that to her info about the blight.

[Illegitimus]

I think her level of misleading is the most extreme though. And kind of personal, if you're Dalish. She asks you to kill one of their gods... and even if she didn't know that, she apparently knows a lot more about the Dalish than she lets on. So you can add that to her info about the blight.

 

 

 Alistair withheld actually useful information.  Morrigan didn't.  And Morrigan asking you to "kill" Flemeth was not at all part of misleading you.  Everything she told you in regard to that was later confirmed to be the truth as she knew it.   She didn't know Flemeth carried a chunk of Mythal, and she did believe that Flemeth intended to steal her body, and she was right that it wasn't actually possible to kill Flemeth in a lasting way.

[German Soldier]

So did Leliana. So did Alistair. So did Wynne. And the ones who didn't have worse problems.

 

 

Alistair withheld actually useful information.  Morrigan didn't.  And Morrigan asking you to "kill" Flemeth was not at all part of misleading you. Everything she told you in regard to that was later confirmed to be the truth as she knew it.

Companions not revealing their past which is part of their personal life because they don't even know you isn't a form of deception and they reveal everything at good approval.Honestly i don't understand why this should be considered a form of misleading against the warden?

 

Alistair being son of Maric (which is revealed as soon as the warden enter in Redcliffe) isn't an useful info  like you claimed because without

Arl Eamon neither Alistair and neither the warden  can prove that he is Maric's son.

The warden can reasonably believe that Alistair isn't Maric's son  until someone like Eamon confirm it.

 

During her mommy quest she mislead the warden(Toolset info) since she didn't tell  anything about the reasons as for why she was sent at the specific question of the PC  and yet still attempted to use the warden against Flemeth thus endangered their life for a deception.

 

[Illegitimus]

 

 

During her mommy quest she mislead the warden(Toolset info) since she didn't tell  anything about the reasons as for why she was sent at the specific question of the PC  and yet still attempted to use the warden against Flemeth thus endangered their life for a deception.

 

 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.  The reason why she was sent has nothing to do with it.  

 

 

 

Companions not revealing their past which is part of their personal life because they don't even know you isn't a form of deception and they reveal everything at good approval.Honestly i don't understand why this should be considered a form of misleading against the warden?

 

Alistair being son of Maric (which is revealed as soon as the warden enter in Redcliffe) isn't an useful info  like you claimed because without

Arl Eamon neither Alistair and neither the warden  can prove that he is Maric's son.

The warden can reasonably believe that Alistair isn't Maric's son  until someone like Eamon confirm it.

]

 

 

 

Yes the Warden might not believe Aiistair.  So?  Is "I might not be believed" more of an excuse for him than it is for Morrigan?  Alistair lied about himself, and the fact he was concealing about himself might have a bearing on the Warden's decision about where to go and when.  

[straykat]

 Alistair withheld actually useful information.  Morrigan didn't.  And Morrigan asking you to "kill" Flemeth was not at all part of misleading you.  Everything she told you in regard to that was later confirmed to be the truth as she knew it.   She didn't know Flemeth carried a chunk of Mythal, and she did believe that Flemeth intended to steal her body, and she was right that it wasn't actually possible to kill Flemeth in a lasting way.

 

Still knows a lot more about the Dalish than she lets on.

 

That isn't why I dislike her though. I'm just saying. If anything, my problem with her is ethical.

[Secret Rare]

I have no idea what you are talking about.  The reason why she was sent has nothing to do with it.  

 

 

Yes the two things are connected.

 

During that quest the warden asked why she was sent to fight the blight if her mom wanted her body.

Obviously she was sent  to complete the ritual but Morrigan didn't told this to the warden she withhold the info to convince them to fight Flemeth  in fact Toolset VO  say that Flemeth understood that her daughter lied to the warden to reach this end result that's way  she suggest to lie to Morrigan as well.

So not only she deceived the warden there but even put their life at risk for that deception.

 

 

[Illegitimus]

 

Yes the two things are connected.

 

During that quest the warden asked why she was sent to fight the blight if her mom wanted her body.

Obviously she was sent  to complete the ritual but Morrigan didn't told this to the warden she withhold the info to convince them to fight Flemeth 

 

 

Um…so what?  Yes, Morrigan is holding back the revelation of her ultimate agenda until the last moment  (just as Alistair holds back the secret of his ancestry until the last moment before Eamon is going to inevitably reveal  it anyway).  What difference does it make?

[Secret Rare]

Um…so what? Yes, Morrigan is holding back the revelation of her ultimate agenda until the last moment (just as Alistair holds back the secret of his ancestry until the last moment before Eamon is going to inevitably reveal it anyway). What difference does it make?

That Morrigan directly endangered my life for that deception thus betrayal while Alistair's inheritage didn't.

My warden suffered Flemeth dragon form jaws for her deception while i had to suffer no consequences for Alistair's past.

 

 

[Illegitimus]

 

That Morrigan directly endangered my life for that deception 

 

 

No she didn't.  Once again, Morrigan's desire to create and nurture a reincarnation of an old god has nothing at all to do with her desire to avoid having her own body stolen by an ancient abomination.  

[Lunatica]

 

Hi folks, I need your help on this one.

 

I made a male Surana and the plan I have is for him to romance Morrigan. But the thing is that this Surana is a decent Elf. He helps people when he can, he is against slavery / pro freedom and he is against defiling ancient relics. He understands the necessity of the Circle even though he is against it being policed by the religious and prefers to be supervised by those who understand magic (so pro-Circle but anti-Templar). Essentially he is a neutral / good Warden.

 

The problem is that Morrigan goes against all these things. She disapproves when you try to help people, be it in Lothering or Redcliffe. She disapproves of the idea of the Circle of Magi completely. She disapproves when you try to save the Elves in the Alienage. She disapproves when you try to save the mages and when you want to destroy the Anvil of the Void (though the persuasion dialogue negates this somewhat). She disapproves when you do not do as Kolgrim asks. Lastly, she wants to condemn an innocent child to the burden of carrying the soul of an Old God for no clear reason (she never explains why she wants to have the soul in the first place).

 

So how do I romance Morrigan as a good / neutral Warden without just making her stay at camp all the time / bribing her with jewelry ?

 

Or do I just make him go for Leliana instead ? But how do I reconcile the fact that Surana finds Chantry & the Maker to be a load of hogwash (or he finds the whole Andraste-Maker thing to be a woman falling for a Fade spirit and nothing more) ?

 

Or do I just go forever alone with him ?

 

I never responded directly to the OP so here it is my view of Morrigan in general based on my character.

The reason i dislike Morrigan is because how manipulative she is or at least appeared to me. You can have sex with her (as a male warden) with less requirements than any other, which can be because of her personality but still its quite easy, even if she disaproves everything you do, you can win her back with simple gifts and at the top of all, if you don't perform the ritual she just leaves  no matter how much you need her, and she even tried to use my feelings for Leliana to make me force Alistair to perform the DR. With my first warden (female city elf) she was quite nice, she even had a really nice and intimate moment talking about how she went with me without expecting much, just to obey Flemeth but grew really close to me, called me a friend and even a sister when i helped her with Flemeth. However when i needed her the most, she left because i didn't agree to force Alistair to perform the DR, at that moment I wasn't really her sister, she knew how important she was for me both sentimentaly and in battle (was in my main party since the beginning) but she still left without me having the option of at least try to convince her, i don't even remember if she explained her reasons to leave. So that moment showed to me that she was lying the whole time, she used me to get rid of Flemeth and to have access to an Old god's soul, she didn't care about my safety or feelings or even the task.

 

 

@illegitimus

I don't see the two things as totally unrelated like you do.

Morrigan decided to use the warden for her own needs which includes the battle with Flemeth which happened for those lies by omission or do you think that had i knew about the ritual i would have trusted her any longer to the point of risking my life against Flemeth?

[straykat]

 

I never responded directly to the OP so here it is my view of Morrigan in general based on my character.

The reason i dislike Morrigan is because how manipulative she is or at least appeared to me. You can have sex with her (as a male warden) with less requirements than any other, which can be because of her personality but still its quite easy, even if she disaproves everything you do, you can win her back with simple gifts and at the top of all, if you don't perform the ritual she just leaves  no matter how much you need her, and she even tried to use my feelings for Leliana to make me force Alistair to perform the DR. With my first warden (female city elf) she was quite nice, she even had a really nice and intimate moment talking about how she went with me without expecting much, just to obey Flemeth but grew really close to me, called me a friend and even a sister when i helped her with Flemeth. However when i needed her the most, she left because i didn't agree to force Alistair to perform the DR, at that moment I wasn't really her sister, she knew how important she was for me both sentimentaly and in battle (was in my main party since the beginning) but she still left without me having the option of at least try to convince her, i don't even remember if she explained her reasons to leave. So that moment showed to me that she was lying the whole time, she used me to get rid of Flemeth and to have access to an Old god's soul, she didn't care about my safety or feelings or even the task.

 

 

@illegitimus

I don't see the two things as totally unrelated like you do.

Morrigan decided to use the warden for her own needs which includes the battle with Flemeth which happened for those lies by omission or do you think that had i knew about the ritual i would have trusted her any longer to the point of risking my life against Flemeth?

 

 

If you brought her to your CE's home, you'd hate her earlier. Morrigan's behavior is the worst.. it's kind of sealed the deal for me, for years now. lol.

[Illegitimus]

 

 

@illegitimus

I don't see the two things as totally unrelated like you do.

Morrigan decided to use the warden for her own needs which includes the battle with Flemeth which happened for those lies by omission or do you think that had i knew about the ritual i would have trusted her any longer to the point of risking my life against Flemeth?

 

 

 

So you hear about the Dark Ritual and the master plan and you are so upset and appalled that you wouldn't dream of fighting the person whose plan and ritual it is?