Passive rage hurts just as much as actual physical rage... we have "freedom of speech" in various contexts but words can cause mental and/or physical damage as well.
I imagine we'll get around to that notion as societies..... someday.
You're not wrong, but what's your point with "cause that's not hurtful or offensive", then?
I believe i can fly
I believe i can touch the sky
I think about it every night and daySpread my wings and fly away.
Uhm. That's nice?
But if you absolutely need objective proof and can't seperate player knowledge and character knowledge then the Robes of Possession found in Flemeth's hut are pretty compelling evidence, as I believe was stated in an earlier post.
That's what you call objective proof?"Robe of possession" means nothing it is just a gameplay name of an item,I don't think Flemeth left a trademark on the dress with her signatureThe dress isn't in any way a rob that serve to possess people.
The name of the robe is not dictated by the Warden's or Morrigan's beliefs but is objective gameplay information, so yes, and I believe I called it "compelling evidence". The name and flavor text of nearly every unique item in the game contains information that the characters can't possibly know but is considered canon and part of the lore nonetheless, and the drain on Willpower is indicative of the robe's purpose both in gameplay and in the text.
The name of the robe is not dictated by the Warden's or Morrigan's beliefs but is objective gameplay information, so yes, and I believe I called it "compelling evidence". The name and flavor text of nearly every unique item in the game contains information that the characters can't possibly know but is considered canon and part of the lore nonetheless, and the drain on Willpower is indicative of the robe's purpose both in gameplay and in the text.
But I have plenty of first hand experience of Morrigan acting cruelly. Not hearsay or rumors, but right in my face.
I don't mind her attitude,the problem i had with Morrigan as a player is the fact that the choices that involve her seem somehow forced onto the player
see how in DAI you can't dismiss her from the Inquisition or how in DAO the narrative was forced for the DR
I don't mind her attitude,the problem i had with Morrigan as a player is the fact that the choices that involve her seem somehow forced onto the player
see how in DAI you can't dismiss her from the Inquisition or how in DAO the narrative was forced for the DR
I wish there had been an option to confront Morrigan about what her real motivations were, and adopt a 'No more of this stepping around the issue - just tell me'. She and Flemeth are obviously up to something, and not confronting either on the issue, is setting yourself up for a massive fall. Basically, it just makes you look like a total fool going along with it, because its Bioware exploiting the fact that nobody is really going to dismiss a party member over this, because they'd be risking content. But leaving her unchallenged and letting her stay, is such a massively foolish move that many player's character simply wouldn't do, if they were roleplaying them as they would in every other circumstance. But again, because its a party member, you feel obliged to go along with it.
What i said here is equally valid for Solas the dude is all nerd at the temple and we aren't allowed to ask him why he know so much.
Gameplay mechanics are not indicative of the lore that's why there is the the word Gameplay/lore segregation because they are not always the same thing.Just becuase i find an item called the sword of Honor that doesn't mean that is made of "honor" or for honor.The dress in Flemeth hut was not meant to possess Morrigan.
"Gameplay and Story Segregation" refers to instances where the gameplay and the story are specifically at odds. They're exceptions, not the rule. Story and gameplay are ordinarily supposed to complement each other in order to draw the same narrative, and when the story implies that Flemeth is a body-stealing monster and you find a piece of armor in her hut the name, flavor text and gameplay mechanics of which all indicate it to be intended to both empower and subdue the wearer for the purposes of possession, that's pretty damn compelling.
Having found a sword called "Sword of Honor", of course you would assume it to have been forged for, used for or dedicated to some honorable purpose. And having read the description of Fade Wall, would you doubt that it is"charged with arcane energy", or that "the user is infused as though otherworldly, but suffers a vague sense of disconnection that is very hard to shake"? Of course not. You obviously don't have a case here.
Having found a sword called "Sword of Honor", of course you would assume it to have been forged for, used for or dedicated to some honorable purpose. And having read the description of Fade Wall, would you doubt that it is"charged with arcane energy", or that "the user is infused as though otherworldly, but suffers a vague sense of disconnection that is very hard to shake"? Of course not. You obviously don't have a case here.
no....pleaseUsing the name of items is for you a proof?So if i found the dagger named rose of thorn than it means that it's made by roses
You're right. I'm sure it's a metaphor that they're called "Robes of Possession" and are both described and proven to drain your will to resist. Nothing at all to do with actual possession. Nu-uh. Obviously not. Perish the thought. It isn't even suspicious, considering the rumors surrounding Flemeth, Morrigan's direct accusations and the fact that we know that Flemeth and Solas and their kind have the power to transfer souls.
You're right. I'm sure it's a metaphor that they're called "Robes of Possession" and are both described and proven to drain your will to resist. Nothing at all to do with actual possession. Nu-uh. Obviously not. Perish the thought. It isn't even suspicious, considering the rumors surrounding Flemeth, Morrigan's direct accusations and the fact that we know that Flemeth and Solas and their kind have the power to transfer souls.
On the issue of the items , i think you have to be careful of literal interpretations.Their visuals and names are just an abstraction to give us the general idea of who people are, and what they look like in the moments that really matter. The logistics of what they are carrying, wearing, wielding, we are just supposed to let slide for context.
With some items, maybe. The Robes of Possession make it perfectly clear what they are and what they're for, no abstracts. I'm not taking anything too literally, I'm just reading the name and the flavor text and summing up the context of its acquisition, all of which thoroughly support the obvious purpose of it.
I don't get why some of you can't stand the idea of Flemeth being amoral. Her being an ancient monster too crazy and intelligent to comprehend who might help or hinder the cause of good for her own purposes is a much cooler and more interesting interpretation than her just being a batty old coot hiding in the swamps giving cryptic but supposedly sage advice and occasionally rescuing the good guys while allowing people to think her evil.
With some items, maybe. The Robes of Possession make it perfectly clear what they are and what they're for, no abstracts. I'm not taking anything too literally, I'm just reading the name and the flavor text and summing up the context of its acquisition, all of which thoroughly support the obvious purpose of it.
I don't get why some of you can't stand the idea of Flemeth being amoral. Her being an ancient monster too crazy and intelligent to comprehend who might help or hinder the cause of good for her own purposes is a much cooler and more interesting interpretation than her just being a batty old coot hiding in the swamps giving cryptic but supposedly sage advice and occasionally rescuing the good guys while allowing people to think her evil.
Old woman who saved your life (and arguably, Ferelden's) vs Cantankerous daughter who disapproves of even the most basic courtesies.
How is this a hard choice?
I don't know....
The robes of possession are not meant to possess Morrigan there are tons of items that lower the will power as side effects.If Morrigan is equpped with those rags she do not become possessed even if Flemeth is not killed which mean that you're simply wrong.I'm not saying that Flemeth is good or bad just saying that the robe of possession are not meant to possess Morrigan which is a fact by now.
The robes are meant to help facilitate Morrigan's possession presuming that she returns home and wears them over time in Flemeth's immediate presence, exactly as the flavor text describes. You obviously have a very revolutionary understanding of the words "simply wrong", "fact" and "evidence", not to mention the concept of causality.
Old woman who saved your life (and arguably, Ferelden's) vs Cantankerous daughter who disapproves of even the most basic courtesies.
How is this a hard choice?
Hmm. Allow our old to grow useless and costly to keep around as well as require awkward and embarrassing social maintenance by their children until finally expiring on their own, or take out the trash, save the economy and fill the streets with nothing but young and healthy faces free of the financial and emotional burdens that used to be their elders. How is that a hard choice?
Oh right, actual decisions don't boil down to one-sided, binary comparisons between things you're hastily assumed to think and favor and things you're hastily assumed not to! Whew. Good thing, that.
Hmm. Allow our old to grow useless and costly to keep around as well as require awkward and embarrassing social maintenance by their children until finally expiring on their own, or take out the trash, save the economy and fill the streets with nothing but young and healthy faces free of the financial and emotional burdens that used to be their elders. How is that a hard choice?
Oh right, actual decisions don't boil down to one-sided, binary comparisons between things you're hastily assumed to think and favor and things you're hastily assumed not to! Whew. Good thing, that.
I must admit that i didn't understood anything of this part of your post.
I must admit that i didn't understood anything of this part of your post.
Straykat summarized the choice of siding with either Flemeth or Morrigan by presenting Flemeth in the best possible light and giving a proportionately one-sided description of Morrigan, ignoring everything relevant that might count for Morrigan or against Flemeth, and then pretended that the choice was a no-brainer.
I then did the same thing to similarly make mass-killing of the elderly sound totally reasonable on the face of it in order to underline that that's not how you actually make important decisions.
The robes of possession are not meant to possess Morrigan there are tons of items that lower the will power as side effects.If Morrigan is equpped with those rags she do not become possessed even if Flemeth is not killed which mean that you're simply wrong.I'm not saying that Flemeth is good or bad just saying that the robe of possession are not meant to possess Morrigan which is a fact by now.
Of course they aren't meant to possess Morrigan. They would just make it easier for Flemeth to possess her.
Of course they aren't meant to possess Morrigan. They would just make it easier for Flemeth to possess her.
Of course not that's just your and ThomasBlaine headcanon, when they are equipped nothing happen at all.
Of course not that's just your and ThomasBlaine headcanon, when they are equipped nothing happen at all.
Flemeth never possessed her daughters which are supposed to be 4 in total(at least for now)
not sure what kind of proof those rags called robe of possession constitutes,they are just an item and if FLemeth wanted she could have possessed Morrigan in DAI but she didn't which mean that she has no interest to do that.
Straykat summarized the choice of siding with either Flemeth or Morrigan by presenting Flemeth in the best possible light and giving a proportionately one-sided description of Morrigan, ignoring everything relevant that might count for Morrigan or against Flemeth, and then pretended that the choice was a no-brainer.
He presented more reasonable arguments for Flemeth than you did with Morrigan...
I think you and Illegitimus are a bit biased toward Morrigan
I think you and Illegitimus are a bit biased toward Morrigan
Plus Flemeth said in DAI that "a soul cannot be force upon the unwilling"Of course not that's just your and ThomasBlaine headcanon, when they are equipped nothing happen at all.
Of course not that's just your and ThomasBlaine headcanon, when they are equipped nothing happen at all.
It's literally what it says in the item description. No headcanon involved.
Flemeth never possessed her daughters which are supposed to be 4 in total(at least for now)
not sure what kind of proof those rags called robe of possession constitutes,they are just an item and if FLemeth wanted she could have possessed Morrigan in DAI but she didn't which mean that she has no interest to do that.
How do you know she never possessed her daughters? And her not possessing Morrigan on the spot in Inquisition doesn't mean that she has no interest in it, it just means that it's not in her interest to do it right then, or that it's something she needs special circumstances to do, such as for example, again, exactly what the Robes of Possession proscribe in the item description.
He presented more reasonable arguments for Flemeth than you did with Morrigan...
I think you and Illegitimus are a bit biased toward Morrigan
It seems more like you guys are so wrapped up in your little "Flemeth is actually a saint and Morrigan is just out to spoil her fun" conspiracy theory to listen to even basic common sense, much less proof, which you demand freely and then ignore while flinging around baseless or downright illogical suppositions yourselves, shamelessly presenting them as facts.
Plus Flemeth said in DAI that "a soul cannot be force upon the unwilling"
Makes sense. Hence the Willpower drain.
Plus Flemeth said in DAI that "a soul cannot be force upon the unwilling"
And she might even be telling the truth. But what of it? First of all, "willingness" is a flexible concept as anyone who finished the Circle quest in Origins or found out what was happening to the Templar-Abominations in Dragon Age II can tell you. You think Flemeth couldn't wear down and trick Morrigan? And even apart from that, when considering whether Morrigan was a liar when asking the Warden to kill Flemeth, the actual facts of the matter are an irrelevance anyway. Whether she was right or not, Morrigan believed what she was saying, her belief was based on the evidence she had at the time, and that conversation confirms that beyond a reasonable doubt.
Of course not that's just your and ThomasBlaine headcanon, when they are equipped nothing happen at all.
Why would anything happen? Flemeth isn't even there.
"The original intent of these robes is clear: a "welcome home" present from Flemeth, designed to sap Morrigan's will and ease the ancient sorceress's possession of her daughter."
How is that headcanon? That's verbatim from the game.
If anything is headcanon, it's "no, the game is lying and i am right".
Retour en haut
