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[ThomasBlaine]

"The original intent of these robes is clear: a "welcome home" present from Flemeth, designed to sap Morrigan's will and ease the ancient sorceress's possession of her daughter."

 

How is that headcanon? That's verbatim from the game.

 

If anything is headcanon, it's "no, the game is lying and i am right".

 

The specific wording makes it sound like that's an interpretation rather than a statement of fact though, which is why I called it evidence and not definitive proof. It implies that the robe "obviously" has this effect, meaning only that there's strong reason to believe that that's its purpose based on an examination of it. An omniscient statement like "This is the robe Morrigan's mother intended to use to possess her." would have been more substantial, but it's still a strong indication.

 

I'm not saying that Flemeth absolutely must be a monster, just that there really is reason to believe so.

[Aren]

"The original intent of these robes is clear: a "welcome home" present from Flemeth, designed to sap Morrigan's will and ease the ancient sorceress's possession of her daughter."

 

How is that headcanon? That's verbatim from the game.

 

If anything is headcanon, it's "no, the game is lying and i am right".

The game codexes or item descriptions are quite often far from the truth

In game descriptions of items are just meant to be a decoration for the game not  a truth I don't even remember how many contrived descriptions i found for many items in DAO.

Morrigan was simply wrong and Yavana made that clear in the silent grove.

[ThomasBlaine]

 

The game codexes or item descriptions are quite often far from the truth

In game descriptions of items are just meant to be a decoration for the game not  a truth I don't even remember how many contrived descriptions i found for many items in DAO.

Morrigan was simply wrong and Yavana made that clear in the silent grove.

 

 

Which codexes or item descriptions, for example? There are some which describe fairy tales, but the one belong to Robes of Possession isn't of that nature.

 

And what exactly does Yavana say that convinces you Morrigan was wrong? Specific wording?

[Domakir]

Morrigan herself said that she was wrong after Flemeth took Urthemiel"s soul. I don't know why this is so complicated to understand or maybe I misunderstood that scene?

[Illegitimus]

Morrigan herself said that she was wrong after Flemeth took Urthemiel"s soul. I don't know why this is so complicated to understand or maybe I misunderstood that scene?

 

Ah but this tangent started with the accusation that Morrigan lied to try to get the Warden to kill Flemeth and a downright absurd claim that Flemeth didn't lie to them.   

[Gaia300]

Old woman who saved your life (and arguably, Ferelden's) vs Cantankerous daughter who disapproves of even the most basic courtesies.


How is this a hard choice?

I don't think Flemeth saved Ferelden, it was simply the narrative who forced you to follw Alistair and her stupid plan to use the treaties instead to go in Orlais and contact the others GW.

[HeliosDisciple]

I don't think Flemeth saved Ferelden, it was simply the narrative who forced you to follw Alistair and her stupid plan to use the treaties instead to go in Orlais and contact the others GW.

 

Riordan says the Orlesian Wardens aren't going to waste their strength fighting Loghain, though. So Orlais would wait until Ferelden was consumed before moving to fight.

[Aren]

Morrigan herself said that she was wrong after Flemeth took Urthemiel"s soul. I don't know why this is so complicated to understand or maybe I misunderstood that scene?

You didn't misunderstood anything even in the silent grove the other daughter state that Morrigan was wrong about that book.

[Aren]

Riordan says the Orlesian Wardens aren't going to waste their strength fighting Loghain, though. So Orlais would wait until Ferelden was consumed before moving to fight.

Which doesn't make much sense because the more time pass the more the blight grow stronger.

I don't think Orlais or the GW had hard times in cross the borders if they wanted to support the nobles who were against Loghain.

[Secret Rare]

Ah but this tangent started with the accusation that Morrigan lied to try to get the Warden to kill Flemeth and a downright absurd claim that Flemeth didn't lie to them.    

Morrigan deceived the warden during the quest of the real grimoire which is also stated in the bloody Toolset.

[Domakir]

Ah but this tangent started with the accusation that Morrigan lied to try to get the Warden to kill Flemeth and a downright absurd claim that Flemeth didn't lie to them.

None of them lied in my opinion. But the difference is that Flemeth knows what she is talking about while Morrigan does not.

[ThomasBlaine]

Morrigan herself said that she was wrong after Flemeth took Urthemiel"s soul. I don't know why this is so complicated to understand or maybe I misunderstood that scene?

 

She said she hadn't understood everything. Nothing in the preceding conversation indicates that Flemeth hasn't raised and treated the other daughters the same way she raised and treated Morrigan, except with the intention of actually obtaining their bodies rather than the old god soul. And it definitely confirms that she bred Morrigan to be a cynical, friendless (b/w)itch for the exact purpose of whoring her out, using her as an incubator and stealing her child all the while bearing Morrigan herself no ill will. Yeah, totally not the plan of an amoral monster.

 

Which doesn't make much sense because the more time pass the more the blight grow stronger.

I don't think Orlais or the GW had hard times in cross the borders if they wanted to support the nobles who were against Loghain.

 

The Empress was most likely waiting for the Blight to destabilize Ferelden thoroughly enough for them to retake the territory after the possibility of a peaceful takeover through marriage with Cailan fell through, and the First Warden has everything to gain from making an example of a pretty inconsequential country to show what happens when you don't support your Grey Wardens properly just because it's been a little longer than usual between Blights. 

 

Ferelden is pretty sparsely populated and surrounded by sea on three sides, and the political situation and lack of Wardens made it obvious that the country was going to collapse relatively quickly. I don't blame the other nations for believing that the Blight could be contained there for a while so much as being willing to actually let it happen. And yes, they could definitely have crossed the border if they decided to.

 

Doing so forcefully would have marked them as intruders though, and made it so much harder to justify "staying over" after the Blight as other countries would see it as Orlais overtly taking advantage of the crisis, a dangerous and provocative precedent to set. Waiting for the situation to become desperate enough for Ferelden to either ask for the help or just be happy to be rescued would have given them a much stronger pretext for taking suspiciously long with the clean-up.

 

Of course, it's entirely possible that if Loghain hadn't made those efforts to secure the border Orlais really would have invaded with their Wardens.

[Domakir]

She said she hadn't understood everything. Nothing in the preceding conversation indicates that Flemeth hasn't raised and treated the other daughters the same way she raised and treated Morrigan, except with the intention of actually obtaining their bodies rather than the old god soul. And it definitely confirms that she bred Morrigan to be a cynical, friendless (b/w)itch for the exact purpose of whoring her out, using her as an incubator and stealing her child all the while bearing Morrigan herself no ill will. Yeah, totally not the plan of an amoral monster.

And I dind't said otherwise. It's a fact that Flemeth is a terrible mother. All I said is that Morrigan was wrong and she realized in that scene. And I don't know about you but I trust Flemth/Mythal more than Morrigan who plays with knowledge she obviously doesn't understand.

[ThomasBlaine]

And I dind't said otherwise. It's a fact that Flemeth is a terrible mother. All I said is that Morrigan was wrong and she realized in that scene. And I don't know about you but I trust Flemth/Mythal more than Morrigan who plays with knowledge she obviously doesn't understand.

 

All Morrigan was mistaken about was Flemeth's intentions and connection to Mythal. How exactly does she play with knowledge she doesn't understand?

 

I'm not denying that Flemeth is better at planning and positioning things for the future than Morrigan, being nigh-omniscient, but that doesn't mean she ultimately has the world's best interests at heart. In fact her goal appears to be.... avenging it. Along with a goddess. By whatever means necessary. Yeah. I'm not touching that with a triple-length partizan.

[Illegitimus]

Morrigan deceived the warden during the quest of the real grimoire which is also stated in the bloody Toolset.

 

She lies if you press the issue of what Flemeth's plan was in sending you.  Big deal.  Alistair tells a lie.  Wynne tells a lie.  Leliana tells a couple of lies.  Flemeth has them all beat.  

[Gaia300]

Alistair ,Leliana and Wynne don't reveal a part of their past until good approval which is fair but they did not had any secret agenda which mean that their situation is very different from Morrigan.
Alistair was also decieved into believing that his mother was an human and that he had a sister, he know nothing about Maric.

[Secret Rare]

She lies if you press the issue of what Flemeth's plan was in sending you. Big deal. Alistair tells a lie. Wynne tells a lie. Leliana tells a couple of lies. Flemeth has them all beat.

It is not a press the issue button but just a legitimate question that she Dodge with a
lie while asking me to fight the High dragon for her.
Ali,Wynne and Leli during their personal quest are being honest while Morrigan isn't.

Morrigan is dishonest until the very end she even attempt at using manipulation.

[HeliosDisciple]

Alistair was also decieved into believing that his mother was an human and that he had a sister, he know nothing about Maric.

 

....ok, what? Goldanna's not his sister?

[Illegitimus]

Alistair ,Leliana and Wynne don't reveal a part of their past until good approval which is fair but they did not had any secret agenda which mean that their situation is very different from Morrigan.
Alistair was also decieved into believing that his mother was an human and that he had a sister, he know nothing about Maric.

 

Flemeth had a secret agenda.  In fact doubtless more than the one which which she gave to Morrigan.  (And no matter how much Leliana likes you she'll never tell you the reason why she isn't worried about the Orlesians being after her.)

[Gaia300]

....ok, what? Goldanna's not his sister?

Oh you did not know...

His mother is an elf which mean that Goldanna is not his sister

[Gaia300]

Flemeth had a secret agenda.  In fact doubtless more than the one which which she gave to Morrigan.  (And no matter how much Leliana likes you she'll never tell you the reason why she isn't worried about the Orlesians being after her.)

Is not Orlais that is hunting Leliana is only Marjolaine.

 

Leliana said that Marjolaine is after her for something they did when they were bards and that's why she tried to abandoned that life

Those are all past events there is no secret agenda from this character in the story of DAO,not sure where is the lie or why she is comparable to the sitaution of Morrigan?

[ThomasBlaine]

 

Is not Orlais that is hunting Leliana is only Marjolaine.

 

Leliana said that Marjolaine is after her for something they did when they were bards and that's why she tried to abandoned that life

Those are all past events there is no secret agenda from this character in the story of DAO,not sure where is the lie or why she is comparable to the sitaution of Morrigan?

 

 

"The maker has spoken to me, you have to take me with you."

 

Not a very dangerous lie looked upon with modern eyes, but if you're someone who actually believes in an all-mighty and all-knowing higher power and occasionally cried yourself to sleep as a child having been told that he abandoned "you" because "you" killed the bravest and strongest and wisest woman in the world?

 

I have serious doubt that anything Leliana says about her motivations in Origins is true. Her ditzy and eccentric behavior doesn't carry over to DAII or Inquisition where she's as sane as anyone and quite a bit more pragmatic and ruthless. There's an argument to be made that it's an act and that she's on an extended mission for Mother Dorothea, whom she runs back to immediately after the Blight is over and who appoints her "Right Hand of the Divine" at her own ascension just a few years later, Leliana being spotted working as a Seeker during the same year the Archdemon is slain. The pendant she's carrying in Lothering being called "Seeker's Circle" would seem suspicious too, but its description vaguely makes it out to be more or less common within the Chantry.

 

Also, you know, former murderer. And femme fatale. For hire. So, assassin, murderous prostitute and religious zealot. Nobody is clean I guess. Except for Alistair. He's just too young and dumb to have a proper Past.

[Illegitimus]

 

Is not Orlais that is hunting Leliana is only Marjolaine.

 

Leliana said that Marjolaine is after her for something they did when they were bards and that's why she tried to abandoned that life

Those are all past events there is no secret agenda from this character in the story of DAO,not sure where is the lie or why she is comparable to the sitaution of Morrigan?

 

 

IF Leliana's story about her past had been the truth, then she seriously would have to worry about the Orlesians being after her because she was a traitor to Orlais who broke out of prison.  The reason why she knows it's Marjolaine and not the Orlesian crown after her, is because her story was a lie.  She never escaped Orlesian prison because she was never in Orlesian prison because Marjolaine never denounced her to the Orlesian authorities.  As she comes to like you more she'll come closer to the real story of her background, but she'll never actually tell you more than half the truth.  In the main game at least.  

 

And note, this is a lie that she tells you even as she asks you to help her against her mentor who she now fears.  Remind you of anyone?  

[HeliosDisciple]

Oh you did not know...

His mother is an elf which mean that Goldanna is not his sister

 

Is this in the game somewhere? I've only played Origins.

[Illegitimus]

Is this in the game somewhere? I've only played Origins.

 

Nah you have to read the books for that.  However it does explain why Goldanna was told that her mother died in childbirth and the child with her, and she was promptly booted out of the keep and left to make her way on her own as opposed to keeping her there as a servant/caretaker for her half-brother.  But this has nothing to do with anything.