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[Danny Boy 7]

You're mixing Ben-Hassrath and Tamassaran. the former are secret police/priests, the latter are the priest/caretaker of young qunari. They also appear to have sex with anyone demanding it (which seems strange, I would have seen them arranging mating between good potential partners instead of doing the act themselves), but it makes them kind of worshippers of ancient Goddesses/Gods of pleasure (in our Antiquity, we had some in Mesopotamia, and even Greece at some point, if I'm not mistaken) and I can go with that, since here the Goddess/God is replaced by her duty to the Qun.

 

But I digress.

 

For a warrior, I would like (if it isn't the case for our protagonist) for him to have been born in an Altus but without magical power, so he would have been disowned by his family when this fact became clear and sent to military camps to be trained there. It would add insight into the higher spheres of Tevinter without the rose-tinged glasses that even a mage like Dorian posses, and could actually provide a sort of more radical change (with possible a follower supporting the statu quo, one from Dorian's faction of reforms but not revolution, and this warrior advocating for deep change, quickly).

I don't think I am, unless Rasaan from the comic was a Ben Hassrath, but I recall them calling her a Tamassran. Then again it was less of an interrogation and more of a CONVERT HEATHEN! type of situation.

[Kurogane335]

You're right, I had forgotten about Rasaan. Apparently she is a Ben-Hassrath and a Tamassran, since she was groomed to become the Ariqun successor... I don't know why, i thought that the Ben-Hassrath where clearly distinct from the Tamassran.

[Danny Boy 7]

You're right, I had forgotten about Rasaan. Apparently she is a Ben-Hassrath and a Tamassran, since she was groomed to become the Ariqun successor... I don't know why, i thought that the Ben-Hassrath where clearly distinct from the Tamassran.

Might just be that the Ariqun, Arishok and Arigena (sp) are all supposed to be able to do every job in their respective branch?

[Kurogane335]

Don't know. Since they are leaders of very vast groups (especially the Arigena, in fact) I don't think so. I guess there could be a lot of differences between two Arishok : on more directly martial and one more adept at strategy, and it would change the way the Antaam acts. But let's not derail this thread further !

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You're mixing Ben-Hassrath and Tamassaran. the former are secret police/priests, the latter are the priest/caretaker of young qunari. They also appear to have sex with anyone demanding it (which seems strange, I would have seen them arranging mating between good potential partners instead of doing the act themselves)

It used to be that way, with the Qunari only having sex for reproductive purposes and the Tamassrans arranging the pairings.

But then Bioware retconned it to the Qun having sex with a Tamassran sex slave whenever the mood strikes them. 

[Hexxagone]

Tamassrans are not sex slaves.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Tamassrans are not sex slaves.

They are forced into their roles, and one of those roles is to have their bodies be used for the sexual relief of other Qunari. So yes, they are sex slaves. 

[Hexxagone]

As opposed to what? a doctor who is forced into their role and uses their hands to save people he doesn't care for? or a baker forced to their role, making endless bread for the rest of his life?

 

They would all be "slaves" then. A slave has no choice and is owned by a master. Everyone in the Qun is there by choice and serve the community. If they don't like it they can leave and be Tal-Vassoth.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As opposed to what? a doctor who is forced into their role and uses their hands to save people he doesn't care for? or a baker forced to their role, making endless bread for the rest of his life?

 

They would all be "slaves" then. A slave has no choice and is owned by a master. Everyone in the Qun is there by choice and serve the community. If they don't like it they can leave and be Tal-Vassoth.

Yes, the people under the Qun are slaves. They are forced in their roles with no input on their part, and any resistance is met with punishment, brainwashing, and even death. They aren't there by choice. Being born into something is not a choice. And no, they can't just leave since the entire continent they are on is owned by the Qun. The only people under the Qun who even have a shot at being able to run away are those who live in Thedas, like those in the Qun-occupied part of Rivain and Seheron, or those that serve in Thedas, like those who are Ben-Hassrath or part of the Ataam. 

[Kurogane335]

Yes, the people under the Qun are slaves. They are forced in their roles with no input on their part, and any resistance is met with punishment, brainwashing, and even death. They aren't there by choice. Being born into something is not a choice. And no, they can't just leave since the entire continent they are on is owned by the Qun. The only people under the Qun who even have a shot at being able to run away are those who live in Thedas, like those in the Qun-occupied part of Rivain and Seheron, or those that serve in Thedas, like those who are Ben-Hassrath or part of the Ataam. 

No they are not. Firstly because the Qunari see sex without the purpose of reproduction more as an addiction/sickness than anything, so they see the Tamassrans as healers in that aspects. Furthermore, there was priestess who also had sex with worshippers of their Goddess in our Antiquity and while they were dubbed "wh.re" afterwards, it was not the case during the time those practices existed. Furthermore, the Qunari aren't slaves, because by your definition anyone in Thedas would be slave : the nobles are born nobles and they can't cease to be and not live incredibly shitty lives is to leave their nation. That's the same concept as Tal-Vashoth.

 

And the young Qunari are educated into seeing the world as the Qun require.... just like we are taught that Free Market is good, the less power to the State the better, etc. In both case, there isn't brainwash involved. And I highly doubt that the Tamassrans actually force someone into a role, because it would be the better way to make Tal-Vashoth, and it would have been pointed out for a long time already. It is also clear that even in the same role, characters are still prevalent : the Tamassran who educated Sten and the one who educated Bull had very different conception about how to educate the children in their care, and even then, the strictest of the Tamassran would still need to gauge out her kids, to see their temperament and who would fill what role, etc. For what we have learn so far, the way the Tamassran deal with the Imekari is general teachings in everything a Qunari should know until the age of 12, with probably the possibility for each child once he or she begin to show some predisposition for certain activities (which probably require them trying a little bit of all) a cursus more centred around said activities.

 

But in the end, it is the choices of the Imekari, his tastes and interests which will define what his role will be, more so than the Tamassran who educate him. The Tama will simply ingrain in her pupils the teachings of the Qun, like teachers and parents instil their values in young children.

[Hexxagone]

Hanako makes it sound like the Tamassrans have a girl chained up and freely used by a line of waiting Qunari. Qunari don't have sex on a regular basis like we do, so every once in a while when a Qunari needs release, one of the 1000s of Tamassrans that are willing or "in the mood" would volunteer to take care of him.

 

Its not like a Qunari shows up, points at one and tells her to bend over. Tamassrans are powerful and respected members of society, they don't get bossed around, and are WILLING to preform their duties. That is not a slave.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hanako makes it sound like the Tamassrans have a girl chained up and freely used by a line of waiting Qunari. Qunari don't have sex on a regular basis like we do, so every once in a while when a Qunari needs release, one of the 1000s of Tamassrans that are willing or "in the mood" would volunteer to take care of him.

No, that's just you making a strawman. Not all sex slaves are chained up. Just look at all the forced prostitutes around the world whom are sex slaves. 

 

Its not like a Qunari shows up, points at one and tells her to bend over. Tamassrans are powerful and respected members of society, they don't get bossed around, and are WILLING to preform their duties. That is not a slave.

So were concubines, yet concubines were still sex slaves. 

[Hexxagone]

you have failed to make any counterarguments on how a Tamassran is a sex slave by anything other than your modern day interpretation of one.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

you have failed to make any counterarguments on how a Tamassran is a sex slave by anything other than your modern day interpretation of one.

Yes I have. 

Roles in the Qun are assigned, not chosen, thus the individual is being forced into that role. 

One of the roles as a Tamassran is to "grant sexual relief to Qunari in need" for the state, thus the individual is forced to do that. 

A sex slave is "A person who is forced into being available for sex", thus the individual is a sex slave. 

[Hexxagone]

A sex slave has no choice when sex is demanded, a Tamassran doesn't do anything she doesn't want to do. Any sexual healing would be done by willing and consenting individuals and some Tamassrans could go their entire lives without any sexual work. Just because it is part of their job doesn't mean they are forced to do it. That is not a sex slave.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

A sex slave has no choice when sex is demanded, a Tamassran doesn't do anything she doesn't want to do. Any sexual healing would be done by willing and consenting individuals and some Tamassrans could go their entire lives without any sexual work. Just because it is part of their job doesn't mean they are forced to do it. That is not a sex slave.

Yes, the fact that it is a part of their job means they are forced to do it. When a Qunari is suffering sexual frustration, the Qun demands a Tamassran use their body to grant relief to that Qunari. That is state-sponsored prostitution, which is a type of sex slavery. You know what happens to members of the Qun who don't do what they are supposed to? They get "reeducated". If they continue to disobey after that, they are turned into mindless laborers.

[Hexxagone]

You are generalizing all sex work as "forced" 

 

A prostitute is not a sex slave, a porn star is not a sex slave.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You are generalizing all sex work as "forced" which makes you sound stupid. A woman that willingly becomes a prostitute is not a sex slave.

There you go with the strawman again. Did I ever say all prostitutes are sex slaves? The answer is no, I did not. I said state-sponsored prostitution is a form of sex slavery. Since you don't know what that is, it's when a state(nation/tribe/etc) gathers a bunch of women and forces them to serve as sexual relief for for example the state's military forces. This has happened for millennia.

[Hexxagone]

So what you think happens is a Qunari shows up and tells a Tamassran to bend over and she must comply, no questions asked?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So what you think happens is a Qunari shows up and tells a Tamassran to bend over and she must comply, no questions asked?

Inquisitor: "Qunari don't have sex?"

The Iron Bull: "Oh, we definitely have sex. There are Tamassrans who pop your cork whenever you need it." 

Inquisitor: "Seriously?"

The Iron Bull: "Yes. It's not a big deal like it is here. It's like...I don't know, going to see a healer? Sometimes it's this long involved thing. It takes all day, leaves you walking funny...Other times, you're in and out in five minutes. (clicks tongue.) 'Thank you. See you next week.'"

 

So yes, according to our source that's what happens. 

[Hexxagone]

From that conversation you got "I show up, point at any Tamassran and take her no questions asked"

[Hanako Ikezawa]

From that conversation you got "I show up, point at any Tamassran and take her no questions asked"

Combined with the other stuff we know about the Qun, yes. 

 

Your turn. Provide solid evidence that they can refuse that role with no repercussions. 

[Hexxagone]

My evidence is what you posted "There are Tamassrans who pop your cork whenever you need it"

 

THERE ARE

 

THERE ARE strippers that will have sex with you

 

THERE ARE porn stars that do anal scenes

 

THERE ARE Tamassrans that will pop your cork whenever you need it

 

He doesnt say, "Tamassrans pop your cork whenever you need it" he says "THERE ARE Tamasrans who pop your cork when you need it"

 

Not all of them do it, do you get what those words mean? Not all Tamasrans do sex work. The ones that provide it, do it willingly. That does not make them sex slaves.  The evidence given in the game disproves whatever point you thought you had.

 

Do you get it now? or do I need to post an Illusive Man faceplam picture

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My evidence is what you posted "There are Tamassrans who pop your cork whenever you need it"

 

THERE ARE

 

THERE ARE strippers that will have sex with you

 

THERE ARE porn stars that do anal scenes

 

THERE ARE Tamassrans that will pop your cork whenever you need it

 

He doesnt say, "Tamassrans pop your cork whenever you need it" he says "THERE ARE Tamasrans who pop your cork when you need it"

 

Not all of them do it, do you get what those words mean? Not all Tamasrans do sex work. The ones that provide it, do it willingly. That does not make them sex slaves.  The evidence given in the game disproves whatever point you thought you had.

 

Do you get it now? or do I need to post an Illusive Man faceplam picture

So your defense is that only some are sex slaves? That's so much better. 

I'm still waiting on you to provide solid evidence that if a Qunari comes to a Tamassran for sexual relief, that Tamassran can refuse without any negative repercussions.

[Hexxagone]

I already told you but you keep going back to "but but but, they are sex slaves because I said so"

Im not going to bother with you anymore.