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[Cyrus Amell]

Sebastien is a Prince, Anders is an Abomination.

 

Who do you think offers more benefits and less negatives if you side with them?

 

Sebastien is right, and I believe Anders agrees with him on a fundamental level: the Grand Cleric deserves justice. 

 

I believe a conversation Anders has with Isabela sums it up:

 

Anders: There is justice in the world.

Isabela: Is there? You want to free the mages. Let's say you do, but to get there, you kill a bunch of innocent people.

Isabela: What about them? Don't they then deserve justice?

Anders: Yes.

Isabela: And then what? Where does it end?

Isabela: It's like a bar brawl. People are continuously pulled into the fray, and nobody remembers why it started.

Isabela: Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world.

[Catilina]

A blackmailer Prince, who up to the misused of power, breach of a lot of innocent people.
He's not an abomination?

[Cyrus Amell]

A blackmailer Prince, who had made the misused of power, breach of a lot of innocent people.
He's not an abomination?

 

Um, I don't quite understand. If you are referring to Sebastien attacking Kirkwall then I suppose that is unfortunate.

 

But what else was a devout Born Again Andrastien supposed to do exactly? He thought Anders was still in Kirkwall and he went to get him. The war that Anders knowingly starts causes far more chaos and carnage and happens no matter what you do. But at least you can stay Sebastien's hand.

 

And really, do you honestly think that shoving a knife into Anders' back is going to permanently kill him? If so desired by the powers that be in Bioware, he shall be resurrected or some such nonesense if so required. (Looking at you Leliana and Morrigan)

[Catilina]

Um, I don't quite understand. If you are referring to Sebastien attacking Kirkwall then I suppose that is unfortunate.

 

But what else was a devout Born Again Andrastien supposed to do exactly? He thought Anders was still in Kirkwall and he went to get him. The war that Anders knowingly starts causes far more chaos and carnage and happens no matter what you do. But at least you can stay Sebastien's hand.  

 

Why? He thinks Anders stupid? Why do not  he send spies instead an attack? What makes Sebastian think that Kirkwall help hiding to Anders?

[Cyrus Amell]

I won't make excuses for the man - there is no point. 

 

We are weighing the positives and negatives of not shoving a knife into Anders' back. I originally let him live because I had hoped to see him in Inquisition. But he was a complete no show whilst we fixed his mess. For that alone, he deserves the blade. 

[Catilina]

I won't make excuses for the man - there is no point. 

 

We are weighing the positives and negatives of not shoving a knife into Anders' back. I originally let him live because I had hoped to see him in Inquisition. But he was a complete no show whilst we fixed his mess. For that alone, he deserves the blade. 

The question is not whether he deserves it or not. The question is whether you can ask a friend to execute someone out with their own hands. Why did not he kill him? It would have been so dirty work? 

[Cyrus Amell]

The question is not whether he deserves it or not. The question is whether you can ask a friend to execute someone out with their own hands. Why did not he kill him? It would have been so dirty work? 

 

The choice was Hawke's to make, both Orsino and Meredith bequeathed him or her that duty. He or she was the Champion of Kirkwall - their city, their call. 

 

Why didn't Alistair just cut Loghain down at the Landsmeet if he was so against him living? Not the the smartest line of inquiry you can see. 

[Catilina]

Hawke was the Champion of Kirkwall, not the Executioner of Kirkwall.

Alistair killed Loghain with his own hands, if the warden refused.

 

(Trench warfare. How long will we continue? )

[Cyrus Amell]

Until Solas grows hair of course. 

[Obadiah]

If it were possible to arrest and put Anders on trial I'd do that, but we can't, and I think it's pretty obvious what the verdict and punishment would be - so I usually execute Anders.

[AnimalBoy]

I'm always of the mind that a lot of people take these games too seriously and put too much thought into their decisions like it's a real life situation  so when i make my decision on this it's very simple. I like Anders more, i always support mages and i had no problem with Anders solution so i side with Anders, tell him to stay with me and tell Sebastian to take a hike. End of story.

[vertigomez]

I'm always of the mind that a lot of people take these games too seriously and put too much thought into their decisions like it's a real life situation  so when i make my decision on this it's very simple. I like Anders more, i always support mages and i had no problem with Anders solution so i side with Anders, tell him to stay with me and tell Sebastian to take a hike. End of story.

Would that it were so easy! Even if I was making the decision from my own point of view (and not Hawke's), I appreciate both characters and they both get on my nerves, I support the mages but not without reservations, and I have a problem with the bombing. So... not so easy, for me.

[Lady Artifice]

Um, I don't quite understand. If you are referring to Sebastien attacking Kirkwall then I suppose that is unfortunate.

 

But what else was a devout Born Again Andrastien supposed to do exactly? He thought Anders was still in Kirkwall and he went to get him. The war that Anders knowingly starts causes far more chaos and carnage and happens no matter what you do. But at least you can stay Sebastien's hand.

 

And really, do you honestly think that shoving a knife into Anders' back is going to permanently kill him? If so desired by the powers that be in Bioware, he shall be resurrected or some such nonesense if so required. (Looking at you Leliana and Morrigan)

 

 

I think one of the Devs went on record saying that if you knife Anders, he's gone, but Justice might be another story. 

[vertigomez]

I think one of the Devs went on record saying that if you knife Anders, he's gone, but Justice might be another story.

I may or may not have read a fic where

Spoiler

left-in-the-Fade Hawke ran into Justice after having killed Anders.

[SgtSteel91]

I may or may not have read a fic where

Spoiler

left-in-the-Fade Hawke ran into Justice after having killed Anders.

 

That sounds like an interesting read. Do you have a link to it?

[vertigomez]

That sounds like an interesting read. Do you have a link to it?

Here it is. There's some Hawke/Fenris schmoop sprinkled throughout, but even if that's not your bag it's a fascinating character study with a frighteningly in-character take on the denizens of the Fade...

[Cyrus Amell]

I think one of the Devs went on record saying that if you knife Anders, he's gone, but Justice might be another story. 

 

If they are bringing back one of the two, it may still be better to knife Anders. Whilst alive, he was an abomination who at the end regretted taking a spirit into his body and wished to free Justice. Perhaps through his death Justice can transcend his drive for vengeance and regain his former identity. Otherwise we may just be prolonging both their suffering. 

[Lady Artifice]

If they are bringing back one of the two, it may still be better to knife Anders. Whilst alive, he was an abomination who at the end regretted taking a spirit into his body and wished to free Justice. Perhaps through his death Justice can transcend his drive for vengeance and regain his former identity. Otherwise we may just be prolonging both their suffering. 

 

 

Indeed. That's the punishment I chose for him. 

[robertmarilyn]

I'm always of the mind that a lot of people take these games too seriously and put too much thought into their decisions like it's a real life situation  so when i make my decision on this it's very simple. I like Anders more, i always support mages and i had no problem with Anders solution so i side with Anders, tell him to stay with me and tell Sebastian to take a hike. End of story.

 

I DO have a problem with Anders solution but I feel the same about everything else you said. We were given so little choice to do things differently (like try to talk to Anders about what he was doing, before he did it) that I opt to react to the situation this way, rather than do anything Seb wants me to do. 

[vertigomez]

I just replayed the Leliana mission (Faith, I think?) with Anders and Sebastian in the party. Ominous comments, lol. Sebastian first dismissed the rebellion as a "handful of apostates" in front of Leli but after she left he said they were out of control. Make up your mind brah! And then there was this,

Leliana: If [Kirkwall] falls to magic, none of us are safe.
Anders: (closeup shot) None of you.

Aw snap.

[Krypplingz]

I just replayed the Leliana mission (Faith, I think?) with Anders and Sebastian in the party. Ominous comments, lol. Sebastian first dismissed the rebellion as a "handful of apostates" in front of Leli but after she left he said they were out of control. Make up your mind brah! And then there was this,
-snip-

He has made up his mind. He doesn't want an Exalted March, thus he tries to downplay the problem to the agent of the Divine who's supposed to help decide whether an Exalted March is needed. Then once the agent is gone, he turns to his friends and says "Guys, this is getting serious. The Divine is thinking of Marchin' this place, we've got to get the situation under control".

Yes these mages are out of control, but declaring Kirkwall's mages an enemy of the Chantry and having an army march through Kirkwall in a open war against the mages is only going to make things worse. 

 

Longer version.

Spoiler

Like if you were in a boarding school were candies were forbidden. Now a lot of kids in the school like candy and some have a little stash under their pillows for the occasional midnight munchies. Most people are discreet about it, but a couple of idiots get caught in the consumption by the hall patrols. 

So the principles assistant comes to check the situation out and see if a full raid of checking under pillows, bed and inside drawers is needed. You belong to the "Reasonably reliable" group of people, so the principles assistant asks your group if a raid is needed.

 

Now you personally have no candy under your pillow (since it will melt) but you do enjoy to flip through a magazine about birds, which is also on the "forbidden list" in the school. While you wouldn't mind the candy being removed, you would miss your magazines. So you would probably try to persuade the principles assistant not to raid the place, lest they take your magazines.  So you would try to convince them that it was probably just one or two students and they can be talked to about their habits. 

Then once the assistant is gone, you have a bit of a panic and try to get your group into convincing the other students to either stop eating candy in the night, or at least hide their candy eating habits better. Because few like having their drawers shuffled through by strangers. And there will be more things taken if the place is raided. 

 

So in his case the mages are the candy and the bird magazine are innocent people who might perish trying to protect their more magically gifted friends and family. And the fact that very few enjoy having a small army trample through their city, even if they themselves aren't the targets. 

Or that's how I see it. 

 

And the most scientific, emotional and reliable method of picking who to side with is: Flip a coin. Heads for Anders, Tails for Sebastian 

[Jaison1986]

Would that it were so easy! Even if I was making the decision from my own point of view (and not Hawke's), I appreciate both characters and they both get on my nerves, I support the mages but not without reservations, and I have a problem with the bombing. So... not so easy, for me.

 

I think BW failed to give a more emotional impact to Anders actions or a sense of destruction to the whole situation. We never see civilians being harmed by collateral damage of the explosion, only a quick glance of buildings being set on fire. All the destruction we see is of the Chantry going kaboom, and if someone hates the chantry for the stuff that they do, then why would they care if a bunch of templars and priests are vaporized?

 

I spared Anders. I did not cared about justice for Elthina. She was weak and incompetent, and her death was a result of her failure to do her job and control Meredith. The only ones that I suppose deserve justice are the civilians that aparently were killed by the flying debris. But like I said before, BW didn't bother to show that kind of impact resulted from Anders actions. And I was ultimately indifferent about the whole affair. I wouldn't pat Anders on the head for what he did, but I also wouldn't get angry about the people he killed. When it came to his fate, I stayed neutral, and told Anders to **** off. Sebastian temper tautrum did nothing but bother me. He was being Alistair 2.0, and I have no patience for crybabies.

[Onewomanarmy]

I think BW failed to give a more emotional impact to Anders actions or a sense of destruction to the whole situation. We never see civilians being harmed by collateral damage of the explosion, only a quick glance of buildings being set on fire. All the destruction we see is of the Chantry going kaboom, and if someone hates the chantry for the stuff that they do, then why would they care if a bunch of templars and priests are vaporized?

I spared Anders. I did not cared about justice for Elthina. She was weak and incompetent, and her death was a result of her failure to do her job and control Meredith. The only ones that I suppose deserve justice are the civilians that aparently were killed by the flying debris. But like I said before, BW didn't bother to show that kind of impact resulted from Anders actions. And I was ultimately indifferent about the whole affair. I wouldn't pat Anders on the head for what he did, but I also wouldn't get angry about the people he killed. When it came to his fate, I stayed neutral, and told Anders to **** off. Sebastian temper tautrum did nothing but bother me. He was being Alistair 2.0, and I have no patience for crybabies.

I completely agree.

Furthermore, that's an incredibly handsome avi you got there, I assume it's your character for Inquisition or DA2, very nicely made! xD

[Catilina]

I think BW failed to give a more emotional impact to Anders actions or a sense of destruction to the whole situation. We never see civilians being harmed by collateral damage of the explosion, only a quick glance of buildings being set on fire. All the destruction we see is of the Chantry going kaboom, and if someone hates the chantry for the stuff that they do, then why would they care if a bunch of templars and priests are vaporized?

 

I spared Anders. I did not cared about justice for Elthina. She was weak and incompetent, and her death was a result of her failure to do her job and control Meredith. The only ones that I suppose deserve justice are the civilians that aparently were killed by the flying debris. But like I said before, BW didn't bother to show that kind of impact resulted from Anders actions. And I was ultimately indifferent about the whole affair. I wouldn't pat Anders on the head for what he did, but I also wouldn't get angry about the people he killed. When it came to his fate, I stayed neutral, and told Anders to **** off. Sebastian temper tautrum did nothing but bother me. He was being Alistair 2.0, and I have no patience for crybabies.

Alistair killed Loghain with his own hand, if the warden refused his ask. Sebastian do not do it with Anders, only blackmailed Hawke. This is a different.

[Cyrus Amell]

Alistair killed Loghain with his own hand, if the warden refused his ask. Sebastian do not do it with Anders, only blackmailed Hawke. This is a different.

 

Alistair does not kill Loghain unless he is the one fighting the duel, then he promptly executes him. If the Warden or anyone else fights Loghain then it is the Warden who decides Loghain's fate.

 

At absolutely no point does Alistair kill Loghain if the Warden refuses, unless there is some diplomatic mishap that happens that I am unaware of.