161 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Hey I'm not dissing the pause and play design it has its uses. I meant the combat gameplay in Dragon Age is inferior and needs improvement. They are pause-&-play designs that are out there Splinter Cell: Blacklist has a weapon screen that pauses to allow you select weapons and h2h selection to buy you time while in combat, AC3 has the same thing with the weapon system selection.

Merely that you can pause the game is not the same thing.

Can you select targets while paused? Move the camera? Give commands (which will be executed automatically when you unpause)?

Or does all of your actual interaction with the world need to happen in real time?

If it's all real time, then it's an action game.

I'm still annoyed that ME requires movement commands be given in real time.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I meant rp as an acronym for roleplay, I did some roleplaying in the game. Hope this answers you question.

But did you engage in any gameplay that involved no roleplaying?

It should be possible to RP the entire game. It is, after all, an RPG.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

There are a hundred things I'd rather do than play a God of War game. Notably, my way of dealing with this is to refrain from playing GoW games.

I'll grant that the animations in DAO are clunky and dated, but the gameplay is great. I think you misunderstand that it's not a failing of the gameplay systems, it's the nature of gameplay genre. If you don't like it - I guess play something else?


What on earth does this even mean? What do you characterize as the "RP part" of the game? The branching dialogue paths?

Seriously - again - just play that instead of DA, then. Or stick to Mass Effect, since apparently action games are your preferred thing.

Let's take this slow. I'm saying that they could've done a whole lot better with Dragon Age gameplay if they just focus on their weak points so they can fix where it broken and put creativity into them. Don't give me wrong Dragon Age has good plots and characters to boot and all but the game has no balance by having poor gameplay and the level designs are pretty dull. And God of War is one of the best combat designs I've ever played and more satisfying so you really missing out a lot. BioWare can learn a lot from God of War about their combat mechanics for warrior class, some Assassin's Creed for rogue and magic from GoW and Mass for mages, it can be a whole lot more fun to enjoy gameplay, the story, and character development altogether if they just have balance of all three.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

But did you engage in any gameplay that involved no roleplaying?

It should be possible to RP the entire game. It is, after all, an RPG.

Yes and it doesn't matter to me if the game has little roleplay. As long as I'm playing a good game.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Merely that you can pause the game is not the same thing.

Can you select targets while paused? Move the camera? Give commands (which will be executed automatically when you unpause)?

Or does all of your actual interaction with the world need to happen in real time?

If it's all real time, then it's an action game.

I'm still annoyed that ME requires movement commands be given in real time.

As I said before it has its uses so why not have both? They have pause & play in SOCOM series to pause the game with the TCM (Team Command Menu) to give orders to SEAL team members during gameplay and real time combat as well as Fallout series with VATS.

[FKA_Servo]

Let's take this slow. I'm saying that they could've done a whole lot better with Dragon Age gameplay if they just focus on their weak points so they can fix where it broken and put creativity into them. Don't give me wrong Dragon Age has good plots and characters to boot and all but the game has no balance by having poor gameplay and the level designs are pretty dull. And God of War is one of the best combat designs I've ever played and more satisfying so you really missing out a lot.

 

I played the first God of War game when it was released. It was fine. It doesn't have much to offer after one playthough though. I understand that FIFA '15 was a very well-received game, too. I have no interest in playing it, and I don't think I'm missing out.

 

BioWare can learn a lot from God of War about their combat mechanics for warrior class, some Assassin's Creed for rogue and magic from GoW and Mass for mages, it can be a whole lot more fun to enjoy gameplay, the story, and character development altogether if they just have balance of all three.

 

This doesn't make any sense. How would you reconcile the combo heavy action gameplay of GoW with the freeform, building scaling stealth gameplay of AC? And how on earth would you put those two characters in a party together and expect it to work?

 

I agree that they might have a lot to learn from God of War if they were trying to make a game like God of War. But you're missing the point - they aren't. DA is the way it is by design - and that's neither a flaw nor is it a weak point. It's simply a gameplay style that doesn't appeal to you. The sort of gameplay you want is unworkable for the style of game that Dragon Age is.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I played the first God of War game when it was released. It was fine. It doesn't have much to offer after one playthough though. I understand that FIFA '15 was a very well-received game, too. I have no interest in playing it, and I don't think I'm missing out.

I agree that they might have a lot to learn from God of War if they were trying to make a game like God of War. But you're missing the point - they don't. DA is the way it is by design - and that's not a flaw. It's simply a gameplay style that doesn't appeal to you. The sort of gameplay you want is unworkable for the style of game that Dragon Age is.

If you're trying to day that Dragon Age should be like God of War, that's not what I'm trying to say. I meant that they could learn it's creativity of combat to put it to use not copying it, what can they do to make the combat system better than God of War even Witcher to attract gamers to play their game. That's what I'm trying to get my point across of what they should've done to improve their formula of Dragon Age, the game has potential to be one of the best RPGs all around like Witcher if they just have a competitive drive to do better and not being stagnant. Dude BTW I meant three different games with three different fighting styles that they could learn from to give their 3 playable classes an edge. For example

-The warrior class fighting style of 2H and 1H fighting styles can be inspired from God of War series of weapons like Blade of Artemis and Blade of Olympus(my personal favorite) Different fighting moves of different weapons, also dodging, blocking, and parrying more fluid and dynamic.

-The rogue class can learn from Assassin's Creed to be more agile, graceful, precise and dangerous.http://youtu.be/HMsbMK9Odoc

Hope I gave you some insights.

[FKA_Servo]

If you're trying to day that Dragon Age should be like God of War, that's not what I'm trying to say. I meant that they could learn it's creativity of combat to put it to use not copying it, what can they do to make the combat system better than God of War even Witcher to attract gamers to play their game.

 

No, that's not what I'm trying to say, but it still sounds to me like that's what you're trying to say. Lots of people would already say that the combat system is better than God of War and The Witcher. They're subjectively correct, because again, those games fall under a different genre.

 

There are plenty of ways in which the combat in DA could be improved, but the way you propose they do so is by making them more like TW, AC, and God of War, and what you don't seem to grasp is that making it more like those games is utterly incompatible with what it is (and what many DA fans would want to play). Take a survey around here. See how many people prefer DAO's combat mechanics to any of the later games, let alone Mass Effect. It's a lot.

 

That's what I'm trying to get my point across of what they should've done to improve their formula of Dragon Age, the game has potential to be one of the best RPGs all around like Witcher if they just have a competitive drive to do better and not being stagnant.

 

I contend that it's already a better RPG than the Witcher (a lot of games are), but that's getting into a useless debate about the definition of RPGs.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

No, that's not what I'm trying to say, but it still sounds to me like that's what you're trying to say. Lots of people would already say that the combat system is better than God of War and The Witcher. They're subjectively correct, because again, those games fall under a different genre.

There are plenty of ways in which the combat in DA could be improved, but the way you propose they do so is by making them more like TW, AC, and God of War, and what you don't seem to grasp is that making it more like those games is utterly incompatible with what it is (and what many DA fans would want to play). Take a survey around here. See how many people prefer DAO's combat mechanics to any of the later games, let alone Mass Effect. It's a lot.


I contend that it's already a better RPG than the Witcher (a lot of games are), but that's getting into a useless debate about the definition of RPGs.

I'm sorry I meant "If you're trying to say that I want Dragon Age should be like God of War, you mistunderstood of what I'm trying to say" should've edit that, my mistake in my part. Hey dude whatever you say you think is best. I'm just saying Dragon Age can be a lot more.

[FKA_Servo]

Dude BTW I meant three different games with three different fighting styles that they could learn from to give their 3 playable classes an edge. For example

-The warrior class fighting style of 2H and 1H fighting styles can be inspired from God of War series of weapons like Blade of Artemis and Blade of Olympus(my personal favorite) Different fighting moves of different weapons, also dodging, blocking, and parrying more fluid and dynamic.

-The rogue class can learn from Assassin's Creed to be more agile, graceful, precise and dangerous.http://youtu.be/HMsbMK9Odoc

Hope I gave you some insights.

 

No, this just reaffirms my conviction that we're talking past each other. Adding QTEs, combos, or active, skill based dodging, blocking, or parrying would not improve the gameplay. It would change it. It's a change that would annoy lots of people.

 

The rogue class is well-differentiated from the other classes in the game, and it is already agile, graceful, precise, and dangerous - in the context of the game and its mechanics.

 

Have you ever played Baldur's Gate? KoTOR? Any Bioware game prior to Mass Effect 1? These games, in essence, play more or less like DA plays now. It's its own gameplay genre, with its own rules and conventions, which is what you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge.

 

Whatever you say you think is best. I'm just saying Dragon Age can be a lot more.

 

I agree of course, but not for the same reasons. And not every game has to be an action game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

As I said before it has its uses so why not have both? They have pause & play in SOCOM series to pause the game with the TCM (Team Command Menu) to give orders to SEAL team members during gameplay and real time combat as well as Fallout series with VATS.

VATS is an excellent example. Once the game is modded to provide infinite action points, VATS can be used for every shot.

That should absolutely be a viable playstyle.

I don't care how the combat works in real time as long as I don't have to play it like that. But the games you mentioned mostly do require real-time gameplay.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If you're trying to day that Dragon Age should be like God of War, that's not what I'm trying to say. I meant that they could learn it's creativity of combat to put it to use not copying it, what can they do to make the combat system better than God of War even Witcher to attract gamers to play their game. That's what I'm trying to get my point across of what they should've done to improve their formula of Dragon Age, the game has potential to be one of the best RPGs all around like Witcher if they just have a competitive drive to do better and not being stagnant. Dude BTW I meant three different games with three different fighting styles that they could learn from to give their 3 playable classes an edge. For example

-The warrior class fighting style of 2H and 1H fighting styles can be inspired from God of War series of weapons like Blade of Artemis and Blade of Olympus(my personal favorite) Different fighting moves of different weapons, also dodging, blocking, and parrying more fluid and dynamic.

-The rogue class can learn from Assassin's Creed to be more agile, graceful, precise and dangerous.http://youtu.be/HMsbMK9Odoc

Hope I gave you some insights.

As long as they can be played, without any loss of effectiveness, without playing in real time.

For example, let me program my character's tactics so he'll parry, on his own, under relevant circumstances. I should never have to hit buttons in a well-timed manner.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, this just reaffirms my conviction that we're talking past each other. Adding QTEs, combos, or active, skill based dodging, blocking, or parrying would not improve the gameplay. It would change it. It's a change that would annoy lots of people.

It might work if we could program them into the tactics so the characters would use those abilities in their own.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yes and it doesn't matter to me if the game has little roleplay. As long as I'm playing a good game.

RPGs aren't games.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

No, this just reaffirms my conviction that we're talking past each other. Adding QTEs, combos, or active, skill based dodging, blocking, or parrying would not improve the gameplay. It would change it. It's a change that would annoy lots of people.

The rogue class is well-differentiated from the other classes in the game, and it is already agile, graceful, precise, and dangerous - in the context of the game and its mechanics.

Have you ever played Baldur's Gate? KoTOR? Any Bioware game prior to Mass Effect 1? These games, in essence, play more or less like DA plays now. It's its own gameplay genre, with its own rules and conventions, which is what you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge.


I agree of course, but not for the same reasons. And not every game has to be an action game.

I never played those games so I can't say much about them. And if a game has any kind of element of action especially when it comes to combat, they need to introduce action to be part of the game. Once again you misunderstood me, I meant that AC combat style of fighting is more fluid and grace of using a sword, dagger, and ranged weapon can be put to good use of a rogue class, not the entire combat design itself if that's what you're saying. And just because they can learn from God of War to improve their warrior class doesn't mean that they have to copy God of War, I meant to say what can they do to improve the warrior fighting styles should be like? What can they come up some crazy **** to make specializations like Templar, Reaver, or Champion more better? I'm not trying to say "put it all at once." just bits and pieces of what can they use to give their combat system an edge.

[FKA_Servo]

I never played those games so I can't say much about them. And if a game has any kind of element of action especially when it comes to combat, they need to introduce action to be part of the game.

 

They don't, though. Dragon Age has combat without action gameplay. So do plenty of other games. You just don't like it. Lots of players prefer it.

 

Once again you misunderstood me, I meant that AC combat style of fighting is more fluid and grace of using a sword, dagger, and ranged weapon can be put to good use of a rogue class, not the entire combat design itself if that's what you're saying.

 

So what - make the animations more fluid or flashy? Sure. You can do that without altering the gameplay. But again, I'm pretty sure that's not what you're saying. You sound like you want the gameplay to be more like Assassin's Creed or the Witcher. Which is fine, but it's utterly incompatible with Dragon Age and the genre which it falls under. Why not just play those games instead of radically altering this one?

 

And just because they can learn from God of War to improve their warrior class doesn't mean that they have to copy God of War, I meant to say what can they do to improve the warrior fighting styles should be like? What can they come up some crazy **** to make specializations like Templar, Reaver, or Champion more better? I'm not trying to say "put it all at once." just bits and pieces of what can they use to give their combat an edge.

 

Again, if you're not calling for action gameplay, then this doesn't make any sense. The different specializations are distinct and functional in the context of the game and its mechanics. You just don't like the gameplay or mechanics. Plenty of people do.

[Spectr61]

First, second, third or whatever point of view - who cares.

Just zero pausing.

A crutch that detracts from smooth, fast combat.

ME3MP is mostly spot-on, with nary a pause, delay, or "hold it whilst I get my kit together" in sight.

Please make it like this, with the pause, if there must be one, relegated to SP only (again like ME3).

[KaiserShep]

RPGs aren't games.

 

 

I…..wat. I mean, what's the G stand for? Gravy? Gabbo? Ghettoblaster? 

[von uber]

And Tomb Raider is just not a shooter, in any way, shape or form.

 

 

Have you actually played Tomb Raider recently?

I guess this must just be a prop.

 

 

And this must be just pointlessly aiming it.

 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

They don't, though. Dragon Age has combat without action gameplay. So do plenty of other games. You just don't like it. Lots of players prefer it.
 

 
So what - make the animations more fluid or flashy? Sure. You can do that without altering the gameplay. But again, I'm pretty sure that's not what you're saying. You sound like you want the gameplay to be more like Assassin's Creed or the Witcher. Which is fine, but it's utterly incompatible with Dragon Age and the genre which it falls under. Why not just play those games instead of radically altering this one?
 

 
Again, if you're not calling for action gameplay, then this doesn't make any sense. The different specializations are distinct and functional in the context of the game and its mechanics. You just don't like the gameplay or mechanics. Plenty of people do.

I never said I liked them. And if people liked their method of their style of gameplay that's cool. But it can be a whole lot better if they revamp their gameplay design and put new features to make DA combat more epic and fun to play. It can be a whole lot better that's all I'm saying.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

First, second, third or whatever point of view - who cares.
Just zero pausing.
A crutch that detracts from smooth, fast combat.
ME3MP is mostly spot-on, with nary a pause, delay, or "hold it whilst I get my kit together" in sight.
Please make it like this, with the pause, if there must be one, relegated to SP only (again like ME3).

That's what I said before why not have both without getting rid of one and keep the other?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I…..wat. I mean, what's the G stand for? Gravy? Gabbo? Ghettoblaster?

I know. This guy is bonkers!

[KaiserShep]

First, second, third or whatever point of view - who cares.

Just zero pausing.

A crutch that detracts from smooth, fast combat.

ME3MP is mostly spot-on, with nary a pause, delay, or "hold it whilst I get my kit together" in sight.

Please make it like this, with the pause, if there must be one, relegated to SP only (again like ME3).

 

 

I disagree. For one, this gameplay tool is useful when dealing with an AI team that allows you to direct their movement, weapon selection and which abilities to use (like if you want to have everyone strike the same target with specific powers simultaneously). Besides, you're not obligated to use it. All of the Mass Effect games can be played without ever having to pause. It's just that pausing allowed you to access more than could be mapped to a controller. 

 

Anyway, it's impossible to implement this properly in MP anyway, since it's all realtime with other players online. 

[FKA_Servo]

I never said I liked them. And if people liked their method of their style of gameplay that's cool. But it can be a whole lot better if they revamp their gameplay design and put new features to make DA combat more epic and fun to play. It can be a whole lot better that's all I'm saying.

Again, subjective. It's already fun to play for lots of people. It can stand to be improved, as can anything. But again, the improvements you propose are mechanically incompatible with the fundamentals of the gameplay genre. They just wouldn't work without changing everything completely. That's unnecessary, and certainly isn't an improvement. It would ruin it for plenty of players as well.

That's what I said before why not have both without getting rid of one and keep the other?

If THAT'S the issue - you can do that now. You can play through all three DA games without ever programming tactics, switching characters, or even entering the pause menu or tac cam.

Mass Effect has the right idea. ME3's many shortcomings didn't include the gameplay, which is improved from the first game in every way I can name. It's also a third person shooter (and has been since its inception), not a RTw/P party RPG. Again - different gameplay genre.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Again, subjective. It's already fun to play for lots of people. It can stand to be improved, as can anything. But again, the improvements you propose are mechanically incompatible with the fundamentals of the gameplay genre. They just wouldn't work without changing everything completely. That's unnecessary, and certainly isn't an improvement. It would ruin it for plenty of players as well.


If THAT'S the issue - you can do that now. You can play through all three DA games without ever programming tactics, switching characters, or even entering the pause menu or tac cam.

Mass Effect has the right idea. ME3's many shortcomings didn't include the gameplay, which is improved from the first game in every way I can name. It's also a third person shooter (and has been since its inception), not a RTw/P party RPG. Again - different gameplay genre.

Idk, I felt that ME3's gameplay was too fast and twitchy. That's kind of a flaw for me. Lol