214 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Intelligence without wisdom gets you f*cked, and not in the way you want to. Morrigan is a classic example of an intelligent person with no wisdom - She ends up being the slave of someone she despises. Morrigan can also be manipulated, both by her own mother and by her potential lover, who can simply earn his approval by bribing her with gifts of jewelry. We have a term for a woman who is easily swayed by jewelry & the like - Gold Digger. At least Leliana has class and prefers gifts other than jewelry.

 

Additionally, I have never said that Leliana is intelligent. I said she has skills. As for her failures, many of the companions and advisers we know have screwed up at somepoint. Morrigan foolishly gave up free will for power. Cullen screwed up in Kinloch Hold and in Kirkwall's Gallows. Wynne caused a student to run off. Solas screwed up on a reality shattering level. I can keep listing things but failing is expected when it comes to people.

 

Leliana has many flaws but she is, at the end of the day, a reasonable Chaotic Good character.

 

Morrigan is fool and so is Leliana i don't deny it , i just responded on heavily biased toward Leliana comment that tried show Leliana in much better light than Morrigan.

 

Cullen didn't screw up in Kinloch Hold as guy had no realistic chance to win against abominations, in da 2 it is another story because there guy was just plain stupid what is understatement (poor writing).Wynne herself admited she was foolish when young , Leliana don't have same excuse. When Solas is typical example of person that acts first and thinks about consequences later and that is overly sentimental.

 

Leliana isn't chaotic good by any mean she is chaotic neutral , chaotic good characters aren't that petty and cruel to cut someone tongue because person sings badly about you.

[Xerrai]

My only thought on Leliana is that she has some major plot armor. Even in death she still comes back (apparently as a lyrium ghost).

[DAJB]

I liked her in Origins. I found her slightly naive take on things a nice contrast to everyone else's cynicism, which made party banter a lot of fun.

 

I don't mind her in Inquisition, but she's almost a different character entirely. She has so little in common with her Origins counterpart.

 

I never pick her to be Divine (although the convoluted way the game works, I've ended up with her on several occasions anyway!) because - if I look at her life as a whole - she's changed so many times (ingenue, Orlesian Bard, Chantry lay sister, rogue fighter, spymaster to the Divine) that I feel she's quite likely to change her views and demeanour again. And again. And again. taken all together, I see her as fickle, too driven by whims, and very likely to change her stance from one day to the next. Not a good profile for someone leading an organisation as influential as the Chantry!

[Jackums]

Compassion is sexy.

 

#"softened"leliana

[Donquijote and 59 others]

"She's very beautiful" - Leliana about Anora.

you wanted the crown that's why you married her   

[malloc]

I don't know what to think of her i do not really trust her either. There is something about her that gives me the creeps. And when you romance Josephine she becomes even dangerous not in so many words but there is something behind those words that creeps me out it's not that i don't like her there is just something. it's just difficult to explain 
 
Any thoughts on Leliana ?

One word : Trash

[Bayonet Hipshot]

One word : Trash

 

Congratulations for describing yourself aptly. Lindsay Lohan is trash.

[malloc]

Congratulations for describing yourself aptly. Lindsay Lohan is trash.

Call me when Leliana makes Mean Girls.

[Secret Rare]

Morrigan is fool and so is Leliana i don't deny it , i just responded on heavily biased toward Leliana comment that tried show Leliana in much better light than Morrigan.

 

 

Leliana will always be better than Morrigan for the simple reason than one is free while the latter is not.

 

Solas:"you have given up a part of yourself,everything you do will be for her" and i will add for the eternity

not that Morrigan was not already doing her mother's dirty work in fact she was doing it since DAO.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Leliana will always be better than Morrigan for the simple reason than one is free while the latter is not.

 

Solas:"you have given up a part of yourself,everything you do will be for her" and i will add for the eternity

not that Morrigan was not already doing her mother's dirty work in fact she was doing it since DAO.

 

 

Morrigan is only controlled by Mythal if you let her drink from the well. Leliana herself is constantly controled by another people like Marjolaine or Justinia.

 

She, also wasn't doing Flemeth dirty work as she escaped Flemeth until Dai.

[Patricia08]

One word : Trash

 

I take it you revering to my OP and not Leliana well i can live with that if that is your opinion  

[malloc]

I take it you revering to my OP and not Leliana well i can live with that if that is your opinion  

Oh I was talking about Leliana. I hate that character

[Dai Grepher]

Why is she so incompetent in Inquisition ?

 

Because BioWare is lazy. Her incompetence could be more a result of BioWare needing to move their own plot forward.

 

As to examples of her incompetence, off the top of my head, she was going to kill an agent who turned on the Inquisition and killed one of Leliana's best agents. A proper spymaster would have had the traitor captured and interrogated to see who he worked for.

 

She will possibly disobey a direct order in the bad future, knowing full well that sending the Herald back in time is the only way to prevent the bad future from happening. Yet she will still kill Felix for no reason and provoke Alexius, thus putting the Herald and the world at risk.

 

She doesn't check Blackwall's story or question him enough. She later gets a report on the real Blackwall that proves Thom is a fraud, but she withholds the information from the Inquisitor.

 

She suggests letting Celene die even though she knows Corypheus wants her dead. She assumes Corypheus' goal is chaos, but fails to consider that there could be other reasons.

 

She thinks she should have sacrificed her scouts to possibly buy Haven a little more time.

 

She suggested sending scouts into the Arbor Wilds without military support, to which Cullen rebukes her saying she'd lose half of them.

 

She failed to prevent Venatori, Ben-Hassrath, and Solas' spies from infiltrating the Inquisition.

 

She hid the Qunari body for no reason, which made the Inquisition look shady.

 

She blabbed to the companions about the mark overloading even if you told her to keep it quiet.

[Silcron]

I like Leliana in all her appearances except Origins, when she was all about her vision, and the Maker and please shut up, you're just here to shoot arrows and open locks. I like her in her Origins dlc, I like her cameo in DA2 and in Inquisition. I like that for once the secretive spy who doesn't have a problem with murder actually has a semblance of morality and good intentions (I'm not saying it's the best morality, but at least she wants to work for a greater good).

I suppose her phase in Origins was necesary for this development but overall, yeah, Lel can be creepy, and menacing, but it always is with a good intention. With Josie she's just being the overprotective friend in the way she knows how.

I may still miss predevout Leliana, when she was a bard, but I like her, she's been a good buddy of my pc's in the games. (Not a romance though, I don't see a romantic relationship lasting much, and while I don't think I'd get literally backstabbed, I wouldn't be surprised if secrets from my past stopped being secret.)

[Ghost Gal]

I was never a big fan of Leliana.

 

She's got two personalities and I find them equally unappealing. She's either the sickeningly sweet, saccharine, ditzy, loopy, overly devout Maker fangirl who never shuts up about religion (I never liked religious zealotry), or she's the cold, cruel, ruthless, murderous, intrigue-loving, thrill-of-the-hunt seeking bard. I find them to be two extremes that I highly dislike.

 

Worse, the two personalities come together makes her appear very hypocritical to me. As the Maker fangirl, she comes across as even more preachy and self-righteous than Wynne, but she loses credibility when you learn that she willingly joined the murderous bard life for the fun of it. As the ruthless bard, she's arguably even more amoral than Zevran, but at least he has the excuse that he never had a choice joining the Crows (he was sold to them at age seven) and was conditioned from early childhood to know nothing but murder; Leliana willingly joined the bard life as a young adult because she was enchanted by the thrill, the intrigue, the danger, the hunt, and even the kill.

 

In DAO she protests that she was duped into it by Marjolaine, but Marjolaine points out that Leliana secretly loved the life as much as she did (which Leliana later admits is true), and Zevran can point out that she enjoyed the thrill of the hunt and the power of seduction she could exert on her enemies, satisfied by a clean kill. So DAO Maker fangirl Leliana's constant protests to being innocent just get on my nerves, and her giving into her killer bard side disgusts me. Then in DAI her dropping her innocent Maker fangirl side and becoming a cold, ruthless bard, regardless of how the Warden helped her in DAO, and her defaulting more toward ruthless bard than religious idealist, just makes her that much more despicable to me. I'm so freaking tired of dealing with her split personality issues, and having to deal with her screwed up moral compass where she constantly defaults to "ruthless murderer" with only her zealous devotion to the Maker (which I find equally obnoxious) keeping her somewhat in the light.

 

Yeah, you can say "that makes her a deep, complex, layered character," but I don't care. I still don't like her. Lots of other characters are also complex and struggle with morality--duty verses desire, idealism verses cynicism, what's right verses what's practical--and I find their individual character quirks less irritating and tiresome than Leliana's "religious zealot vs ruthless murderer" shtick.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Morrigan is only controlled by Mythal if you let her drink from the well. Leliana herself is constantly controled by another people like Marjolaine or Justinia.

 

She, also wasn't doing Flemeth dirty work as she escaped Flemeth until Dai.

bla bla bla  im a huge and  blind Morrigan fan

 

 

[sniper_arrow]

I did find her eyes creepy in DAO

[Inkvisiittori]

I did find her eyes creepy in DAO

 

I didn't like her haircut. Why is it still the same after ten years? She would look perfect with long hair.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

snip 

where is the dislike button?

Maker i beseech you sent her into the black city

[sniper_arrow]

where is the dislike button?

Maker i beseech you sent her into the black city

 

Why? She's free to tell her opinion on Loliana.

[Dai Grepher]

Oh I don't know about that...Erlina & Anora look like they have something going on between them...

 
Ah, because they're both females, so of course.  No, Erlina was Anora's stand-in for those nights when Cailan would come back to the castle drunk and want some from his consort.
 

you wanted the crown that's why you married her

My Cousland could have won the crown without her, but he wanted her also.
 

Leliana will always be better than Morrigan for the simple reason than one is free while the latter is not.

 

Not if she's a "lyrium ghost" (if that's even canon).

[sniper_arrow]

As to examples of her incompetence, off the top of my head, she was going to kill an agent who turned on the Inquisition and killed one of Leliana's best agents. A proper spymaster would have had the traitor captured and interrogated to see who he worked for.

 

She doesn't check Blackwall's story or question him enough. She later gets a report on the real Blackwall that proves Thom is a fraud, but she withholds the information from the Inquisitor.

 

She suggests letting Celene die even though she knows Corypheus wants her dead. She assumes Corypheus' goal is chaos, but fails to consider that there could be other reasons.

 

I think this is why I have a love-hate relationship with Leliana, especially the Blackwall one.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Why? She's free to tell her opinion on Loliana.

She did of course with plenty of vitriol

 and i always reply with irony to that kind of posts.lol

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I was never a big fan of Leliana.

 

She's got two personalities and I find them equally unappealing. She's either the sickeningly sweet, saccharine, ditzy, loopy, overly devout Maker fangirl who never shuts up about religion (I never liked religious zealotry), or she's the cold, cruel, ruthless, murderous, intrigue-loving, thrill-of-the-hunt seeking bard. I find them to be two extremes that I highly dislike.

 

Worse, the two personalities come together makes her appear very hypocritical to me. As the Maker fangirl, she comes across as even more preachy and self-righteous than Wynne, but she loses credibility when you learn that she willingly joined the murderous bard life for the fun of it. As the ruthless bard, she's arguably even more amoral than Zevran, but at least he has the excuse that he never had a choice joining the Crows (he was sold to them at age seven) and was conditioned from early childhood to know nothing but murder; Leliana willingly joined the bard life as a young adult because she was enchanted by the thrill, the intrigue, the danger, the hunt, and even the kill.

 

In DAO she protests that she was duped into it by Marjolaine, but Marjolaine points out that Leliana secretly loved the life as much as she did (which Leliana later admits is true), and Zevran can point out that she enjoyed the thrill of the hunt and the power of seduction she could exert on her enemies, satisfied by a clean kill. So DAO Maker fangirl Leliana's constant protests to being innocent just get on my nerves, and her giving into her killer bard side disgusts me. Then in DAI her dropping her innocent Maker fangirl side and becoming a cold, ruthless bard, regardless of how the Warden helped her in DAO, and her defaulting more toward ruthless bard than religious idealist, just makes her that much more despicable to me. I'm so freaking tired of dealing with her split personality issues, and having to deal with her screwed up moral compass where she constantly defaults to "ruthless murderer" with only her zealous devotion to the Maker (which I find equally obnoxious) keeping her somewhat in the light.

 

Yeah, you can say "that makes her a deep, complex, layered character," but I don't care. I still don't like her. Lots of other characters are also complex and struggle with morality--duty verses desire, idealism verses cynicism, what's right verses what's practical--and I find their individual character quirks less irritating and tiresome than Leliana's "religious zealot vs ruthless murderer" shtick.

 

The thing is that many your companions in DAO are like that.

 

Alistair can be a total sweetheart and loyal friend, until he decides to go full retard when it came to Loghain and he can leave you for the crown.

 

Zevran can be the consummate lothario but if his approval is not high enough, he will stick backstab you in the end and try to kill you.

 

Morrigan acts all practical and clever but does not behave in a very practical manner and reveals that she joined you for a different reason and if you do not fulfill that reason, she leaves. There is also the fact that if you romance her, she claims to not want any designs on your independence but throws a hissy fit if you flirt with other women.

 

Sten appears to be a stoic warrior until you learn that he also went on a rampaging killing spree. He also appears stoic until Haven where he will try to fight you for leadership.

 

The only characters who are consistent in their actions are Dog, Wynne, Oghren and Shale. What you see with them is what you get.

 

So its not just Leliana who has this dual nature in DAO. However, I prefer her over Morrigan simply because Leliana does not advocate for the enslavement of City Elves to Tevinter magisters, she does not advocate leaving Circle Mages to their fate, she does not advocate not helping Redcliffe, she does not advocate the defilement of ancient relics, she does not approve of you killing the Dalish Elves in the Brecilian forest, she is not a Gold-Digger (she prefers religious icons as well as flowers over jewelry), she is open minded if hardened (she is willing to engage in a threesome or a foursome) and lastly she does not have any Dark Ritual plans up her sleeve.

 

Point is, I like Leliana because she was the better romantic option than Morrigan for my Male Warden. She is also better than Alistair and Zevran since she will not leave you if hardened in the name of duty and you do not need to have her approval at a certain point to prevent her from turning on you. In fact, unless if your Warden goes out of their way to gain her disapproval (like by defiling the Urn of Sacred Ashes), Leliana is one of the few companions who will remain loyal by your side, either as a friend or a lover.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

^True that,most companions of DAO where self absorbed selfish bastards especially Mr "i will leave this world to burn because i dislike Loghain",ah i hated that whiny boy