Morrigan is only controlled by Mythal if you let her drink from the well. Leliana herself is constantly controled by another people like Marjolaine or Justinia.
She, also wasn't doing Flemeth dirty work as she escaped Flemeth until Dai.
On the wings of freedom!
On the wings of freedom!
Spoiler
My heart willllllll go ooooooon and ooooon
I like Leliana alot. She's my canon Warden romance.
The thing is that many your companions in DAO are like that.
Alistair can be a total sweetheart and loyal friend, until he decides to go full retard when it came to Loghain and he can leave you for the crown.
Zevran can be the consummate lothario but if his approval is not high enough, he will stick backstab you in the end and try to kill you.
Morrigan acts all practical and clever but does not behave in a very practical manner and reveals that she joined you for a different reason and if you do not fulfill that reason, she leaves. There is also the fact that if you romance her, she claims to not want any designs on your independence but throws a hissy fit if you flirt with other women.
Sten appears to be a stoic warrior until you learn that he also went on a rampaging killing spree. He also appears stoic until Haven where he will try to fight you for leadership.
The only characters who are consistent in their actions are Dog, Wynne, Oghren and Shale. What you see with them is what you get.
So its not just Leliana who has this dual nature in DAO. However, I prefer her over Morrigan simply because Leliana does not advocate for the enslavement of City Elves to Tevinter magisters, she does not advocate leaving Circle Mages to their fate, she does not advocate not helping Redcliffe, she does not advocate the defilement of ancient relics, she does not approve of you killing the Dalish Elves in the Brecilian forest, she is not a Gold-Digger (she prefers religious icons as well as flowers over jewelry), she is open minded if hardened (she is willing to engage in a threesome or a foursome) and lastly she does not have any Dark Ritual plans up her sleeve.
Point is, I like Leliana because she was the better romantic option than Morrigan for my Male Warden. She is also better than Alistair and Zevran since she will not leave you if hardened in the name of duty and you do not need to have her approval at a certain point to prevent her from turning on you. In fact, unless if your Warden goes out of their way to gain her disapproval (like by defiling the Urn of Sacred Ashes), Leliana is one of the few companions who will remain loyal by your side, either as a friend or a lover.
Except none of those are having 2 different personalities and is consistent to their character.
Alistair never hides his hate toward Loghain.
Morrigan doesn't hide she is manipulative in fact she even told you she is.
You know sten killed entire family in rage from get go and it was only moment of weakness , plus challenging your leadership if he sees you as incometent is very in character for him.
Needless to say you show great bias toward her to the point you try paint not leaving the warden as why she is best Li , but fact is she leaves you like Alistair and even tries to kill you if you upset her and leaves you after dao.
Oh I was talking about Leliana. I hate that character
Okay then i apologize
Because BioWare is lazy. Her incompetence could be more a result of BioWare needing to move their own plot forward.
As to examples of her incompetence, off the top of my head, she was going to kill an agent who turned on the Inquisition and killed one of Leliana's best agents. A proper spymaster would have had the traitor captured and interrogated to see who he worked for.
She will possibly disobey a direct order in the bad future, knowing full well that sending the Herald back in time is the only way to prevent the bad future from happening. Yet she will still kill Felix for no reason and provoke Alexius, thus putting the Herald and the world at risk.
She doesn't check Blackwall's story or question him enough. She later gets a report on the real Blackwall that proves Thom is a fraud, but she withholds the information from the Inquisitor.
She suggests letting Celene die even though she knows Corypheus wants her dead. She assumes Corypheus' goal is chaos, but fails to consider that there could be other reasons.
She thinks she should have sacrificed her scouts to possibly buy Haven a little more time.
She suggested sending scouts into the Arbor Wilds without military support, to which Cullen rebukes her saying she'd lose half of them.
She failed to prevent Venatori, Ben-Hassrath, and Solas' spies from infiltrating the Inquisition.
She hid the Qunari body for no reason, which made the Inquisition look shady.
She blabbed to the companions about the mark overloading even if you told her to keep it quiet.
Well this is quite a list and as far as i remember correctly you are right in most of the cases maybe even all probably all. The only thing i can say is that everyone makes mistakes of course but these are maybe to many mistakes to just forget about it.
Except none of those are having 2 different personalities and is consistent to their character.
Alistair never hides his hate toward Loghain.
Morrigan doesn't hide she is manipulative in fact she even told you she is.
Needless to say you show great bias toward her to the point you try paint not leaving the warden as why she is best Li , but fact is she leaves you like Alistair and even tries to kill you if you upset her and leaves you after dao.
Alistair is a living oxymoron far worse than Leliana and will be fine and follow us if we :
kill Connor or Isolde, Wipe out the Circle , Preserve the Anvil where Dwarven souls will be forged into Golems, Kill the Dalish Elves. Or the Werewolves, Leave Redcliffe to the zombie horde, sell Elves into slavery (which would give us no reason to condemn Loghain), work with a possessed corpse at one point and murderknife people left and right
He seem like a child who has no concept of where he stands on anything,that he is more willing to accept slavery and follow the Warden rather then work with Loghain makes me really see him as a fool with triple personalities 
Morrigan is far more naive than leliana what kind of manipulator would like to reveal so openly that is a manipulator? 
Leliana is simply faith unfaithful kept falsely true 
Alistair is a living oxymoron far worse than Leliana and will be fine and follow us if we :
kill Connor or Isolde, Wipe out the Circle , Preserve the Anvil where Dwarven souls will be forged into Golems, Kill the Dalish Elves. Or the Werewolves, Leave Redcliffe to the zombie horde, sell Elves into slavery (which would give us no reason to condemn Loghain), work with a possessed corpse at one point and murderknife people left and right
He seem like a child who has no concept of where he stands on anything,that he is more willing to accept slavery and follow the Warden rather then work with Loghain makes me really see him as a fool with triple personalities
Morrigan is far more naive than leliana what kind of manipulator would like to reveal so openly that is a manipulator?
Leliana is simply faith unfaithful kept falsely true
What you wrote doesn't make any sense to what i wrote. Alistair not being willing to spare and work with Loghain is consistent to his personality as it is consistent that Leliana leaves you if you destroyed ashes in both cases you cross line for those characters and has nothing with dual personalities.
Such manipulator that didn't have to hide it, considering that a lot of players if not majority went chose dark ritual she was quite successful.
What you wrote doesn't make any sense to what i wrote. Alistair not being willing to spare and work with Loghain is consistent to his personality
Such manipulator that didn't have to hide it, considering that a lot of players if not majority went chose dark ritual she was quite successful.
My point was things Alistair considers to be questionable, but will still follow you over, despite how one could have a valid argument in saying they are more morally questionable then taking in Loghain.
she was quite successful in being manipulated and used from Flemeth i agree!
Regardless of player choice in the end she always fail or because of the warden or because of Flemeth so take your choice for the same outcome lol 
My point was things Alistair considers to be questionable, but will still follow you over, despite how one could have a valid argument in saying they are more morally questionable then taking in Loghain.
she was quite successful in being manipulated and used from Flemeth i agree!
Regardless of player choice in the end she always fail or because of the warden or because of Flemeth so take your choice for the same outcome lol
So? Reaction to one thing you dislike doesn't equal reaction to another thing you dislike , person won't react the same if someone will kick puppy and if someone killed their best friend.As well i could made argument that Leliana still follows you if you sell elves into slavery but leaves you if you destroy ashes of dead woman.So points stays that has nothing to do with dual personality but simply crossing line for an individual.
Not rly, considering Flemeth culdn't find her for 10+ years , unless you are talking specifically about dai what isn't even connected to thing i have said so once again you throw in irrelevant thing.
So? Reaction to one thing you dislike doesn't equal reaction to another thing you dislike , person won't react the same if someone will kick puppy and if someone killed their best friend.As well i could made argument that Leliana still follows you if you sell elves into slavery but leaves you if you destroy ashes of dead woman.So points stays that has nothing to do with dual personality but simply crossing line for an individual.
It does make sense for Leliana since she is faithful at her core and Andraste means everything to her more than anything else ,her reaction in the temple is more than predictable,remember that she follow the warden because of a religious dream...While Alistair is a GW who can accept to stand by the side of an evil warden throughout the course of the game for the sake of stop the blight, so for him having a tantrum for recruiting an extra Warden to stop the blight does not make sense.edit10 20 30 years it does not matter in the end she did what Flemeth wanted
Except it does make sense for Alistair too and was easy to predict (unless you want to tell me that you didn't get a clue from talking to Alistair) , Duncan was extremely important to Alistair so he reacted as he reacted on the news sparing Loghain.Plus, Leliana will also accept you doing things she didn't like as i mentioned before, so now it is double standard on your part showing clear bias on your part.
It does matter, because she successfully evaded Flemeth for more than 10 years, so Flemeth didnt have easy job.
Except it does make sense for Alistair too and was easy to predict (unless you want to tell me that you didn't get a clue from talking to Alistair) , Duncan was extremely important to Alistair so he reacted as he reacted on the news sparing Loghain.Plus, Leliana will also accept you doing things she didn't like as i mentioned before, so now it is double standard on your part showing clear bias on your part.
It does matter, because she successfully evaded Flemeth for more than 10 years, so Flemeth didnt have easy job.
You can defile the ashes and still have Leliana follow you.
It is not since as i said for Leliana Andraste matters more than the questionable decisions the wardens make through the course of the game,while Alistair is seeing a member of his order the grey wardens that he see as an idealistic order doing questionable things and still stand on his/her side.No matter how you want to look at it Morrigan failed and was used by Flemeth to gain the archdemon soum,those are facts.
Once again you try apply something to Leliana but refuse to Alistair basing on claim "but for Leliana Andraste matters more" despite same can be said about Alistair just change it on Duncan and just like Alistair Leliana sticks with the warden despite s/he can do questionable things , what once again proves your bias and double standard.
And? What does that have to anything to do with what i have said because i was never discussing that, it seems you just wanted throw irrelevant to discussion facts just to make you seem that you know what you are talking about.
Once again you try apply something to Leliana but refuse to Alistair basing on claim "but for Leliana Andraste matters more" despite same can be said about Alistair just change it on Duncan and just like Alistair Leliana sticks with the warden despite s/he can do questionable things , what once again proves your bias and double standard.
No because with too high disapproval she leave.
No because with to high disapproval she leave.
So now you are changing story, besides doesn't matter because she will stick with you still despite questionable things you have done do unless you reach -100 approval.
So now you are changing story, besides doesn't matter because she will stick with you still despite questionable things you have done do unless you reach -100 approval.
I think we are reaching a point in miscommunication,you said that Leliana will stick by the warden side but that is untrue because based on her approval she can leave if too many unquestionable things are committed.
I think we are reaching a point in miscommunication,you said that Leliana will stick by the warden side but that is untrue because based on her approval she can leave if too many unquestionable things are committed.
She does stick with the warden side regardless of commited action, unless said action is defying ashes as in fact you can take almost any action that Leliana disagree with and she will stick with you.Just like Alistair, Leliana will leave if warden will cross line in their mind but until then they stay in the party only diffrence is that Leliana can leave for 2 different reasons.
In my best Dorian voice: I'm beginning to enjoy this circular argument over Leliana.
Aren is correct.. Leliana will leave the group as will everybody else except Alistair when your approval rate falls to low.. There's several videos on you tube showing everybody leaving the group.
Also in one of my several early restarts Alistair wanted to take control of the group because my approval rate was low-very,very low. I had no clue in several of my early restart games on what or how I was suppose to act to gain approval..
In my best Dorian voice: I'm beginning to enjoy this circular argument over Leliana.
Aren is correct.. Leliana will leave the group as will everybody else except Alistair when your approval rate falls to low.. There's several videos on you tube showing everybody leaving the group.
Also in one of my several early restarts Alistair wanted to take control of the group because my approval rate was low-very,very low. I had no clue in several of my early restart games on what or how I was suppose to act to gain approval..
Except i never argued on that, there are 3 companions that can't leave you because of low approval Alistair , Morrigan and Dog.
Also you have to mean Sten because if i recall Alistair never wants to take control over the group only Sten does that.
She's only allowed to fail when it's plot convenient and even then it's easily glossed over for...reasons. She easily and flawlessly molds into whatever role Bioware gives her and then we're fed that she is the absolute greatest at it. I preferred her in Origins when she was just a nobody. Although even then her special quirk was that she believed the Maker spoke to her directly and I find that pretty obnoxious too.
Now I'm being presented by the fandom and possibly by Bioware with a tyrant Divine no matter whether she's steeled or softened as the "best" Divine, who Cassandra has no problems with, but Vivienne is apparently the dictator. k, Bio', w/e.
How exactly would you write a character like her? As far as I can tell, Morrigan gets just as much attention.
Her flaws and failures are ignored in story and in rare case they aren't she is immediately excused by another character, while pretty much any character outside Viviene (and then even Viviene does) praises her to heavens almost every time they mention her. Her failures and flaws are overlooked by story and characters and in the end have to be concluded solely by the player, while pretty much characters and story put extreme emphasis on her positive qualities even to completely unrealistic and ridiculous degree.
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Everyone likes here because she has that whole bard thing where everyone likes her.
I don't actually think she is much different in DA:O to DA:I personally. I view her as kind of an actor who blends into what she needs to do/how she needs to act, again a very bard thing. Take for example scenes where she is asking the maker if we are supposed to die to do the makers will. And after she is tortured, all that acting is just gone and she is absolutely pissed. IYHSB is one of the best depictions of character I have seen in a video game honestly.
I hope she makes a return in DA4 (haven't played Trespasser yet).
How exactly would you write a character like her? As far as I can tell, Morrigan gets just as much attention.
Everyone likes here because she has that whole bard thing where everyone likes her.
I don't actually think she is much different in DA:O to DA:I personally. I view her as kind of an actor who blends into what she needs to do/how she needs to act, again a very bard thing. Take for example scenes where she is asking the maker if we are supposed to die to do the makers will. And after she is tortured, all that acting is just gone and she is absolutely pissed. IYHSB is one of the best depictions of character I have seen in a video game honestly.
I hope she makes a return in DA4 (haven't played Trespasser yet).
First of all , false all you need to see is in how many works Morrigan appeared and in how many Leliana to see difference.
Second being bard is poor excuse to create mary sue that is praised to heavens and flaws and failures are overlooked because it is ridiculous excuse.
Last thing DA 4 would need is return of mary sue that already is most overused character in entire series.
First of all , false all you need to see is in how many works Morrigan appeared and in how many Leliana to see difference.
Second being bard is poor excuse to create mary sue that is praised to heavens and flaws and failures are overlooked because it is ridiculous excuse.
Last thing DA 4 would need is return of mary sue that already is most overused character in entire series.
Its really not a big difference between morrigan and Lel.
Why is she written poorly? You are identifying her as a condition of an outside source. Plus, why would BW put such emphasis on a character that is just a mary sue? Do you think BW is stupid and they just like focussing all their attention on generic characters?
How is she overused? What if I said she is a staple to the series? Does that change anything too you?
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