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[TheKomandorShepard]

 

It seems to me that you have no idea of what you say (you have some mental disease?) since i barely copied your own words and answered 

Moderate means average in amount, intensity, quality, or degree and the definition can't apply in this case and is misused especially to describe Morrigan overexposure

 

Well not my problem that you reading comprehension is failing. First of all yes it can, because Morrigan amount of apparences in series is are not far off or equal once again to other recurring character like Varric , Isabela, Flemeth and more characters not to mention that you still fail to comprehend to i don't argue that Morrigan is overused because i actually agree with that and pretty much i explained that more than once to you despite you are still going with that.

 

Okay, just seeing a lot of insults for other posters flying around.  Before the mods decide to shut down this thread for violations and warnings get passed out, I just want to add.  Leliana isn't a Mary Sue.  She may be author insert, I am unsure, I don't know who wrote her, but she doesn't fit the definition of "mary sue" which I've seen bandied about more as an insult to the character's writing than actually looking up just what a Mary Sue is.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

 

Just being present in the games doesn't make her a Mary Sue, she doesn't fit the mold of 'perfect' as she's shown to be flawed (she's naive and too easily swayed by a stronger personality--a very serious flaw).  She's not 'best at what she does' since, although capable,  she makes mistakes and questions those times her plans go awry.  She's not some 'youngest to achieve her status' since she's been around the block a few times.

 

Overused in the series, she may be.  I enjoy the character so I don't mind.  I enjoyed Leliana's Song.  It wasn't my favorite DLC, but I did enjoy it.  Her presence in DA2 (brief cameos during an optional DLC character's quest and at the end) is completely within the bounds of 'should be there' since she is, after all the HAND of the present Divine.  The only time she has turned up and I felt it was purely fan service was during the Mark of the Assassin DLC, but then Teagan (another fan service character presence) was present as well.  Her presence in DAI makes sense since she and Cassandra were the divine's Hands.

 

Maybe they could have created a totally new character, but having Leliana in the position gives some continuity to the games, just as including Cullen in a role in all three games connects DAO to DA2 and DAI a small way.  Sometimes it just takes little things.

 

If you dislike the character, I feel sorry for you since she does play an important role in the series, but she doesn't overshadow the protagonists of the game.  She's not a Mary Sue.

I don't see insults here anywhere...

 

I have pretty much addressed that in my post before so read them if you want extended post on that, so to be short all her flaws are pretty much ignored in-story as well by characters that praise her to the heavens , and that without going into developers allowing her to get away with doing ridiculous stuff unpunished like threats toward superior and disobeying orders, another thing is completely unrealistic and ridiculous epilogue she is given that is clear devs showing favoritism for her.I could go and point even more.

 

So yes pretty much Leliana is Mary Sue.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

 

Maybe they could have created a totally new character, but having Leliana in the position gives some continuity to the games, just as including Cullen in a role in all three games connects DAO to DA2 and DAI a small way.  Sometimes it just takes little things.

 

If you dislike the character, I feel sorry for you since she does play an important role in the series, but she doesn't overshadow the protagonists of the game.  She's not a Mary Sue.

I'm not saying that she is flawless or that her presence in DAI doesn't make sense she is there because she co-founded the organization with Cassandra.

I apply another definition of Mary sueness the one of being always there to save the world, she is overexposed just like Alistair,Morrigan and arguably Cullen(even if this one had an insignificant role in DAO and a small one in DAII).

To see the same persons saving Thedas each time makes things unrealistic to me,they do that while the previous Pc disappears so frankly they are starting to steal spotlight to everyone,new companions as well as the protagonists,this story is not about Thedas into the dragon age anymore,but is more about some Npc superstar

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Well not my problem that you reading comprehension is failing. First of all yes it can, because Morrigan amount of apparences in series is are not far off or equal once again to other recurring character like Varric , Isabela, Flemeth and more characters not to mention that you still fail to comprehend 

See and that show your bias since Isabela had an insignificant role in DAO and was a companion in DAII that's it (unless now you want to count multiplayer as part of the story)while Varric was in 2 games.

Morrigan was on 3 and was  much more overused than them both so for you saying that her presence is more moderate than the one of others returning characters as a whole is bias.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

See and that show your bias since Isabela had an insignificant role in DAO and was a companion in DAII that's it (unless now you want to count multiplayer as part of the story)while Varric was in 2 games.

Morrigan was on 3 and was  much more overused than them both so for you saying that her presence is more moderate than the one of others returning characters as a whole is bias.

 

First of all you are one showing bias here as you dance around issue here and ignore completely what im saying in favor own incorrect and baseless assumptions and keep going witht hem despite i refute them. Multiplayer is part of DAI and shows story of Inquistor Agents so yes it does apply , also Isabela shows up in comic books what makes for showing up in 6 products in series what is more than Morrigan that appeared in 5 dragon age products in total, almost same thing can be said about Varric.  

 

So, no Morrigan appeared in 5 DA products in total what is not far off or equal from many other reoccurring characters.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

First of all you are one showing bias here as you dance around issue here and ignore completely what im saying in favor own incorrect and baseless assumptions and keep going witht hem despite i refute them. Multiplayer is part of DAI and shows story of Inquistor Agents so yes it does apply , also Isabela shows up in comic books what makes for showing up in 6 products in series what is more than Morrigan that appeared in 5 dragon age products in total, almost same thing can be said about Varric.  

 

So, no Morrigan appeared in 5 DA products in total what is not far off or equal from many other reoccurring characters.

Lol

So now we want to focus on quantity and disregard quality of appearances ok.....

-Isabella of DAO play an insignificant role while Morrigan play a huge role

-Isabella of DAI is insignificant in her role(Multiplayer lol) while Morrigan has a huge role

-literature does not equate to screen-time Lol,especially when it is not even canon.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Lol

So now we want to focus on quantity and disregard quality of appearances ok.....

-Isabella of DAO play an insignificant role while Morrigan play a huge role

-Isabella of DAI is insignificant in her role(Multiplayer lol) while Morrigan has a huge role

-literature does not equate to screen-time Lol,especially when it is not even canon.

 

 

Sorry, but quality is irrelevant here only in how many story-telling products they pushed character into as yourself you used example of Morrigan in Last Court where she had minor role so you yourself show bias doing something and then retreating into another argument when inconvenient.Plus being player character in multiplayer isn't insignificant role considering multiplayer focuses on Inquistion agents and she is one of them.

 

Literature does equate to number of apparences in products of da series , also literature is canon as events from them not only are referenced in games but lead to events in them ,so once again you are talking about something you have no idea about.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

, also literature is canon as events from them not only are referenced in games but lead to events in them ,so once again you are talking about something you have no idea about.

Lol lol lol lol Komandor   what about me and others dozen of players who killed Alistair...i guess that those literatures is very much canon for us!You don't even know what canon means

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lol lol lol lol Komandor   what about me and others dozen of players who killed Alistair...i guess that those literatures is very much canon for us,you don't even know what canon means

It, happens regardless just without Alistair as events in Asunder happen regardless of Wynne being killed. Varric refers in Inquistion to events from comics , this comic book just like books is just framing one specific version of world state.  

[Donquijote and 59 others]

It, happens regardless just without Alistair 

Lol ahahah  and if i kill Alistair and in addiciton sent Isabela to the Arishok.....   so much canon!

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lol ahahah  and if i kill Alistair and in addiciton sent Isabela to the Arishok.....   so much canon!

Please once again improve your reading comprehension , i pretty much addressed Alistair in last my post, plus Isabela escapes Arishok.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Please once again improve your reading comprehension , i pretty much addressed Alistair in last my post, plus Isabela escapes Arishok.

the silent grove is not canon period,it can't happen without Alistair and sayng that Isabela returned at the side of Varric is an assumption

[TheKomandorShepard]

the silent grove is not canon period,it can't happen without Alistair and sayng that Isabela returned at the side of Varric is an assumption

I see you don't even bother to read and thinkg about things other people are saying to you, it is canon once again Varric refers to events from it in DAI regardless of your world state, it is assumption and it is suppose to be as i was just pointing mere possibility because you tried counter with it being impossible because you gave Isabela to Arishok what i countered that with Isabela escaping Arishok.

 

 

[sniper_arrow]

the silent grove is not canon period,it can't happen without Alistair and sayng that Isabela returned at the side of Varric is an assumption

 

It kind of is. Warden Alistair acknowledged that he met Maric in the Fade, though in the comics he's a king.

 

Then again, this is more of Bioware canon, where Alistair and Leliana are alive, even if they can be killed off in DAO.

[sniper_arrow]

the silent grove is not canon period,it can't happen without Alistair and sayng that Isabela returned at the side of Varric is an assumption

 

It kind of is. Warden Alistair acknowledged that he met Maric in the Fade, though in the comics he's a king.

 

Then again, this is more of Bioware canon, where Alistair and Leliana are alive, even if they can be killed off in DAO.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

It kind of is. Warden Alistair acknowledged that he met Maric in the Fade, though in the comics he's a king.

 

Then again, this is more of Bioware canon, where Alistair and Leliana are alive, even if they can be killed off in DAO.

bioware internal canon not canon for all players since if you killed Alistair it cannot happen becasue the whole point of the comic is AListair who want to met his father but he can't do that if he is dead.

[thesuperdarkone2]

bioware internal canon not canon for all players since if you killed Alistair it cannot happen becasue the whole point of the comic is AListair who want to met his father but he can't do that if he is dead.

Bioware went on record saying that the events are happened, only that they differed based on how your world state is like. Warden Alistair talking about meeting Maric in the fade kind of proves it. Heck, Varric still talks about meeting the new arishok even if Alistair is dead, so yes they happened.

 

Do you really think Asunder never happened if Shale or Wynne are dead? Apparently they did considering Cole talks about it.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Bioware went on record saying that the events are happened, only that they differed based on how your world state is like. Warden Alistair talking about meeting Maric in the fade kind of proves it. Heck, Varric still talks about meeting the new arishok even if Alistair is dead, so yes they happened.

 

Do you really think Asunder never happened if Shale or Wynne are dead? Apparently they did considering Cole talks about it.

I think Gaider tried to make it canon but failed badly since with AListair dead the whole premise of the comic is dead.

With Isabela possible captured by the Arishock because of Hawke there is literally no reason for her to return at Varric side or trust him again.

In short this is no more the silent grove is another story in which without Alistair they never met the magister,they probably never killed or met Yavana and possibly they just met Sten

You can't create a story with the protagonist dead before it is even begun it's just don't make sense.

[Kimarous]

I think it's less that the books are "non-canon" so much as they're a case of "broad strokes canon", akin to certain elements of the Fallout universe. The game "Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel" has been declared non-canon as a whole because of contradictory elements, yet bits here and there can be taken as canon, such as a terminal entry in Fallout 3 referring to a rogue detachment of the Brotherhood in Chicago.

 

I'm assuming the Dragon Age books operate under a similar principle. If they work in your playthrough, great! If they don't quite, assume certain stuff happened anyway. If not... well, it just doesn't come up. So not strict "canon" so much as "semi-canon."

[TheKomandorShepard]

I think it's less that the books are "non-canon" so much as they're a case of "broad strokes canon", akin to certain elements of the Fallout universe. The game "Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel" has been declared non-canon as a whole because of contradictory elements, yet bits here and there can be taken as canon, such as a terminal entry in Fallout 3 referring to a rogue detachment of the Brotherhood in Chicago.

 

I'm assuming the Dragon Age books operate under a similar principle. If they work in your playthrough, great! If they don't quite, assume certain stuff happened anyway. If not... well, it just doesn't come up. So not strict "canon" so much as "semi-canon."

 

Events from books are canon, as they happen regardless of your in-game choices for example Lambert and templars splitting up from the chantry and many other events from Asunder are not only referenced but are also cause of current problems in Inquistion , same for Masked Empire. Book and EU understandably frame 1 world-state but events in them happen even if your world-state is different with that excat content of EU is slightly altered , like for example Here lies the abyss quest that happens regardless of previous choices but is slightly altered with different warden being present during quest.
 

[Aren]

Events from books are canon, as they happen regardless of your in-game choices for example Lambert and templars splitting up from the chantry and many other events from Asunder are not only referenced but are also cause of current problems in Inquistion , same for Masked Empire. Book and EU understandably base 1 world state but events in them happen even if your world-state is different with that excat content of EU is slightly altered , like for example Here lies the abyss quest that happens regardless of previous choices but is slightly altered with different warden being present during quest.
 

It is not the same thing as the silent grove,if Alistair is dead the story change in the comic is inevitable.

Who killed Yavana?

They met Maric?

They met Aurelian Titus?

That's why it cannot be strict canon

[TheKomandorShepard]

It is not the same thing as the silent grove,if Alistair is dead the story change in the comic is inevitable.

Who killed Yavana?

They met Maric?

They met Aurelian Titus?

That's why it cannot be strict canon

Not necessarily, as i said those events could happen anyway and some of them for certain happened but simply events are slightly altered like i before mentioned Alistair being dead doesn't prevent events in Here lies the abyss Quest from happening character is just replaced by another character like Loghain or Stroud and events in Quest go unchanged.

[Kimarous]

Not necessarily, as i said those events could happen anyway and some of them for certain happened but simply events are slightly altered like i before mentioned Alistair being dead doesn't prevent events in Here lies the abyss Quest from happening character is just replaced by another character like Loghain or Stroud and events in Quest go unchanged.

 

...that's exactly what I meant by "semi-canon"; if the exact scenario cannot be met, then it's "close enough" and, in the absence of all factors, doesn't get addressed one way or another.

 

In any case, it's pretty annoying when you keep saying "NO, IT'S CANON" when presented with contradictions. You aren't an authority on the matter, even if your delusions say otherwise.

[TheKomandorShepard]

...that's exactly what I meant by "semi-canon"; if the exact scenario cannot be met, then it's "close enough" and, in the absence of all factors, doesn't get addressed one way or another.

 

In any case, it's pretty annoying when you keep saying "NO, IT'S CANON" when presented with contradictions. You aren't an authority on the matter, even if your delusions say otherwise.

 

What still means events are canon because they are part of the lore and you can't change that, plus i never argued that you were wrong just that events involved in books are canon.

 

It is canon as Here lies the abyss is canon, no im not authority on the matter but Bioware is and if they decided events happened regardless of your influence like Lambert splitting out from the chantry it is canon. 

[Andromelek]

What still means events are canon because they are part of the lore and you can't change that, plus i never argued that you were wrong just that events involved in books are canon.

It is canon as Here lies the abyss is canon, no im not authority on the matter but Bioware is and if they decided events happened regardless of your influence like Lambert splitting out from the chantry it is canon.

There is a huge difference between the comics and Here lies the abyss, on Here lies the abyss what is required is a rogue Warden to fit in the plot (and there are different options for it), on the comics, what would be required is a dude with Therin's bloodline (Teagan and Loghain wouldn't fit in the plot) otherwise, Titus would not be interested on set a trap on a random dude, therefore, Claudio and the crows would never have revealed that they had Maric captive. In Gaider's words " The events happened different or not at all" And the comics are exactly on that category, they were always meant to, Gaider's other idea for a comic was GW Bethany and Howe (the first could also be dead).

[straykat]

There is a huge difference between the comics and Here lies the abyss, on Here lies the abyss what is required is a rogue Warden to fit in the plot (and there are different options for it), on the comics, what would be required is a dude with Therin's bloodline (Teagan and Loghain wouldn't fit in the plot) otherwise, Titus would not be interested on set a trap on a random dude, therefore, Claudio and the crows would never have revealed that they had Maric captive. In Gaider's words " The events happened different or not at all" And the comics are exactly on that category, they were always meant to, Gaider's other idea for a comic was GW Bethany and Howe (the first could also be dead).

 

I love thinking about this stuff.. I don't know why. I like that there is a canon of sorts, but I like finding the many ways I can make it click. The Alistair comic might have the most limited options though. I'm not even sure I could see a drunk Alistair doing it.