125 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Pls no.

 

It would balance out the utility of mages, hell have them randomly black out from exertion or take damage if they have to fire off multiple spells in quick succession unless if they are strong enough to do that.

[eyezonlyii]

It would balance out the utility of mages, hell have them randomly black out from exertion or take damage if they have to fire off multiple spells in quick succession unless if they are strong enough to do that.

Maybe not black out, but what if the count was, instead of them having to fight a demon, the percentage chance that a spell would fail? In Origins, when you do the voice testing, there was a phrase when a mage would say something akin to having lost the spell, or the spell being broken. I always wondered what that was about as it never happened in the game. 

Also, if you listen to some banter between Dorian and Solas, they talk about Dorian cracking two spells like a whip, but making his teeth taste funny. If there was a way to do THAT in the game, albiet with some sort of potential consequence, I'd be all for it!

[The Baconer]

It would balance out the utility of mages, hell have them randomly black out from exertion or take damage if they have to fire off multiple spells in quick succession unless if they are strong enough to do that.

It doesn't "balance" anything, it's just making them significantly weaker while giving them nothing in return but "flavor tokens". There isn't even a power-level gap between classes to justify that.

[Super Drone]

It doesn't "balance" anything, it's just making them significantly weaker while giving them nothing in return but "flavor tokens". There isn't even a power-level gap between classes to justify that.

 

There will be if people wailing about non-Mages having powerful, cool looking abilities have their way. Warriors in Origins sucked. People that want non-mages to be "down to earth" like Origins Warriors and Rogues don't care if that makes them weak and boring, so long as they don't outshine their Mage PCs.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

There will be if people wailing about non-Mages having powerful, cool looking abilities have their way. Warriors in Origins sucked. People that want non-mages to be "down to earth" like Origins Warriors and Rogues don't care if that makes them weak and boring, so long as they don't outshine their Mage PCs.

 

This. I don't want Warriors and Rogues having flashy over the top abilities. The damage they do is irrelevant. I want a sword strike to be like a sword strike, a shield bash to be like a shield bash, a dagger slash to be a dagger slash instead of over the top magic-esque BS.

[The Baconer]

There will be if people wailing about non-Mages having powerful, cool looking abilities have their way.

I don't think Bioware really cares about them.

[Super Drone]

I don't think Bioware really cares about them.

 

I should hope not. 

[Phoe77]

Considering warriors and rogues still rely a great deal on their basic attacks, I find it difficult to sympathize with your dislike of flashy visuals.  Heck, even many of the activated abilities aren't all that impressive.  Using shield bash has the character hit someone with their shield.  Using Twin Fangs has the rogue stab the bad guy with both daggers.  Some abilities are, of course, flashy, but it seems like they're the exceptions.  

 

For a lot of people, interesting visuals add a lot of enjoyment to combat.  Obviously, what some people consider interesting might be considered ridiculous by someone else, but that's unavoidable.

[Iakus]

Is it just me or are Rogues and Warriors becoming more and more mage-like ?

 

They have been since DA2 and its teleporting ninja-rogues.

 

Heck since Awakening if you want to get down to it.

 

 

 

To be fair, Warriors are not so offensive in their magic-wannabeness. Most of their magical ability can actually be explained within the in game lore.

 

I still want to know how my 2H Warrior can hit the ground with his greatsword so hard flames shoot out and engulf my enemies.

[Giantdeathrobot]

They could tone down some of the more absurd abilities, such as hitting the ground with a sword so hard flames shoot up.

 

Beyond that, I need to need to make mundane classes wimps. This isn't a realistic setting, and there's nothing wrong with strong warriors and skilled rogues having some flash to their abilities. If I wanted to look at some guy slowly poke people with his sword I'd play Origins.

[AntiChri5]

Christ, don't get me started on Earthshaking Strike.

 

The only good thing about that ability is that, gameplay wise, it is crap so there is little temptation to use it. Just use a respec amulet, invest in a different skill and pretend that nonsense isn't in the game.

[Alex Hawke]

Rogues and Warriors could have cool abilities and look slightly more realistic at the same time, but it would require too many changes in the battle system. I'd say, Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen is a good example (though, rogue-like classes carry unlimited ammo and explosives there as well).

Edit. Though, in Origins rogues had a lot of useful abilities, which could be performed with daggers only (such as Riposte, Cripple and Whirlwind). Later, in Awakening a variation of Thousand Cuts was added (called "Flicker", if I'm not mistaken).

[Qis]

Lets look at Skyrim, "warrior" and "rogue" in this game don't have any flashy over the top abilities, what make them magical is if they learn magic.All attacks are the same, one handed, two handed, all have the same movement. But why people love Skyrim? flashy movement and magical abilities is a no need to make people love warrior and rogue class.

 

Dark Souls also don't have flashy and magical abilities unless you learn magic. Every weapons have their own unique movement, be it fast or slow and surprisingly slow movement is a no problem to players, some players do using slow weapons even in PvP. And look how people love this game because of it's realism in a sense.

[Super Drone]

Lets look at Skyrim, "warrior" and "rogue" in this game don't have any flashy over the top abilities, what make them magical is if they learn magic.All attacks are the same, one handed, two handed, all have the same movement. But why people love Skyrim? flashy movement and magical abilities is a no need to make people love warrior and rogue class.

 

Dark Souls also don't have flashy and magical abilities unless you learn magic. Every weapons have their own unique movement, be it fast or slow and surprisingly slow movement is a no problem to players, some players do using slow weapons even in PvP. And look how people love this game because of it's realism in a sense.

 

Neither of those are Pause-and-Click, party-based combat games. Warriors and Rogues were "down-to-earth" in Origins... and they were desperately weak and boring compared to Mages. You would need to change the way combat runs entirely to a "twitch-based" gameplay, which would make the people complaining about the combat not being tactical enough even more upset. 

[Iakus]

Neither of those are Pause-and-Click, party-based combat games. Warriors and Rogues were "down-to-earth" in Origins... and they were desperately weak and boring compared to Mages. You would need to change the way combat runs entirely to a "twitch-based" gameplay, which would make the people complaining about the combat not being tactical enough even more upset. 

My warriors were practically indestructible in DAO.  My mages, while they were powerful at a distance, Maker help them if they actually got an enemy's attention.

[Elhanan]

There has always been some magical overlapping in the DA series. With glowing sustains, arrows that shatter into multiple warheads, magical marks, abilities that defy physics, etc. That said, I also dislike earthquake inducing effects, throwing chains, and like abilities, and do not use them in my games.

As for Mages, have enjoyed playing them in every game in the series; my fave class in the last two games. Their versatility with spells and combinations have made them more enjoyable then the more limited melee and archer options, IMO.

I would not mind seeing the Rogues return to a more skill based class, and Warriors regain more actual combat choices.

[Super Drone]

My warriors were practically indestructible in DAO.  My mages, while they were powerful at a distance, Maker help them if they actually got an enemy's attention.

 

indestructible does not equal fun to play.

[Qis]

Neither of those are Pause-and-Click, party-based combat games. Warriors and Rogues were "down-to-earth" in Origins... and they were desperately weak and boring compared to Mages. You would need to change the way combat runs entirely to a "twitch-based" gameplay, which would make the people complaining about the combat not being tactical enough even more upset. 

 

For me there's no difference, FPS games like Skyrim is just left-click or button mashing to attack, and spam it until enemy dead, the animation are the same...is that fun? For some people it is fun.

 

There are "special attacks" or "stronger attack", but none of them are magical by any means. Most players just spam left-click or R1 for regular attacks anyway in Dark Souls.

 

Pause and click games like DA:O have numerous special attacks than FPS games like Skyrim...let's look at Two Handed in DA:O, having 6 special attacks and the rest are upgrades and sustained. Skyrim Two Handed only have 4 special attacks no one use...forward, left, right, backward...everyone just spam regular attack until enemy dead.

 

Those games prove that over the top magical animations and skills are not important to attract players.....

[Phoe77]

So basically what you're suggesting is that rogues and warriors should have less variety in combat.  I can't say that I agree with that, especially since both of the games you're using as an example have combat systems that can engage the player in other ways.  

[Iakus]

indestructible does not equal fun to play.

Certainly helps in a party-based combat.

[The Hierophant]

I'd prefer it if Bio followed DD's lead in non magical melee department. Still some flash but not too flamboyant.

 

 

Mind you the sword, and shield is enchanted with holy magic which heals on every strike.

[Super Drone]

Certainly helps in a party-based combat.

That's a half step away from my favorite argument

"Non-mages can suck and be boring to play because this is a party based game and so you can just focus on how cool mages are"

[Qis]

So basically what you're suggesting is that rogues and warriors should have less variety in combat.  I can't say that I agree with that, especially since both of the games you're using as an example have combat systems that can engage the player in other ways.  

 

Is that direct to me? I am suggesting that warrior and rogues have no magical enhanced movements and skills, there is no need for flashy combat. What they need to do is make more boombastic combat moveset, that's fine, but no flashy magic infused in it. Leave magic to magicians.

 

Look at this for example, no flashy magical enhanced in the moveset

 

[Iakus]

That's a half step away from my favorite argument

"Non-mages can suck and be boring to play because this is a party based game and so you can just focus on how cool mages are"

 

Except warriors and rogues don't suck.  I have, in fact, played warriors more than any other class in DAO.  They felt plenty powerful to me.

[Patchwork]

They should just bring down the Veil then warrior/rogue abilities can be as flashy and magical as they like.