Except warriors and rogues don't suck. I have, in fact, played warriors more than any other class in DAO. They felt plenty powerful to me.
true, A properly builds for Sten, Alistar and Oghren can carve a swath of destruction thru the Deep Roads. In One playthru, I had Oghren, Sten, Zervan and Warden Rogue party, it was extremely funny how fast they wreck the Darkspawn in the Deep Road quest.
Warriors in Origins sucked. People that want non-mages to be "down to earth" like Origins Warriors and Rogues don't care if that makes them weak and boring
Zevran with a proper build is the top melee DPS (and one of the best overall), be it Dex-cun or dex-str. Unhitable. Scriptable to whatever the player need is, like oneshoting the mages. Rogues in DA are anything but weak. And the fact that you enjoy mages more does not make rest of the classes boring, really.The very point is that DAO rogues could be cool, and yet not all flashy and magical. As for warriors - had never been a class of my choice, same as for ME soldiers, but plenty of people love them. In DAO their skills made sense too. Auras were bad, all of them, but thanx the Maker, disco auras did not even make it into DA2.
Rogues are a waste in DA:O, like warriors, because they're underpowered relative to mages. That's the problem with every class in DA:O, in fact. That a single end-game rogue has high single-target damage doesn't really do much when a mage just blows it straight out of the water, and you get a huge plethora of superior utility powers. Not to mention you have to play the positioning micro-manage game the entire time to actually get value out of your rogue (if you're going for a backstab build). All that time babysitting is just time you're not alpha-striking with a mage.
As for one-shotting mages, that's called Mana Clash, and it's AOE.
The only reason to bring a warrior along in DA:O was the fact that the game didn't let you have 4 mages.
Rogue is never meant to be combat character, why would rogue to be all powerful than mages and stronger than warriors?
Rogue is literally means THIEF...someone who AVOID COMBAT and deal with things in different way...using tools, stealth, and get away with persuasion...a rogue is never meant for combat but if combat is a must, a rogue only rely on back stab and taking advantage of disorientation.
That's what a real rogue should be.
In DA:O they give Dual Wield and Archery for Rogues just because you cannot escape combat in DA:O, this actually makes one of Rogue skill to "pretend dead"' useless
Rogues are a waste in DA:O, like warriors, because they're underpowered relative to mages.
Nonsense. Each calss has its own uses, and there's no such thing as 'OP' class. People prefer different playstyles, and that's why we used to have different classes and builds. Mages may hit harder, but they go down like tissue-paper once they got swarmed and\or targetet, even with their buffs on. Not to mention that using AOE requires even more positioning, CC and micromanaging than backstabbing does. Because -surprise!- Friendly Fire...oh, wait, you have turned that thing off, haven't you? 
Nonsense. Each calss has its own uses, and there's no such thing as 'OP' class. People prefer different playstyles, and that's why we used to have different classes and builds. Mages may hit harder, but they go down like tissue-paper once they got swarmed and\or targetet, even with their buffs on. Not to mention that using AOE requires even more positioning, CC and micromanaging than backstabbing does. Because -surprise!- Friendly Fire...oh, wait, you have turned that thing off, haven't you?
I only play on Nightmare, with FF on. That's the only way for the game to even be a minor challenge, and it's not from FF but from the automatic 10% magic failure rate applied to all enemies (even non-dwarves). As for durability - and that's assuming you even get swarmed, which is by no means a remote chance because of inter alia choke points plus CC - you've either got the unlimited healing mana battery BM/SM or the potion chugging unkillable beast of the AW/SM.
Friendly fire doesn't require anywhere near as much art as you're making it out, because enemies start far away and helpfully clustered. While they're rushing towards you, AOE fireball can clean the field. Beyond that, you have cone attacks - that allows you to lay down what is essentially an overlapping field of fire on the mobs charging to their death. DA2 actually made friendly fire far more challenging because of enemy spawns, but that's easy to control via chokepoints (and mages were substantially nerfed in that game).
Let's not forget strategic retreats to choke points - DA:O (and DA2, actually, where people always whine about positioning) has a lot of corridors so it's easy to handle an encounter by simply walking back through the door way and creating a kill zone.
The legendary "arrow to the knee" could actually end a fighting career.
Arrow in the knee is a reference to marriage, it means the guard get married and now need to stop the adventures, something like that.
Ah yes, the Guy at the Gym Fallacy, or "Let's not give the melee classes any cool tricks because that would stretch suspension of disbelief." Because if I'm playing a rogue or a warrior, I definitely want to feel like a luggage-carrier for the mages in my party.
If bottomless quivers are breaking our verisimilitude, why don't we incorporate wear and tear on our weapons and armour while we're at it? Have detrimental effects for lyrium potions? Force our characters to eat food at regular intervals? Those things would be incredibly tedious to deal with, but hey, they're realistic.
Acknowledging that the action exists is a far cry from forcing the players to engage in them. If I want to play a game that forces me to manage my characters' biological needs then I'll play the Sims.
Also, I think that it's specifically stated in at least one of the games that rogues are not necessarily thieves. The distinction between warrior and rogue, if I remember correctly, stems more from the philosophy from which a fighter approaches combat. Warriors may tend to approach combat from a more straightforward standpoint and rogues may, as a general trend, opt more for finesse or deception, but they are still both fighters at the end of the day. A rogue Hawke was still a soldier just like Carver and Aveline were.
Either way, it would be foolish to have a character class that's more of a liability than a boon in combat unless the game was drastically different than any of the three DA games we've had so far.
Rogues are a waste in DA:O, like warriors, because they're underpowered relative to mages. That's the problem with every class in DA:O, in fact. That a single end-game rogue has high single-target damage doesn't really do much when a mage just blows it straight out of the water, and you get a huge plethora of superior utility powers. Not to mention you have to play the positioning micro-manage game the entire time to actually get value out of your rogue (if you're going for a backstab build). All that time babysitting is just time you're not alpha-striking with a mage.
As for one-shotting mages, that's called Mana Clash, and it's AOE.
The only reason to bring a warrior along in DA:O was the fact that the game didn't let you have 4 mages.
Acknowledging that the action exists is a far cry from forcing the players to engage in them. If I want to play a game that forces me to manage my characters' biological needs then I'll play the Sims.
Also, I think that it's specifically stated in at least one of the games that rogues are not necessarily thieves. The distinction between warrior and rogue, if I remember correctly, stems more from the philosophy from which a fighter approaches combat. Warriors may tend to approach combat from a more straightforward standpoint and rogues may, as a general trend, opt more for finesse or deception, but they are still both fighters at the end of the day. A rogue Hawke was still a soldier just like Carver and Aveline were.
Either way, it would be foolish to have a character class that's more of a liability than a boon in combat unless the game was drastically different than any of the three DA games we've had so far.
Wrong. So very wrong.
Rogues can be magekillers, especially with the Legionnaire Scout specialty. Stealth can get the rogue near the mage, Dirty Fighting can root them long enough to get in a few quick shots, and it's over. Even some archery skills can end a mage.
As for micromanaging, the mage needs the most micromanagement for the AoE spells. Warriors and rogues can be scripted to just attack and use abilities as needed. For positioning, all you have to do is point to where you want them to move, and that's it.
Mages also don't do that much damage. The only thing that makes mages formidable is all their root abilities, and the advantage of restoring mana with lyrium. Warriors and rogues were given this advantage with Stamina Draughts. Which by then isn't even really needed that much since warriors got Second Wind. But yeah, mages are only worth it because of the roots, mana replenishment, and damage to large groups at once in some cases.
If a warrior resists a mage's Fireball, watch out. If a rogue goes into Stealth, watch out. And without warriors and rogues, the mage has no time to cast spells. The warriors draws the threat.
True, a Properly build Rogue or Warrior can bring on the hurt on any mage. Conversely it is the truth with a properly build Mage can bring the hurt on any Rogue and Warrior.
Ah yes, the Guy at the Gym Fallacy, or "Let's not give the melee classes any cool tricks because that would stretch suspension of disbelief." Because if I'm playing a rogue or a warrior, I definitely want to feel like a luggage-carrier for the mages in my party.
If bottomless quivers are breaking our verisimilitude, why don't we incorporate wear and tear on our weapons and armour while we're at it? Have detrimental effects for lyrium potions? Force our characters to eat food at regular intervals? Those things would be incredibly tedious to deal with, but hey, they're realistic.
Their are so, so many very cool things you can do without going straight to scorpion harpoons and over flashy magical effects, just watch actual hema matches to see some of the nuts things they do, that look great and would have be a 'special attack' in game. Armour piercing attacks by half swording, throws, body slams, pommel strikes then we add in fantasy by climbing on the huge ass monsters, magic via weapons and armor abilities, weapon variety with thrown weapons added, axes, spears, knives, then their are other techniques based around the weapon you are using, and you get to a huge number of animations and fluff to reduce the 'sword mage' aspects. while keep abilities and specials intact.
In my opinion, Mana Clash makes mages better mage killers than rogues could hope to be. It kills almost anything that uses mana instantly and with much less risk than a rogue and it benefits from being AOE.
In my opinion, Mana Clash makes mages better mage killers than rogues could hope to be. It kills almost anything that uses mana instantly and with much less risk than a rogue and it benefits from being AOE.
In my opinion, Mana Clash makes mages better mage killers than rogues could hope to be. It kills almost anything that uses mana instantly and with much less risk than a rogue and it benefits from being AOE.
I never use mana clash.
Because it usually causes a ctd for me.
In my opinion, Mana Clash makes mages better mage killers than rogues could hope to be. It kills almost anything that uses mana instantly and with much less risk than a rogue and it benefits from being AOE.
Yeah, though probably not just Mana Clash, but the Glyph of Neutralization as well as some of the root spells.
I'm fine with Mana Clash remaining as it is, but I think the enemies could have been a little better at surviving it. Having sustained abilities on that reduce the mana pool would have been a good way to mitigate Mana Clash. So the only thing that makes mages better mage killers is the fact that enemy mages do almost nothing to defend against Mana Clash. At best they can only cast a spell shield.
We should also keep in mind that if Mana Clash were used by enemies, party mages would be considered terribly weak. Or else they would need high magic resistance items and such.
Think of how bad it was as a mage fighting the templars in the Circle. A Holy Smite wasn't instant death, but it technically was because it stunned mages long enough for the templar to run up and kill them. Mana Clash would likely kill them instantly. And then there's no way to revive them.
Spirit School Arcane Warrior is overpowered Templar, far better than any Templar ever existed in Thedas
Even without the Arcane Warrior specialization, Spirit School Mages is by nature Anti-Mage, in which i found it funny and ironic, because Spirit School magic making Templar is not needed, Mages can handle themselves, no need for a religious group to police them. It don't make any sense.
Spirit School Arcane Warrior is overpowered Templar, far better than any Templar ever existed in Thedas
Even without the Arcane Warrior specialization, Spirit School Mages is by nature Anti-Mage, in which i found it funny and ironic, because Spirit School magic making Templar is not needed, Mages can handle themselves, no need for a religious group to police them. It don't make any sense.
Mage duels, dispels, and counter-spells have long been a Fantasy standard; does not mean they will police themselves. Such displays of power may even lead the non-Mage citizens to fear such power; hence the call for those like Templars.
As for the topic, if one does not like certain effects and abilities for their non-Mages, don't select them. Or if one must select one as a pre-req, simply choose not to use it. There are plenty of other abilities from which to choose.
Non-Mages fear powers of Mages also a cliche in Fantasy standard, "people fear something non-ordinary/unusual/unexplained" and "people fear what they don't understand" is a common trope and almost a stereotype...human are actually not that stupid, but continuous brainwashing by medias, religious leaders and politicians with their own agendas lead to bigotry and that what makes things happen...or else there is no issue because human are able understand and learn differences, that what makes us human a human and survive million of years living on this planet...The stereotype must be kept alive for reason, for control...human are controlled through fear.
People with power will surely abuse power is also a cliche and stereotype, a Police officer will not just shoot people because he/she have a gun, the same logic apply to people with magical power on their hand. Of course some powerful people will abuse power, but not all and not all who have power have the same mindset. Just because you have power, doesn't mean you want to abuse it just because you can. So, in this context, not all Mages will want power over people by abusing their magic, not all Mages have the same mindset, and some might disagree with the abuser. in short, Mages can police themselves, the same way normal society policing.The word "police" itself comes from "policy", it depends on who make the "policies".
As for the topic, sadly Dragon Age is hybrid-friendly, as many modern games nowadays, almost everything have magical effects, it is because Dragon Age is a meltdown game that use the old D&D mechanic, to please the new generation crowds who love something that look "awesome" and "cool" fast combat dealing tons of damage, not the clunky boring hack and slash...most of medieval-fantasy RPG characters now are magic-hybrid in their skills
Non-Mages fear powers of Mages also a cliche in Fantasy standard, "people fear something non-ordinary/unusual/unexplained" and "people fear what they don't understand" is a common trope and almost a stereotype...human are actually not that stupid, but continuous brainwashing by medias, religious leaders and politicians with their own agendas lad to bigotry and that what makes things happen...or else there is no issue because human are able understand and learn differences, that what makes us human a human and survive million of years living on this planet...The stereotype must be kept alive for reason, for control...human are controlled through fear.
People with power will surely abuse power is also a cliche and stereotype, a Police officer will not just shoot people because he/she have a gun, the same logic apply to people with magical power on their hand. Of course some powerful people will abuse power, but not all and not all who have power have the same mindset. Just because you have power, doesn't mean you want to abuse it just because you can. So, in this context, not all Mages will want power over people by abusing their magic, not all Mages have the same mindset, and some might disagree with the abuser. in short, Mages can police themselves, the same way normal society policing.The word "police" itself comes from "policy", it depends on who make the "policies".
As for the topic, sadly Dragon Age is hybrid-friendly, as many modern games nowadays, almost everything have magical effects, it is because Dragon Age is a meltdown game that use the old D&D mechanic, to please the new generation crowds who love something that look "awesome" and "cool" fast combat dealing tons of damage, not the clunky boring hack and slash...most of medieval-fantasy RPG characters now are magic-hybrid in their skills
There was a little bit of that even in DA:O, but I do feel that it's been getting more pronounced as the series goes on. It's rather annoying to me, because not only are the classes being separated and pigeon-holed much more on the one hand -- there are many things that you can't do as a warrior or rogue now that you could do in the first game -- but they're all becoming flashier and more reliant on abilities that really require quite a lot of suspension of disbelief. Personally, when I play a warrior, I prefer to play somebody who uses their skill with weapons to defeat their enemies, but somebody who has inexplicable supernatural powers with those weapons. I do generally prefer playing melee characters (well, melee characters with backup ranged capability would be nice), so it has been bothering me.
You can easily have non-magical classes be highly useful without giving them magical seeming abilities, but apparently that's not what most people want (or it's not what game developers think most people want -- hard to tell).
Back in DA:O there were a lot of different ways to make an effective character from each class, including different weapon styles and reliance on different stats. Where they all equally effective? No, but it was entirely possible to make a very good character in several different ways. That wasn't possible in DA II, and it's not even possible to make a differently built character at all in DA:I. It really does take a lot of the fun out of replaying the game for me, and a not insignificant portion out even playing through the game the first time.
Lost me at "humans are actually not that stupid"....
For DAI, I took a suggestion to help with vertigo, and turned down Effects Quality to Low; highly recommended. It reduces flash, glare, and smoke density; also seems to make the spells and FX more natural in appearance, and improves FPS.
FWIW: The gaming crowd seems at least as prejudicial and biased as the other side, if not more so. Have been playing RPG's since '75, and have been a liaison for both sides. IMO, of course.
Today generation of gamers don't value art much, but playing for leisure, because today gamers are impatient and emotional, that's why gaming culture changed and developers following that trend for money. This is social study you know, kids nowadays are whiny, demanding, quick to react, this goes into gaming culture....and with internet, it become worse...not like before where gamers play alone in their room, patiently, silently, there is nothing to prove to anyone....but today most gamers want to prove something through games they play. That's why game mechanic must be fast, flashy and magical because these are "cool factor" and making kids open their mouth in awe....
Today generation of gamers don't value art much, but playing for leisure, because today gamers are impatient and emotional, that's why gaming culture changed and developers following that trend for money. This is social study you know, kids nowadays are whiny, demanding, quick to react, this goes into gaming culture....and with internet, it become worse...not like before where gamers play alone in their room, patiently, silently, there is nothing to prove to anyone....but today most gamers want to prove something through games they play. That's why game mechanic must be fast, flashy and magical because these are "cool factor" and making kids open their mouth in awe....
Huh, I've heard this somewhere before...
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