638 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm wondering if anyone is trying to follow who's coming into the company, not just those that are leaving. The BW teams don't make an announcement every time that they bring in a new employee. I seriously doubt that EA/BW would leave those positions vacant. Many times, people train up their replacement for some time in advance.

I can respect where some of the posters might be coming from, but it seems like some folks only want to focus on the negative. No, these departures don't look great, but I'm not going to stress it. For all we know, the people coming into fill those postitions could improve the game. I get being cynical, but these changes could be for the better. Plus, I'd curious to see what the BW-Montreal team could do without spreading themselves between 5 different platforms across two generations of consoles.

Besides, this delay isn't bad. I've been hoping for FFXV for over 10 years, and it still has no release date. I'd call it vaporware, except once every few years Square-Enix has gone, "See, footage! Clips! The game is still there. Meanwhile, play our newest FFVII spin off." My husband has been a Starcraft fan since the game first came out and that took about a decade to get an actual sequel. If it hits 2018 and there is still not much news, then I'll get worried.

Edit: I wanted to mention that it's very possible that someone goes through all the trouble of suing a company over a video game, and still lose. That's a no-brainer, but attorney and court fees fees, time away from work and months in a courtroom doesn't strike me as a good idea. There's even legal prescients that have shown that this is likely a fool's errand. If someone wants to try, they can knock themselves out. It's silly to me, but eh, the world is a silly place.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Obviously we reach a juncture of opinion here. When i pull on the threads of exploration in games, id prefer they were all interesting. I want a single playthrough to be enjoyable. I infer you want more options/customisation/exploration and dont care if the occasional one is quite boring.

You want quantity over quantity, so long as this facilitates what you called "customisation & role playing".

Ultimately though, consumer and critic consensus will shape future games. You have what you like, and I have what I like. I thought I read correctly that consumer and critic consensus was shifting. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see with ME:A i guess.



Okay, the only reason I've engaged both of you is you have both made erroneous claims about DA:I having only 4 skill slots for false reasons. (EG, there being 4 active skills due to parity with MP). Even after I put ALL the facts on the table, that any reasonable person will not be able to refute, you still insist on spreading lies about this. I'm honestly confused.

Unlike the other instance where I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible... here I will just tell it how it is:

> I don't remember any ME vocations having that many unique active skills. I don't know that I'd count ammo skills...

Okay, but you are implicitly agreeing that there were 6 classes in the SP game with more than 4 active skills, and 60 classes in the MP game with only 4 active skills, but you "dont count some of the actives". Common man, this is BS. There ARE 10 skill bar slots, and different classes will use some or most of these 10 binds, and they will ALWAYS use more than 4. At the very least you would have to concede the extra skill you can always add on the end from any class.

When you chose one of the 60 subclasses in ME3 MP, assuming there is an ammo type at all for a soldier class, you only get to have one ammo type out of 4 possible ammo types assuming there is an ammo type at all, and it becomes 1/4 of the skills you are allocated. Everything about what you are saying is agreeing with what I said but weaseling you way out of admitting you were wrong.

The situation you have in ME3 is that you have 4 actives in MP, but many more in SP. There is literally no way you can argue against these facts. You cant use SP/MP parity as a reason, you can only use the developers quote "design decision to have less choices and place more meaning on those choices".

Everything you are saying about the MP argument for ME3 indicates you've never actually played ME3 on PC, only on console, (therefore, you've always been stuck with gimped active abilities anyway).

Conclusion: there is absolutely no way you can claim that it HAD to be parity with MP, because they could have just done exactly what they did with their previous game, ME3. Conversely, you could claim they CHOSE to have parity as a design decision (which is what I was saying originally).

> I don't really care what the developers said about it. DAI controls were no more 'optimized for console' than DAO or DA2.... and I know there is a lot behind design decisions that is never shared with the public at large

Okay, here you are literally just talking our your arse. "You dont care what the developers said"... "I know a lot about the design decisions but i would never share"... I mean common man. All your comment history shows you are a typical user like us and based on how many facts you get wrong, I wouldnt believe you have access to this information in a million years.

Lets ignore your claims of inside information and just address the point about skill design.

So, ultimately, when we talk about the game being "optimized for console". We are only talking about one thing. PC features being removed, for parity with console. I would be generous and call this word 'optimisation' rather than a downgrade.

So, lets consider the previous versions of dragon age over DA:I

PC DA:O
Active skills = 10+

PC DA:I
Active skills = 4.

When we are talking about it being "optimized for console", we are not talking about DA:I on console being more optimized for console over the previous games. We are talking about DA:I on PC being more optimized for console games.

You arnt seeing people complaining about DA:I on console right? Because is 100% irrelevant. In fact, its the 100% opposite. People who used to play DA on console had frustrations in the past, and they are thankful the game was finally designed with them in mind, the UI was simplified.

The people you see complaining are those on PC, that preferred to be able to explore combat active skills and now have less variety (which is ironic, because before you were defending exploration/role playing, now you are saying its fine to cut exploration down to 1/3 of its original). People playing DA:I on PC now have a 'downgraded/limited/optimized' game, and this was optimized for console.

Its like you dont even understand the context of the argument because you keep making points that are 100% irrelevant.

Seriously man, the next time you are having a debate online about video games... dont pretend like you have secret friends at the game studio because it makes you look ridiculous.

I hate responding on my phone so this will be short. Maybe I'll expand on my thoughts at home if I remember.

It's entirely possible that you are both right. It could be a combination of many factors that helped shape DAI.

This discussion is also way off topic.

Also common has a different meaning from come on.

[Killroy]

I hold that implication isn't real, therefore the inference comes 100% from the inferer.

 

If your conclusion does not follow deductively, then you should not be confident in it.

 

That's completely silly and illogical. Most of advertising is implication and inference. Why do you think so many advertisements focus less on the product than the pretty people selling it and the location the ad was filmed/shot? 

 

"Buy this car and you'll get this girl."

"Buy this food and you'll look like this hunk."

"Buy this computer and you'll live in a big house like this."

 

Implications and inferences are the point.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I hate responding on my phone so this will be short. Maybe I'll expand on my thoughts at home if I remember.

It's entirely possible that you are both right. It could be a combination of many factors that helped shape DAI.

This discussion is also way off topic.

Also common has a different meaning from come on.

 

 

OK I'll expand on this.

 

First off, lets look at what the developers have confirmed.

 

1. The core gameplay was built on a failed multiplayerDragon Age game

2. Most of their sales come from consoles

3. They want to sell tons of units (duh)

 

Second, lets look at some 'inferences'(?) and assumptions

 

Action game play in recent games, especially MMO's  appear to be popular. Their features include only having a few available skills at any one time. Compare to SWTOR, which has dozens of available skills and isn't doing so well. Obviously SWTOR's skills have nothing to do with why it isn't popular, but different people may make different conclusions. Who knows. We are talking about the developer that changed the DAO gameplay to be more 'actiony' and added other qualities of their popular ME2 game to DA2. (iconic looks, ME style romance storylines etc)

 

Action RPG's are often controller based, and often multiplayer of some sort.

 

Action gameplay, whether in SP or MP, tends to be quicker and holds peoples attention more, (maybe?) than the DAO style of play.

 

I'm imagining the dev's thought processes and discussions to have gone along these lines:

 

"So lets talk about the next Dragon Age game"

"Well, we know it needs multiplayer. Our overlords said so"

"Sure, but the existing DA game play is more team based than Mass Effect. That doesn't fit will with multiplayer"

"So make it more like an action RPG. Have AI controlled followers like ME"

"You know, there's that failed Dragon Age MMO game. Why don't we build the multiplayer based on that, and add Single player and story to it"

"Sure, its already designed for multiplayer, its perfect"

"Well, since its an action rpg style we have fewer ability slots"

"Yeah but we can add to those for single player, just use one of the triggers to double the selection"

"OK that brings us to 8 from 4. Still less than what the previous games had"

"We can spin it to sound better, don't worry about it"

"Wait, on PC we can have way more abilities available at one time. Are we going to have a separate UI for them?"

"Pfft no, who plays on PC still anyway? "

"Fine, they can have a hotbar across the bottom for abilities, but still only 8, for consistency and balance issues. All other UI components can simply be mapped from controller to keyboard "

"Wait, what about pause and play, and the tactical camera? These have been staples in all Dragon Age games"

"Pause and play doesn't work in multiplayer, so not important."

"Players will scream at that. How about we add a second mode where they can enter tactical view, pause, and control their team, just like before"

"Sounds good, mock up something in the new engine, see how it will work"

"OK, one more thing, you mentioned mapping to keyoard. What about mouse mapping?"

"What's a mouse?"

[Maniccc]

All games get delayed....  It's no big deal.  Game will be bad anyway, so relax.

[prosthetic soul]

All games get delayed....  It's no big deal.  Game will be bad anyway, so relax.

I wouldn't be so sure.  I wish I had your optimism but the signs which have reared their ugly head are just that.  Very very ugly. And scary.

 

There is only one reason four different big names leave the company (and the industry in one case).  And that's disgruntlement with upper management (read: EA).  These are very troubling signs.  I have seen it happen before.  There is a reason Chris Priestly went to CDPR to moderate there.  It wasn't because he was trying to make amends that's for damn sure.  The mice aren't just fleeing the sinking ship-they're actively trying to find better employment else where to mitigate damage to....whatever it is they are respectively concerned about.  Something terrible is going on over there at EA.  And I do not like it. 

 

This is what happens when there isn't an online relationship between customer/fan and the developers.  The wolves start howling at the door. 

[Just Here For Popcorns]

[Killroy]

I wouldn't be so sure. I wish I had your optimism but the signs which have reared their ugly head are just that. Very very ugly. And scary.

There is only one reason four different big names leave the company (and the industry in one case). And that's disgruntlement with upper management (read: EA). These are very troubling signs. I have seen it happen before. There is a reason Chris Priestly went to CDPR to moderate there. It wasn't because he was trying to make amends that's for damn sure. The mice aren't just fleeing the sinking ship-they're actively trying to find better employment else where to mitigate damage to....whatever it is they are respectively concerned about. Something terrible is going on over there at EA. And I do not like it.

This is what happens when there isn't an online relationship between customer/fan and the developers. The wolves start howling at their door.

This is all hair-on-fire fear mongering. Four big names haven't left. That's demonstrably false. One of those "big names" was a middle management pencil pusher and another "big name" was so unknown it was days before anyone even noticed her PUBLIC resignation. A resignation, btw, which hasn't happened yet. She was so disillusioned with the company that she decided to stick around for a few more months and say nothing but great things instead of just quietly leaving? And why would she leave the industry if it was just EA/BioWare that she had problems with? And why do all the people leaving happen to be Amwricans that are moving back to America? Did BioWare make them all hate Canada as well?

Stop trying to get everyone to throw childish tantrums with you and Revan.

[prosthetic soul]

This is all hair-on-fire, simple-minded fear mongering. Four big names haven't left. That's demonstrably false. One of those "big names" was a middle management pencil pusher and another "big name" was so unknown it was days before anyone even noticed her PUBLIC resignation. A resignation, btw, which hasn't happened yet. She was so disillusioned with the company that she decided to stick around for a few more months and say nothing but great things instead of just quietly leaving? And why would she leave the industry if it was just EA/BioWare that she had problems with? And why do all the people leaving happen to be Amwricans that are moving back to America? Did BioWare make them all hate Canada as well?

Stop trying to get everyone to throw childish tantrums with you and Revan.

It's not simple minded at all though.  It's a logical inference based on empirical evidence and common sense.  It's hair on fire with good reason.  Because you have a feeling your hair is effing on fire.  Or, at the very least, someone's scalp is currently suffering from seborrhea dermatitis.  (look it up if you want to know what I'm talking about.)  I am done spoon feeding. And to whom are you posing those innumerable questions ?  Me?  Or yourself?

[Killroy]

It's not simple minded at all though. It's a logical inference based on empirical evidence and common sense. It's hair on fire with good reason. Because you have a feeling your hair is effing on fire. Or, at the very least, someone's scalp is currently suffering from seborrhea dermatitis. (look it up if you want to know what I'm talking about.) I am done spoon feeding. And to whom are you posing those innumerable questions ? Me? Or yourself?

Ah, the old "look how smart I am" defense. You're demonstrably wrong. Period. You can try to spin it all you want but it's still pointless, silly fear mongering.

[pdusen]

It's not simple minded at all though.  It's a logical inference based on empirical evidence and common sense. 

 

Don't use terms like "empirical evidence" or "common sense" when it's clear you have no idea what they mean. You'd have empirical evidence if you had, say, a message written by one of the people who quit explaining that they're leaving because something terrible's happening.

 

You don't have that. You have a handful of people of variable importance who have left a company with over 800 employees over the course of months, all of whom have said nothing but good things about Bioware. You have nothing.

 

Basically, you're just here stirring the pot because it gives you your kicks.

[Sanunes]

It's not simple minded at all though.  It's a logical inference based on empirical evidence and common sense.  It's hair on fire with good reason.  Because you have a feeling your hair is effing on fire.  Or, at the very least, someone's scalp is currently suffering from seborrhea dermatitis.  (look it up if you want to know what I'm talking about.)  I am done spoon feeding. And to whom are you posing those innumerable questions ?  Me?  Or yourself?

 

I haven't seen any evidence aside from two people left to work back in the United States and one went to work for Bungie after working at 343 Studios.  Past experiences have told me if a person leaves because they are unhappy at the studio that information gets leaked out quickly.  The evidence we have seen is that people aren't upset when leaving BioWare they are looking for new opportunities.  Now I could see people saying BIoWare is troubled if there were the rumors about the game like there was with Destiny when people left Bungie, but I haven't seen any of that just random speculation about how the company is trouble because people are making their own jumps to conclusions.

[goishen]

Don't use terms like "empirical evidence" or "common sense" when it's clear you have no idea what they mean. You'd have empirical evidence if you had, say, a message written by one of the people who quit explaining that they're leaving because something terrible's happening.

 

You don't have that. You have a handful of people of variable importance who have left a company with over 800 employees over the course of months, all of whom have said nothing but good things about Bioware. You have nothing.

 

Basically, you're just here stirring the pot because it gives you your kicks.

 

 

Conjecture.  "I can't prove anything.  But I know something nefarious is going on."

[UpUpAway]

Conjecture.  "I can't prove anything.  But I know something nefarious is going on."

 

That "something" is more than likely the general economic downturn occurring in Canada right now.  It's being most heavily felt in Alberta, where huge layoffs have been occurring in the oil industry for months... but Canada's overall economy has been historically very dependent on Alberta's wealth.  Alberta sneezes and Canada gets a cold.  When the economy in Canada "goes a bit south" a lot of the Americans working in Canada "go south" as well.  It's a cycle that has happened many, many times before.  To top it all off, gaming programming is a very "mobile" industry with lots of turnovers regularly occurring as projects finish and start up in other companies.  That is, they "raid" each other  - other companies will offer incentives to the talented people to jump ship.   It likely has nothing to do with any personal employee dissatisfaction with Bioware.

[goishen]

That "something" is more than likely the general economic downturn occurring in Canada right now.  It's being most heavily felt in Alberta, where huge layoffs have been occurring in the oil industry for months... but Canada's overall economy has been historically very dependent on Alberta's wealth.  Alberta sneezes and Canada gets a cold.  When the economy in Canada "goes a bit south" a lot of the Americans working in Canada "go south" as well.  It's a cycle that has happened many, many times before.  To top it all off, gaming programming is a very "mobile" industry with lots of turnovers regularly occurring as projects finish and start up in other companies.  That is, they "raid" each other  - other companies will incentives to the talented people to jump ship.   It likely has nothing to do with any personal employee dissatisfaction with Bioware.

 

 

Fair enough.  But I was saying that something with EA/BioWare was nefarious.  But your reasoning is just as, if not more, sound.

[Killroy]

I haven't seen any evidence aside from two people left to work back in the United States and one went to work for Bungie after working at 343 Studios.  Past experiences have told me if a person leaves because they are unhappy at the studio that information gets leaked out quickly.  The evidence we have seen is that people aren't upset when leaving BioWare they are looking for new opportunities.  Now I could see people saying BIoWare is troubled if there were the rumors about the game like there was with Destiny when people left Bungie, but I haven't seen any of that just random speculation about how the company is trouble because people are making their own jumps to conclusions.

 

Aside from David Gaider, who had no involvement with MEA, every employee who has left BioWare recently is American and going back to America. And aside from the writer, who was brought in specifically for MEA and worked on the game for more than a year, no one of importance has left the MEA team. Everyone who's doomsaying and insisting that the sky is falling is simply a petulant child, acting up because they're not getting as much MEA news as they want.

[Sanunes]

Aside from David Gaider, who had no involvement with MEA, every employee who has left BioWare recently is American and going back to America. And aside from the writer, who was brought in specifically for MEA and worked on the game for more than a year, no one of importance has left the MEA team. Everyone who's doomsaying and insisting that the sky is falling is simply a petulant child, acting up because they're not getting as much MEA news as they want.

 

My personal belief is that any news about any BioWare game would be taken in a more negative light by groups of people.

[SofaJockey]

Basically, you're just here stirring the pot because it gives you your kicks.

 

Possibly pretty much this, though that is of itself not a big deal,

because all of us who visit these forums (more or less regularly) are just spinning plates until EA Play in the summer.

 

The moderators are hardly touching the forum (understandably) because until EA Play, as MEA remains in public hiatus/development.

 

I recall when the forum 'lights switched on' for DAI around 5 months pre-initial launch date,

suddenly sub-forums popped up and moderators were visible again to tend to the new arrivals aside of the established obsessives and tumbleweeds.

 

Enjoy it while it lasts because the fairly free ability we have share, grumble and snipe at each other, has around 3-4 months to run I reckon.

 

And lets face it, the only people on these forums at the moment are the seriously invested, regardless of their differing world views,

so you kind of have to respect our respective dedication for continuing to have discussions with great passion, optimism / cynicism
when frankly there is bugger all to discuss, don't you? 

[Killroy]

My personal belief is that any news about any BioWare game would be taken in a more negative light by groups of people.

 

Sure, but those people are chomping at the bit for anything to crap on. That's why unknown editors and members of middle management are now very important developers that BioWare can't live without. Without things to crap on and lose their minds over they make things up.

[SofaJockey]

HR statistic (my day job):

 

Around 15% staff turnover gives the perfect blend of new blood and ideas to supplement experience and continuity.

Too little staff turnover can be just as bad as too much.

[prosthetic soul]

Don't use terms like "empirical evidence" or "common sense" when it's clear you have no idea what they mean. You'd have empirical evidence if you had, say, a message written by one of the people who quit explaining that they're leaving because something terrible's happening.

 

You don't have that. You have a handful of people of variable importance who have left a company with over 800 employees over the course of months, all of whom have said nothing but good things about Bioware. You have nothing.

 

Basically, you're just here stirring the pot because it gives you your kicks.

how about addressing my argument instead of putting words in my mouth and assuming what my intentions are?  You know, an assumption is quite different from an inference.  Assuming makes an ass out of u and me, while inference is a calculated guess.  But no, clearly I am trying to stir trouble for no reason even though a handful of people have abandoned ship DURING production of Mass Effect Andromeda.

[Sartoz]

I wouldn't be so sure.  I wish I had your optimism but the signs which have reared their ugly head are just that.  Very very ugly. And scary.

 

There is only one reason four different big names leave the company (and the industry in one case).  And that's disgruntlement with upper management (read: EA).  These are very troubling signs.  I have seen it happen before.  There is a reason Chris Priestly went to CDPR to moderate there.  It wasn't because he was trying to make amends that's for damn sure.  The mice aren't just fleeing the sinking ship-they're actively trying to find better employment else where to mitigate damage to....whatever it is they are respectively concerned about.  Something terrible is going on over there at EA.  And I do not like it. 

 

This is what happens when there isn't an online relationship between customer/fan and the developers.  The wolves start howling at the door. 

                                                                                      <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

I doubt EA is concerned about Bio day-to-day activities. Mostly, it would be policy (ie: mp + micro$transactions + "make it easy for people to learn the game").

[Killroy]

how about addressing my argument instead of putting words in my mouth and assuming what my intentions are?  You know, an assumption is quite different from an inference.  Assuming makes an ass out of u and me, while inference is a calculated guess.  But no, clearly I am trying to stir trouble for no reason even though a handful of people have abandoned ship DURING production of Mass Effect Andromeda.

 

Dude, you've already been squashed. No one is biting. Troll somewhere else.

[correctamundo]

Don't use terms like "empirical evidence" or "common sense" when it's clear you have no idea what they mean. You'd have empirical evidence if you had, say, a message written by one of the people who quit explaining that they're leaving because something terrible's happening.

 

You don't have that. You have a handful of people of variable importance who have left a company with over 800 employees over the course of months, all of whom have said nothing but good things about Bioware. You have nothing.

 

Basically, you're just here stirring the pot because it gives you your kicks.

 

He has seborrheic dermatitis. Clearly it's itching.

[CronoDragoon]

Clearly something troubling is happening at BioWare right now. Just look at the awful things David Gaider had to say:

 

David Gaider ‏@davidgaider Mar 9

Yes, I get it. There's a narrative about BioWare you *really* want to be true, but the truth that it's a great place is too boring. Got it.

 

If that isn't damning proof of disgruntlement, I don't know what is.