Questa discussione ha avuto 121 risposte

[dragonflight288]

Here's a good hint at how Hawke gets away with it.

 

Bribe's work. Bribery was involved in getting them in the city itself. Either the Red Irons or the smugglers keep the templars off Hawke's/Bethany's back for a year through bribes, Hawke disappears into the deep roads when templars are asking questions (Varric says he knows the templars are, which is why they have to get out of the city as well as try and earn money, hence the expedition,) and then either Carver is a templar and helping cover Hawke's tracks or Hawke is now a high-noble with the coin to, surprise surprise, bribe.

 

Having a friend as guard captain also helps.

 

Then popularity makes it politically stupid to arrest Hawke after Act 2. 

 

That's how I see it at any rate. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

What I find funny is the character Dalish in Inquisition is almost a guaranteed reference to this. 

 

 

 

Considering a trespasser codex pretty much says people buy her schtick, it's safe to say the people of Thedas are morons.

[Obadiah]

It is a cringe-worthy plot inconsistency, especially given the robe outfits Hawke can wear, the staffs shooting energy. and so many fights in the city where Hawke uses magic.

This may be the last time Hawke plausibly looked like a non-mage

[Cute Nug]

I guess since 90% of the mages you meet in DA2 are abominations, evil blood mages, a serial killer, or a harvester monster a regular mage killing hundreds in people in Kirkwall with magic over the years doesn't seem that noticeable.

[straykat]

It is a cringe-worthy plot inconsistency, especially given the robe outfits Hawke can wear, the staffs shooting energy. and so many fights in the city where Hawke uses magic.

This may be the last time Hawke plausibly looked like a non-mage

 

I hate to say it, but the DLC armor helps with that at least. It should've been in the main game.

 

Malcolm's gear looks like mock Chantry gear and the other one is typical Orlesian garb with a mask.

[Lazarillo]

Malcolm's gear looks like mock Chantry gear and the other one is typical Orlesian garb with a mask.

It's a shame you can't keep the mask on during cutscenes.  Hawke working as a masked Mage vigilante could potentially work pretty well.

[straykat]

It's a shame you can't keep the mask on during cutscenes.  Hawke working as a masked Mage vigilante could potentially work pretty well.

 

Yeah, I try to just headcanon something like that.

 

They even have a mansion and everything

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It's a shame you can't keep the mask on during cutscenes.  Hawke working as a masked Mage vigilante could potentially work pretty well.

 

Yeah, I try to just headcanon something like that.

 

They even have a mansion and everything

 

But a Rogue would be a better vigilante. Most vigilantes are Rogues anyway.

[straykat]

But a Rogue would be a better vigilante. Most vigilantes are Rogues anyway.

 

Sure, I love the Rogue. I veer between both of them.

 

But Mages put Hawke on the level of a bonafide superhuman, secretly doing things few mages get to do. It's a great opportunity for a mage to play a vigilante. And storywise.. it might win people over to mages. To finally see what a cool one is capable of. AND why they're so controversial.

 

With a rogue, I emphasize the immigrant status a bit more.. an immigrant/Ferelden doing remarkable things. The mage story only comes into play at the end.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Sure, I love the Rogue. I veer between both of them.

 

But Mages put Hawke on the level of a bonafide superhuman, secretly doing things few mages get to do. It's a great opportunity for a mage to play a vigilante. And storywise.. it might win people over to mages. To finally see what a cool one is capable of. AND why they're so controversial.

 

With a rogue, I emphasize the immigrant status a bit more.. an immigrant/Ferelden doing remarkable things. The mage story only comes into play at the end.

 

Trains to be superhuman > Born as a superhuman.

 

Rogue > Mage.

 

At least on the coolness scale.

[straykat]

Trains to be superhuman > Born as a superhuman.

 

Rogue > Mage.

 

At least on the coolness scale.

 

Maybe you're right. I still love Rogue Hawke.

 

Lately though, I switched the Quizzy to be the Rogue and settled on Mage Hawke again. And funnily, Bioware says in their art book DAI is their "signature" Rogue. I think they could have done better at that though. It looks like they had an even stronger Rogue image at one point. For some reason, they switched the game cover to a Warrior.

[Catilina]

Trains to be superhuman > Born as a superhuman.

 

Rogue > Mage.

 

At least on the coolness scale.

 

A mage is much more efficient: kick the door, AOE, loot, honor.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

A mage is much more efficient: kick the door, AOE, loot, honor.

 

A Rogue is much cooler.

 

 

Find me a Mage that can do all of that.

[Catilina]

A Rogue is much cooler.

Cooler than a frost mage? I dont think…

 

 

Find me a Mage that can do all of that.

Just watch (at 3:15)!

 

//indavideo.hu/video/DA2_Qunari_scene

[Sah291]

That's why I like hybrid classes, or characters that push the boundaries of their class in some way. If Hawke is a mage, then I think he/she is an unusual one who can fight close combat. And if Hawke is a warrior or rogue, he/she knows a lot about magic and mages, being the son or daughter and sibling of one. Typically mages and non mages are segregated from each other, but Hawke comes from a mixed family. That's the way I see it.

[straykat]

That's why I like hybrid classes, or characters that push the boundaries of their class in some way. If Hawke is a mage, then I think he/she is an unusual one who can fight close combat. And if Hawke is a warrior or rogue, he/she knows a lot about magic and mages, being the son or daughter and sibling of one. Typically mages and non mages are segregated from each other, but Hawke comes from a mixed family. That's the way I see it.

 

That's a cool way of looking at it. Iconic Mage Armor kinda reflects this too.

 

You could say this about the other characters too. I like a Rogue Quizzy's parallels with Cole, in particular. Both are discovering magic or mundane life, respectfully.

[The Old Guy]

Mage Hawke is pretty realistic to get away with everything in Kirkwall, despite the city being labeled the Templar Capital of Thedas.

Two arguments:

 

1. Since the beginning of the story we see that the Templars are not a monolith body. There are many different groups with different agendas. Some of the knights are pretty descent and often they want to do the right thing. Ergo - they look at mage Hawke objectively. In several quests we see Hawke helping the templars in making things right, saving people, investigating real crimes. In Act of Mercy we even see a templar siding with the mages, commiting treason, in order to save their lives, because he knows what will happen to them. It's pretty possible that Hawke gains the respect of many templars and they cover for him/her. It's also pretty possible he/she becomes very popular among the entire templar order. Why would you pursue and eliminate such a valuable ally, who can act on your behalf in areas, in which you are usually constrained by the order's rules and laws? Thrask, Emerik, Cullen - high-ranking templars - all of them ask Hawke for help and Hawke delivers. Even Meredith respects this apostate, because he/she removes the Qunari threat and, essentially, helps the knight-commander assumes control of the city. Of course the templars would turn a blind eye to his/her apostate status, especially, if they are smart enough.

2. It's a fictional story.

[Catilina]

2. It's a fictional story.

 

The fact that this is a fictional story, I would not bring an argument. In a fictional story the logic is very important. Without logic the story is not credible.

Okay, I know: there are no elves and orcs (for example), but if the world has its own laws and logic, I can believe that they exist. If there is no logic, I do not know how they get there, they will be are not credible.

[huyre]

We go through the prologue with these details, then Cassandra tells him to tell the truth. We replay the prologue with more detail, "normal" Bethany, our post-CC Hawke, and possibly an entirely different looking Hawke family. Varric makes a comment like "Yeah, I liked my version better, too." It seems to me that Varric's version of Hawke is default Hawke unless someone is threatening to stab him. This is important, because it means we're seeing the story Varric is telling, not a listener's interpretation of his story.

 

It would at least explain why only default Hawke of Varric's choice has a bloodsmear across his face. Maybe it has been explained at some point, but even though it looks "unique" it is amusing/weird to think Hawke would apply it to his face every day before he leaves his home.

 

It may be another detail I should not be bothered by, but I always felt that walking around with staffs through Kirkwall (places like Hightown, the Gallows, etc.) was just awkward. If Hawke or another companion had Malcolm's Honor or Freedom's Promise, I think it would certainly shout they are a apostate.

 

Merchants would also sell mage robes and items. I suppose that a blind eye is turned to that? They could use the merchants to track down apostates, but that would not be good for business, if you as merchant are a snitch. And I got the impression that most apostates are somewhat poor (I might be wrong).

 

I was also waiting for the quest to find out who bought the red lyrium. I can't remember why they did not try to track down the idol, but I suppose it was because they could not find out who it was sold to and when?

[straykat]

It would at least explain why only default Hawke of Varric's choice has a bloodsmear across his face. Maybe it has been explained at some point, but even though it looks "unique" it is amusing/weird to think Hawke would apply it to his face every day before he leaves his home.

 

 

In Legacy, Varric and Hawke joke about the smear and exaggerated escape from Lothering. It's not something Hawke actually did.

[vertigomez]

It may be another detail I should not be bothered by, but I always felt that walking around with staffs through Kirkwall (places like Hightown, the Gallows, etc.) was just awkward. If Hawke or another companion had Malcolm's Honor or Freedom's Promise, I think it would certainly shout they are a apostate.

It probably depends on how suspicious people are, more than anything. Even though we don't always see them (bc video game), there are perfectly non-magical people who use walking sticks, polearms, throwing spears, etc.

Of course, we also have a guy in DAI who was killed because some zealots mistook his shovel for a staff, but...
 

Merchants would also sell mage robes and items. I suppose that a blind eye is turned to that? They could use the merchants to track down apostates, but that would not be good for business, if you as merchant are a snitch. And I got the impression that most apostates are somewhat poor (I might be wrong).

Yeah, that's more confusing. It makes sense at Ostagar or in a shady back alley, but in a popular bazaar..? I guess it depends on whether you've seen Hawke and their homies turn people to splatter on your sidewalk. I wouldn't want to rat them out, either.

[huyre]

True, it likely depends on how suspicious people are and how willing they are to get involved in apostate business. I can imagine that people might prefer to just pretend they see and hear nothing "magey", ignoring the suspicious staffs. It might after all invite trouble if you rat them out to the nearest templar; the mage could evade the templars and s/he or her/his friends could take revenge.

 

In Ferelden in DA:O I remember that the Warden recruits were paranoid of Morrigan (she could turn them in a toad ^^). And in Lothering, with the mage Warden, when you say you are a Warden to the highway men, it leaves a mild impression; they still believe they can take you on. Telling you are a mage makes them literally run for the hills (again, fear of toad powers™). Perhaps it is similar in Kirkwall; mages are too scary to start trouble with.

[Contraire]

Unaffiliated sez you.

 

Hawke is the scion of the Amell family, is friends with the Captain of the Guard, saved the Viscount’s son, and is personally called upon by the Viscount to accomplish tasks he doesn’t trust anyone else with. Hawke also counts Varric as a close personal friend/rival/confident, and we know Varric’s pockets are pretty damn deep. Hawke is pretty damn well connected, and is far from being the political firebrand Anders is. 

 

Hawke has powerful friends and someone is bound to notice that the people who oppose Hawke tend to turn up dead. (Sometimes Qunari are involved.)

 

I note that Bethany is taken to the Circle when neither Hawke (nor Varric’s deep pockets) are around to keep the Templars away. I find it telling the Templars chose their moment to act when the PC was away. What is Hawke going to do afterward? Kidnap their sister and force her on the run again?

 

Kirkwall has a lot of lawbreaking apostates. A lot of them. Some of them are protected by the people of Lowtown playing dumb because they do good; see Anders, who is way less discreet about being a mage and who runs a clinic. Some of them go unnoticed because they’re elves and the alienage is beneath the Templars’ notice unless specifically notified. Some of them are escaped Circle mages, who are priority due to being “Templar property”: can’t really let the mages in the Circle think they can go off on their own, now. Some of them are running around doing blood magic on Templars, and those are the top priority.

 

Hawke simply isn’t a danger to the Chantry the way the latter categories are; the Templars are running themselves ragged enough as it is without casting doubts on that helpful mercenary whom Ser Thrask has worked with and doesn’t complain about.

 

As for the beginning of Act 1, Hawke’s a nobody to the people of Hightown, but they’re a dangerous (wo)man-at-arms who spent one year working for Meeran or Athenril, emphasis on the “dangerous”, would you really want to go rat on them to the Templars? 

[RoseLawliet]

As for the beginning of Act 1, Hawke’s a nobody to the people of Hightown, but they’re a dangerous (wo)man-at-arms who spent one year working for Meeran or Athenril, emphasis on the “dangerous”, would you really want to go rat on them to the Templars? 

 

I doubt very much that the people Meeran or Athenril had Hawke fight were trained templars. In Act 1, someone looking to score brownie points with the viscount (or more likely, Meredith) would just have to advise the templars to come in force. I don't care how awesome Hawke is, superior numbers (who also happen to be well-trained and -disciplined, not to mention able to specifically negate a mage's power) will overwhelm.

 

Also, would the templars coming to arrest Hawke really say "We were tipped off by the Reinhardts that you're an apostate!"? That's... stupid. That would be them throwing their informant under the bus, giving absolutely zero incentive for other people to snitch for them in the future. Sure, it could be a trap and they'd give the informant a protective detail in order to catch more malcontents, but... Come on. People are currently arguing that mage Hawke is believable because the templars are incompetent, so we can't go turning them into the super prepared planners of genius.

[Contraire]

I doubt very much that the people Meeran or Athenril had Hawke fight were trained templars. In Act 1, someone looking to score brownie points with the viscount (or more likely, Meredith) would just have to advise the templars to come in force. I don't care how awesome Hawke is, superior numbers (who also happen to be well-trained and -disciplined, not to mention able to specifically negate a mage's power) will overwhelm.

 

Also, would the templars coming to arrest Hawke really say "We were tipped off by the Reinhardts that you're an apostate!"? That's... stupid. That would be them throwing their informant under the bus, giving absolutely zero incentive for other people to snitch for them in the future. Sure, it could be a trap and they'd give the informant a protective detail in order to catch more malcontents, but... Come on. People are currently arguing that mage Hawke is believable because the templars are incompetent, so we can't go turning them into the super prepared planners of genius.

Sounds like a lot of trouble to go to to bring down the authorities’ attention on your own business.

 

Let’s break it down: first someone needs to notice Hawke’s an apostate. It’s unlikely to be that noticeable, as we know Hawke’s family lived for years in Lothering without been caught and sent to a Circle. Hawke’s not a freshly-escaped Circle mage with no idea how things work outside the Circle, they’re part of the outside. They’re good with people, which we know from the merchants greeting them by name and promising discounts when we start Act 1. So Talkative Man or Drunk Patron are unlikely to be the ones to notice Hawke being a mage.

 

Someone who sees Hawke more often, then. Perhaps one of Gamlen’s neighbours? So advising the Templars to come in force might mean an all-out fight right where you live. Do Lowtown citizens trust Templars to avoid casualties? Let’s assume everything goes right. Let’s assume the neighbor knows to tell the Templars they’re going to need more than two people to bring Hawke in, and the Templars listen, and Hawke doesn’t get away, and you’re not a casualty in the resulting battle. That’s a lot of assumptions, but okay. Then you’re left with Carver Hawke living next door. How likely is it Hawke’s little brother is going to let the issue drop? That Carver’s an angry sort, who might try and track down the one who turned their sibling in. Would you really bet your life or that of your family on a nineteen-year-old with a chip on his shoulder not carrying out their own justice? (Ooooh, has Hawke taken a loan from Donnal? Cause that’d be precious incentive not to turn them in. You wouldn’t want Donnal sending legbreakers after you.)

 

And even if no-one finds out, the Templars know. Templars who go to the Blooming Rose, who gossip – and who know where you live. Informants can be blackmailed.

 

Incidentally, the game makes very little mention of informants for the Templars. IIRC, for the whole of Act 1 and 2 the only person we know informed the Templars someone was a mage was Arianni, and that was about her son. Turning people in for being apostates just doesn’t seem a big part of Kirkwall culture. Again: Anders is a mage much more openly than Hawke and no-one turned him in yet.

 

Ultimately it all comes down to Hawke living a year, a year and a half without being arrested by the Templars. They did more in Lothering.