121 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Catilina]

Come on. People are currently arguing that mage Hawke is believable because the templars are incompetent, so we can't go turning them into the super prepared planners of genius.

I would add: perhaps the "people" arguing that, but i said: Hawke do not use magic on Kirkwall's public street, and he does not seems mage. (He's not foolish and strong/experienced enought to fight without magic...) Few small evidence points to this: for example: the qunari scene (before the qunari's attack); and when Hawke meets with Feynriel's father, Hawke must show directly, that he is also a mage, because his apperance does not show it.

 

(Yes, he use magic and have staff on his back, for game mechanics. We can talk about that stupid technical solutions, not the incredible story)

 

And then there is that the point: in the Act1 he is totally unknown: a "little grungy refugee" in the Lowtown. (His fame only between criminals / mercenaries.)

The templars are not "incompetent" only they have much more problems than a "nobady refugee"... i think.

 

Later Hawke will have really influential defenders and strong position.

[Sah291]

The whole staff on the back thing always makes me laugh, because ALL the characters always have their huge weapons on their backs 24/7. It's annoying in dialogues and romance scenes. I just use a mod to hide the gigantic weapons so they only appear during combat.

But yeah, it's a video game, with huge stylized weapons and effects.

[vertigomez]

The whole staff on the back thing always makes me laugh, because ALL the characters always have their huge weapons on their backs 24/7. It's annoying in dialogues and romance scenes. I just use a mod to hide the gigantic weapons so they only appear during combat.
But yeah, it's a video game, with huge stylized weapons and effects.

"Staves? N-no... we all use, um, walking sticks. We have limps! WATCH US LIMP!" *entire party stumbles around the Gallows*

[straykat]

Thing is, Staves should be more common as normal weapons as well. They're not for our gameplay, but they seem to be in the lore. Like those Tevinter statues in DAO. Or Andruil was said to hunt with a staff or a bow.

 

Funnily, the name "Garrett" (default male) actually means "Rules with the Spear".

[vertigomez]

Thing is, Staves should be more common as normal weapons as well. They're not for our gameplay, but they seem to be in the lore. Like those Tevinter statues in DAO. Or Andruil was said to hunt with a staff or a bow.

Off topic, but I wish we had a greater variety of weapons. The Qunari have throwing spears - I'd like to see flails and non-magic staves and throwing knives like Tallis had. Hnnnnng.
 

Funnily, the name "Garrett" (default male) actually means "Rules with the Spear".

Crap, I don't have a spear. I'm gonna pretend it's a dick joke.

[straykat]

Off topic, but I wish we had a greater variety of weapons. The Qunari have throwing spears - I'd like to see flails and non-magic staves and throwing knives like Tallis had. Hnnnnng.
 

Crap, I don't have a spear. I'm gonna pretend it's a dick joke.

 

Heh..

 

I play Ladyhawke myself... but I could be in on the joke, if I wanted.

 

I wish I could play with Spear and Shield though. Greek style.. There aren't many games like this, but I guess it'd require a unique power set.

[springacres]

Crap, I don't have a spear. I'm gonna pretend it's a dick joke.

"It can be a lot to take in, I know, but..."

 

(My canon is female, but I couldn't resist.)

[Illegitimus]

So... he just added in every obvious display of magic? 

 

No.  While I personally didn't have a Hawke who threw fireballs around, preferring instead to rely on buffs, healing and telekinetic attacks and to get up close and personal when using my "staff" (which works rather better when you are a mage in heavy plate), Hawke's obvious displays of magic only matter if he happens to be doing them right in front of a Templar.  If you're throwing down with bandits in the dingier parts of town you can be as flashy as you want.  Any nonbandits who happen to be peeking out their windows to check out the fireworks aren't going to rush right out and report you to the templars any more than they'll rush right out and report drug dealers to the Guard.  Kirkwall is not some small town in Ferelden and it isn't in the core of Chantry support in Orlais.  Meredith is not in effective charge of Kirkwall because she enjoys popular support or because she has created a city-wide network of covert informers.  She's in charge because she controls the most powerful military force and will kill the Viscount if he openly crosses her.  

 

The Templars are not offering silver to turn in suspected witches (and if they were then they'd get a flood of fraudulent claims because this is Kirkwall).  Kirkwall is a crime-riddled corrupt city where people tend to be out for themselves or just keeping their heads down and trying to avoid attracting attention.  Nobody wants to talk to Meredith.  She's  unpredictable, generally disliked and doesn't trade in favours. .  A mercenary mage who is easily swayed by sob stories?  Less of a problem than Meredith herself as far as Kirkwall is concerned. 

 

(I also liked to screw around with the Black Emporium's mirror so the Templars would never know what I looked like from day to day.)

[Reznore57]

Case of gameplay /story segregation.

An apostate could hide in Kirkwall for sure , a group of apostates fighting crimes (Hawke , Anders , Merrill) in the streets and using magic without a second thought?Not so much.

 

Anyway you're more or less supposed to imagine those characters aren't walking around with mages robes and obvious mages staff on their backs , and when they do fight in the city they use magic to a bare minimum.And don't do magic at all when there's a templar around.

Basically they blend in with other mercenary/outlaws group around town.

[Illegitimus]

Case of gameplay /story segregation.

An apostate could hide in Kirkwall for sure , a group of apostates fighting crimes (Hawke , Anders , Merrill) in the streets and using magic without a second thought?Not so much.

 

Anyway you're more or less supposed to imagine those characters aren't walking around with mages robes and obvious mages staff on their backs , and when they do fight in the city they use magic to a bare minimum.And don't do magic at all when there's a templar around.

Basically they blend in with other mercenary/outlaws group around town.

 

Well..I wasn't.  I suppose you can seek out an obvious mage's robe for Hawk to wear if you want (actually I changed into one just for the scene where I pretend to be a Circle mage) but the armor I wore was...armor even before I went Blood Dragon and my "staff" looked like a pike.  Actually it was a pike.  Perfectly serviceable weapon.  I kind of wish I could get to play that elf in Inquisition who has a bow-staff.  I'd like to see how that works in practice.   

[straykat]

I've been playing a sarcastic mage who goes out of their way to deflect and play along with the Templars (I plan this at least until the Qunari attack). It's funny because I got a line I never got before, where Cullen mentions some strange rumors about me. But at the same time, he wants to thank me for my help.

 

I think if you're just a full rebel or really aggressive out of the gates, then the story makes even less sense.

[Sah291]

Some of Cullen's lines suggest he figured it out at some point... I figure it's just part of Cullen's character development into what we saw in DAI. He was probably watching Hawke, waiting to see what he does. He seems relieved when you take Ser Alrik out, even though he can't directly say he knows Hawke did it.

[straykat]

Some of Cullen's lines suggest he figured it out at some point... I figure it's just part of Cullen's character development into what we saw in DAI. He was probably watching Hawke, waiting to see what he does. He seems relieved when you take Ser Alrik out, even though he can't directly say he know Hawke did it.

 

I had a funny idea for the story as I was playing recently. It follows Cullen waking up everyday, making eggs for breakfast, going through his boring routine, and slowly changing his mind about mages.

 

Not exactly Groundhog day, but whatever

[Lord Raijin]

Is it just me or is Mage Hawke's story arc in Dragon Age 2 not very believable ?

Honestly, think about it. We have an unaffiliated apostate mage living in Kirkwall for 10 years or so and they spent most of that 10 years living openly among the Kirkwall society. Worse still, this mage could be a blood mage.

On the other hand, Anders has to hide underground for most of the time he is there and be on the run (even though he is a Grey Warden). We also have Merrill who has to stay in the squalor of the Kirkwall Alienage where most Templars don't come and look for people. The only exceptions to this is if Hawke decides to romance them.

I just find it very hard to believe that a city filled with zealous Templars and an even more zealous Knight Commander would allow an apostate mage (who is not a Grey Warden or a Dalish Elf) to run free for that long without capturing them.

Hawke could run around Hightown, casting spells everywhere and almost nothing would happen to them. Hawke could kill Templars and nothing would happen to them. Hawke could be talking to Knight Captain Cullen and would not get dragged to the Circle. Conversely, Bethany, the other mage Hawke, either does not escape Templar scrutiny for long and is sent to the Gallows or becomes a Grey Warden or dies.

I highly doubt Varric's bribes are that effective and that the Templars would not take his bribe and hunt down mage Hawke anyway. So how does one justify mage Hawke running around scot-free in a city that have harsh Templars and a harsher Knight Commander for more than 10 years without being dragged to the Gallows ?

 

This is the reason why this game is so hated. The game mechanics in this game truly suck at it's best. I mean take a look at this clip. It's somewhat funny if you ask me LOL

[Apo]

To be fair, Bethany never gets taken by the Templars if PC-Hawke is a Mage (since Bethany is dead, granted).  There are plenty of possible "parallel universe" explanations that would compensate for that sort of difference.  Perhaps Mage PC-Hawke was a more careful Apostate, having traveled outside of Lothering a bit.  Perhaps it's the opposite, and non-Mage PC-Hawke accidentally let a few too many clues about his/her sister slip, not really fully comprehending the Templars' investigative skills.  Maybe Carver was bribing someone.  And so on.

 

If Hawke is a mage and you don't take Carver with you in the deep roads than he become a templar, and knowing that he's jealous of his older sibling than he has all the reasons to turn him/her in to his fellow templars because he knows that you're a mage ffs

 

And i don't want to start the DA:O is better than DA2, but there were consequences for being a blood mage in DA:O (cut content) : https://www.youtube....h?v=2YML3Jhw54g

 

So the only answer for Hawke's case : plot armor.

[Catilina]

If Hawke is a mage and you don't take Carver with you in the deep roads than he become a templar, and knowing that he's jealous of his older sibling than he has all the reasons to turn him/her in to his fellow templars because he knows that you're a mage ffs

 

And i don't want to start the DA:O is better than DA2, but there were consequences for being a blood mage in DA:O (cut content) : https://www.youtube....h?v=2YML3Jhw54g

 

So the only answer for Hawke's case : plot armor.

(Carver never betray his brother.)

 

With Wilhelm Hawke i played from the beginning to the end without using robe... true: with blood mage staff...

 

The game mechanism is really "interesting". Real need some imagination, and yes, some consequences, plus dialogue options would be nice, if Hawke being blood mage (as mine, for example). The latter is still missed to me.

 

But never forget: Chantry supports blood magic ... if they needs it

[Apo]

(Carver never betray his brother.)

 

I know he never did, but as a templar he had all the reasons : knowing that the older brother/sister is a mage, growing under his/her shadow, beign constantly told that he can never be as good as him/her.

From the beginning we're told that Carver is resentful and jealous of Hawke.

[Lord Raijin]

If Hawke is a mage and you don't take Carver with you in the deep roads than he become a templar, and knowing that he's jealous of his older sibling than he has all the reasons to turn him/her in to his fellow templars because he knows that you're a mage ffs

 

And i don't want to start the DA:O is better than DA2, but there were consequences for being a blood mage in DA:O (cut content) : https://www.youtube....h?v=2YML3Jhw54g

 

So the only answer for Hawke's case : plot armor.

 

Just to let you know that the video link you submitted was part of a mod (Look in the description). Bioware was planning to add in the game, but didn't. It was a cut scene that was never released, sadly.

 

Base on the evidence it seems like when it comes down to major consequences Bioware and their writers show a great deal of weaknesses on the execution of such consequence that is resulted in the behavior of the player and their desire choices.

[Lord Raijin]

I know he never did, but as a templar he had all the reasons : knowing that the older brother/sister is a mage, growing under his/her shadow, beign constantly told that he can never be as good as him/her.

From the beginning we're told that Carver is resentful and jealous of Hawke.

 

Carver maybe jealous of his older sibling, but he is still loyal to his family.

 

(To Fenris) "If you have a problem with my brother/sister, you have a problem with me."

 

Just because he joined the Templar order doesn't mean that hes going to rat out his brother/sister to his superiors. Sure he had all the reasons to do it, but decided not to.

 

He was willing to take a severe beating to his newly Knight-Commander for keeping his brother/sister dark secret.... a secret.

 

 

It seems like this is quite common for Templars who either have mage siblings or have mage progeny.

 

 

An addition to the letter that he wrote to his older sibling.

 

http://dragonage.wik..._Family_Letters

 

If Carver is alive and joined the templars...

Dear Hawke,

How are you? I hope you and Mother are doing well. Things are good here. I've found my place among the templars. It's nice to have purpose, to be part of something bigger than myself... and you! All right, all right, I'll stop being a pain in the ass.

 

It's not a perfect job, though. I don't really like what we do to mages, but do we have a choice? It keeps everyone safe, and it's better than the alternative. Many mages understand that we're trying to help, even if our methods could use improvement.

 

Unfortunately, there are extreme elements within the Order. Some argue for a permanent solution and have ideas I hope never take root. Makes me glad Bethany never had to live in a place like this.

I'll wrap this up. Duty calls. Send my love to Mother.

 

Your brother,
Carver

[Mike3207]

Hawke kept order (somewhat) in Kirkwall for ten years and/or kept it from blowing itself-too much- up during that time period. Well, until Anders, of course. A few qualifiers there, but you get the point.

 

I'd say the Templars knew, even Meredith, and just decided they liked living in a intact city. Put Hawke in the Circle, and next week Kirkwall is a smoky hole in the ground.

 

Add to that Varric tells you with enough wealth, the Templars won't be able to touch you-or don't want to. He's been in the city long enough to tell that about the templars. It might mean they're corrupt, or they like and respect Hawke enough to look the other way. Either is believable in Kirkwall.

Bearbeitet von Mike3207, 19 April 2016 - 12:33 .

[Apo]

Just to let you know that the video link you submitted was part of a mod (Look in the description). Bioware was planning to add in the game, but didn't. It was a cut scene that was never released, sadly.

 

Base on the evidence it seems like when it comes down to major consequences Bioware and their writers show a great deal of weaknesses on the execution of such consequence that is resulted in the behavior of the player and their desire choices.

 

I know it was cut, just wanted to show that at some point it was considered to have consequences for being blood mage, where in DA2 you just pick the spec and that's it

 

As for the Carver templar, I played only once with a mage Hawke and made him a GW, so what I said was what I expected to happen, it could have added some more tragedy to the Hawke family to have the little brother betraying you, like you (sort of) betray Bethany if you let the templars kill her (or kill her yourself I don't remember) when you side with templars if you play a non-mage Hawke.

 

DA2 is sadly a lot of lost opportunities in term of game design and decisions imo.

[Qis]

Actually Bioware didn't prepare the story for Mage Hawke, it is because now the game have only "Hawke" unlike in Origins where we have multiple backgrounds to play with different characters. So they did try out alternate intro for Mage Hawke but being cut later because it didn't work. Because of the game is rushed they just put in Mage Hawke anyway and give their middle finger to us

 

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

 

TUK: In DA2, no one seemed to care that my Hawke was a blood mage. I was walking around Kirkwall with a staff in my hand going "I'm a blood mage! Look at me!" Everyone just didn't notice.

DG: Part of that was, there was actually a plot in chapter one which got cut, which was if you were a mage, it specifically addressed that point. Not much we can do about that. Part of it is gameplay. One assumes that you're not walking around announcing to the world that you're a blood mage, or a mage for that matter. One assumes there are people who wear robes that aren't mages. You don't see that very much. So there's a little bit of a handwave there, I totally recognize that. The problem with the plot we cut is it wasn't working very well, it was very complicated, it involved going into the Fade and a few other things and we couldn't get it to work. Had we been a little smarter when we started we would have had some smaller reaction in the world, just recognizing who you were without a giant plot that required a lot of content. Going in the future I'd like to have more recognition of that. It is kind of funny, if you think about it too much there's a lot of things where gameplay and the story don't match up--

 

TUK: We really do think about it too much, we do know that, that's why we're here.

DG: Well, we think about it too. When we cut that plot I was like "Oh. All right, so...I guess nobody notices..." So I put a couple comments into Meredith's dialogue, she sort of comments "We knew who you were," and in a few other places. I think we should've put something into Cullen's dialogue. [laughter]

TUK: Poor Cullen. So oblivious.

DG: Jennifer wrote that plot, and afterwards, I forget what it was, someone said "You know, wouldn't Cullen happen to burst onto the scene and you're casting spells, wouldn't he say 'So you're a mage...'" It was too late for us to do anything about it and we decided that Cullen is just very oblivious.

[Beerfish]

When you 1st get there things are in chaos and the powers that be are too concerned with the tower mages, the Qunari and all the other bad mages running around,

 

by the time they have the chance to look at you closely you have become very powerful and have established friends in high and low places.  The Templars smartly decided to look the other way when it came to Hawke until right at the end and when they did go after you it cost them dearly.

[roselavellan]

 

TUK: Poor Cullen. So oblivious.

DG: Jennifer wrote that plot, and afterwards, I forget what it was, someone said "You know, wouldn't Cullen happen to burst onto the scene and you're casting spells, wouldn't he say 'So you're a mage...'" It was too late for us to do anything about it and we decided that Cullen is just very oblivious.

 

Lol, poor Cullen. Actually in my headcanon, Cullen respected Hawke for helping to maintain order in Kirkwall, so while he kept an eye on her, he also allowed her freedom in Kirkwall. I assumed he discussed it with Meredith and they both decided to allow Hawke some freedom in Kirkwall as long as she continues maintaining order. (I also headcanoned that he had another of his confusing mage crushes on Hawke, who happened to look strikingly similar to his first crush, Amell).

 

Of course you still have to ignore his infamous "mages are not people like you and me" line. 

[Qis]

Lol, poor Cullen. Actually in my headcanon, Cullen respected Hawke for helping to maintain order in Kirkwall, so while he kept an eye on her, he also allowed her freedom in Kirkwall. I assumed he discussed it with Meredith and they both decided to allow Hawke some freedom in Kirkwall as long as she continues maintaining order. (I also headcanoned that he had another of his confusing mage crushes on Hawke, who happened to look strikingly similar to his first crush, Amell).

 

Of course you still have to ignore his infamous "mages are not people like you and me" line. 

 

Well i always using Solona Amell as import, so i always assume Meredith and Templars don't mind Hawke because they know she's The Hero of Ferelden cousin, it just 1 year after The Blight, surely Mage Warden is a superstar, but when everything just don't add up, especially the sentiment toward Mages still bitter after a Mage save the whole world, and that negative sentiment lead to a war between Mage and Templar...so what Solona Amell being build, crushed by DA2 story...there is no excuse, it just a rushed and not planned story, and a garbage...they even forgot to change Cullen line for Mage Hawke

 

Save import don't mean a thing, surely the Chantry will loosen up a bit because The Hero of the last Blight was a MAGE, and that Mage who found Andraste Tomb....why the world don't change a bit? Why Templar still treat Mages badly? Why policies don't change a bit? Why Cullen say that dialogue even after knowing his former lover killing The Archdemon and is The Hero of Ferelden The Blight Vanquisher?