121 ответов в этой теме

[Bayonet Hipshot]

This is silly. Are we to assume that flails don't exist in Thedas just because the devs haven't implemented them? How about maces? Daggers that aren't the size of short swords? You could DW axes in DAO - just because the option's not there anymore doesn't mean no one in Thedas is dual-wielding axes post-9:31.

I'm just saying, somebody in Thedas who is not a mage has probably picked up a big stick and whacked somebody with it at some point.

 

That's the thing:- No one, not in previous games or in the Codex or in World of Thedas have been shown to use staves except Mages and Dwarves (for ceremonial purposes).

[vertigomez]

That's the thing:- No one, not in previous games or in the Codex or in World of Thedas have been shown to use staves except Mages and Dwarves (for ceremonial purposes).

They haven't been shown to use scythes, either. Doesn't mean no one's invented or used one in-universe.

[Sah291]

@Bayonet Hipshot,
Is the real issue that they are straying too much from traditional RPG conventions, with class/racial roles (with exclusive weapons and armor types), and that the narrative is getting less tied to that?

Because I will grant you that they do seem to be moving away from some of that. And you're right, it's jarring sometimes if you take it at face value, which is why I don't. There's no reason why mage Hawke would conform to Circle robes, and would technically not even be considered a real mage, having never been an apprentice of or initiated into a Circle. So Hawke is technically a hedge mage. No matter if he/she was trained by an ex Circle mage...they never went through a proper Harrowing as far as we know. Which explains why so many things have a tendancy to go horribly wrong around him/her. Just kidding...but you do have to wonder.

[Xilizhra]

Act 1:- Why would an enchanter from another Circle stay in a disgusting hovel that is home to a known drunk and gambler with no document of any kind specifying which Circle they came from. I don't buy it.

 

Act 2:- An enchanter from another Circle that conveniently stays in the place that was once owned by the Amells with no document of any kind specifying which Circle they came from. Furthermore, this "enchanter from another Circle" ends up going to the Viscount's office quite frequently to mediate matters between Kirkwall and the Qunari. Yeah, I don't buy it.

Act 1: Hawke is still wholly undercover. You'll note that Bethany was free during Act 1 as well.

 

Act 2: Varric forges any necessary documents, and I don't see why it's less believable that the viscount would be consulting a Circle mage than an apostate.

[TurianSpectre]

Hawke did learn some martial arts from his/her father in order to hide their identity as a mage. In Kirkwall where everyone's trying to hide their apostate status, Hawke may have found a way to blend in. Also, Aveline may have tried to hide evidence of Hawke as a mage.

 

Another explanation is that this is Varric's story to Cassandra about Hawke. He may have left out a few details such as the ones you've mentioned. 

Playing as a mage myself atm and the thought has crossed my mind a couple of times when i was speaking to a templar and i have to admit this does seem quite accurate to be honest lol

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Playing as a mage myself atm and the thought has crossed my mind a couple of times when i was speaking to a templar and i have to admit this does seem quite accurate to be honest lol

 

This. You meet with so many Templars in the game as Mage Hawke with a yuge stick across your back that is a mage staff and it is just unbelievable and not immersive to assume that these Templars, who are some of the strictest and most paranoid Templars out there, would not notice such a thing.

[TurianSpectre]

Yeah i did notice that but didn't bother me

[Catilina]

This. You meet with so many Templars in the game as Mage Hawke with a yuge stick across your back that is a mage staff and it is just unbelievable and not immersive to assume that these Templars, who are some of the strictest and most paranoid Templars out there, would not notice such a thing.

Yes. And the military officers also go to the zoo with their family with armoured troop carrier vehicle, and machine guns on their backs.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Yes. And the military officers also go to the zoo with their family with armoured troop carrier vehicle, and machine guns on their backs.

 

Did Severus Snape feed you Babbling Beverage ? What has military officers got to do with a Ferelden refugee ? Since when Hawke is a military officer ? Heck, since when a military officer in Thedas can be a mage unless if they are from Tevinter ?

[Catilina]

 

What has military officers got to do with a Ferelden refugee ?

That is why I did not say that Hawke is carried on his/her shoulders an armored troop transport vehicles ...

[Xilizhra]

Did Severus Snape feed you Babbling Beverage ? What has military officers got to do with a Ferelden refugee ? Since when Hawke is a military officer ? Heck, since when a military officer in Thedas can be a mage unless if they are from Tevinter ?

The point is that Hawke probably isn't actually carrying the staff everywhere, and it's only stuck to her back for gameplay convenience.

[Catilina]

The point is that Hawke probably isn't actually carrying the staff everywhere, and it's only stuck to her back for gameplay convenience.

Nice gesture to explain, but unnecessary effort. Without imagination is really incredible.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The point is that Hawke probably isn't actually carrying the staff everywhere, and it's only stuck to her back for gameplay convenience.

 

Gameplay convenience is Bioware's fault, not mine since in DAO, you do not need to have a staff. Also, you can see that Hawke always carries a staff and sometimes, seeing is believing.

[Catilina]

Gameplay convenience is Bioware's fault, not mine since in DAO, you do not need to have a staff. Also, you can see that Hawke always carries a staff and sometimes, seeing is believing.

And how many more incredible things in a game, and yet it is we can imagine.

But if you want to continue to play the dumb, it is your choice, I promise, I will belive, that you are really dumb...

 

Nevertheless here there more proof, after a tavern brawl. The fight was with weapons and magic ofc, but the final image sequence is presented as if it had been fistfight. 

 

Spoiler

 

Stupid solution that does not fistfight as in the Witcher, but this is again just a game mechanic mistake... not storytelling mess.

[TurianSpectre]

I have to admit i do like the scenes where you reveal to certain individuals that your a mage and they ****** **** themselves... its hilarious

[TurianSpectre]

Good luck guessing what the *s are lol

[BSpud]

Sexing defecation?

[thesuperdarkone2]

I think people are forgetting that DA2 is a story told by Varric, so it's likely a lot of the mundane stuff a mage hawke did to hide wasn't told.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I think people are forgetting that DA2 is a story told by Varric, so it's likely a lot of the mundane stuff a mage hawke did to hide wasn't told.

 

By that logic, then DAO is a story told by dead Duncan since he narrates the beginning and the end but that doesn't stop it from a decent and sensible story. Point is, there is nothing in the Dragon Age 2 game itself that support the idea that the Champion of Kirkwall can be a mage without possible ramifications like Templar response since the game very clearly shows what happens to the other mage Hawke, Bethany Hawke if you let her stay in Kirkwall.
 

[Lulupab]

By that logic, then DAO is a story told by dead Duncan since he narrates the beginning and the end but that doesn't stop it from a decent and sensible story. Point is, there is nothing in the Dragon Age 2 game itself that support the idea that the Champion of Kirkwall can be a mage without possible ramifications like Templar response since the game very clearly shows what happens to the other mage Hawke, Bethany Hawke if you let her stay in Kirkwall.
 

 

Duncan does not tell the story of warden though. That's different, he only talks about the state of the world. Varric clearly tells the story of Hawke.

 

The fact remains there is a clear gameplay and story integration here. David Gaider said there writing team and gameplay team are completely different people. You know what this means right? The writing team goes first, they can't possibly know the gameplay team made staves necessary for players. And this is only one example. For your information Templars cannot summon magic out of thin air. So for instance the holy smite from DAO and DA2 doesn't actually exist in the lore. It only exists to make the Templar spec more interesting to play. 

 

Hawke hides very well until the end of act 2. Then he uses his magic to save Kirkwall. ENTIRE population of Kirkwall see that a single mage stood alone against Qunari and won, saved the city and people. They would lynch Meredith if she wanted to arrest Hawke for being a mage. In act 3 many people know that Hawke is a mage but he is also Champion of Kirkwall. Its not a nobility title, but an honorary one so a mage can become one. If you confront Meredith with aggressive responses she actually tells Hawke that the only reason he is not in chains is because he used his magic to save Kirkwall.

 

BTW this is not the first time a mage becomes a champion. If you leave Anders to defend Vigils Keep in DAA he slays hundreds of Darkspawn all by himself, their corpses lying like a mountain around him without a single physical wound on them, magic killed them. Provided he is alive afterwards he is branded champion of vigils keep, just like Hawke. Because people saw he used his magic to turn the tide, just like Hawke.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Duncan does not tell the story of warden though. That's different, he only talks about the state of the world. Varric clearly tells the story of Hawke.

 

The fact remains there is a clear gameplay and story integration here. David Gaider said there writing team and gameplay team are completely different people. You know what this means right? The writing team goes first, they can't possibly know the gameplay team made staves necessary for players. And this is only one example. For your information Templars cannot summon magic out of thin air. So for instance the holy smite from DAO and DA2 doesn't actually exist in the lore. It only exists to make the Templar spec more interesting to play. 

 

Hawke hides very well until the end of act 2. Then he uses his magic to save Kirkwall. ENTIRE population of Kirkwall see that a single mage stood alone against Qunari and won, saved the city and people. They would lynch Meredith if she wanted to arrest Hawke for being a mage. In act 3 many people know that Hawke is a mage but he is also Champion of Kirkwall. Its not a nobility title, but an honorary one so a mage can become one. If you confront Meredith with aggressive responses she actually tells Hawke that the only reason he is not in chains is because he used his magic to save Kirkwall.

 

BTW this is not the first time a mage becomes a champion. If you leave Anders to defend Vigils Keep in DAA he slays hundreds of Darkspawn all by himself, their corpses lying like a mountain around him without a single physical wound on them, magic killed them. Provided he is alive afterwards he is branded champion of vigils keep, just like Hawke. Because people saw he used his magic to turn the tide, just like Hawke.

 

1) A good and cohesive game would have an immersive "gameplay and story integration".

 

2) False, the different teams within Bioware work together so the writing team would have been fully aware what the gameplay team is up to.

 

3) Templar's abilities are gained from imbuing a highly addictive and dangerous magical substance. So in a sense, Templar's abilities are "magical". Holy Smite is not very different from Spell Purge and we are talking about a class here, the mage, instead of individual abilities.

 

4) Hawke doesn't hide that well in the game actually. Varric states that the name Hawke is no many lips these days when he first meets him or her. Later on, Hawke goes on to interact with Templars, Mage Apostates, Dalish Elves, Kirkwall Guard, The Qunari and is seen moving around in very public places like Viscount's Keep, The Gallows, Hightown before Act 2 even begins. This is exacerbated by the reality that Bethany Hawke, the other Mage Hawke would be caught by Templars and dragged to The Gallows if you did not bring her with you to the Deep Roads Expedition. Sure, Mage Hawke could have and would have killed the Templars that tried to come for him or her but that would just paint a really big target on his or her back since I doubt Templars in Kirkwall take the notion of Apostate Mages killing members of their Order and resisting attempts to be brought to the Circle of Magi lightly. This shows clear plot armor for Mage Hawke.

 

5) My problem with Mage Hawke lies with the fact that they are not accosted by Templars before the Qunari's war on Kirkwall, not after it. After the Qunari's battle, Hawke can pretty much do whatever he or she wants and be whatever he or she likes, though Blood Magic might be stretching things a bit because he or she saved the city.

 

6) Anders did not become a Champion of Amaranthine, because that would be the equivalent title of Champion of Kirkwall. In fact, Anders in Awakening was just doing a Grey Warden's job should be conscripted into the Grey Warden Order. Which means Anders already has immunity because he is a Grey Warden and Grey Warden can be Mages. Even then, he was accosted by the Templars and in Dragon Age 2, he has to be secretive with his job as a healer in Kirkwall despite the fact he is a Grey Warden Mage. If a Grey Warden Mage can face so much problems in Kirkwall, then how does an Apostate Mage nobody get away with doing things for the majority of the game is beyond me.

[Lulupab]

1) A good and cohesive game would have an immersive "gameplay and story integration".

 

2) False, the different teams within Bioware work together so the writing team would have been fully aware what the gameplay team is up to.

 

3) Templar's abilities are gained from imbuing a highly addictive and dangerous magical substance. So in a sense, Templar's abilities are "magical". Holy Smite is not very different from Spell Purge and we are talking about a class here, the mage, instead of individual abilities.

 

4) Hawke doesn't hide that well in the game actually. Varric states that the name Hawke is no many lips these days when he first meets him or her. Later on, Hawke goes on to interact with Templars, Mage Apostates, Dalish Elves, Kirkwall Guard, The Qunari and is seen moving around in very public places like Viscount's Keep, The Gallows, Hightown before Act 2 even begins. This is exacerbated by the reality that Bethany Hawke, the other Mage Hawke would be caught by Templars and dragged to The Gallows if you did not bring her with you to the Deep Roads Expedition. Sure, Mage Hawke could have and would have killed the Templars that tried to come for him or her but that would just paint a really big target on his or her back since I doubt Templars in Kirkwall take the notion of Apostate Mages killing members of their Order and resisting attempts to be brought to the Circle of Magi lightly. This shows clear plot armor for Mage Hawke.

 

5) My problem with Mage Hawke lies with the fact that they are not accosted by Templars before the Qunari's war on Kirkwall, not after it. After the Qunari's battle, Hawke can pretty much do whatever he or she wants and be whatever he or she likes, though Blood Magic might be stretching things a bit because he or she saved the city.

 

6) Anders did not become a Champion of Amaranthine, because that would be the equivalent title of Champion of Kirkwall. In fact, Anders in Awakening was just doing a Grey Warden's job should be conscripted into the Grey Warden Order. Which means Anders already has immunity because he is a Grey Warden and Grey Warden can be Mages. Even then, he was accosted by the Templars and in Dragon Age 2, he has to be secretive with his job as a healer in Kirkwall despite the fact he is a Grey Warden Mage. If a Grey Warden Mage can face so much problems in Kirkwall, then how does an Apostate Mage nobody get away with doing things for the majority of the game is beyond me.

 

Dragon age 2 was a rushed game, actually blood magic was planned to not be included in the game so the writing has not included ANY reaction to Hawke being Blood mage in the game, in opposed to DAO where there are a few reactions from several NPCs. However the gameplay team decided to include blood magic spec in the game anyway. Again David Gaider said that the teams were not really on the same page because DA2 was a rushed game.

 

Kirkwall is a city though, and not a particularly big one. Hawke's title holds no value in other places of Freemarches, so I'd say its pretty equal with champion of Vigils keep. 

 

When Meredith saves you from a Saarebas attack, she tells you she will overlook Hawke's use of magic until things calm down, implying she will do something later. After which Hawke becomes the most important person in the city so she can't do anything anymore. I don't see this any different than Vivienne's situation. Fame and wealth can save a mage from being locked in the circle, specially when they use both in public view to save the very public itself.

 

In act 1 Carver and Aveline help you hide, then Varric also helps you. Then you go to deep roads for quite a bit of time and when you come back you become very wealthy. The most dangerous time for Hawke was act 1 and he successfully hides during it thanks to his friends.