Aller au contenu

Photo

Mass Effect 3 Dialog Wheel


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
105 réponses à ce sujet

#51
Khrystyn

Khrystyn
  • Members
  • 477 messages

I said minimally, I never said it would be noticeable. In any case, how would you know, you haven't bought a new mouse in quite a while, correct?

 

Uniform, you're over thinking this. I know how it performs so well because I have no noticeable lag from index finger to shooting. It's all in the wrist and a really good mouse. It doesn't have to be new to be really good. :wub:



#52
abaris

abaris
  • Members
  • 1 860 messages

Uniform, you're over thinking this. I know how it performs so well because I have no noticeable lag from index finger to shooting. It's all in the wrist and a really good mouse. It doesn't have to be new to be really good. :wub:

 

Mouse pad is even more important. No more pain since I have one with a wrist cushion.



#53
UniformGreyColor

UniformGreyColor
  • Members
  • 1 455 messages

Uniform, you're over thinking this. I know how it performs so well because I have no noticeable lag from index finger to shooting. It's all in the wrist and a really good mouse. It doesn't have to be new to be really good. :wub:

 

Well I totally agree with using with what works for you. I have like Three mice and all of them are different brands, but I always keep going back to the G600 by Logitech.



#54
Khrystyn

Khrystyn
  • Members
  • 477 messages

Mouse pad is even more important. No more pain since I have one with a wrist cushion.

 

I have a basic $8 Steelseries mouse pad. It's been just fine. I put my money towards the hardware where I don't want poor performance, and that doesn't mean that I buy the most expensive, or the latest and greatest.  And my mouse doesn't have 5,000 whatevers per microsecond. I'm just playing ME; not trying to play Jeopardy against IBM's Watson super computer.  :o  It seems to me that mouse input lag might be caused by poor drivers and radio wave interference, but what do I know about this? The speed of light (and radio waves) is only impeded in a massive gravity well (like my game room!) - so it only affects my mouse when I'm cruising through the center of our galaxy. It's really dark in that neighborhood, and in my game room too!



#55
Linkenski

Linkenski
  • Members
  • 3 451 messages

I fear that we see less and less of that. Voice acting is expensive and I'm afraid, the cinematic approach wiith next to no choices is the way they're going.

 

An absolute low in that department was the pretty recent release of Fallout 4, where even outright insulting your dialogue partner leads to the exact same lines as being sweet to them.

While Bethesda obviously couldn't handle this transition too well (poor design IMO) Bioware actually had it right to begin with with ME1 and ME2 and them skimping on it for reasons that are budgetary makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

Well I totally agree with using with what works for you. I have like Three mice and all of them are different brands, but I always keep going back to the G600 by Logitech.

I read this, initially thinking you were making some kind of analogy xD



#56
abaris

abaris
  • Members
  • 1 860 messages

 

While Bethesda obviously couldn't handle this transition too well (poor design IMO) Bioware actually had it right to begin with with ME1 and ME2 and them skimping on it for reasons that are budgetary makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

I read this, initially thinking you were making some kind of analogy xD

 

 

Look at how ME3 is designed, compare it to ME1 or 2 and I doubt you will claim it's the same experience.



#57
Hiemoth

Hiemoth
  • Members
  • 739 messages

Dialogue wheel is an abomination and must be removed.
2929230-9331320112-28328.jpg

 

It always cracks me up when I see this picture posted up because the argument of the image is literally form over substance. That they would rather watch pretty things instead of having meaningful mechanics. The fact that it is probably posted unironically just makes me laugh so much more.


  • Eckswhyzed et tesla21 aiment ceci

#58
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 262 messages

How about no dialogue wheel? It's objectively worse than the traditional system that Bioware has used in the past.

It's not like ME3 had a dialogue wheel anyway



#59
Hiemoth

Hiemoth
  • Members
  • 739 messages

I would be surprised if the neutral option didn't return, although I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't tinker with the dialogue mechanics for ME:A.

 

However, I think it is important to point out that the ME team probably had a lot of reasons to remove the neutral option from ME3 with the narrative reasons probably being one of the biggest ones. Considering what was the focus of the game, I can easily see that writing the neutral option just felt off in almost all situations.

 

"Sir/Ma'am, they are wiping out every living thing on the planet. What do we?"

"Well, we follow the book. What does the book say?"



#60
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 262 messages

I would be surprised if the neutral option didn't return, although I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't tinker with the dialogue mechanics for ME:A.

 

However, I think it is important to point out that the ME team probably had a lot of reasons to remove the neutral option from ME3 with the narrative reasons probably being one of the biggest ones. Considering what was the focus of the game, I can easily see that writing the neutral option just felt off in almost all situations.

 

"Sir/Ma'am, they are wiping out every living thing on the planet. What do we?"

"Well, we follow the book. What does the book say?"

It's not even lacking a "neutral option" that was a problem.  It was having any option that wasn't

 

"I'm sad"

or

"I'm p*ssed off"


  • abaris aime ceci

#61
Hiemoth

Hiemoth
  • Members
  • 739 messages

It's not even lacking a "neutral option" that was a problem.  It was having any option that wasn't

 

"I'm sad"

or

"I'm p*ssed off"

 

So what you are missing is the neutral option which doesn't express any emotion?

 

ME3 was about an apocalyptic event none of the races had ever experienced and a soldier caught in the middle of it. It build a lot of the emotional reaction to the game by allowing the character actually react to those cataclysmic events. I can easily see from their perspective how a non-chalant, shoulder-shrugging character might have been a difficult approach there. Especially since of the criticism from ME2 that Shepard wasn't able to react enough to the situation.



#62
abaris

abaris
  • Members
  • 1 860 messages

It's not even lacking a "neutral option" that was a problem.  It was having any option that wasn't

 

"I'm sad"

or

"I'm p*ssed off"

 

So much this. It simply ran on autopilot for most of the time.



#63
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 262 messages

So what you are missing is the neutral option which doesn't express any emotion?

 

ME3 was about an apocalyptic event none of the races had ever experienced and a soldier caught in the middle of it. It build a lot of the emotional reaction to the game by allowing the character actually react to those cataclysmic events. I can easily see from their perspective how a non-chalant, shoulder-shrugging character might have been a difficult approach there. Especially since of the criticism from ME2 that Shepard wasn't able to react enough to the situation.

In a sense.  a "stoic" expression would not have been out of place.  

 

Or even an option to be upset about anything besides what Bioware thinks we should be upset about.  On Thessia, I didn't think it out of place that Shepard be angry about what happened.  But I wanted my Shep to be p*ssed at losing the beacon, not at Thessia's fall.

 

DAI at some points allows the Inquisitor to express a range of emotions:  sadness, stoicism, anger, confusion, approval, etc.  in ME3, mosdt of a conversation can go by with only one or two binary inputs from the player.


  • UpUpAway aime ceci

#64
Hiemoth

Hiemoth
  • Members
  • 739 messages

In a sense.  a "stoic" expression would not have been out of place.  

 

Or even an option to be upset about anything besides what Bioware thinks we should be upset about.  On Thessia, I didn't think it out of place that Shepard be angry about what happened.  But I wanted my Shep to be p*ssed at losing the beacon, not at Thessia's fall.

 

DAI at some points allows the Inquisitor to express a range of emotions:  sadness, stoicism, anger, confusion, approval, etc.  in ME3, mosdt of a conversation can go by with only one or two binary inputs from the player.

 

I agree that stoic wouldn't out of place, but it would be really difficult to convey in those scenes. Especially since the ME team wants to Shepard to react in those situations in a way that allows others to react as well. Besides, the Renegade overlaps with stoic at times.

 

As for the DAI comparison, it is because they are two different games with different goals. You are correct that DAI allows those emotional reactions chosen from the wheel, but as a consequence they are very momentary and even there the PC cannot choose to be sad about a specific element, but rather jst sad.. They are literally reactions to what is happening at that moment. By having Shepard be sad about the loss of Thessia, ME3 in turn forces the player to express that specific sorrow in some way, tells a story of how Shepard reacts to that emotional stimulant.

 

Neither of these approaches is wrong in anyway, it is just a different choice on how to approach the narrative and what is the PC conveying in those scenes.



#65
abaris

abaris
  • Members
  • 1 860 messages

I agree that stoic wouldn't out of place, but it would be really difficult to convey in those scenes. Especially since the ME team wants to Shepard to react in those situations in a way that allows others to react as well. Besides, the Renegade overlaps with stoic at times.

 

That's why fully voiced characters no longer allow for the choices previous games offered.

 

And it's gotten worse, since with ME3, as I already said, many parts of the game were just to lean back and watch a premade cinematic. Without any chance of an interrupt.



#66
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 262 messages

 

As for the DAI comparison, it is because they are two different games with different goals. You are correct that DAI allows those emotional reactions chosen from the wheel, but as a consequence they are very momentary and even there the PC cannot choose to be sad about a specific element, but rather jst sad.. They are literally reactions to what is happening at that moment. By having Shepard be sad about the loss of Thessia, ME3 in turn forces the player to express that specific sorrow in some way, tells a story of how Shepard reacts to that emotional stimulant.

 

Neither of these approaches is wrong in anyway, it is just a different choice on how to approach the narrative and what is the PC conveying in those scenes.

And when Bioware does that, Shepard stops being our character and becomes their character.  We're not shaping the story, we're just along for the ride.  Might as well have Mac Walters read us the story.


  • Bowlcuts aime ceci

#67
Midnight Bliss

Midnight Bliss
  • Members
  • 857 messages

My main issue with ME3 dialogue system was not just removal of middle option but also the fact that we barely had any control over our Shepard. Most of the dialogue he/she would speak was autoset and it was really annoying and it removed a lot of roleplaying aspect.

I always hear this but I had perfect control over Shep in ME3 and she felt like the same woman I grew to love so much in the past two installments.

 

The problem I had was the terrible paraphrasing, you should never have to replay a scene because the dialogue box is flat out wrong and misrepresents the dialogue it represents.



#68
Bowlcuts

Bowlcuts
  • Members
  • 709 messages

I always hear this but I had perfect control over Shep in ME3 and she felt like the same woman I grew to love so much in the past two installments.

 

The problem I had was the terrible paraphrasing, you should never have to replay a scene because the dialogue box is flat out wrong and misrepresents the dialogue it represents.

So wallowing over Thessia and Earth with the auto-emotion made you still feel like you had perfect control?



#69
Midnight Bliss

Midnight Bliss
  • Members
  • 857 messages

So wallowing over Thessia and Earth with the auto-emotion made you still feel like you had perfect control?

I understood Shepard was supposed to be as much her own person as a person whose actions I influenced through my decisions as the player so no, that didn't bother me at all.

 

Shep never "wallows" over Thessia and Earth anyway, she feels genuine sadness over tons of billions of people dying and the loss of her figurative home, which seems pretty understandable to me.


  • CronoDragoon aime ceci

#70
Bowlcuts

Bowlcuts
  • Members
  • 709 messages

I understood Shepard was supposed to be as much her own person as a person whose actions I influenced through my decisions as the player so no, that didn't bother me at all.

 

Shep never "wallows" over Thessia and Earth anyway, she feels genuine sadness over tons of billions of people dying and the loss of her figurative home, which seems pretty understandable to me.

Lucky you then. Because my Shepard and many other people's definitely didn't care about Thessia and got annoyed by the "muh Earth" auto-emotion.


  • Iakus, Hammerstorm et Draining Dragon aiment ceci

#71
Draining Dragon

Draining Dragon
  • Members
  • 5 465 messages

Lucky you then. Because my Shepard and many other people's definitely didn't care about Thessia and got annoyed by the "muh Earth" auto-emotion.


That scene after Thessia when the game forces you to be a jerk to Joker over his legitimately funny joke... ugh.
  • Hammerstorm et Bowlcuts aiment ceci

#72
Midnight Bliss

Midnight Bliss
  • Members
  • 857 messages

That scene after Thessia when the game forces you to be a jerk to Joker over his legitimately funny joke... ugh.

That scene should have been paragon = get angry, renegade = understanding. IMO


  • Draining Dragon aime ceci

#73
Hiemoth

Hiemoth
  • Members
  • 739 messages

And when Bioware does that, Shepard stops being our character and becomes their character.  We're not shaping the story, we're just along for the ride.  Might as well have Mac Walters read us the story.

 

And for me Shepard continues to be as much as my character as Hawke did and much more so than Warden or Inquisitor ever did. Additionally, all of those characters felt equally Bioware's characters as they crafted the situations and the limited responses to them. It is such an individual experience which crafts that connection to the character that it is almost useless discussing in that manner as there's no agreement there.



#74
Andrew Lucas

Andrew Lucas
  • Members
  • 1 571 messages

I'd like to still have that defyning emotional aspect over the PC instead of having a blank one AKA Quizzy.


  • Midnight Bliss aime ceci

#75
teh DRUMPf!!

teh DRUMPf!!
  • Members
  • 9 142 messages

 All I know is that for the next protagonist to be successful, BioWare needs to provide dialogue options to:

(1) Negotiate

(2) Tell it like it is.


  • malloc aime ceci