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Hedge Mage Protagonist?


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#76
TheKomandorShepard

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Oh, I see.  Despite similar practices, those two cultures are just about as far removed as they could possibly be.  Even if they weren't, the antagonists in Jaws of Hakkon, as well as their predecessors, seemed to be a fanatical fringe element instead of representing standard practices for the Avvar in general.  If you're going to condemn the Rivaini practices because of the actions of a fanatical group of Avvar that they have no connection to, then what's to stop you from condemning the Circle in southern Thedas for what the Tevinter venatori did?

It has plenty to do with it, Avvar just showed that their system is extremely flawed and and comes expanse of people safety.You can't judge circle basing on venatori because existence of venatori are something that circle as system stands against and they weren't even circles product, but very existance of Venatorii or destructive mages in circle proves point that there always will be mages that will cause havock, circles in contrast to said cultures contain mages protecting people from mages and preventing them from harming population. 



#77
Ghost Gal

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We already had a hedge mage protagonist. It was called "Mage Hawke."


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#78
Kimarous

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We already had a hedge mage protagonist. It was called "Mage Hawke."

 

Wouldn't a Mage Qunari Inquisitor also count? Just saying, they don't seem like the Circle type.


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#79
Kakistos_

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I'm fairly sure if abominations were as much of a problem as you think they are, Rivain wouldn't even have a culture that revered the seers in the first place. The lack of fear and the prevalence of respect for the seers of Rivain imply that the dangers that the Chantry/Cirlce claim is constant without "proper" Circle teachings are held in check by their own methods.

 

Precisely. It is propaganda in their crusade to suppress Magic. Rivain, the Avvar, the Chasind and the Elves have all existed with free Mages even before the rise of the Chantry and Circle and into modern Thedas. Not one of those societies has devolved into harems of Blood Magic and Abominations like the Chantry preaches they will. And the Chantry has only gotten more extreme with time. In it's infancy it allied with and their forces were even lead by Mages as revealed by Inquisitor Ameridan, a Dalish Mage.


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#80
TheKomandorShepard

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Precisely. It is propaganda in their crusade to suppress Magic. Rivain, the Avvar, the Chasind and the Elves have all existed with free Mages even before the rise of the Chantry and Circle and into modern Thedas. Not one of those societies has devolved into harems of Blood Magic and Abominations like the Chantry preaches they will. And the Chantry has only gotten more extreme with time. In it's infancy it allied with and their forces were even lead by Mages as revealed by Inquisitor Ameridan, a Dalish Mage.

Right , except as i said about 15 times already and something you keep ignoring because it is inconvenient fact that would destroy your false assertions,  5 minutes into exploring Avvar society we discover they caused world-threat, twice. ;) 



#81
ArcaneEsper

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Right , except as i said about 15 times already and something you keep ignoring because it is inconvenient fact that would destroy your false assertions,  5 minutes into exploring Avvar society we discover they caused world-threat, twice. ;)


I don't mean to butt-in but didn't the Avvar intend to cause those threats? If so, that doesn't mean that they can't control their magic.

#82
Donquijote and 59 others

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Hey isn't mage Lavellan an hedge mage?



#83
TheKomandorShepard

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I don't mean to butt-in but didn't the Avvar intend to cause those threats? If so, that doesn't mean that they can't control their magic.

It doesn't mean wheter they intended it or not, what matters that their lack of security measures concerning circles lead to causing world threat, what proves their attitude toward mages is self-destructive and endangers population.



#84
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Right , except as i said about 15 times already and something you keep ignoring because it is inconvenient fact that would destroy your false assertions,  5 minutes into exploring Avvar society we discover they caused world-threat, twice. 

Yes police!False assertions caused world threat :lol:



#85
TheKomandorShepard

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Yes police!False assertions caused world threat :lol:

I don't know what you are talking about but pretty much sums up how you read other people posts , needles to say not very well.



#86
Donquijote and 59 others

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I don't know what you are talking about but pretty much sums up how you read other people posts , needles to say not very well.

These are simply the words that you use the most in your posts
false and world threat Lol


#87
SwobyJ

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Cultures like the Avaar and Seers don't really see 'abominations' as abominations, but instead part of the workings of the world.

 

So in that, on many points of view, they would be facilitators of disaster.

 

But its likely that, say for the Seers' approach, the way they did it, the way the communicate with 'demons', 'spirits', resulted in situations closer to Wynne and Cole (so to speak), than Anders and the many rampaging entities in the games so far.

 

You can devote increasing resources on incessantly hosing down the wildfire or you can become great at digging ditches in response and let it burn out and have growth happen again. Either way, you're still gonna use a measure of fire for your benefit.

 

Rivain's culture won't let go of this because they've seen and heard of too many people gaining a spiritual strength to help their communities. Mages seeming empowered, not overcome. And the spirits communicated with are probably communicated with by stronger willed and wiser mages than normally. So when abomination occurs: 1)Its rare enough like with dealing with all of the elements, 2)There are other, safer and even possessed-by-helpful-spirits seers there to respond and protect people.

 

So to Rivain, the Circle trying to stop abominations (a term Rivain probably doesn't even respect) is like trying to stop all fires from occuring, or all flooding, or all earthquakes, or all violence of persons against other persons. AKA the Circle is the unnatural thing, if anything.

 

And with Rivain's relative isolation (they have a Circle but its not a big part of society, and they have Qunari but seem strangely resistant to embrace of it, they have national connection to the Chantry but won't worship the Maker; aka they keep to their own somehow), it works for them. 

 

I think the theme of Rivain is that they go do what they want, face consequences and deal with them, and carry on doing what they want. That this is an actual legitimate course of action. You wanna pirate, go pirate. You wanna trade, go trade. You wanna magic, go magic. You wanna worship, go worship. You wanna build, go build. You wanna tear down, go tear down. They've built a culture from this and the result of it is people who seem to just do what they want as long as it doesn't interfere with the whole. Key word for them, so far as we know, is community. They're probably the closest as a 'family' that any nation on Thedas is. So yeah, if an abomination occurs, I suppose they'd respond to the threat and keep it from spreading, mourn the dead, and carry on - especially if the response to the threat was another mage/seer with their own spiritual power that they also used to help crops, keep the village warm, entertain the children, heal sickness. Another idea of Rivain is that if you mess with it, you mess with all of it + all of its connections. It has more extended connections than most other nations, even if it doesn't build on them and doesn't have as much strength to enforce those connections. It sounds like a place that all sides have been bogged down in conflict enough with that all sides overall decide more often that its isn't worth the bother. This is down to the Templar/Qunari influence on Rivain as well - the 'hedge magic' of Rivain is so prominent that it'd take a massive and very extended occupation and forced indoctrination of everyone to reduce it. And even then, its strategically placed to not last too long in a strong way to any 'invader'.

 

Rivain is one of my personal favs on where to go in the series. I'd love it for DA5, or at least DA6 - assuming DA4 is all or largely Tevinter. The characters we know from it are headstrong and may have a reputation as scoundrels, but often respectable ones that show that one can live as more than just a force of order or chaos. They'll fight, but not always. They'll establish law, but not always. All in all, they get along, and know that getting along doesn't necessarily mean abstaining from any particular action or behavior. They're very 'alive' and I'd hope that any portrayal of magic in Rivain, similarly, has Circle magic (overall) seem rote, Tevinter magic seem simple, Qunari magic seem dumb, and Elven magic seem outdated. I don't expect them to be the most powerful of magic practitioners (thus keeping them on a more equal power level in the Thedas setting), but I expect them to do amazing and cool new things as plot addresses them. In that sense, I'd expect a Rivain/Rivaini-centered DA to have the highest chance of having a protagonist that has most hedge mage qualities. Rivain Don't Give a Frak.


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#88
TheKomandorShepard

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These are simply the words that you use the most in your posts
false and world threat Lol

 

Im entitled to use whatever words i want, besides from that i used them only few times lately.



#89
Blood Mage Reaver

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Read the first post and stop derrailing the thread!

 

The topic of question is wheter the next protagonist should have inherent magic power from birth (regardless of player class) which would make him "The Choosen One" to confront Solas or will we wind up having Inquisitor 2.0 with another MC who gained unholy power through sheer luck.

 

Whether magic gets used for creating great wonders or great destruction depends entirely on the user and trying to label all mage as either mistreated innocents or living menaces is completely besides the point.



#90
Medhia_Nox

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The chances of getting a hedge mage are poor - especially if we're going to Tevinter - so the discussion is rather moot. 

 

Now, the Free Marches would be another story altogether as I see plenty of opportunity for hedge craft there. 

 

But someone already mentioned the Qunari mage option of DA:I.  That's a hedge mage (who breaks plenty of DA lore rules - but who cares) - so we already had one.  So technically are the Dalish mages.  

 

I don't think Tevinter would abide hedge magic.  



#91
SwobyJ

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Gotta love the clashing biases in DA lore threads.



#92
Cyrus Amell

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Read the first post and stop derrailing the thread!

 

The topic of question is wheter the next protagonist should have inherent magic power from birth (regardless of player class) which would make him "The Choosen One" to confront Solas or will we wind up having Inquisitor 2.0 with another MC who gained unholy power through sheer luck.

 

 

I have argued myself that the next protagonist will have magical powers at his or her disposal, no matter the class or race, but not through traditional means. With the revelations shown in the course of Inquisition that dwarves can manifest mage-like powers through a connection with Lyrium (look at Valta) it only makes sense that the next protagonist will likely have a similar connection to Lyrium. 

 

We are going to Tevinter, and who from Tevinter has this sort of connection? Fenris of course. Even as a warrior he had strange and powerful abilities on par with mages. And he hints there may be others like him out there.

 

Fenris had a specialization called the "Tevinter Fugitive" which holds that "[t]attooed with lyrium and fueled by vengeance, Fenris is an unnerving foe and an invaluable ally on the battlefield." He had abilities such as Spirit Pulse and Lyrium Ghost which would certainly qualify as supernatural.  

 

This opens up possibilities, including a dwarven mage class, that were not present earlier. Expect the ability to augment your powers with different Lyrium types. Even, wait for it, "safe & controllable quantities" of Red Lyrium. You know, for those Sith Lord types among you.

 

And yes, I know there are some here who want their own Badass Fenris Moment:


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#93
Donquijote and 59 others

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Im entitled to use whatever words i want

Hey now we are starting to be touchy eh? Those are your favourite words !



#94
Medhia_Nox

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Read the first post and stop derrailing the thread!

 

The topic of question is wheter the next protagonist should have inherent magic power from birth (regardless of player class) which would make him "The Choosen One" to confront Solas or will we wind up having Inquisitor 2.0 with another MC who gained unholy power through sheer luck.

 

Whether magic gets used for creating great wonders or great destruction depends entirely on the user and trying to label all mage as either mistreated innocents or living menaces is completely besides the point.

 

I'd like them to try to tell a story without using magic as a crutch.  

 

I have an idea... maybe make the main character interesting by giving the player opportunities to do interesting things and build an interesting character.

 

Of course... some people's idea of interesting might be glowy green hands... so, I can't speak to that.



#95
Cyrus Amell

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Of course... some people's idea of interesting might be glowy green hands... so, I can't speak to that.

 

Well I think glowing blue tattoos powered by Lyrium are interesting. Would certainly spice up the romance scenes. 

 

But you're right, magic does seem the go-to solution for the "you are special" schtick. Though given the fact that "regular warriors" can cause earthquakes I think we got past the point of no return when it comes to having someone normal on the scene. 



#96
Donquijote and 59 others

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I'd like them to try to tell a story without using magic as a crutch.  

 

I have an idea... maybe make the main character interesting by giving the player opportunities to do interesting things and build an interesting character.

 

 

You cannot honestly beleive that balnkstate protagonists can be developed to be intreasting just because of some side  mission or intreasting stuff to do.
Their awesome state isn't real is just in your head if it is developed in this way.
Either they are awesome in personality or either they are not it cannot only be developed by doing intreasting stuff


#97
Medhia_Nox

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@Donquijote family:  So, what you're saying is, fiction has been wrong for over five thousands years.  

 

And "glowy hand" is not a personality trait.



#98
Donquijote and 59 others

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@Donquijote family:  So, what you're saying is, fiction has been wrong for over five thousands years.  

 

And "glowy hand" is not a personality trait.

How very clever from you to dance around the words but you grasped the meaning

Interesting stuff cannot fleshed out a personality if there is none

A character is a character while a blankstate PC is something else,an object  that need simply a puppeteer in order to be filled with whatever perspective you wish for them to possess and since these are scripted games you will always have game breaking situation between your character and the writers ideas


#99
Blood Mage Reaver

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I'd like them to try to tell a story without using magic as a crutch.  

 

I have an idea... maybe make the main character interesting by giving the player opportunities to do interesting things and build an interesting character.

 

Of course... some people's idea of interesting might be glowy green hands... so, I can't speak to that.

When your enemies are top class Magisters, a godlike Elf Mage and eons old subterranean Eldritch Abominations how do you expect a non-magical protagonist to have any impact in the story?

 

HEY SOLAS LET ME STAB YOU WITH MAH SWORD! *turns into stone*

 

It doesn't work, your character might be a badass normal like in most Origins but you only become the HoF after drinking a blood magic potion made with darkspawn and archdemon blood.

 

Likewise, the Inquisitor, no matter how talented, is just a nobody no one cared about until he got marked by the orb and walked out of the Fade.

 

Magic drives the plot of dragon age, cry as much as you want about it but the new MC will have some kind of magic wheter you like it or not.

 

The only person who didn't need to be magic was Hawke and that's because he faced only mortal creatures with his/her nemesis being a giant Qunari and a lyrium pumped crazy b****.



#100
Medhia_Nox

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@Blood Mage Reaver:  You're illustrating my point perfectly.

 

For me... magic is killing what was interesting about Thedas... that includes the ridiculously overpowered antagonists. 

 

When your magic is like comic book superpowers... yes, normal men can't stand against it. 

 

When your magic is like sword and sorcery fantasy... then yes, normal men can stand against it.  

 

"IF" this world was supposed to be dark and gritty... it left it behind a while ago.