205 réponses à ce sujet

[RoseLawliet]

I don't see why the Grey Wardens would punish the HoF.

 

The soul of the Old God is clearly no longer commanding a darkspawn army and iirc the Grey Wardens do not concern themselves with things other than Blights and darkspawn. If the Old God were to cause harm after being 'cleansed', then that means the Old Gods themselves are 'evil', but again that does not fall under the darkspawn category.

 

Additionally; how is the end of a blight combined with the survival of the Warden who brought down the Archdemon bad in any way? "Oh **** no more sad symbolic death to garner sympathy"?

 

Sorry if someone else has already said this, but it's not the dragon shape that lets the Old Gods become corrupted into archdemons. It's their Old God soul. So basically anyone who did the dark ritual in Origins (and this includes me... er, I mean Alistair) created the potential for eight total Blights. If the dark ritual has been performed sometime in the past, well, we don't know how many Blights there could be in the future.

[Kakistos_]

Yes but the Calling is just the voice you hear that lets you know that the taint is taking control of you. There is nothing about the Calling that kills or corrupts the Warden. It's the taint. It's like saying that improved hearing will lead to your death. No, the Hero likely only wrote about the Calling to avoid stating outright that the Grey Wardens carry the taint. Stating this would basically confirm that the Joining involves taking the taint into one's self, and that is a Warden secret that should not be revealed to outsiders.

 

Curing the Taint would render a now former Grey Warden inept in their duties. I suppose that the cure could be used when a Warden begins to hear the Calling and then go into retirement instead of going off to die. That would be an interesting development however it has never been the stated of alluded to goal. The Revelations in Awakenings were about the power hidden away in Grey Warden Blood and it's implications and potential advantages if harnessed. The narrative on the Cure the Calling story-line has always been about controlling the Taint and thus delaying the Calling indefinitely not curing the Taint itself.

 

"The taint allows us to sense the darkspawn. The longer we survive with the taint in our blood, the more potent it becomes. Unfortunately, this corruption will eventually overwhelm the Warden; over time, it devours both mind and body, leaving nothing. But what if the spread of the corruption could be stopped, or contained in some way? What if the Warden could become more powerful, without having that power kill him?" - Avernus

 

There was also a clear dialog going on between The Warden, Avernus and The First Warden. None of which involves a Cure for the Taint.

 

"As the Architect surmised, considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. When properly prepared, its effects can be remarkable.

But my research has also revealed some alarming implications, which I've attached in the old Acanthan cipher. I urge you to send this to the First Warden at once." - Grey Warden letters - Avernus to The Warden Commander

[German Soldier]

^Where is this letter from DA2?

Sorry if someone else has already said this, but it's not the dragon shape that lets the Old Gods become corrupted into archdemons. It's their Old God soul. So basically anyone who did the dark ritual in Origins (and this includes me... er, I mean Alistair) created the potential for eight total Blights. If the dark ritual has been performed sometime in the past, well, we don't know how many Blights there could be in the future.

That's why i have no problem in give to Loghain and Alistair an archdemon to the face,that soul need to disappear.
Morrigan can go directly from the castle to the Frostback mountains for all i care.

[KaiserShep]

Id like to see the Wardens try to punish the HoF. So much carnage. The order might just go extinct as a result, especially with the Murder Pope participating.

[Dai Grepher]

Your theory is fallacy and full of simplicity, in your scenario of it being attracted miraculously by Morrigan rather than the darkspawn only by virtue of her of being a beacon which have priority over the darkspawn who are more tainted than her child (because beacon reasons...) it would have simply exploded in her womb and recreated the archdemon from scratch since her child was tainted, understood why your theory doesn't work?

It isn't my theory. It is what is stated in the game. I think you misunderstand the process itself. Morrigan clearly says that the unborn child will act as a beacon for the old god soul, so that it will seek the child. She also states that at this early stage the child will not be affected and will not turn into anything else. Whatever makes this the case is unimportant. What matters is that this is what Morrigan states and that is how the game shows it. These are facts.

That light which is the AD soul in the scene try to escape into the air but it is drawn to the GW instead by the force of the taint and that's why the GW is suffering in tension,if it was a non-GW the light would have not even surrounded the body of the AD-killer and be attracted to it it would have simply escaped unaltered(because no taint)it would have escaped into the air and reach a darkspawn (or like you said miraculously Morrigan because beacon reasons) and poof again archdemon in both cases.

Prove that the same thing would not have happened for a non-Warden. We can't see what this looks like if a non-Warden does it, so you can't claim that the light is the soul entering the Warden, or that the tension is the result of the souls battling against each other. This is all speculation on your part.

The spirit of the critter is altered the moment it surround the GW who killed it thus it gain a resistance that combined with the resistance inherited by the child purify the soul and complete the DR.

More speculation without evidence. It is just as likely that the old god soul goes straight to the child and is not corrupted because the child does not carry the taint.

The whole Archdemon confuses me even more. He is supposed to be a tainted/corrupted OldGod. You kill him and his soul jumps to another tainted body. But why a TAINTED body? Does the taint corrupt the very soul? If only the body is corrupted by the taint, then the soul of the Old god should be free to go anywhere...right? So is the soul itself tainted (?? very big implications here, for all grey Wardens too ??) but they don't reborn like the archdemon.

The inner workings of the taint, soul jump, and Dark Ritual are debatable. I can offer my own thoughts on the matter, but what's important is that it all works as the game depicts.

I think the old god soul is influenced by the taint, which makes it insane and destructive. When it is slain by a non-Warden, the soul is locked in a cycle of traveling to another source of taint that is not resisting it, meaning a darkspawn or tainted creature. It is then in control of that tainted body, and its first instinct is to transform it into that of the dragon, which it always does eventually. It won't go to a Grey Warden naturally because the Wardens have resistance to it. The only way it will is if a Grey Warden strikes the final blow against it. This draws the old god soul to the Warden, and it results in soul cancellation.

With the Dark Ritual, this process is likely foiled by having the unborn child mimic the taint. The child likely possesses the magic of the taint, given by the Grey Warden's seed, but also has the mage mother's magic amplifying it. This is why the unborn child looks like a beacon to the old god soul. So the old god soul, being locked in this cycle of going toward another source of the taint, goes toward what it perceives as the strongest source of the taint, which is the child. Upon entering it however, it is unable to transform the unborn child because the child's body is not corrupted with the taint. The child merely held the taint's magical call. And so the old god soul is locked in that body and is now free from the taint.

This is how I think it works, and this is probably similar to what was going on with the Well of Sorrows. And that would explain how Flemeth knows how to trick the taint's magic. See, the old god soul, once affected by the taint and its magic, is likely sentenced to travel through the taint upon death. So producing a false taint effectively tricks this sentence or calling into sending the old god soul into the unborn child. It is as Morrigan describes it, a loophole. It breaks the cycle by bending the rules.

Curing the Taint would render a now former Grey Warden inept in their duties. I suppose that the cure could be used when a Warden begins to hear the Calling and then go into retirement instead of going off to die. That would be an interesting development however it has never been the stated of alluded to goal.

Right, it could be used near the end of a Warden's shortened lifespan. But it could also be used early on, like on Wardens who serve one year fighting in the Deep Roads, and then they come back and get cured and train more new recruits to go in. This would be to avoid the other negative side-effects of the taint. The cure could also be used on people who contract the taint. In order to save their lives, obviously.

It would be an interesting development, especially in how the First Warden and Senior Wardens react to it, and how the rebels react to it. Although in theory, any rebels who wish to leave the Order would just be able to take the cure and go home. There would have to be something else making them stay, like wanting to correct perceived injustices within the Grey Warden ranks.

It think it was alluded to, though perhaps not directly stated.

The Revelations in Awakenings were about the power hidden away in Grey Warden Blood and it's implications and potential advantages if harnessed. The narrative on the Cure the Calling story-line has always been about controlling the Taint and thus delaying the Calling indefinitely not curing the Taint itself.

Well the story with Awakening was regarding how it benefited the Darkspawn, so that's not relevant to this discussion. As for the idea of putting off the Calling, I wouldn't be opposed to that potential storyline. It's just that it doesn't make sense. The taint is what kills a Grey Warden. The Calling is just the song getting harder to ignore, and that lets you know you're about to succumb to the taint. Sophia Dryden for example became a ghoul. Had the demon not taken over her body, I'm sure she would have been nothing more than a ghoul, or simply a decayed corpse. So I think when the Warden-Commander refers to the Calling in his letter, he's actually referring to the taint. But obviously he can't just say that he's tainted, because that would be revealing too much about the Wardens.

"The taint allows us to sense the darkspawn. The longer we survive with the taint in our blood, the more potent it becomes. Unfortunately, this corruption will eventually overwhelm the Warden; over time, it devours both mind and body, leaving nothing. But what if the spread of the corruption could be stopped, or contained in some way? What if the Warden could become more powerful, without having that power kill him?" - Avernus
 
There was also a clear dialog going on between The Warden, Avernus and The First Warden. None of which involves a Cure for the Taint.

Yeah, but that is regarding Avernus' research. And look closely at what he's talking about. The corruption of the taint. The taint allows them to sense the darkspawn. The taint becomes more potent. It devours both mind and body. What if the spread of that corruption could be stopped or contained? He's referring to the taint the whole time, not the Calling. Again, the Calling is just a sign that the Grey Warden's resistance to the taint is failing. The Calling does not cause the Warden to die.

So either the Hero was referring to the taint, and used "Calling" as a code word to protect the secret, or else BioWare just epicly failed once again in their presentation of lore. Like they mixed up what was what. Taint? Calling? Eh, same thing isn't it? Yeah sure, just put in whatever. It's only that damn Hero of Ferelden people keep bothering us about.

"As the Architect surmised, considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. When properly prepared, its effects can be remarkable.
But my research has also revealed some alarming implications, which I've attached in the old Acanthan cipher. I urge you to send this to the First Warden at once." - Grey Warden letters - Avernus to The Warden Commander

Yes, Grey Warden blood. And the blood carries the taint, not the Calling, which is a song emanated from the old gods.

[German Soldier]

It isn't my theory. It is what is stated in the game. I think you misunderstand the process itself. Morrigan clearly says that the unborn child will act as a beacon for the old god soul, so that it will seek the child. She also states that at this early stage the child will not be affected and will not turn into anything else. Whatever makes this the case is unimportant. What matters is that this is what Morrigan states darkspawns,s how the game shows it. These are facts.


Prove that the same thing would not have happened for a non-Warden. We can't see what this looks like if a non-Warden does it, so you can't claim that the light is the soul entering the Warden, or that the tension is the result of the souls battling against each other. This is all speculation on your part.


More speculation without evidence. It is just as likely that the old god soul goes straight to the child and is not corrupted because the child does not carry the taint.

Gaider explained long ago that what Morrigan reveal there isn't the total picture and that those info are incomplete,you don't know the game better than him since he wrote the whole concept.
The child is tainted understood?It is infected with the taint.
The archdemon would have litterally destroyed Morrigan from the inside if the essence was not altered first and this theory work because the lead writer of dragon age said that was good.
Yes non GW killed Dumat and they were not even able to sense his soul when he was killed.
GW have a connection to the archdemon soul
They can perceive it when the archdemon is killed non GW can't and those are all info on the codex of Dumat in DAO.
The DR work if and only if a GW kill the archdemon otherwise that soul go to a darkspawns can't help you more than the DAO ending where non GW aren't permitted by the writers to kill the AD

[Kakistos_]

^Where is this letter from DA2?

That's why i have no problem in give to Loghain and Alistair an archdemon to the face,that soul need to disappear.
Morrigan can go directly from the castle to the Frostback mountains for all i care.

 

It is found during the Dark Epiphany quest. I believe it is only available if you let Avernus live in DA: Awakening.

 

Well the story with Awakening was regarding how it benefited the Darkspawn, so that's not relevant to this discussion. As for the idea of putting off the Calling, I wouldn't be opposed to that potential storyline. It's just that it doesn't make sense. The taint is what kills a Grey Warden. The Calling is just the song getting harder to ignore, and that lets you know you're about to succumb to the taint. Sophia Dryden for example became a ghoul. Had the demon not taken over her body, I'm sure she would have been nothing more than a ghoul, or simply a decayed corpse. So I think when the Warden-Commander refers to the Calling in his letter, he's actually referring to the taint. But obviously he can't just say that he's tainted, because that would be revealing too much about the Wardens.


Yeah, but that is regarding Avernus' research. And look closely at what he's talking about. The corruption of the taint. The taint allows them to sense the darkspawn. The taint becomes more potent. It devours both mind and body. What if the spread of that corruption could be stopped or contained? He's referring to the taint the whole time, not the Calling. Again, the Calling is just a sign that the Grey Warden's resistance to the taint is failing. The Calling does not cause the Warden to die.

So either the Hero was referring to the taint, and used "Calling" as a code word to protect the secret, or else BioWare just epicly failed once again in their presentation of lore. Like they mixed up what was what. Taint? Calling? Eh, same thing isn't it? Yeah sure, just put in whatever. It's only that damn Hero of Ferelden people keep bothering us about.


Yes, Grey Warden blood. And the blood carries the taint, not the Calling, which is a song emanated from the old gods.

 

How exactly is it not relevant? It is stated quite clearly that the research could directly benefit the Wardens. Yes, the Taint does kill Wardens, that is why there is research being done. The Calling refers to more than just the Song but the end process of a Warden transforming into a Ghoul. If the Taint can be controlled or manipulated then the Calling could be indefinitely delayed. The phrase "Cure the Calling" is not an accident, a mistake or code it is intentional and this story line has been intentionally inching forward for years.

 

"The taint allows us to sense the darkspawn. The longer we survive with the taint in our blood, the more potent it becomes. Unfortunately, this corruption will eventually overwhelm the Warden; over time, it devours both mind and body, leaving nothing. But what if the spread of the corruption could be stopped, or contained in some way? What if the Warden could become more powerful, without having that power kill him?" - Avernus' Notes

 

Again, The Warden has been personally involved since the discovery of the research, they are in personal contact with the First Warden on the issue and then go on a quest to Cure the CALLING. It is all clearly connected. Curing the Taint itself has never been a stated goal but the groundwork for Curing the Calling, manipulating/controlling the Taint and making Wardens stronger and no longer having to fear a premature death via the Taint has been laid.

[Silcron]

Mmm, hmm. Obviously. Aha. Of course.

(So, what is this about again?)

[Kakistos_]

Mmm, hmm. Obviously. Aha. Of course.

(So, what is this about again?)

 

The Inquisitor is apparently going to "ruin" The Warden based on vague references to the Dark Ritual heard in the conversation between Morrigan and Flemeth. Why the Inquisitor would care I have no idea.

[GoldenGail3]

HAHAHA! I'd love to see em try. I'm sure that my Queen Cousland will kill them all...

[German Soldier]

The Inquisitor is apparently going to "ruin" The Warden based on vague references to the Dark Ritual heard in the conversation between Morrigan and Flemeth. Why the Inquisitor would care I have no idea.

Because an old god should not be free to roam in the world without the wardens being aware of that,it is not about the HoF it is about an old god that need to be tracked down and killed for good this time or do we really need to seat and do nothing just because it may intact the HoF reputation?

As i said the warden is not entitled for the silence of the inquisitor.

 

HAHAHA! I'd love to see em try. I'm sure that my Queen Cousland will kill them all...

That's just silly invincibility curtain, without it the warden isn't any more special than anyone else and assuming that the warden is more powerful than all the ill trained GW of the Anderfels like the Chamberlain warden or the others high hierarchy is far fetched.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because an old god should not be free to roam in the world without the wardens being aware of that,it is not about the HoF it is about an old god that need to be tracked down and killed for good this time or do we really need to seat and do nothing just because it may intact the HoF reputation?

As i said the warden is not entitled for the silence of the inquisitor.

 

That's just silly invincibility curtain, without it the warden isn't any more special than anyone else and assuming that the warden is more powerful than all the ill trained GW of the Anderfels like the Chamberlain warden or the others high hierarchy is far fetched.

There is no old god only his soul it doesn't have even physical body so i don't know how you would kill it, aside that it is out grey warden's reach.   

 

Considering that wardens reputation for being excellent warriors is way exaggerated as they die very quickly from hands of various enemies, i wouldn't say it is far fetched.Even in awakening vast difference between HoF and other wardens combat abilities is noted.That is even without going into political power.

[German Soldier]

There is no old god only his soul it doesn't have even physical body so i don't know how you would kill it, aside that it is out grey warden's reach.   

 

Considering that wardens reputation for being excellent warriors is way exaggerated as they die very quickly from hands of various enemies, i wouldn't say it is far fetched.Even in awakening vast difference between HoF and other wardens combat abilities is noted.That is even without going into political power.

The dragon shape the body is not what it matters as we clearly see that the soul is able to reshape the body and it contains all of it's power,he remain an old god ancient being even without the body.

Of course that is beyond everyone reach simply because nobody know where it is aside from Mythal,however this doesn't mean that GW shoud not investigate.

 

 

Not really being protected by invincibility curtain isn't the same thing as being all powerful.

The HoF isn't any more special and powerful than everyone in the world just because it was protected by invincibility curtain during DAO.

-First you don't know the power of the high hierarchy of the wardens their skills as fighters

-Second the warden wasn't remarkable in terms of training s/he didn't had any particular sophisticated training it was just like  protected form invincibility curtain in DAO.

[Secret Rare]

There is no old god only his soul it doesn't have even physical body so i don't know how you would kill it

 

I'm unsure as for how a soul can live in the mortal world without a body.

As far as we are concerned the old god never lost his body he merely changed it from the archdemon to kieren to Flemeth,so we always saw the soul into a body.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

The dragon shape the body is not what it matters as we clearly see that the soul is able to reshape the body and it contains all of it's power,he remain an old god ancient being even without the body.

Of course that is beyond everyone reach simply because nobody know where it is aside from Mythal,however this doesn't mean that GW shoud not investigate.

 

 

Not really being protected by invincibility curtain isn't the same thing as being all powerful.

The HoF isn't any more special and powerful than everyone in the world just because it was protected by invincibility curtain during DAO.

-First you don't know the power of the high hierarchy of the wardens their skills as fighters

-Second the warden wasn't remarkable in terms of training s/he didn't had any particular sophisticated training it was just like  protected form invincibility curtain in DAO.

 

 

It is what it matters because without it we don't have blight, soul in itself doesn't emits calling like an actual old god do thus it is almost practically irrelevant information for grey wardens because of that and before mentioned by me reasons.

 

There is no such thing as "invincibility curtain" if character is powerful enough to defeat for an example Archdemon that means person is very capable combatant , HoF defeated extraordinary opponents thus his/her abilities are extraordinary.

 

I know, i saw high-hierarchy wardens and it didn't necessarily meant they were extremely powerful just because they had high range among

wardens.

 

 

 

 

I'm unsure as for how a soul can live in the mortal world without a body.

As far as we are concerned the old god never lost his body he merely changed it from the archdemon to kieren to Flemeth,so we always saw the soul into a body.

 

 

It was extracted from Kieran by Flemeth , and even when in boy's body it still didn't emit calling so it didn't have characteristics of old god.  

[Secret Rare]

snip

 

 

It was extracted from Kieran by Flemeth , and even when in boy's body it still didn't emit calling so it didn't have characteristics of old god.  

The soul of the old god is  what it matters not the body, all the powers of the dragon lies within the soul.

We never saw the soul of this dragon without a body it always had one,also just because he isn't an archdemon doesn't mean that he is not a danger of whom the GW have not to take care.

I never considered the Warden of DAO to be particularly strong,they were not provided by any particular impressive skill or extreme training or unique abilities in fact most of the time the enemies were not defeated single handedly.

Or are you trying to imply that the warden defeated alone the Archdemon and the horde because that would be an overly silly speculation on your part.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

The soul of the old god is  what it matters not the body, all the powers of the dragon lies within the soul.

We never saw the soul of this dragon without a body it always had one,also just because he isn't an archdemon doesn't mean that he is not a danger of whom the GW have not to take care.

I never considered the Warden of DAO to be particularly strong,we were not provided by any particular skill or extreme training or unique abilities in fact most of the time the enemies were not defeated single handedly.

Or are you trying to imply that the warden defeated alone the Archdemon and the horde because that would be overly silly.

 

Not rly , once again as i see you failed to read what i have said.Soul itself doesn't provide much significance to grey wardens as once again it doesn't emit the calling nor it has body, for people like Morrigan or Flemeth soul may matter but for wardens it has not much significance.

 

Unless you want to tell me that extremely powerful opponents die by stumbling and breaking their neck it should be obvious that the warden is extraordinary combatant and s/he is described to be one.If player wishes they can fight alone many fights against powerful opponents so it is up to the player but in both cases the warden still is extraordinary combatant.    

[Secret Rare]

Not rly , once again as i see you failed to read what i have said.Soul itself doesn't provide much significance to grey wardens as once again it doesn't emit the calling nor it has body, for people like Morrigan or Flemeth soul may matter but for wardens it has not much significance.

 

 

 

Unless you want to tell me that extremely powerful opponents die by stumbling and breaking their neck it should be obvious that the warden is extraordinary combatant and s/he is described to be one.If player wishes they can fight alone many fights against powerful opponents so it is up to the player but in both cases the warden still is extraordinary combatant.    

What's to say that an old god awakened can't simply control his own calling?

more likely he is able to control that power now and that's why is much more of a danger than he was before.

 

 

Sorry but you're being silly here by using gameplay/story segregation on solo games

The warden recruits allies because alone is not able to defeat single handedly the archdemon or the horde

(the warden isn't an all powerful Evanuris like Solas) so for you to say that the warden is the most formidable all powerful fighter of the order soley based on speculation isn't the truth.

The other user defined it right It is called invincibility curtain,i may as well use the orlesian warden which is a member of the order who didn't defeated the blight or killed the archdemon and yet won against powerful foes like the mother or the Architect simply because he was not permitted to fail by the narrative.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

What's to say that an old god awakened can't simply control his own calling?

more likely he is able to control that power now and that's why is much more of a danger than he was before.

 

 

Sorry but you're being silly here by using gameplay/story segregation on solo games

The warden recruits allies because alone is not able to defeat single handedly the archdemon or the horde

(the warden isn't an all powerful Evanuris like Solas) so for you to say that the warden is the most formidable all powerful fighter of the order soley based on speculation isn't the truth.

The other user defined it right It is called invincibility curtain,i may as well use the orlesian warden which is a member of the order who didn't defeated the blight or killed the archdemon and yet won against powerful foes like the mother or the Architect simply because he was not permitted to fail by the narrative.

 

 

What is not supported by anything nor once again old god has a body to act upon own whims.

 

You are silly one here, only mandatory companion in the game is Alistair and even then game acknowledges certain missions that Alistair was left in the camp if you left him in the camp, so warden not only can be alone in gameplay. but also in story.In Awakening it will be acknowledged by character if you spent game without recruiting anyone so also you can spend almost entire expansion solo.There is no speculation here that the warden is extraordinary fighter , hell even your poor attempts that warden has from companions still means little because situations they face would still require exceptional skills even with help.

 

That merely once again means that orlesian warden is also exceptional warrior , unless once again you want to tell me that their opponents killed themselves , sure they are powerful because writers made them powerful but that nonetheless changes fact they are powerful.  

[German Soldier]

 

That merely once again means that orlesian warden is also exceptional warrior , unless once again you want to tell me that their opponents killed themselves , sure they are powerful because writers made them powerful but that nonetheless changes fact they are powerful.  

Which clearly invalidate your assumptions in saying that the warden of DAO is stronger than the other members  of the order of the grey,since the playable Orlesian warden of DAA have nothing to envy to the warden of DAO.

You simply don't know how powerful the grey wardens are because you don't know most of them,you actually don't know any of teh others commanders aside from Clarel.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Which clearly invalidate your assumptions in saying that the warden of DAO is stronger than the other members  of the order of the grey,since the playable Orlesian warden of DAA have nothing to envy to the warden of DAO.

You simply don't know how powerful the grey wardens are because you don't know most of them,you actually don't know any of teh others commanders aside from Clarel.

 

Not rly, as i said those two wardens are protagonists and due that fact they were made to be extraordinary powerful pretty much same for Hawke and Inquistor, and well when they were compared to rest of the warden they were said to be much better combatants than most of the wardens .As well as i said high rank among wardens doesn't mean you are ultimate badass, Clarel proved that beautifully with her rather poor performance, where lower rank Riordan beat her in preformance against actual archdemon. 

[German Soldier]

Not rly, as i said those two wardens are protagonists and due that fact they were made to be extraordinary powerful pretty much same for Hawke and Inquistor, and well they were compared to be much better combatants than most of the wardens .As well as i said high rank among wardens doesn't mean you are ultimate badass, Clarel proved that beautifully with her rather poor performance, where lower rank Riordan beat her in preformance against actual archdemon. 

Riordan is a rather poor example to use since he was a senior warden with 30 years of experience,he was an important member of the order not a nobody.

Plus you just said what i said earlier with others words,the warden of DAO was made a protagonist and for this only reason was not permitted to fail and this is hardly a yardstick to value the character prowess and claim that the charcter is more stronger than the others Gw that you don't even know.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Riordan is a rather poor example to use since he was a senior warden with 30 years of experience,he was an important member of the order not a nobody.

Plus you just said what i said earlier with others words,the warden of DAO was made a protagonist and for this only reason was not permitted to fail,this is hardly a yardstick to value the character prowess and claim that the chaarcter is more stronger than the other that you don't even know.

 

 

Where it is said he was warden 30 years? Hardly, he wasn't even Constable and yet as i said preformed better than Warden Commander, what shows that rank high rank among wardens speaks very little.

That doesn't matter being protagonist and being powerful because of that still doesn't change fact they are that powerful , by simple fact they managed defeat those opponents speaks about their power.Basically by your inane logic wardens enemies tripped and broke their necks due to fact they were protagonist not because warden was extraordinary combatant.

[German Soldier]

Where it is said he was warden 30 years? Hardly, he wasn't even Constable and yet as i said preformed better than Warden Commander, what shows that rank high rank among wardens speaks very little.

That doesn't matter being protagonist and being powerful because of that still doesn't change fact they are that powerful , by simple fact they managed defeat those opponents speaks about their power.Basically by your inane logic wardens enemies tripped and broke their necks due to fact they were protagonist not because warden was extraordinary combatant.

Riordan was a warden from thirty years since he underwent the joining with Duncan who was a GW since the times of the Calling which happen thirty years before of the blight.

He had far more experience than Clarel and he was a senior warden not a nobody.

The protagonists are not permitted to fail while they are under the player control they cannot be judged in their prowess,the moment i see the warden of DAO doing something out of the player control is the moment i will judge their abilities.

Also the point still stand you don't know of what the others GW commanders are capable of you don't even know who they are.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Riordan was a warden from thirty years since he underwent the joining with Duncan who was a GW since the times of the Calling which happen thirty years before of the blight.

He had far more experience than Clarel and he was a senior warden not a nobody.

The protagonists are not permitted to fail while they are under the player control they cannot be judged in their prowess,the moment i see the warden of DAO doing something out of the player control is the moment i will judge their abilities.

Also the point still stand you don't know of what the others GW commanders are capable of you don't even know who they are.

 

You are wrong, the calling happens in 9:10 and blight started in 9:30.Senior warden, doesn't mean much as i have said far from highest rank among wardens and you deliberately keep ignoring it.

 

They are allowed to fail and it is called game over , plus none of that matters but you keep ingnoring what im saying , once again fact warden is protagonist doesn't change fact that they were powerful enough to defeat those enemies what speaks of their power regardless of whether character is protagonist.

Also i already pointed that , that rank doesn't matter and warden when comparred was said to be much more powerful than other wardens.