205 réponses à ce sujet

[sniper_arrow]

 

There it is.

The contradictory perspective that work through absoluteness.

One question  are you a Qunari? It is called word of Ashkaari Koslun right?

 

To be fair, Kommandor did ask you for the source just to settle everything.

[TheKomandorShepard]

To be fair, Kommandor did ask you for the source just to settle everything.

He, doesn't have source of his statement (as if he had, he would provide one many posts before), so he tried move away from issue.He tried to use Last Flight but i refuted this , so he focused on trying to compare 2 different sets of being to prove his point.  

[German Soldier]

Gaider was saying that it was possible. Not that it was so. Canon is what is in the game.


Because its in the game, and she knows the spell and how it operates.


But she confirmed the old god soul would seek the child like a beacon.


But the non-Wardens didn't have the Dark Ritual at the time, so it's irrelevant. 

 

 

I think that we have a different view of this word canon,canon isn't the truth canon is just the little info the game provide.

 

She just told to you the final effect of the ritual not how the magic operate with this i mean the step that confuse the archdemon soul into not going into a darkspawn.

She just said "beacon reasons" which doesn't mean anything because i clearly told to you in previous post that the archdemon spirit is sent to a tainted child and as such it should make Morrigan womb explode

 In case you did not noticed the Architect already tried to use the GW resistance on the old god  and it did not work same logically should happen to morrigan child which is tainted.

 

It is not irrelevant,the point of that codex of Dumat is that it reveal that GW have the ability to perceive the archdemon spirit and to interact with it when a archdemon is killed non GW can't.

You clearly misunderstood the transfer of that soul does not happen  instantly same for the soul destruction.

[Secret Rare]

To be fair, Kommandor did ask you for the source just to settle everything.

TKS perspective operate through a comically ill-advised exactitude that lead to an incorrect thoroughness which works with the gods lords fallacy and that engender  the most tedious and convoluted cycles of argumentations into the forum.

In which the gods lords are either the writers or some DA characters or the in game suppositions like the codexes, when none of these things means the absolute truth since writers use those elements to provide perspectives not truths

They don't exist none of this is “so easily defined” Just as in our real world in the end there may not be any ultimate truth, only different degrees of what you believe

 

 

As i recall i provided my argumentation as for why i'm inclined to believe that the corruption,taint,blight or whatever provide physicals and magical benefits as it is observed from several kind of animals whom were more powerful,agressive and tougher than their non corrupted versions.

Mage Avernus also believe(it is not the truth it is his perspective) from his researches that the taint is a source of power,so i'm inclined to believe that the power of blood which are GW related abilities provided from the concoction grow stronger with the aging of the warden because they depend on the taint within their blood and they are not only magical but also physical abilities.

This is why i  believe  senior GW are usually more powerful than the recruits,but obviously some recruits can be so formidable that they are more powerful than a senior GW.

In order to disagree or agree TKS don't operate through his own perspective  he operates through the exactitude of the gods and he is looking for sources i.e truths when they  represent perspectives.

 

 

 

There is nothing contradictory here , developers are one that dictate everything in the setting so their word is absolute truth when it comes to setting created by them.

 

 

 

Sheryl Chee  is one of the  official Bioware writers so she is one of the god lords and her word is truth.

So if Leliana(which she wrote  it's official) said that she was sent by the Maker than is the truth.

 

The tragedy aren't your thoughts but the fact that you hold them as the truths with no room for discussion

[Kakistos_]

No prob.


Incorrect. All I'm claiming is that the Calling is not what is being cured here. The Calling does not make the taint spread faster, and it is not what kills the Warden. The taint kills the Warden. The taint causes the Calling. And this was not expanded on in Awakening, which was only about the Architect using the Grey Warden resistance to free the Darkspawn from the song, and everyone knew about the Warden resistance already.


Yes, DA2 states this. Not Awakening.


Yes, we know that considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. Yes we know that when properly prepared its effects can be remarkable. We learned all this at Soldier's Peak. But what you need to notice is that Avernus is referring to the blood. Why? Because the blood carries the taint. The Calling is the voice of the old god. The voice of the old god is not carried in the blood.


They're not talking about curing anything in that quote. They are talking about the power that lies in Grey Warden blood. Warden blood is tainted. There is no mention of the Calling.


Right, control the TAINT. I agree that Avernus is trying to control the taint. He's trying to tap into it so that the Grey Warden can live with the taint, reap its powers, but not succumb to it. And yes, as a result of controlling this spread, the Calling will not be heard. I never denied this. But this in itself is not seen as a cure for the Calling, it is seen as controlling the taint, mastering it, tapping into it. Not hearing the Calling is just the result of preventing the taint from taking over and corrupting the Warden.

Now, none of this has anything to do with the information Morrigan gave to the Hero. The Hero wants be be free of the taint completely, like Fiona was freed from it. The Hero does not want to die. The Calling does not kill the Wardens. The Calling merely acts as an alarm to let the Warden know that the taint is starting to take over completely.

 

Controlling the Taint is curing the Calling, that is clearly the goal. There is nothing to suggest that the Hero wants to cure the Taint completely, unless at the time the Calling comes in order to continue living. They aren't just in this for themselves as I pointed out with the communications between them and the First Warden. Curing the Taint would mean that they are no longer Wardens and far less able to perform their duty. The Warden doesn't want an escape from the Order, she/he wants the Wardens to continue fighting Darkspawn without sacrificing a chunk of their life in the process. Here is Morrigan briefly summarizing the Warden's quest to cure the CALLING for all Wardens:

 

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

TKS perspective operate through a comically ill-advised exactitude that lead to an incorrect thoroughness which works with the gods lords fallacy and that engender  the most tedious and convoluted cycles of argumentations into the forum.

In which the gods lords are either the writers or some DA characters or the in game suppositions like the codexes, when none of these things means the absolute truth since writers use those elements to provide perspectives not truths

They don't exist none of this is “so easily defined” Just as in our real world in the end there may not be any ultimate truth, only different degrees of what you believe

 

 

As i recall i provided my argumentation as for why i'm inclined to believe that the corruption,taint,blight or whatever provide physicals and magical benefits as it is observed from several kind of animals whom were more powerful,agressive and tougher than their non corrupted versions.

Mage Avernus also believe(it is not the truth it is his perspective) from his researches that the taint is a source of power,so i'm inclined to believe that the power of blood which are GW related abilities provided from the concoction grow stronger with the aging of the warden because they depend on the taint within their blood and they are not only magical but also physical abilities.

This is why i  believe  senior GW are usually more powerful than the recruits,but obviously some recruits can be so formidable that they are more powerful than a senior GW.

In order to disagree or agree TKS don't operate through his own perspective  he operates through the exactitude of the gods and he is looking for sources i.e truths when they  represent perspectives.

 

 

Sheryl Chee  is one of the  official Bioware writers so she is one of the god lords and her word is truth.

So if Leliana(which she wrote  it's official) said that she was sent by the Maker than is the truth.

 

The tragedy aren't your thoughts but the fact that you hold them as the truths with no room for discussion

 

 

LoL, you are one operates on logical fallacies trying to sell that wardens become stronger with age despite having 0 evidence, thus being forced to make ridiculous comparisons between 2 entirely different types of beings despite them having only 1 thing in common.Yes there is "ultimate truth" in real life it is called fact.

 

None of stuff Avernus discovers even refers to wardens becoming stronger with age only to awakening power that lies within taint via experimentation.

 

Plus, what kind of bullshit you are trying to sell here that is not word of writer , only word of character written by writer, anything wirters say concerning their setting is fact, same for proven things that are said by characters and codex entries.Funny thing, none of writers , characters or codex entries provides any evidence to support your perspective making effectively your headcanon that you tried to sell as fact and when you failed to do so you tried to talk about perspectives.      

[Secret Rare]

Yes there is "ultimate truth" in real life it is called fact.

 

   

[TheKomandorShepard]

*Chop*

You shouldn't laugh at your lack of knowledge, but i guess if that makes you feel better.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

None of stuff Avernus discovers even refers to wardens becoming stronger with age only to awakening power that lies within taint via experimentation.

 

I don't see any reason as for why those powers couldn't become more stronger as the taint progress in the grey wardens bodies  if they depend on the taint in the first place.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't see any reason as for why those powers couldn't become more stronger as the taint progress in the grey wardens bodies  if they depend on the taint in the first place.

Sorry , i won't even adress it because you didn't even bother to read that properly, once again making unrelated to what i said post.

[Secret Rare]

You shouldn't laugh at your lack of knowledge, but i guess if that makes you feel better.

Oh please indulge me to learn these "ultimate truths" of life i'm waiting

[Secret Rare]

I don't see any reason as for why those powers couldn't become more stronger as the taint progress in the grey wardens bodies  if they depend on the taint in the first place.

Interesting perspective which obviously doesn't work because Solas didn't gave his approval    TKS logic

[TheKomandorShepard]

Oh please indulge me to learn these "ultimate truths" of life i'm waiting

Well, i just wrote a comment.

 

See, here you go.

 

Interesting perspective which obviously doesn't work because Solas didn't gave his approval    TKS logic

No , because it isn't supported by anything in the series and only thing it supports it is your headcanon.

If you want make a claim you need an evidence. TKS logic.

[Secret Rare]

 

 

No , because it isn't supported by anything in the series and only thing it supports it is your headcanon.

If you want make a claim you need an evidence. TKS logic.

Secret rare logic system

If you want to make a claim you have to provide a theory which is a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

 

Evidences like codexes are nothing more that the available body of facts or information indicating a belief or proposition  and that can be rebut at every moment

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Secret rare logic system

If you want to make a claim you have to provide a theory which is a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

 

Evidences like codexes are nothing more that the available body of facts or information indicating a belief or proposition  and that can be rebut at every moment

 

Theory is worthless if you have nothing to support it, i may as well theorize that Qunari are cyborgs because Qunari are strong and tough.

 

So, if you don't have evidence to support your theory it isn't worth anything, besides you tried to sell it as truth.

 

[AlanC9]

Secret rare logic system
If you want to make a claim you have to provide a theory which is a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
 

I'm having trouble following this. Exactly what phenomenon is your theory supposed to explain, again?

[Secret Rare]

I'm having trouble following this. Exactly what phenomenon is your theory supposed to explain, again?

Why those infected from the taint grow to be more stronger,aggressive and faster as the taint progress in their bodies.

If that is true for living creatures like animals i don't see why it should be untrue for GW afterall they are just persons with the taint.

[Dai Grepher]

S/He refered specifically to grey wardens getting stronger with age what isn't supported anywhere, while trying use series of incorrect arguments that either don't exist or don't match this specific example .

Well, I think it's implied. The taint becomes stronger as time goes on. That's a fact. So logically a Grey Warden becomes more in tune with the taint. So they become a little stronger in that respect. But there could be a trade off, to where the mind and body break down because of the taint. So even if the taint gets stronger and enhances those related abilities, the taint might also take a greater toll on the body and mind that negate any potential gain.

I could see this going either way.

I think some of the lexical issues might just come from the fact that DAI seemed really reluctant to refer to the Taint as "the Taint".  The Warden's letter uses "the Calling" instead, explicitly stating that to be what kills the Wardens.  On Varric's personal quest, there are references to "Blighted" lyrium instead of "Tainted" lyrium, etc.

I agree, and that's what I suggested to Kakistos_.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

Why those infected from the taint grow to be more stronger,aggressive and faster

Hold on!

i remembered that in Legacy Hawke remarks and is impressed by Larius speed!

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Why those infected from the taint grow to be more stronger,aggressive and faster as the taint progress in their bodies.

If that is true for living creatures like animals i don't see why it should be untrue for GW afterall they are just persons with the taint.

 

What was never stated or shown to be in case for grey wardens.GW aren't ghouls, animals and go through specific ritual that leads to different product rather than just being exposed to taint.

 

 

Well, I think it's implied. The taint becomes stronger as time goes on. That's a fact. So logically a Grey Warden becomes more in tune with the taint. So they become a little stronger in that respect. But there could be a trade off, to where the mind and body break down because of the taint. So even if the taint gets stronger and enhances those related abilities, the taint might also take a greater toll on the body and mind that negate any potential gain.

I could see this going either way.
 

Only thing that is said, is that grey wardens become more in tune with darkspawn thoughts near their calling, what doesn't even indicate their physical attributes increasing.

[Secret Rare]

What was never stated or shown to be in case for grey wardens.GW aren't ghouls, animals and go through specific ritual that leads to different product rather than just being exposed to taint.

 

 

 

Persons aren't animals ok.....

 

 

Too bad that i supported by own theory with general principles that pertains the taint effects on bodies while you only try to push codex or characters informations as the ultimate truths.

GW slowly become ghouls and develop the disease(as Riordan said he needed a doctor)

What kind of evidence do you possess to deny that a GW grow more stronger and faster while the resistance in their blood is devoured by the taint?

You have nothing no evidence to deny anything

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Too bad that i supported by own theory with general principles that pertains the taint effects on bodies while you only try to push codex or characters informations as the ultimate truths.

GW slowly become ghouls and develop the disease(as Riordan said he needed a doctor)

What kind of evidence do you possess to deny that a GW grow more stronger and faster while the resistance in their blood is devoured by the taint?

You have nothing no evidence to deny anything

 

Principles that doesn't apply to grey wardens as you speak about animal ghouls that underwent vast body transformations and by that changed their pervious form a result of exposure to taint, suffer negative effects that come with taint, while grey wardens remain in their normal form not suffering from negative effects of the taint until the calling and process of their creation is vastly different than in case of ghoul.So same principles that apply to ghouls doesn't necessarily apply to grey wardens and principle you are talking about wasn't supported in that case by anyone and anything.

 

Where and when Riordan said he needs a doctor and in what context, becuase your claims are highly questionable as in first place you tend apply false context to what was said by another characters like you did with last flight conversation and Avernus. 

 

Plus, i don't need provide evidence of that not being in the case.You one trying prove validity of your statment not me, im merely questioning it.

[Dai Grepher]

I think that we have a different view of this word canon,canon isn't the truth canon is just the little info the game provide.

Yeah, that is my definition too. The info that the game provides. All we have is what Morrigan states to be the case.

She just told to you the final effect of the ritual not how the magic operate with this i mean the step that confuse the archdemon soul into not going into a darkspawn.

No, she explained why. The soul seeks the child like a beacon. A beacon gives off a visual cue or signal. That is why the soul goes towards it.

She just said "beacon reasons" which doesn't mean anything because i clearly told to you in previous post that the archdemon spirit is sent to a tainted child and as such it should make Morrigan womb explode

That's your baseless opinion that it should make her womb explode. She explained this too. At that early stage the child can absorb the essence and not be corrupted. She clearly stated this.

In case you did not noticed the Architect already tried to use the GW resistance on the old god  and it did not work same logically should happen to morrigan child which is tainted.

No, because they are two different things. The Architect used tainted blood on an old god's body and it was corrupted, resistance or no. The Architect should have known better, because his version of the Joining was only working on beings that were already Darkspawn.

Morrigan's Dark Ritual is completely different. She uses magic to allow the unborn child to emit a signal that attracts the soul of the old god to enter into it. The difference is day and night.

It is not irrelevant,the point of that codex of Dumat is that it reveal that GW have the ability to perceive the archdemon spirit and to interact with it when a archdemon is killed non GW can't.

It's irrelevant because it has no bearing on the Dark Ritual. Grey Wardens sensing the archdemon's soul, or knowing when it is destroyed, have nothing to do with an event where the soul travels into an unborn child via magical ritual. It was never done until Origins, and in many worldstates it wasn't done then either.

You are assuming that the final blow animation shows a Grey Warden interacting with the soul. That is not a certainty.

You clearly misunderstood the transfer of that soul does not happen  instantly same for the soul destruction.

But how do you know? For all we know that is just energy being released from a magical creature. For all we know the soul transfer to the Warden doesn't happen until after the explosion.

Controlling the Taint is curing the Calling, that is clearly the goal.

What is clearly the goal? Curing the taint, or preventing the Calling? Yes, curing the taint indirectly "cures" the Calling by not allowing the taint to corrupt the mind and body.

There is nothing to suggest that the Hero wants to cure the Taint completely, unless at the time the Calling comes in order to continue living.

There is everything to suggest this, and the game outright states that its the taint that kills. Let me put it to you this way, say you "cure" the Calling. The Warden never hears the Calling. Okay, but the Warden still dies from corruption. What good was "curing" the Calling then?

Check the conversation with Riordan. He states, "If possible I should be the one to make that final blow. I am the eldest and the taint won't spare me much longer anyway."

He states that the taint won't spare him much longer.

The Calling is just the archdemon's or old god's voice calling out to the Wardens through the taint. The Calling doesn't kill anyone.

They aren't just in this for themselves as I pointed out with the communications between them and the First Warden. Curing the Taint would mean that they are no longer Wardens and far less able to perform their duty.

That's exactly what it means. And the Hero is perfectly fine with that. Or mine is anyway. Not sure what other players think of this. But Inquisition makes it clear that the Hero wants to go on living, not die. It's the taint that kills. That is a fact. So it is the taint that the Hero wants to cure.

The Warden doesn't want an escape from the Order, she/he wants the Wardens to continue fighting Darkspawn without sacrificing a chunk of their life in the process.

I respect you, but I think this is just baseless supposition on your part. My Hero had to be conscripted. He never wanted to be a Warden. He felt betrayed by Duncan and even by Alistair somewhat. He thought it was wrong what the Wardens were doing. He established the Silver Order and made some reforms to the Wardens in Ferelden. He enjoyed his life at court and returned to it as soon as he could. So of course he wants to be free from the taint.

I am not in a position where I can watch the video right now. I will have to review it later, and will reply to it then.

[Dai Grepher]

Only thing that is said, is that grey wardens become more in tune with darkspawn thoughts near their calling, what doesn't even indicate their physical attributes increasing.

Okay. If it's a discussion about physical attributes, then it's more of a grey area. No pun. I would think the taint would make a person weaker over time. Or at least not as strong as the person would have been without the taint.

One thing that suggests the opposite is Avernus' Concoction. It unlocks power within the taint and likely also slows its spread. This gives two new skills/spells. However, just allowing the taint to advance naturally would probably only give a negligible boost to physical ability, and would likely have more of a negative effect on it than positive.

Though Morrigan remarks on Grey Warden endurance in the sack. Does that count as increased physical ability?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Okay. If it's a discussion about physical attributes, then it's more of a grey area. No pun. I would think the taint would make a person weaker over time. Or at least not as strong as the person would have been without the taint.

One thing that suggests the opposite is Avernus' Concoction. It unlocks power within the taint and likely also slows its spread. This gives two new skills/spells. However, just allowing the taint to advance naturally would probably only give a negligible boost to physical ability, and would likely have more of a negative effect on it than positive.

Though Morrigan remarks on Grey Warden endurance in the sack. Does that count as increased physical ability?

 

Well there is no evidence on getting weaker or stronger, so i won't take side on that.

 

Avernus increased warden power through experimentation and unnatural means and even then it isn't stated or shown that physical attributes increase with it rather than providing warden with new sets of powers.

 

Not rly, considering that wardens have to survive joining what may require good physical condition and health in first place, but even if not wardens life style in first place requires being in better shape than average joe. Pretty much it would be akin to Isabela complementing Hawke on being lion in the bed despite Hawke not being warden.