46 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

I would argue that the first playthrough is going to be the most important one, because if someone isn't enjoying their first playthrough, there aren't going to be subsequent playthroughs. Not all players play a game in the hopes of improving their use of the system in subsequent playthroughs. I personally don't want a steep learning curve, I want to enjoy the first playthrough and use others to explore story choices I didn't pick the first time.

Personally, I like games that are easy to learn, yet hard to master. I actually thought ME3's combat was a stellar example of that. Inquisition, not so much.

[vbibbi]

Personally, I like games that are easy to learn, yet hard to master. I actually thought ME3's combat was a stellar example of that. Inquisition, not so much.

Yeah I don't mind that. It took me a few playthroughs before I even tried insanity mode in ME3 but I enjoyed the normal difficulty with no problem for my first few playthroughs. I didn't feel like I needed to improve my game play or turn down the difficulty.

[DomeWing333]

One solution could be to, instead of using supply caches, just have mages be able to use healing spells outside of combat to top off the party without digging into the potion supply. This way, healing in combat would still be limited and subject to attrition if one plays poorly, but exploration would involve less backtracking for more supplies. As a bonus, it also quells some of the complaints over mages losing their major function according to the lore.

[AlanC9]

I would argue that the first playthrough is going to be the most important one, because if someone isn't enjoying their first playthrough, there aren't going to be subsequent playthroughs. Not all players play a game in the hopes of improving their use of the system in subsequent playthroughs. I personally don't want a steep learning curve, I want to enjoy the first playthrough and use others to explore story choices I didn't pick the first time.

You didn't explicitly answer my question. I take it that your answer for how long a new player playing on Normal should be able to go without running out of health potions is "forever"?

And this is going to sound mean, but since you're not interested in gameplay challenges, why not turn the difficulty down to Casual? You said you didn't want to turn the difficulty down, but you didn't say why.

Threat would be a lot easier to use if there were actually tactics. As it is, I would have to switch to a warrior character, select threat generating abilities, then go back to the other character. It's micromanagement on a consistent level, which drags out the gameplay for me.

I don't follow this at all. With War Cry and Challenge set to Preferred, my tanks keep enemies taunted without any intervention from me. Occasionally -- very occasionally -- I'll want a specific target Challenged and I'll have to order that myself. But hey, the game's not supposed to play itself completely.

[Seraphim24]

If we're only talking about losing a tiny bit of health, that is the design intent. There's supposed to be some tension between what you want to do and what you actually can do. That's how a resource-management game works.

Also note that in a new zone you will often be moving forward towards more health, as you establish new camps and seize keeps.

 

Whoa! I didn't know there were gamers here...

[vbibbi]

You didn't explicitly answer my question. I take it that your answer for how long a new player playing on Normal should be able to go without running out of health potions is "forever"?

And this is going to sound mean, but since you're not interested in gameplay challenges, why not turn the difficulty down to Casual? You said you didn't want to turn the difficulty down, but you didn't say why.

I don't follow this at all. With War Cry and Challenge set to Preferred, my tanks keep enemies taunted without any intervention from me. Occasionally -- very occasionally -- I'll want a specific target Challenged and I'll have to order that myself. But hey, the game's not supposed to play itself completely.

I don't have a magic number of minutes when running back to camp becomes "too much." I would say at least an hour would be nice.

 

For lowering difficulty, I've played on casual before and still had to fast travel back to camp more than I thought was fun. Casual setting shouldn't be automatic win, but it should decrease the need for restocking considerably.

 

I think I noticed it in the game because 95% of the game we're in a wilderness zone with respawning enemies. There is no Denerim market, no daytime Kirkwall, no Redcliffe village pre- and post-zombie apocalypse. There's VR, which after the first visit there's not really a reason to visit, and Haven/Skyhold. So the majority of the game has me walking through combat zones, because even if I've cleared a map, when I go back there are more enemies to fight (who don't give me experience any more).

 

In my experience, setting something to preferred didn't work very well. I didn't notice anyone actually using a preferred ability more often than just auto attacking or another ability.

[fraggle]

I am someone who does not enjoy crafting. I think it's boring, time consuming, the UI was horribly designed, and I enjoyed games where looted equipment was unique and meaningful. Your opinion sounds to be that crafting is the method of dealing with the new health system, so those who don't like the new health system and don't want to be forced to craft items are what, not allowed to want a different system?

 

I don't enjoy crafting that much myself, but I actually don't feel the need I have to do it very often. You can find many items early in the game that help you a lot. For example for my current Rogue Archer, I found a great bow pretty early on and I won't change it so soon.

 

Easiest way to keep the party alive is to have someone primarily (set it to "Preferred" in the Abilities menu) use Barrier and Horn of Valor with your party gaining guard when they deal damage (this one needs Trespasser though). It's simple to do and helps tremendously. This even works on Nightmare for me and I usually only play on Casual since I play DA for the story first and foremost.

[AlanC9]

That Horn of Valor upgrade is a bit OP, actually. Though since it's pretty far down the tree, it won't be available until the midgame

[PapaCharlie9]

That Horn of Valor upgrade is a bit OP, actually. Though since it's pretty far down the tree, it won't be available until the midgame

Well ... the first 5 points of every warrior build I do beelines to Hov/Fortifying Blast. But I excuse this by playing NM+Trials, where it's close to necessary.

I'm running XP level 19 now and I still need it in the party and various party members are still getting one-shotted, with full health, partial barrier and partial guard.

If I didn't beeline HoV, I'd have to waste time and crafting slots on FT mats that give guard on hit. So while I agree HoV/Fortifying is "too good", in a sense, it replaces another mechanic that is also too good, but more of a PITA. And best of all, unlike the FT mat, I can do a field downgrade if I want by disable/reassigning the ability. Though I guess that can also be done by carrying a second set of gear without the FT mat ... but wasteful!

[AlanC9]

I don't have a magic number of minutes when running back to camp becomes "too much." I would say at least an hour would be nice.
 
For lowering difficulty, I've played on casual before and still had to fast travel back to camp more than I thought was fun. Casual setting shouldn't be automatic win, but it should decrease the need for restocking considerably.

Having never tried Casual, I really shouldn't speculate about how easy it is to avoid damage.

Wouldn't an hour be pretty close to "forever" in practice? After an hour I've typically either reached a new camp, or exhausted my current direction of travel and need to return to base and start in a different direction anyway, or wanted to turn in some SQs for the XP and fast travelled back to do it, or I'm coming up on the loot limit.

I suppose my experience might not be typical, though -- I only had to return to base for healing maybe six times in my first game, IIRC. We could look at LP videos, but I have no idea if those represent a typical experience

 

I think I noticed it in the game because 95% of the game we're in a wilderness zone with respawning enemies. There is no Denerim market, no daytime Kirkwall, no Redcliffe village pre- and post-zombie apocalypse. There's VR, which after the first visit there's not really a reason to visit, and Haven/Skyhold. So the majority of the game has me walking through combat zones, because even if I've cleared a map, when I go back there are more enemies to fight (who don't give me experience any more).

Well, VR does have a couple of good shops. Though the really useful one sells schematics.

How does healing come up in the areas you've outlevelled? Surely you're not taking damage there?
 

In my experience, setting something to preferred didn't work very well. I didn't notice anyone actually using a preferred ability more often than just auto attacking or another ability.

Probably a problem with the preferred abilities needing too much stamina or mana to fire at the moment. This can be an issue when cheap abilities like Block and Slash or Whirlwind are available. Even if not preferred, if they're off cooldown they will fire before there's enough stamina to do another War Cry or Challenge. Then that's 10 more points gone which need to be built up again before the Threat-management abilities can be used.

[Iakus]

 

In my experience, setting something to preferred didn't work very well. I didn't notice anyone actually using a preferred ability more often than just auto attacking or another ability.

Tactics in DAI are a joke.  Which probably aggravates the whole limited healing issue.

[AlanC9]

If I didn't beeline HoV, I'd have to waste time and crafting slots on FT mats that give guard on hit. So while I agree HoV/Fortifying is "too good", in a sense, it replaces another mechanic that is also too good, but more of a PITA.

Especially the part about getting the mats. In my current run (NM, Rest Easy and Walk Softly, level 12), I'm about to hit Adamant and haven't seen one yet. Hell, I've only seen 5 FT anything.

So, yeah, I'm using HoV on Blackwall. I went a different way with Cassie, but as long as she holds aggro I'm OK.

[CorniliuS]

Why does your argument have to rely on claiming I'm not paying attention to the game? People can have different opinions even with the same level of knowledge of the game. Your opinion is not fact, it's opinion.

Because you wrote this.

Plus, how many of those materials are available in the first few zones, when healing is going to be the most necessary? We don't have early access to snoufleur skin, do we?

 

If you don't know the answer to this questions by now, then you wasn't paying attention or simply ignored huge part of the game.

 

I am someone who does not enjoy crafting. I think it's boring, time consuming, the UI was horribly designed, and I enjoyed games where looted equipment was unique and meaningful. Your opinion sounds to be that crafting is the method of dealing with the new health system, so those who don't like the new health system and don't want to be forced to craft items are what, not allowed to want a different system?

 

Since I would rather play the game as I want and not make a beeline for the EP to get snoufleur or mine paragon's luster until I get the necessary materials, your solution is not ideal. Plus, I don't craft enough to remember which items provide healing and which schematics are best to optimize the healing. I don't want to have to rely on crafting to deal with the limited healing mechanics.

Very interesting:) It's like someone who want to participate in pole vaulting competition approaches to judge and says “you know what guys I don’t like running and I also don't like jumping. I just want to move slowly and kinda step over the crossbar. The problem is, you guys put the damn thing to high lower the bar for everybody”. No! No and no! Stop lowering the bar it's very low as it is. You picked up wrong game for yourself if even on casual mode it still hard for you to play.

[vbibbi]

Because you wrote this.

If you don't know the answer to this questions by now, then you wasn't paying attention or simply ignored huge part of the game.

 

Very interesting:) It's like someone who want to participate in pole vaulting competition approaches to judge and says “you know what guys I don’t like running and I also don't like jumping. I just want to move slowly and kinda step over the crossbar. The problem is, you guys put the damn thing to high lower the bar for everybody”. No! No and no! Stop lowering the bar it's very low as it is. You picked up wrong game for yourself if even on casual mode it still hard for you to play.

Thanks for putting words into my mouth and keeping up the condescending attitude. That will get you really far.

 

I never said this game is too hard for me. I've beaten it on nightmare twice. I said that I would prefer the mechanics not have changed from how they were in previous games, as neither of them relied overly on crafting. As I've pointed out, I don't enjoy crafting, so my knowledge of where and when to obtain certain mats is not perfect, no, nor do I really care about that information.

 

This is a forum where consumers are allowed to voice their likes and dislikes of Bioware games. I am voicing my dislike of making the crafting system so important to gameplay, when there are other mechanics that could have been used to revamp the combat system if they wanted. My argument is not coming out of nowhere, since the previous games in this series did not have an identical crafting system and I'm complaining that I never liked crafting even though it's a foundation of DA. It's a change made in this game, and I would like future games not to implement crafting in its combat in the same way.

[CorniliuS]

Thanks for putting words into my mouth and keeping up the condescending attitude. That will get you really far.

O no! but i care so much about this.

 

I never said this game is too hard for me. I've beaten it on nightmare twice.

For lowering difficulty, I've played on casual before and still had to fast travel back to camp more than I thought was fun.

 

If you travel on casual even once to restock potions then it means it's to hard for you.

 

I said that I would prefer the mechanics not have changed from how they were in previous games, as neither of them relied overly on crafting

I don't know about DA2 because I didn’t played that abomination but DAO relied heavily on crafting.

 

This is a forum where consumers are allowed to voice their likes and dislikes of Bioware games.

Exactly. And I'm voicing my opinion – the healing and crafting system is fine.

 

As I've pointed out, I don't enjoy crafting, so my knowledge of where and when to obtain certain mats is not perfect, no, nor do I really care about that information. I am voicing my dislike of making the crafting system so important to gameplay, when there are other mechanics that could have been used to revamp the combat system if they wanted. My argument is not coming out of nowhere, since the previous games in this series did not have an identical crafting system and I'm complaining that I never liked crafting even though it's a foundation of DA. It's a change made in this game, and I would like future games not to implement crafting in its combat in the same way.

This is horrible! I stayed quite then… consumers like you complained about ''overcomplicated tactics in DAO''. I thought devs won't listen to those people and now tactics is completely gone. No more. No more dumb DA games.

[AlanC9]

This is getting embarrassing to read.

[vbibbi]

If you travel on casual even once to restock potions then it means it's to hard for you.

 As I said in the post you quoted, I said travel back to camp more than I thought was fun, not that I was forced to. If I'm running low on health potions, I'm going to run back to camp rather than continue on, even if I still have potions to use. Your gameplay style is not the only valid method.

 

I don't know about DA2 because I didn’t played that abomination but DAO relied heavily on crafting.

 

So you didn't play the game yet you can judge it an abomination. DAO didn't rely on crafting, the majority of powerful weapons were looted, only a few pieces of armor were crafted by Wade.

 

Exactly. And I'm voicing my opinion – the healing and crafting system is fine.

 

You're voicing your "opinion" that people who have different playstyles than you and different preferences in game content are not playing the game correctly or not paying attention.

 

This is horrible! I stayed quite then… consumers like you complained about ''overcomplicated tactics in DAO''. I thought devs won't listen to those people and now tactics is completely gone. No more. No more dumb DA games.

Why would you assume I complained about overcomplicated tactics?! I even said earlier in this thread that the broken tactics in DAI don't work. Of course I would rather have DAO or DA2's tactics back.

 

I'm done, you are being needlessly rude and acting as if anyone disagreeing with you is stupid. I'm sure you're going to respond with some other post insulting me, because that's such a strong argument in your favor.
 

[DragonSlayer63]

I forgot to mention in the original post that bringing back the ability to craft potions and power-ups while travelling could also lessen the amount of backtracking. Again, it is not the combat itself for me but rather the aftermath in which I have to spend at least a few minutes to get to camp and back to where I left off. That is what I find annoying.

 

As far as I recall you couldn't craft potions in DAO while in combat and you still had to collect the resources in order to craft them. Being able to craft more freely might make the system less of a pain, since you can make new potions as you gather the ingredients.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

If you travel on casual even once to restock potions then it means it's to hard for you.

Nope. Combat is attrition-based in DA:I, so it is designed to make you run out of health/potions eventually, because of the lack of regenerative healing. So even on casual, your party will take health damage that will never regenerate, and eventually you'll have to restock. Sure, at higher levels you can min-max Barrier and Guard etc, but not at first.

[vbibbi]

[...]

Got it, you're one of the recent wave of posters who have created accounts in order to attempt to be rude 15 year olds with homophobic subtext. Seriously, why are they all coming out of the woodwork now? If you have 154 posts and are two points away from a ban, you're either doing something very wrong or very right.

Modifié par BioWareMod06, 08 mars 2016 - 07:39 .
Edited to Remove Moderated Quote

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Are you sure you want to talk to me? Because I'm gonna say something and you're probably gonna get offended but I have only 2 points left before ban. (probably one after this post)

Be my guest, I hardly need you around.

[arkngt]

Since I would rather play the game as I want...

 

I'd say that you can't play any game as you want by definition as games rely on rules that you have to follow.

 

 

 

In my experience, setting something to preferred didn't work very well. I didn't notice anyone actually using a preferred ability more often than just auto attacking or another ability.

 

That's odd, or perhaps there are certain abilities that don't work as well as others when set as preferred. It has worked very well in all my play throughs - Vivienne using Barrier a lot when set as preferred and not if not, for example.