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[Gervaise]

According to the Timeline intelligent darkspawn, capable of advanced thought and speech, of whom Corypheus is said to be the greatest, were only discovered by the Wardens 12 years after the death of Dumat.   I must admit that I thought after DA2 that Corypheus had been involved in the 1st Blight, that was how the Wardens came to know about him and why they imprisoned him.   The 1st Blight lasted for 192 years, so it seems odd that these intelligent darkspawn weren't involved in some way.    However, Corypheus seemed unaware that Dumat was dead.   When Hawke revives him he is very disorientated but that does seem the case.   Then at the end of DAI he cries out to Dumat to help him; I know he is pretty desperate by this point but considering he says the throne of the gods is empty and must have been able to study the lore on the Blights, you'd think Dumat would be the last person he would depend on.

 

Still, it had me wondering, were the intelligent darkspawn slumbering during the Blight and only awakened when it ended?    Apparently the Wardens were already aware there was more than one.   They studied Cory for 10 years before they finally decided the best way to deal with him was to imprison him.   However, by this time they knew how to kill an arch demon, so did they attempt to kill Cory the same way and discovered it was not possible?

 

The other thing is that I assumed he only linked himself to his dragon after being awakened by Hawke.   However, he could already body hop into Wardens without killing his host, which is not the same as what the arch demon does.   I've previously thought it was possible because he already controlled their mind, so there would be no resistance but I now wonder if the different outcome was because he was already linked to his dragon back when he was first imprisoned and it simply went into hibernation to await his release.    The voices in the Well definitely said that the way to kill him was to kill his dragon first.    It would seem to be something that the spirits of the elven priests were familiar with, so the effective immortality was not due to the Blight but to the shared soul.      Any ideas?

[Taki17]

According to the wiki, Corypheus was captured after the blight. Though I'm not sure he's aware of the fact that he's a darkspawn, as later on he does not seem to follow the calling of the old gods. This is the same with the Architect, who is another ancient magister, so they are most likely immune to the the calling, but still spread the taint. If he is not connected to the old gods, he wouldn't know if Dumat or any other archdemon died.

 

So, if his mind is still his own (more or less, anyway) I'd imagine he an the others did not join the darkspawn they created, but tried to hid or blend in or lay low or whatever, pursuing their own agenda and willingly or unwillingly infecting hundreds upon hundreds of people.

[LightningPoodle]

The death of a God could very well have been the thing that awoken them. Sort of like a shock wave that echoes across the planet, but only the Darkspawn can hear it - which would explain how they know to go searching for another Old God after the current Archdemon dies.

[Toasted Llama]

It seems to me that Corypheus is the the type of 'person' to furiously deny that his god as died.

 

Aren't Gods considered immortal and isn't immortality part of what makes them 'divine', so to speak? So one could argue that if the god was truly killed, they may not be a god after all. Perhaps Corypheus - using this logic - wants to deny his death, as he would have to admit that Dumat wasn't a god either.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

He was awake before the First Blight began and awake after it ended, so he presumably was active during it. But by the Wardens time the Wardens first encountered him, he was already addled and confused. He would have been over two centuries old by then, so perhaps he was driven half mad by old age and corruption even by then.

[Statare]

There is little to no evidence to suggest if the Magisters were affected by the "hive mind" of the Archedemon Dumat, or any of the others. So. It is possible Cory and Crew were under the Surface for the duration of the First Blight, playing little to no role in the conflict above. So, the Dwarves would be the only ones to have noticed the Magisters shortly after their Darkspawnification, and it seems the Darkspawn spread so quickly the Dwarves probably did not see them or study them closely if they did. This means that after Dumat dies, the Wardens had formed, and they went into the Deep Roads, they encountered the Magisters.

 

Weird thing is didn't they trap Cory by luring him with the corpse of Dumat? Meaning he knew what it was, right?

 

It's unclear really when Cory awoke. Cory does not really say and the Wardens only say he was intelligent for a Darkspawn, which is not that much of an accomplishment or compliment. He seemed like he had no memory of the years he wandered the Deep Roads when you awake him in DA2. This could indicate he was in a trance until after he slumbered in the Fade for centuries.

 

The only entity to compare him with is the Architect, who says he awoke, and implies this was a recent occurrence, before the Ferelden Blight. Unfortunately, again, it is hard to comprehend what an immortal(?) being considers time, having lived underground detached from the sun for a very long time. But, it is still likely he awoke from some sort of state of confusion. Another thing is it has pretty much been confirmed that the Arhcitect was the Architect or Hight Priest of the God Urthemiel, the Archedemon of the latest Blight, and he corrupted Urthemiel according to what he says himself in DAOA. So, the attraction Cory felt for Dumat, to be captured by the Wardens, might indicate there is a connection between the Magister Priests of the Old Gods and the sleeping dragon things that start Blights.

 

About the Dragon, specifically the Red Lyrium Dragon, it is not that the Red Lyrium Dragon grants Cory his power, its that when Cory conducted some sort of ritual with a Dragon in some sort of hubris laden symbolic middle finger to the Old Gods whom he once served (his dragon is an Archedemon-Lite), by having his own PET dragon, this act provided a loop hole in his ability to body surf. When the fake Archedemon is killed, part of Corypheus' connection to the Blight is disrupted, and he can be killed (presumably only if killed relatively quickly after killing the Dragon). So, Cory made it possible to kill him through his own arrogance, which makes it a horrifying prospect that there are actually many more immortal Magisters left.

 

Edit:

Unfortunately Cory did not answer any questions at all that weren't answered in DA2 Legacy. In fact, he only raises more questions, because in DA2 he says one account of the Black City (that it was empty) and then in DAI says he heard dead whispers. Which raises more questions.

 

Sadly, the characterization of Corypheus was one of the most severely lacking aspects of DAI. So. Any definitive answers can't be given, but I am 90% certain that Corypheus made himself killable by doing whatever he did to the Dragon, which probably happened in between getting the Orb from an agent of Fen'Harel and the Haven, and not before Hawke released him. It is most likely Cory learned how to do what he did to the Dragon from the Orb, explaining why the Well knew how to kill him, because it recognized the ritual Cory had performed.

[vbibbi]

The darkspawn magisters should be like The Nameless One from Planescape: Torment. They are immortal, but each time they die and come back, they loose a part of themselves. For the Architect it was his memory, for Corypheus it was either his short term memory or his cognitive functions. Maybe the magisters were killed during the First Blight and when they came back, the Archdemon was already dead so they went back to the Deep Roads.

[Gervaise]

It was odd how his memory was so impaired back in DA2; he acted as though he remembered nothing after the Black City.    It makes me wonder where the Wardens found him and why they needed so long to study him before shutting him away.   He was adversely affecting their mages but seemed to have gained no insight into the world he was now inhabiting.   However, he did remember he was a Magister, unlike the Architect who seemed to remember nothing of what he once was.  It does make you wonder if there are five other similar creatures running around the Deep Roads suffering from amnesia, or may be only four if that story of the dwarf about seeing a group of them and one being eaten by the others is accurate.   Mind you, would being killed and eaten by other darkspawn Magisters stop you from regenerating in another body?   May be the Architect was the one who was eaten and that is why he lost his memory after transferring to another host.

[vbibbi]

It was odd how his memory was so impaired back in DA2; he acted as though he remembered nothing after the Black City.    It makes me wonder where the Wardens found him and why they needed so long to study him before shutting him away.   He was adversely affecting their mages but seemed to have gained no insight into the world he was now inhabiting.   However, he did remember he was a Magister, unlike the Architect who seemed to remember nothing of what he once was.  It does make you wonder if there are five other similar creatures running around the Deep Roads suffering from amnesia, or may be only four if that story of the dwarf about seeing a group of them and one being eaten by the others is accurate.   Mind you, would being killed and eaten by other darkspawn Magisters stop you from regenerating in another body?   May be the Architect was the one who was eaten and that is why he lost his memory after transferring to another host.

I figured, due to the short amount of time between Legacy and DAI, that he was disoriented from waking up from being in a coma for so many years, so his thoughts were still muddled. By the time he's in DAI he has had enough time to regain his identity and memories. Kind of like waking up from a dream and still thinking the dream is real for a few minutes before fully waking up and remembering where you are.

 

I wonder if part of his disillusionment with Dumat was actually because he saw the First Blight Archdemon who claimed to be Dumat, and not only was it not in a form he expected, but it could die. Maybe he was dreaming of the time before he learned that his dragon god was just as mortal as everyone else.

[ArcaneEsper]

I really wish Corypheus told us more. From what he does tell us, it seems the only thing he really remembers is the Black City and pretty much nothing after. I'd venture a guess and say that perhaps the Magisters have some kind of short term memory (after becoming darkspawn) but if that were the case Cory wouldn't remember the Black City and the Architect would probably not have gotten anywhere with his darkspawn freeing.

[Gervaise]

Actually the arch demons don't claim to be anything; but the people of Tevinter worshipped dragon gods and when a powerful dragon arises leading a horde of darkspawn,  and performing awe inspiring, deadly magic, you are going to assume that it must be a god.   Since their gods were no longer talking to their priests and helping them against this threat, I suppose the natural assumption had to be that one of their gods had risen against them.   After all they were not likely to think there were any other gods in the world but their own.   

 

Then I believe it was Andraste who categorically identified the archdemon as Dumat and filled people in on the cause of the darkspawn.    That would then make sense of Corypheus not recognising that Dumat is dead, because he never recognised the arch demon as being Dumat and he doesn't believe in a Maker, much less anything his prophet Andraste might say.   It would presumably also explain why the Wardens didn't realise exactly who Corypheus was (one of the Magisters who caused the Blight) because they hadn't yet heard that story at the time of the 1st Blight.   If he was rambling on about Golden and Black cities, they probably just thought he was talking about something he saw in the Fade, not that he actually physically went there.     I presume there must have been a point when mages viewing the Fade suddenly realised that the city was no longer Golden.

 

Or is there something in the call of the archdemon that identifies it, so the Wardens would know which dragon god they were facing?   Otherwise it is a puzzle how people know which old god has currently arisen.     

[Dai Grepher]

According to the Timeline intelligent darkspawn, capable of advanced thought and speech, of whom Corypheus is said to be the greatest, were only discovered by the Wardens 12 years after the death of Dumat.

I think you are assuming Corypheus was as aware back then as he was in Inquisition. That's not the case. He was a dim-witted derpspawn as he was in Legacy. Mumbling to himself about Dumat and the darkness and the Imperium, and blah blah blah.

It wasn't until he possessed Larius or Jeneka that he regained some of his senses. I think this is because possessing a Grey Warden gave him the Grey Warden resistance to the taint. He likely only discovered his body jump ability because he was about to die against Hawke. Before that battle, he could always prevent a Grey Warden from killing him. Against Hawke, he body jumped before the finishing blow.
 

I must admit that I thought after DA2 that Corypheus had been involved in the 1st Blight, that was how the Wardens came to know about him and why they imprisoned him.   The 1st Blight lasted for 192 years, so it seems odd that these intelligent darkspawn weren't involved in some way.

They were likely just digging mindlessly. Controlling their own packs of darkspawn probably.
 

However, Corypheus seemed unaware that Dumat was dead.   When Hawke revives him he is very disorientated but that does seem the case.   Then at the end of DAI he cries out to Dumat to help him; I know he is pretty desperate by this point but considering he says the throne of the gods is empty and must have been able to study the lore on the Blights, you'd think Dumat would be the last person he would depend on.

I think his call to Dumat toward the end was just habit for him. And like you wrote, he was desperate.
 

Still, it had me wondering, were the intelligent darkspawn slumbering during the Blight and only awakened when it ended?    Apparently the Wardens were already aware there was more than one.   They studied Cory for 10 years before they finally decided the best way to deal with him was to imprison him.   However, by this time they knew how to kill an arch demon, so did they attempt to kill Cory the same way and discovered it was not possible?

They likely tried to kill Corypheus themselves, but couldn't. And instead of seek outside help to kill him, they just sought outside help to seal him away. Maybe they assumed Corypheus was like Dumat, and that he would take over another tainted host. So maybe they didn't even bother trying to kill him. They figured that if a Warden couldn't do it then no one could.
 

The other thing is that I assumed he only linked himself to his dragon after being awakened by Hawke.   However, he could already body hop into Wardens without killing his host, which is not the same as what the arch demon does.   I've previously thought it was possible because he already controlled their mind, so there would be no resistance but I now wonder if the different outcome was because he was already linked to his dragon back when he was first imprisoned and it simply went into hibernation to await his release.    The voices in the Well definitely said that the way to kill him was to kill his dragon first.    It would seem to be something that the spirits of the elven priests were familiar with, so the effective immortality was not due to the Blight but to the shared soul.      Any ideas?

This was due to Corypheus sharing his power with the dragon. It's alluded to in conversation about it in the game. Cory always had the ability, at least since Legacy, but giving it to the dragon too made sense, because it would keep rising even when killed, just like an archdemon. Cory would too, so long as the dragon wasn't using the ability at the same time. That was the flaw, but it was one Cory thought no one would be able to exploit.

As for Cory's mind in Inquisition, I'd say he's still quite confused and twisted. He has some resistance, but not enough. Similar to the Architect. He was somewhat coherent, but by no means wise compared to humans. And the Architect probably regained his senses by drinking Grey Warden blood, but he was still confused as well.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Actually the arch demons don't claim to be anything; but the people of Tevinter worshipped dragon gods and when a powerful dragon arises leading a horde of darkspawn,  and performing awe inspiring, deadly magic, you are going to assume that it must be a god.   Since their gods were no longer talking to their priests and helping them against this threat, I suppose the natural assumption had to be that one of their gods had risen against them.   After all they were not likely to think there were any other gods in the world but their own.   

 

Then I believe it was Andraste who categorically identified the archdemon as Dumat and filled people in on the cause of the darkspawn.    That would then make sense of Corypheus not recognising that Dumat is dead, because he never recognised the arch demon as being Dumat and he doesn't believe in a Maker, much less anything his prophet Andraste might say.   It would presumably also explain why the Wardens didn't realise exactly who Corypheus was (one of the Magisters who caused the Blight) because they hadn't yet heard that story at the time of the 1st Blight.   If he was rambling on about Golden and Black cities, they probably just thought he was talking about something he saw in the Fade, not that he actually physically went there.     I presume there must have been a point when mages viewing the Fade suddenly realised that the city was no longer Golden.

 

Or is there something in the call of the archdemon that identifies it, so the Wardens would know which dragon god they were facing?   Otherwise it is a puzzle how people know which old god has currently arisen.     

 

There is a memory in the realm of the nightmare about a Tevinter priest killed by Dumat in the First Blight that shows they all (almost) instantly recognized him even back then.

[Lazarillo]

It wasn't until he possessed Larius or Jeneka that he regained some of his senses. I think this is because possessing a Grey Warden gave him the Grey Warden resistance to the taint. He likely only discovered his body jump ability because he was about to die against Hawke. Before that battle, he could always prevent a Grey Warden from killing him. Against Hawke, he body jumped before the finishing blow.

Except as Varric points out in DAI, it doesn't make much sense that the Wardens would try to imprison him, rather than killing him, unless there was some reason that they knew killing him wouldn't work, presumably by already trying. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but then we need a new reason why "eternal magic prison" was their first choice, instead of "kill the funny-looking Emissary".

[straykat]

From what I gather, Corypheus is the "Conductor" of Dumat.. the very one who initiated the original ritual, along with the Architect. It seems they both lost their memory after everything went downhill.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think one of the codex entries in Legacy mentions that Corypheus' control over the Warden's prevented them from killing him. Although that doesn't explain why Bethany, Carver and Anders were able to help Hawke strike him down.

[Dai Grepher]

Except as Varric points out in DAI, it doesn't make much sense that the Wardens would try to imprison him, rather than killing him, unless there was some reason that they knew killing him wouldn't work, presumably by already trying.

That would make sense, but not in conjunction with Corypheus being incoherent afterward. If he has body jumped already, or if he has been slain by a non-Warden and resurrected in a Grey Warden's body, then he should have regained some of his senses as he did in Legacy. Perhaps he was slain by a non-Warden and then resurrected in a nearby Darkspawn. Or perhaps the resurrection into a Grey Warden isn't the same as body jumping into one.

Of course it's also possible that the Wardens imprisoned him for some other reason. To study him maybe? Or maybe they assumed a Grey Warden was needed to truly slay him, as is the case with an archdemon. Since none could resist his will, the Wardens decided it wasn't possible and imprisoned him instead.
 

I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but then we need a new reason why "eternal magic prison" was their first choice, instead of "kill the funny-looking Emissary".

It's also possible that they couldn't kill him because he was too powerful for them. I think it was written somewhere that whenever a Warden had the chance to strike the killing blow, they just couldn't bring themselves to do it. So maybe imprisonment wasn't their first choice, but they saw it as their only choice.
 

I think one of the codex entries in Legacy mentions that Corypheus' control over the Warden's prevented them from killing him. Although that doesn't explain why Bethany, Carver and Anders were able to help Hawke strike him down.

Right, I remember that codex as well. As for Wardens accompanying Hawke, perhaps they were able to attack him, but not strike a killing blow. They never tried to strike a final blow against him though. Hawke is the one who deals the final blow. I think the same codex mentions that the Wardens could attack Cory, but not quite bring themselves to kill him.

[Apo]

Then I believe it was Andraste who categorically identified the archdemon as Dumat and filled people in on the cause of the darkspawn.    

 

Andraste was born at the end of the 1st Blight

There was even a theory stating that Andraste had the soul of Dumat through the dark ritual because the year the old god was slain, was also the year she was born.

[straykat]

Andraste was born at the end of the 1st Blight

There was even a theory stating that Andraste had the soul of Dumat through the dark ritual because the year the old god was slain, was also the year she was born.

 

That is an interesting theory, but it never quite made sense to me if she was known to be a singer and the "Maker" was enticed by her voice... and broke silence by speaking to her. Dumat is the God of Silence. Symbolically, everything about her seems to be the direct opposite. Voices, the Chant, etc..

[Dai Grepher]

Also, there's no way the Dark Ritual could have been created in response to the First Blight. The solution they came up with was the Joining, and they didn't even know if a Grey Warden could soul-cancel the Archdemon at the time. So the Dark Ritual's magic wouldn't have been based on a Grey Warden until after it became known that they could slay the Archdemon. And the Grey Warden who finally slayed the Archdemon died doing so, which is how the soul-cancel effect came to be known. The Grey Warden's body was buried at Weisshaupt.

[straykat]

Also, there's no way the Dark Ritual could have been created in response to the First Blight. The solution they came up with was the Joining, and they didn't even know if a Grey Warden could soul-cancel the Archdemon at the time. So the Dark Ritual's magic wouldn't have been based on a Grey Warden until after it became known that they could slay the Archdemon. And the Grey Warden who finally slayed the Archdemon died doing so, which is how the soul-cancel effect came to be known. The Grey Warden's body was buried at Weisshaupt.

 

Not to mention it took someone like Flemeth to try it. She must know something about the Blight and old gods personally to even want to attempt it, I'd think.

[Dai Grepher]

Well, now we know that it was Mythal's knowledge that allowed Flemeth to come up with the ritual. I had speculated that Flemeth was The Formless One, and thus had dealings with the old gods in ancient times. I guess I was sort of close.

It seems Fade spirits and those ancient spirits like the evanuris could see more regarding magical spells and how they worked. In HLtA in the Fade section there is a Dreamer who calls out for the solution on how to slay the Archdemon. This might suggest that whoever this was (probably a mage) called out to the spirits of the Fade for this knowledge and they gave it to him.

[In Exile]

Also, there's no way the Dark Ritual could have been created in response to the First Blight. The solution they came up with was the Joining, and they didn't even know if a Grey Warden could soul-cancel the Archdemon at the time. So the Dark Ritual's magic wouldn't have been based on a Grey Warden until after it became known that they could slay the Archdemon. And the Grey Warden who finally slayed the Archdemon died doing so, which is how the soul-cancel effect came to be known. The Grey Warden's body was buried at Weisshaupt.

We have no idea what the order of operations was on the founding of the GWs. We also have no idea whether this soul mechanism isn't just a bunch of hokey BS fed to more senior Wardens in the same way junior Wardens are fed hokey BS about the joining. This is an order actively based in lying and misleading their own ranks about their history and founding, and it starts with actively lying to their own recruits.

A GW killing the AD kills them - we know that from the US. We have no idea or proof about anything else, and evidence to the contrary on this theory of soul mixing in every DA game. Ignoring Corypheus, this is exactly what Flemeth did with Mythal and what every demon does to create an abomination. And we know for a fact that demons can do it to the unwilling. And we know from Anders that people who do it willingly get blendered somehow.

[Dai Grepher]

We have no idea what the order of operations was on the founding of the GWs.

I wrote nothing about the founding of the Grey Wardens. This is about when the Dark Ritual was first conceived. It could not have possibly been until after it was proven that a Grey Warden could be effective against an archdemon. This is because the Dark Ritual is based on a Grey Warden's seed.
 

We also have no idea whether this soul mechanism isn't just a bunch of hokey BS fed to more senior Wardens in the same way junior Wardens are fed hokey BS about the joining.

Maybe YOU have no idea. I know plenty of stuff about it.
 

This is an order actively based in lying and misleading their own ranks about their history and founding, and it starts with actively lying to their own recruits.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean they're wrong about the soul cancellation.
 

A GW killing the AD kills them - we know that from the US. We have no idea or proof about anything else, and evidence to the contrary on this theory of soul mixing in every DA game. Ignoring Corypheus, this is exactly what Flemeth did with Mythal and what every demon does to create an abomination. And we know for a fact that demons can do it to the unwilling. And we know from Anders that people who do it willingly get blendered somehow.

Completely different from tricking an archdemon soul into a Grey Warden via the taint by killing it.

The Grey Warden mages could have went into the Fade to try and seek out the soul of the prior UltSac Wardens and found nothing. It's also logic. If the archdemon soul can move from its corpse and into another darkspawn (empty and soulless), then it's only logical that clashing with a Warden who has a soul will cause it to be destroyed, and the fact the Warden doesn't survive shows that his or her soul was destroyed too.

[Gervaise]

I've been having a few thoughts about Corypheus' amnesia and it has to be connected to the Void.   In Last Flight it is stated that the Archdemon draws its power from a source other than the Fade.   Back in DAO it was said to be a spiritual attack; so it makes sense that drawing from the Void would make an anti-life attack of the spirit.   So there has to be some sort of connection between the darkspawn taint and the Void.   When Andruil went to the Void she forgot herself and suffered long and longer periods of madness.   So I think it is the effect of the Void magic involved in the darkspawn taint that sends the old god mad, so that it forgets itself and presumably that is also what made Cory and the Architect seem rather befuddled when they first awoke.    The Architect never remembered himself because he was always in his original form, whereas Cory had made numerous jumps and presumably got more lucid each time.   Of course this theory will be disproved if the Architect ever turns up again after the Warden killed him and still doesn't know who he is.

 

I'm still a bit puzzled as to why the Wardens studied him for so long but I can accept the theory that they were trying to come up with a way of killing him and this never seemed possible because of the control he had.   Mind you, if he had that much control over them, why didn't he simply get them to free him?

 

With regard to the identity of Dumat as the first archdemon; I think the codex in the Fade was just another example of the writers not really sticking to previous lore.   There seems no evidence of the old gods actually being visible on the surface before they rose as archdemons.    The ancient Neronemians had a belief that their heroes were reborn as dragons, who then assisted them in battle.   Then when their dreamers were spoken to from the Fade by the old gods, who promised them victory if they ditched any other gods (including the Maker) to follow them, they envisaged them as dragons too.   May be the old gods even filled their minds with the image of a dragon.    Even if the old gods were flying around at that time, by the time of the 1st Blight they had to have been imprisoned under the earth for a reasonable amount of time for the darkspawn to find them there.   So the writer of the memory in the Fade could not possibly have recognised Dumat in the flesh because he would have never seen him; at the most he would only have seen pictures in Temples and considering how tatty and twisted the archdemons are, I would have thought you would have been hard pressed to say "Oh look it's Dumat."    They might well assume it was one of the old gods but not necessarily know which one.    The same applies to subsequent archdemons who appeared long after people had ceased to worship them and even the Temples had been repurposed, so how did they know which one was which?    Which is why I wondered if the Grey Wardens were aware of it in their minds because it identified itself to them in some way.