44 réponses à ce sujet

[Hexxagone]

Instead of zones that have certain level enemies, every zone and enemy you fight should scale with your character. Always being a few levels ahead of you to keep the challenge up. That way we don't feel obligated to complete quests in a certain order, or plow through areas with ease because they are set to be level 12-15 and you are level 19 when you complete it.  

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't think everything should always scale, but I agree that DA:I was un-fun a lot of the time either because you were over-leveled or under-leveled, which is a shame. And if you're someone who actually likes to do the majority of the content, you'll be massively over-leveled for the main plot missions. They, at least, should scale.

[dgcatanisiri]

Like, in concept the idea of capping the leveling of enemies was solid, to allow repopulation in the zones so that they weren't completely empty while preventing using those encounters to grind... BUT given the way the fetch quests turned out, we were still grinding, running around doing these minor things to gain more experience, while ALSO dealing with severely underleveled enemies pestering us, with our party always getting pulled into combat while the player sits there all 'we are five plus levels above that thing, a random crafting loot drop is not worth this, DAMMIT STOP IT ALREADY THIS IS RIDICULOUS.'

 

You want to prevent grinding, stick with scaling enemies (within reason - for example, a band of highway robbers shouldn't be able to wipe out our party on our way to the main boss, or anything like that) and keep the zones smaller and don't repopulate them with enemies. I mean, Inquisition gave us non-predatory creatures and traveling refugees. THESE were enough to give a little life to the zones, not the constantly spawning monsters.

[AlanC9]

Like, in concept the idea of capping the leveling of enemies was solid, to allow repopulation in the zones so that they weren't completely empty while preventing using those encounters to grind... BUT given the way the fetch quests turned out, we were still grinding, running around doing these minor things to gain more experience, while ALSO dealing with severely underleveled enemies pestering us, with our party always getting pulled into combat while the player sits there all 'we are five plus levels above that thing, a random crafting loot drop is not worth this, DAMMIT STOP IT ALREADY THIS IS RIDICULOUS.'

Hmm... this has nothing much to do with my experience. I don't typically find myself in zones I've outleveled for very long, and when I do I usually can just ride around the RE.

To the extent there's a problem here, isn't it with excessive spawns rather than scaling? If a random black wolf fight is annoying, I'm not going to find it less annoying just because I'm now getting a tiny bit of XP for it.

Edit: I should note that I'm not a fan of kill XP in the first place, which might have something to do with why getting a few points of it wouldn't improve things for me.

[Dabrikishaw]

The past 2 Dragon Age games always had level scaling and Inquisition added it as a toggle, so this is a very odd thing to request like it was never there at all.

[Abyss108]

Nope, I disagree. I like being able to do zones earlier for more of a challenge and being able to steamroll things later in the game. Breaks emersion when the wolves are leveling up with me.

[AlanC9]

I think the toggle only came along with Trespasser.

[CoM Solaufein]

No, I hate scaling. No way a nug should be at the same level as me. This isn't a Bethesda game.

[UniformGreyColor]

Scaling doesn't make sense and is immersion breaking (for those who care about that).

 

Respawn is a touchy subject and its hard to make a game a implement non-respawn well in a game, far more difficult that making a game where enemies do respawn. The problem here is that people are going to complain that they can't get enough X to do Y. This causes the player to have to scour the area in search of that very last item that they are looking for and that is far to pain stakingly slow for the majority of players. That said, I like the simple convenience of being able to have unlimited resources granted I can afford them. But respawn also doesn't make sense and is immersion breaking as well.

 

As far as Kill experience goes, I am completely for it. It only makes sense that as I battle I gain combat experience. This is really where Skyrim shines I think because in that game you only get experience on what you do as opposed to a catch all system where everything you do amounts to the same experience pool.

[vbibbi]

I would like if both scaling and respawning (or at least respawn rates) were toggles. Or tied to difficulty, so the easiest difficulty has no scaling and no respawns, the hardest has scaling x2 and Hafter's Woods bear level respawns.

 

Or keep the Trials idea but upon release rather than as the final patch, and let us choose whether we want certain gameplay elements included.

[Dabrikishaw]

I think the toggle only came along with Trespasser.

That's what I said. 

[Alex Hawke]

Level scaling should be optional as it is in DA:I. Mostly because of immersion, not difficulty. But some story-related points "upgrading" enemies in low-level locations would be fun (for example, you fight bears at the beginning, then the darkspawn appear in the area because of the decision during some quest and the bears become bereskarns).

 

I would like if both scaling and respawning (or at least respawn rates) were toggles. Or tied to difficulty, so the easiest difficulty has no scaling and no respawns, the hardest has scaling x2 and Hafter's Woods bear level respawns.

 

Or keep the Trials idea but upon release rather than as the final patch, and let us choose whether we want certain gameplay elements included.

Agreed.

Modifié par Alex Hawke, 05 mars 2016 - 08:25 .

[Navasha]

Level-scaling done right is far better than no level scaling at all.   I was always overlevelled in DA:I.   After level 10-12, the rest of the game is a cake walk even on the hardest difficulty.    Yes, they added trials eventually, but most of my playthroughs were already completed by then.  

 

I think their no-scaling could have worked IF they had actually spread it out over the whole game.   I always ended the game at about lvl 25 before the DLCs, and there really was nothing higher than lvl 20.    Enemies should always scale to be a few levels higher than you are.

[The Baconer]

They've already done better than that, they made it a toggle. 

[AlanC9]

That's what I said.

Not exactly:

The past 2 Dragon Age games always had level scaling and Inquisition added it as a toggle, so this is a very odd thing to request like it was never there at all.

[Seraphim24]

Absolutely not.

[Dabrikishaw]

Not exactly:
 

I concede that I should have clarified on Trespasser adding level scaling to Inquisition, instead of implying that the base game had it from launch.

[KaiserShep]

No, I hate scaling. No way a nug should be at the same level as me. This isn't a Bethesda game.

Well, on the bright side, that level 25 nug would probably have low health points and you'll continually gain xp.

[Darvins]

Scaling has always been one of those... things in RPG's on the one hand to some extent it does help add to challenge on the other hand it starts to become silly, I think the best compromise I heard was scaling for key plot area's that is, the dungeon to advance the main plot might be scaled, the random area you go to for a bit of side quest fun, not scaled. So that the main big bad for example or their minions still feels tough but the random bandit you face, doesn't suddenly come with armour that if they sold would net them more money than most people see in a life time.

 

I don't want to be playing a character who's slain Dragons, for example, but finds a bandit in the middle of nowhere equally as tough as my toon.

[Realmzmaster]

Well, on the bright side, that level 25 nug would probably have low health points and you'll continually gain xp.

 

Actually the level 25 nug does not have low health points and if you are using certain trials (from Trespasser) can be promoted. So that level 25 nug becomes harder to kill.

[PhroXenGold]

They've already done better than that, they made it a toggle. 

 

Yeah, the current system is great. Let us chose whether or not we want it. Hopefully BW will have the sense to include this, as well as the other trials, in the base game next time round rather than waiting for a DLC.

[vbibbi]

Actually the level 25 nug does not have low health points and if you are using certain trials (from Trespasser) can be promoted. So that level 25 nug becomes harder to kill.

Which is well and good if the player wants constant combat challenges regardless of the opponent. But that is immersion breaking to me and becomes a bit ludicrous.

[Iakus]

Instead of zones that have certain level enemies, every zone and enemy you fight should scale with your character. Always being a few levels ahead of you to keep the challenge up. That way we don't feel obligated to complete quests in a certain order, or plow through areas with ease because they are set to be level 12-15 and you are level 19 when you complete it.  

DAI was, I believe the first game since Neverwinter Nights that didn't have level scaling

[AlanC9]

IIRC a lot of NWN is scaled too. Most of the enemies are spawned in via encounter triggers, which automatically scale unless the level designer deliberately locks down the level range of the trigger.

[Realmzmaster]

Which is well and good if the player wants constant combat challenges regardless of the opponent. But that is immersion breaking to me and becomes a bit ludicrous.

 

I agreed. I made the point you are talking about in a post some time ago. I talked about a game that had 40th level wolves and the alpha wolf was 45th level due to level scaling because the protagonist was at level 40.

 

The issue with no level scaling and each zone having a certain level range is that the protagonist can out level the area which can reduce the challenge for some gamers. Since my playstyle is to go to those higher level areas gain experience and level up quickly so that the end of the games is easier it does not bother me.

 

Level scaling can be immersion breaking when I see 40th level bats or falcons. I can see certain enemies scaling to your level but not all. Including level scaling in a trial or toggle is a good compromise.