IIRC a lot of NWN is scaled too. Most of the enemies are spawned in via encounter triggers, which automatically scale unless the level designer deliberately locks down the level range of the trigger.
I probably should have said BG2.
But I do know that KOTOR had complete level scaling.
I agree that it's silly to have level 40 wolves, so why can't we have some sort of intelligent level scaling?
Animals (wolves, nugs, rats, mudcrabs etc) should not scale, common bandits and monsters could have limited scaling, and bosses and other more evolved/interesting enemies would have unlimited scaling.
I agree with that the issue wasn't necessarily the level scaling, but rather the insane rate of respawning of enemies in the levels. This in addition to the really clumsy combat system combined with horrid companion AI and the non-regenerative health just made those latter encounters such a drag.
Even the respawning would be OK if battles against low-level creatures were shorter. You have to throw an awful lot of damage to, say, one-shot a level 10 black wolf.
I agree completely, that is what I meant with the clumsy combat system.
It's kind of weird actually. I remember that when discussing the non-regenerative health system, one of the game designers made a long post about how it improved the combat experience as now that they had a good assumption of the max health for the PC, they didn't need to just stockpile health to enemies as a way to make the battles more difficult. Yet I felt in DAI the battles felt to go on forever, especially towards the higher levels, as the enemies just never seemed to go out of health.
I agree that it's silly to have level 40 wolves, so why can't we have some sort of intelligent level scaling?
Animals (wolves, nugs, rats, mudcrabs etc) should not scale, common bandits and monsters could have limited scaling, and bosses and other more evolved/interesting enemies would have unlimited scaling.
I agree completely, that is what I meant with the clumsy combat system.
It's kind of weird actually. I remember that when discussing the non-regenerative health system, one of the game designers made a long post about how it improved the combat experience as now that they had a good assumption of the max health for the PC, they didn't need to just stockpile health to enemies as a way to make the battles more difficult. Yet I felt in DAI the battles felt to go on forever, especially towards the higher levels, as the enemies just never seemed to go out of health.
Hmm... this has nothing much to do with my experience. I don't typically find myself in zones I've outleveled for very long, and when I do I usually can just ride around the RE.
I find myself in zones for which i am underlevelled and my party gets killed within seconds. Escpecially at Rifts.
Really? I find enemies generally go down about as easy as they did in DAO. Probably easier, since characters aren't the unyielding engines of death we saw in DAO. Though probably not as fast pre third patch DA2 (before the nerf to certain CCCs).
Really? Also in the DLCs? As I just groaned out of impatiance with some of those fights.
I agree completely, that is what I meant with the clumsy combat system.
It's kind of weird actually. I remember that when discussing the non-regenerative health system, one of the game designers made a long post about how it improved the combat experience as now that they had a good assumption of the max health for the PC, they didn't need to just stockpile health to enemies as a way to make the battles more difficult. Yet I felt in DAI the battles felt to go on forever, especially towards the higher levels, as the enemies just never seemed to go out of health.
I had the opposite experience. At higher levels, none of the enemies could wait to die, even dragons. I made enemies explode left and right and they were all the same level as me. Some boss level enemies had lots of health to grind through, but the rank and files dropped like flies. My battles tended to be longest at the lower levels. Descent was really the only part of the game where high level enemies took me a while, particularly the ogres and the titan at the end.
I had the opposite experience. At higher levels, none of the enemies could wait to die, even dragons. I made enemies explode left and right and they were all the same level as me. Some boss level enemies had lots of health to grind through, but the rank and files dropped like flies. My battles tended to be longest at the lower levels. Descent was really the only part of the game where high level enemies took me a while, particularly the ogres and the titan at the end.
I was now thinking back on it and, although I really didn't have my encounters were nowhere near as fast as that, I do think that my memories are colored by two things. First, that by the DLCs, I utterly hated the DAI combat system, which made things feel like a drag. Second, playing as a rogue in DAI required me to be in constant control of the character, which with constantly respawning encounters just made me want everything to end.
I am still really surprised by dismissal of the dwarves in Descent as those things just kept taking hits.
Really? Also in the DLCs? As I just groaned out of impatiance with some of those fights.
Yeah. But the enemies I have a hard time with are really different from most people - I find mages super challenging (because of the real-time need for spacial awareness to dodge their AOE circles), and the toughest enemies in the game for me are those archers/assassins in JOH. I had an easier time against those lv. 30 or whatever Despair demons than the scripted JOH archer fight. Enemies with lots of health in DA:I are pretty vulnerable to an alpha strike, which I find makes them go down fast.
I was now thinking back on it and, although I really didn't have my encounters were nowhere near as fast as that, I do think that my memories are colored by two things. First, that by the DLCs, I utterly hated the DAI combat system, which made things feel like a drag. Second, playing as a rogue in DAI required me to be in constant control of the character, which with constantly respawning encounters just made me want everything to end.
I am still really surprised by dismissal of the dwarves in Descent as those things just kept taking hits.
Well, on the bright side, that level 25 nug would probably have low health points and you'll continually gain xp.
You slaughtered a Nug!
Reward: +1 XP and Bacon.
Constant control in a way you didn't have to in the previous games? Meaning too much WASDing instead of just clicking on an enemy and letting your PC walk to him? Yeah, if you don't like personal control, DW rogue is not the way to go. No tac cam, though?
Incidentally, I took a look at a couple of saves from my current run. Enemy HP and my PCs weapon damage seem to scale up pretty consistently, though of course the damage curve doesn't track levels very well since that depends on when I got the next tier of schematics or mats (I don't use the Nug). It looks to me like what finally breaks the game open is being able to get your character to a point where you can unleash high-powered abilities more or less constantly.
The DW rogue requires so much reactive control for optimal results that it really doesn't work with Tac-Cam. I used that mode a lot in my Mage playthrough and it did help things there, but still carrying Cole or IB with you there was basically handicapping yourself.
And it isn't just having to walk to the enemy, it is that you also have to constantly keep pressing the button for the attack, but also have to react to enemy movements as otherwise you are just attacking the empty air. At the same time the companion AI is so ridiculously bad that some of the companions are actively trying to kill themselves, but as playing the PC requires so much attention that there is no really efficient way to also manage the group at the same time.
Yeah. But the enemies I have a hard time with are really different from most people - I find mages super challenging (because of the real-time need for spacial awareness to dodge their AOE circles), and the toughest enemies in the game for me are those archers/assassins in JOH. I had an easier time against those lv. 30 or whatever Despair demons than the scripted JOH archer fight. Enemies with lots of health in DA:I are pretty vulnerable to an alpha strike, which I find makes them go down fast.
Interesting you say that, because that's why I never played a rogue in DA:O - I found that getting any value out of it meant baby-sitting in an annoying way (playing shuffle-shuffle to get into a "backstab" spot). I've never actually used a DW rogue in DA:I - NPC or PC - so I can't comment.
DAO rogues are actually insanely overpowered after initial clumsiness, especially since both DAO and DA2 had a problem in that dodge-tank becomes a lot more efficient towards the end of the game than the armor-tank. That balancing is something I think DAI actually got better, but the DW rogue attacks and abilities are so dependent on constant reactionary positioning that they became a drag for me to play.
As for enemies, yeah, different things for different people. For me the biggest problem with the mages area attacks was with the rogue playthrough as the companions would just blindly stand there taking the damage. And if I recall those archers/assassins correctly, yeah they were a headache.
Yeah. But the enemies I have a hard time with are really different from most people - I find mages super challenging (because of the real-time need for spacial awareness to dodge their AOE circles), and the toughest enemies in the game for me are those archers/assassins in JOH. I had an easier time against those lv. 30 or whatever Despair demons than the scripted JOH archer fight. Enemies with lots of health in DA:I are pretty vulnerable to an alpha strike, which I find makes them go down fast.
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