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May the Maker bless Solas


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#51
vertigomez

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Actually that is partially incorrect.
If an any inquisitor gains high approval with him, he outright admits that the Inquisition--and particularly you--showed him otherwise. That they are people.
But even if you have a negative approval with him, it is left ambiguous as to weather he still sees the world of modern elves as non-people. What is known for certain is that he saw the world as full of non-people prior to joining the Inquisition.
 
The real question lies in if that non-people sentiment held during the entirety of pre-Tresspasser Inquisition.
 
Inquisitor approval aside, he has already shown a predisposition of approving of those who help the poor and downtrodden regardless of race. Furthermore, in dialogue it is implied that he has a friendship with Cassandra and Blackwall (prior to Revelations)--or at least respect. Such acknowledgement is a sign that perhaps he does indeed see them as real people.
 
So as to weather he sees the current people of Thedas as non-people...it is dubious at best in addition to being highly circumstantial.


The point, I think, is that even if they're 'real' people, they don't (or can't) matter as much as the ancient elves.

Because reasons.

#52
KaiserShep

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@Kaisershep:) A mortal who pretend to be able to kill a god :D
While such god defeated the mighty Inquisitor and a Qunari commando without efforts.


Note that I didn't actually say anything about killing Solas, only the underlings, who will undoubtedly be very killable.

#53
LOLandStuff

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Let the world burn and everyone else with it cause they're not cool enough for one guy who's homesick. Makes sense.

 

Now why would anyone support Solas when not one plan of his went his way, everything backfired horribly. It boggles the mind.


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#54
Dai Grepher

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You may believe that his plans don't work out yet he not only managed to beat 7 elven gods but also tricked the Inquisition and infiltrated his agents there and gained all the Eluvians of the world.
The Inquisitor obviously would have failed even against one Evanuris.


He didn't beat them. He closed them off from the rest of the world. It isn't over until its over, and if BioWare is worth anything they will make the evanuris the new villains of the future games. Meaning, Solas' plan to deal with them will also backfire and it will be up to the player to fix another one of his messes.

He didn't trick the Inquisition. Both he and the Inquisition benefited mutually. Well, actually only the Inquisition benefited really. Solas didn't get his orb back.

Everyone infiltrated the Inquisition. Leliana's fault.

He only gained some eluvians because Flemeth opened it up for him. But the Qunari were able to take control of them eventually, and Solas again needed the Inquisition to help him.

That's an assumption. You don't know how powerful the evanuris are.

I look forward to killing a bunch of uppity elves serving some reckless ancient.


Yeah, the elven race is basically screwed from this point on in the series.

While such god defeated the mighty Inquisitor and a Qunari commando without efforts.


The Inquisitor defeated the Qunari because the Qunari attacked him.

They were not mortals in the conventional sense ,they were unable to die for aging and had a better mind than mortals,or you missed the ancient elves in the crossroads that living library of knowledge.


They didn't seem all that great. It took them years just to do simple stuff. Pretty lame if you ask me.

The point, I think, is that even if they're 'real' people, they don't (or can't) matter as much as the ancient elves.

Because reasons.


Solas' greatest fear is dying alone. He is doing all this for himself. He wants others of his kind with him because he's scared to be without them. No one else will work because he will always outlive them.

This is why Solas is pathetic and will end up losing in the next game.

#55
Jedi Master of Orion

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Given the two options that we can have at the end of Trespasser, it's not exactly impossible that Solas will eventually change his mind about the whole thing.


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#56
Dorrieb

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...i'm of the opinion that a finite life is without meaning and an infinite life is the only one who has a meaning...

 

 

Ignoring everything else, that is a very odd thing to say. Nothing can be valuable when you have an infinite supply of it. If you had an infinite number of days, then every day would be worthless. It is precisely the knowledge that your days are limited that makes each and every one precious, the need to make the most out of every moment, because soon they will be gone and you'll never get them back. What difference would today make to an immortal, or tomorrow, or next week, or a hundred years from now? It is the fleetingness of life that makes it meaningful. :)


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#57
DebatableBubble

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Solas-apologists are the creepiest thing. Like, real creepy.

And Anders-apologists. And certain pro-Mage fans. And certain elf fans. And maybe Cailan-bashers/Loghain fanatics.


......


This fandom sucks hard.
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#58
Donquijote and 59 others

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He didn't beat them. He closed them off from the rest of the world. It isn't over until its over, and if BioWare is worth anything they will make the evanuris the new villains of the future games. Meaning, Solas' plan to deal with them will also backfire and it will be up to the player to fix another one of his messes.

He didn't trick the Inquisition. Both he and the Inquisition benefited mutually. Well, actually only the Inquisition benefited really. Solas didn't get his orb back.


He only gained some eluvians because Flemeth opened it up for him. But the Qunari were able to take control of them eventually, and Solas again needed the Inquisition to help him.

That's an assumption. You don't know how powerful the evanuris are.


Yeah, the elven race is basically screwed from this point on in the series.







This is why Solas is pathetic and will end up losing in the next game.

-He beated them,the way in which he did that is irrelevant it is just a matter of technicalities here ,i consider that as a victory for the dread wolf who managed to lock them all for thousands of years yet the ancient elves  were unable to live in comfort without the fade.

 

-He did not create the Inquisition he merely offered the castle. the Inquisition was founded by the right and left hand of the Divine.

Solas was weak and very much killable during the events of DAI so he was clever enough to use the organization as a means of defense for himself,that he did not recovered the Orb is not what it matters,since his life as elven god is far more important than one of his artifacts.
 
-The eluvians were in the hands of Briala then passed to Solas,Flemeth is irrelevant here.
 
 
 
-I know from codex and the library of virrdathara of what they were capable of.
-Elgarnan used Titants to build his own statues
-Ghilanain created new animals species like the Cetus tremendous marine monsters and many others ,her knowledge was great
-Mythal was able to kill TItans
-Andruil was able to enter into the abyss
-Solas is able to petrify at wish and possess great knowledge
-Falondin rules over the deaths
ecc...
 
 
-Keep believing it against mere mortals,he fear them so much that he openly reveal who he is and even saved the Inquisitor.
The world is akin to change that's inevitable
 

 

Ignoring everything else, that is a very odd thing to say. Nothing can be valuable when you have an infinite supply of it. If you had an infinite number of days, then every day would be worthless. It is precisely the knowledge that your days are limited that makes each and every one precious, the need to make the most out of every moment, because soon they will be gone and you'll never get them back. What difference would today make to an immortal, or tomorrow, or next week, or a hundred years from now? It is the fleetingness of life that makes it meaningful. 

What's good is supposed to be in knowing that days are limited?
Eternal youth is a gift more than desirable as every aspects of a being can be better developed by it,thousands of years to study or thousands of years to train ecc
Beings who possess such gift are inherently superior and when they are tired or stressed in DA they go to sleep to wake up after centuries and always be testimony of the change of the world,eventually they will die as well but only at the end of the world or if they are killed.


#59
German Soldier

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Immortality is abominable - and to discover this, you need look no further than the BSN.

 

Human minds calcify.  You will be nothing more than your first memories for all eternity.  Nothing will ever be better than your memory of Dragon Age: Origins... or your favorite band... or show... or love. 

 

 

Death of the individual serves the great good of life itself.  I hope I can usher Solas forward through death. 

 

That you had a moment, however brief, is the meaning... and it is far more profound than some unchanging relic.

Death serve nothing more but to help the process of biological evolution but from a philosophical standpoint it serves nothing. 
Mortals beings keep repeating the same things over and over again no matter at how many times they die and beget other life
Death it is not in itself something to see as necessary for life,since there are very much creature of the world who "trick" death and regenerate and are  fine even if they didn't asked for your permission.
 

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#60
kimgoold

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I would support the Elvhen getting all they lost back (magic, life span etc) if everything and everyone else doesn't have to die. But Solas is Bonkers and every plan he has or has ever had has been flawed; If we get to see the Evanuris kick the #### out of Solas I'll be very pleased but then everyone is in danger from some Very angry ancient elves. So as much as I'd like to see Solas get his ass handed to him next game my protagonist will have to stop him.



#61
sniper_arrow

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The world is akin to change that's inevitable

 
What's good is supposed to be in knowing that days are limited?
Eternal youth is a gift more than desirable as every aspects of a being can be better developed by it,thousands of years to study or thousands of years to train ecc
Beings who possess such gift are inherently superior and when they are tired or stressed in DA they go to sleep to wake up after centuries and always be testimony of the change of the world,eventually they will die as well but only at the end of the world or if they are killed.

 

Whether that change will benefit Solas or not will be the question. 

 

Also, even if knowing your days are limited, it's best well spent with your loved ones and doing the things you like. 



#62
straykat

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May the Maker bless Solas and Bioware give an option to support him in his genocide quest. :lol:
I genuinely believe that his cause is a good one, as i'm of the opinion that a finite life is without meaning and an infinite life is the only one who has a meaning.
So give us the option to help him also let me play as an ancient elf so that i don't die when he tear down the veil like those shemlen 
which from what i grasped will happen because Sandal said so

 

 

His cause is basically to destroy the setting as we know it.

 

Which means no more games. As we know them at least.

 

Which is self-defeating, don't you think? For both EA and DA fans. What's the point of playing Dragon Age if you don't want Dragon Age in the first place? :P


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#63
sniper_arrow

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His cause is basically to destroy the setting as we know it.

 

Which means no more games. As we know them at least.

 

Which is self-defeating, don't you think? For both EA and DA fans. What's the point of playing Dragon Age if you don't want Dragon Age in the first place? :P

 

Shhh, he's currently dreaming about Solas. Don't dissuade him from his deluded mind. 

 

On the second thought, go ahead...



#64
Donquijote and 59 others

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His cause is basically to destroy the setting as we know it.

 

Which means no more games. As we know them at least.

 

 

They just need to change the cover of the game

Spoiler

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#65
vertigomez

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His cause is basically to destroy the setting as we know it.
 
Which means no more games. As we know them at least.
 
Which is self-defeating, don't you think? For both EA and DA fans. What's the point of playing Dragon Age if you don't want Dragon Age in the first place? :P


They just need to change the cover of the game

Spoiler


PLEASE GOD NOT AGAIN
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#66
straykat

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I was almost gonna use DnD as a franchise that has existed for 30 years without caving in on itself... but it's had it's moments. Warhammer fantasy destroyed itself recently though... which I think will be regretted.



#67
KaiserShep

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I would support the Elvhen getting all they lost back (magic, life span etc) if everything and everyone else doesn't have to die. But Solas is Bonkers and every plan he has or has ever had has been flawed; If we get to see the Evanuris kick the #### out of Solas I'll be very pleased but then everyone is in danger from some Very angry ancient elves. So as much as I'd like to see Solas get his ass handed to him next game my protagonist will have to stop him.

 

 

From what I understand of the ancient elves, I'd never support them reclaiming their lost magic either. They sound worse than the Tevinter magisters. 


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#68
Medhia_Nox

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@German Soldier:  Firstly, from a purely scientific viewpoint it is impossible to know if anything is immortal.  You would either have to 1) live forever or 2) at least have a machine that runs indefinitely without ever breaking or ceasing to measure the lifespan of the creature.   

 

And then, of course... you can never reach immortal (which is, infinity) - because once the universe ends, so too would immortality.  But, what limited perception of "immortality" means is "a really long time".

 

It's funny, you say death "only serves biological evolution" and yet you wouldn't be here without evolution... you would be, at best, a microscopic organism.  So, if you value your individual life, at all, you value the death of everything that came before you. 

 

And lastly, why would immortality have any more or less value?  Because you decided it did?  You're just one of a multitude of upjumped apes having no relevancy to the scope of something so vast as the universe.  The "value" you're speaking of is unknowable by any individual man.  

 

Better to concern yourself with personal value.  To you, it seems you may fear death, or at the very least be embittered by the idea of it.  I cannot stop you from desiring immortality, it's endemic to the species to search for it in everything from Taoist alchemy, death/rebirth cycles, heavenly kingdoms and transhumanism.  

 

But when the self vanishes you realize you are a congealed, sapient piece of the universe which is a part, itself, of whatever reality itself is composed of.  Even when the universe dies, what it is, will become part of what is next - as will you.  

 

But you're speaking on the banal immortality of the flesh when it comes to Solas - that has no intrinsic merit.  


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#69
straykat

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@German Soldier:  Firstly, from a purely scientific viewpoint it is impossible to know if anything is immortal.  You would either have to 1) live forever or 2) at least have a machine that runs indefinitely without ever breaking or ceasing to measure the lifespan of the creature.   

 

And then, of course... you can never reach immortal (which is, infinity) - because once the universe ends, so too would immortality.  But, what limited perception of "immortality" means is "a really long time".

 

It's funny, you say death "only serves biological evolution" and yet you wouldn't be here without evolution... you would be, at best, a microscopic organism.  So, if you value your individual life, at all, you value the death of everything that came before you. 

 

And lastly, why would immortality have any more or less value?  Because you decided it did?  You're just one of a multitude of upjumped apes having no relevancy to the scope of something so vast as the universe.  The "value" you're speaking of is unknowable by any individual man.  

 

Better to concern yourself with personal value.  To you, it seems you may fear death, or at the very least be embittered by the idea of it.  I cannot stop you from desiring immortality, it's endemic to the species to search for it in everything from Taoist alchemy, death/rebirth cycles, heavenly kingdoms and transhumanism.  

 

But when the self vanishes you realize you are a congealed, sapient piece of the universe which is a part, itself, of whatever reality itself is composed of.  Even when the universe dies, what it is, will become part of what is next - as will you.  

 

But you're speaking on the banal immortality of the flesh when it comes to Solas - that has no intrinsic merit.  

 

Strangely, Flemeth represents this unknowing attitude the best.. and yet she's immortal too apparently. But otherwise, I'm fond of her for her emphasis on living in the present, embracing chance and random opportunity, and just jokingly going one's way through life.



#70
Medhia_Nox

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@straykat:  Flemeth still exhibits problems and I would argue she is more "obtuse" than unknowable.

 

The being that is Flemythal is still caught in the trappings of both Flemeth and Mythal and cannot seem to escape them regardless of any perceived knowledge or wisdom. 

 

Better that she be gone from the world so as not to infect it with her corrupted, calcified state - and, I think there's the "slightest" possibility she knows this and is actually looking to end both her AND Solas in one cleverly planned swoop (though, I'm wagering on Bioware telling a more familiar power fantasy tale).

 

The Darkspawn are a living example of this corruption.  It is the hubris of these "immortals" that is said to have caused the Darkspawn... whether from the Magisters or from Mythal killing a Titan... the Darkspawn represent a kind of backlog of corruption in Thedas distorting the "natural" order.

 

 In fact - turning the Darkspawn into nature's way of dealing with magical beings and their immortality - would absolutely make sense to me.  A kind of natural chemo to wipe out the cancer cells (immortals).  


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#71
straykat

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@straykat:  Flemeth still exhibits problems and I would argue she is more "obtuse" than unknowable.

 

The being that is Flemythal is still caught in the trappings of both Flemeth and Mythal and cannot seem to escape them regardless of any perceived knowledge or wisdom. 

 

Better that she be gone from the world so as not to infect it with her corrupted, calcified state - and, I think there's the "slightest" possibility she knows this and is actually looking to end both her AND Solas in one cleverly planned swoop (though, I'm wagering on Bioware telling a more familiar power fantasy tale).

 

The Darkspawn are a living example of this corruption.  It is the hubris of these "immortals" that is said to have caused the Darkspawn... whether from the Magisters or from Mythal killing a Titan... the Darkspawn represent a kind of backlog of corruption in Thedas distorting the "natural" order.  

 

You might be right about her. I don't know. But I still like the general mindset. It's how I prefer to be, as a person. To live in the present and be content with not having all the answers.

 

It's probably not quite the same as Flemeth though. It's just about not being anxious and enjoying the simple things. I'd go mad otherwise.

 

Within the games themselves, I think Hawke has to best opportunity to be played this way, which might be why I'm so fond of them. Arishok and Petrice and Meredith and Anders all go on about "eternity" and being so certain of their views.. Hawke, especially Sarcastic, is quite the opposite.



#72
Medhia_Nox

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@Straykat:  While I don't like Hawke - it is purely from a gaming perspective (mostly, how the story was designed).

 

Agreed on living for "now" - though I struggle endlessly with it.  I find that I cannot even properly function in modern society I find it so transient and ultimately a silly lesson in futility (debt slavery is abominable to me) - but my own shortcomings aside - gaming immortals are often so poorly written. 

 

Let us take Gandalf for example.  He does - in fact - live only for "now".  His wisdom reaches well beyond the scope of Frodo and Aragorn and yet I believe him to be squarely concerned with what is happening "now" on Middle Earth.  

 

Merlin would be the same.  Certainly his thoughts are more vast than the pipe-dream of Camelot - and yet he is squarely devoted to the brief hope of Utopia.  He knows it will end.  The ending is not the point.  That is "was" is all that would matter I think to Merlin.  

 

These wizards manipulate others... for the sake of others.  Their role is entirely secondary in nature.  

 

Solas... manipulates others for the sake of himself.  Because of this, he is entirely trapped in 'self' - which cannot escape the past.   He has far more akin to Sauron than he does any true "wizard".  As a villain - he is well constructed and consistent.  


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#73
straykat

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@Straykat:  While I don't like Hawke - it is purely from a gaming perspective (mostly, how the story was designed).

 

Agreed on living for "now" - though I struggle endlessly with it.  I find that I cannot even properly function in modern society I find it so transient and ultimately a silly lesson in futility (debt slavery is abominable to me) - but my own shortcomings aside - gaming immortals are often so poorly written. 

 

See, I don't even use credit. No debt.. But also sets me back in other ways.

 

But it goes to show how much I value the present :P


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#74
Dai Grepher

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Ignoring everything else, that is a very odd thing to say. Nothing can be valuable when you have an infinite supply of it. If you had an infinite number of days, then every day would be worthless. It is precisely the knowledge that your days are limited that makes each and every one precious, the need to make the most out of every moment, because soon they will be gone and you'll never get them back. What difference would today make to an immortal, or tomorrow, or next week, or a hundred years from now? It is the fleetingness of life that makes it meaningful. :)

 

While that's certainly the case in economics, with most goods and services, the philosophical is a different matter entirely. Each new day will have new things, and extends life, which makes each new day valuable. Having no more days marks the end of life and every memory of days prior. Effectively erasing them for the one who perceived them. I think the main concept of this discussion is oblivion. It reduces life to a zero sum game. Pointless. You are arguing from the standpoint of being alive. Oblivion takes away all value. So yes, eternal life is what gives these fleeting days any value at all.

 

-He beated them,the way in which he did that is irrelevant it is just a matter of technicalities here ,i consider that as a victory for the dread wolf who managed to lock them all for thousands of years yet the ancient elves  were unable to live in comfort without the fade.

 

-He did not create the Inquisition he merely offered the castle. the Inquisition was founded by the right and left hand of the Divine.

Solas was weak and very much killable during the events of DAI so he was clever enough to use the organization as a means of defense for himself,that he did not recovered the Orb is not what it matters,since his life as elven god is far more important than one of his artifacts.
 
-The eluvians were in the hands of Briala then passed to Solas,Flemeth is irrelevant here.
 
-I know from codex and the library of virrdathara of what they were capable of.
-Elgarnan used Titants to build his own statues
-Ghilanain created new animals species like the Cetus tremendous marine monsters and many others ,her knowledge was great
-Mythal was able to kill TItans
-Andruil was able to enter into the abyss
-Solas is able to petrify at wish and possess great knowledge
-Falondin rules over the deaths
ecc...
 
-Keep believing it against mere mortals,he fear them so much that he openly reveal who he is and even saved the Inquisitor.
The world is akin to change that's inevitable
 
What's good is supposed to be in knowing that days are limited?
Eternal youth is a gift more than desirable as every aspects of a being can be better developed by it,thousands of years to study or thousands of years to train ecc
Beings who possess such gift are inherently superior and when they are tired or stressed in DA they go to sleep to wake up after centuries and always be testimony of the change of the world,eventually they will die as well but only at the end of the world or if they are killed.

 

Cole describes it as the wolf chews its own leg off to escape the trap. Not exactly a victory. And for all we know the evanuris are safe and sound wherever they are, patiently waiting for the Veil to drop, and when it does they will emerge just as powerful as ever. You like to post about immortal beings? Well, what Solas did is nothing more to the evanuris than the casting of Ice Wall in a narrow corridor. When it runs out... look out, because here they come.

 

He simply didn't get caught, and that's mainly because there was no evidence of his involvement in the events of the conclave. Not the same as him tricking the Inquisition though. You can go through the whole game being suspicious of Solas and not believing anything he says, but there is no evidence for you to act against him.

 

According to Solas, his agent failed to get the passphrase from Briala, and so he had to "override the magic personally", which was actually Flemeth's doing, and she willingly gave this to Solas. Then after Solas had it, the Viddasala found a way to activate the eluvians and moved her agents in to take the various elvhen locations. Solas needed the Inquisition to get rid of them all.

 

You have legends. There is no proof that they are correct. All those things could have happened in the Fade, meaning, imagination. I don't remember anything about Elgar'nan using titans to build anything. There is a codex stating that many of his servants cut away at a mountain for 1,000 days or something like that to make a statue in his honor, but that's it.

 

Ghilin'nan may have created creatures, but it's likely this power came from the Fade and used spiritual energy. It's also possible that these creatures only existed in the Fade, thus reducing them to mere imaginings.

 

Mythal slayed one titan that we know of, which shouldn't be that difficult. The Inquisitor can destroy one of the titan's guardians, and theoretically if he had just kept on doing this at various points inside the titan, then he could have slayed a titan as well even without the benefits of Fade energy to enhance his powers as Mythal would have had.

 

Andruil needed to craft armor that would allow her to go there, and even after that she still went mad trying. Mythal had to put her back in line.

 

Solas can petrify non-mage Qunari at will. We don't know if his ability works on other races or on other mages. So what if he has great knowledge? He hasn't made good use of it so far.

 

Falon'Din is said to be able to walk in the Fade physically. We don't know what significance that has yet.


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#75
straykat

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Can I just derail again and say I'm more interested in what elves have tried to do in building a future, rather than the ones who keep reverting to their Past? The Ameridans, the various City Elves and rebellions over the centuries, etc.. I'd rather hear about them. Perhaps Shartan as well if he actually is a real person.... and wasn't Solas (still not sure).

 

As much as I like the Dalish, I hate the idea of a people only finding their identity in the recovery of a lost culture. How worthless do you have to feel to think your life means nothing except for something that occurred eons ago? All of this leaves a bad taste in my mouth, if all that matters to a person is some far removed past.

 

Additionally, I think Solas can be stopped if you simply improved the lives of elves in the here and now. You don't need magic to do it. And then afterwards, we can just move on and hear more stories in the setting. Rather than see it destroy itself like this. As far as I'm concerned, it's barely started.

 

Is it too much to ask if Luke Kristjanson becomes the lead writer instead? Maybe then I'll just get a funny story about guard captains or Red Jenny. Or slatterns.


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