129 réponses à ce sujet

[Andrew Lucas]

Brainless Lavellans coming in.

[Xerrai]

Shem apologists? What the hell are those?

If I had to take a guess....

A person who, despite things like: Chantry censure, blatantly biased policies against elves/qunari, a culture that tends to oppress non-humans, and a willingness to culturally erase the feats and knowledge of other races/religions, still claim humans are in the right. That the other races "deserve" to be where they are.

 

Again, just a guess.

[Witch Cocktor]

If I had to take a guess....

A person who, despite things like: Chantry censure, blatantly biased policies against elves/qunari, a culture that tends to oppress non-humans, and a willingness to culturally erase the feats and knowledge of other races/religions, still claim humans are in the right. That the other races "deserve" to be where they are.

 

Again, just a guess.

 

Ah, why not try to better the world when you can just destroy it and all the people who tried making things better and all the people who were oppressed by humans. Because they'll be happier when dead *uguu*

 

Sure, I'm a shem apologist if I have to choose a side!

[Dai Grepher]

You may not think so, but you are making nihilistic arguments. It's like saying, 'I'm notsh drunksh, ossiffer!'

No, I'm drawing a logical conclusion based on one possible outcome. You are ignoring that logic. If death results in oblivion then the life you lived means nothing to you, because you won't remember a single bit of it when you go to oblivion. It will be as if it never happened in the first place, from your perspective. This is why eternal life is necessary to make life mean anything to you.

It would be like me handing you an erased DVD. You would play it and see nothing but blackness. You'd ask what this meant, and I would say that there was a collection of videos from various events in a person's life. Birthdays, proms, picnics, wedding, honeymoon, vacations, newborn babies, their birthdays, family reunions, etc, but I erased them all. So what would be the point of you watching a blank disc?

This question makes several nihilistic assumptions. You assume that your psyche is a phenomenon separate from the universe in which it exists, you assume that time has no permanence, i.e., that events in time only exist as you perceive them and cease to exist when you cease to perceive them, except as memories, and you assume the demonstrable falsehood that time is absolute.

I only exist through my mind and what I perceive, so of course I will conclude that my consciousness is separate from the "universe" which is just energy and matter. Time has some permanence, but a human life does not, and that is what we are discussing.

I didn't write that time exists only as I perceive it. Of course time existed before me and will continue to exist after me, the point is that none of it matters to those who go into oblivion, because once you go into oblivion, there is no more you.

No more than a fish can appreciate the water.

That's incorrect. Being able to exist forever doesn't mean you can't appreciate something that is visually or audibly pleasing. In fact, I would argue that those who believe they will exist for eternity appreciate this world much more than those who believe that they will lose themselves when they die.

Imagine a novel, or a play. It has a beginning, a middle, it reaches a climax, and then it ends. Does the book cease to exist? Is the climax meaningless because you read past it? No, it's all still there.

That's because you're alive to remember it.

In fact, it's the ending that gives the book its meaning. A book that never ends would just be page after page of stuff happening event after event, without any rhyme or reason, never getting to the point because it could never say, 'This is it. This is what it was all about.' It must go on and on, and what would there be left to say after that?

Well, it's the ending that gives the story its conclusion. Meaning is found in the story's plot.

Your analogy is off. A book can have a conclusion because the book still exists. The reader can go back and read it again. The reader can remember it. So these are two separate things. If we were to say that a book is like a person's life, and the person goes to oblivion, then it's like throwing the book into a bonfire. It is completely destroyed. No beginning, no middle, no climax, no end. That is what oblivion is to a person's soul.

What length is a moment?

Anywhere between a second and a few minutes depending on the user's meaning.

A lifetime can be over in the blink of an eye, and a perfect moment can be eternal.

No it can't. And besides, you're talking about the perception of time. That isn't the same as consciousness.

For the mortal, it's a choice. For the immortal there is no choice, time itself is meaningless. What does it matter how much sand flows or doesn't flow through the hourglass, when there is an infinite amount of sand?

What matters is that the sand keeps flowing. If there's an infinite amount of sand, then it means you get to watch sand flow forever. You're failing to recognize that when the sand runs out, there is no more hourglass and there is no more memory of the hourglass. There is no more you.

If you have to ask...

You don't actually know, do you?

There is no oblivion. The novel reaches its end, but the pages are still there. When a train leaves the station, the station doesn't cease to exist, it's still there. You are not a tourist in time and space, you are a native.

And from this it's clear to me that you don't understand the concept of oblivion. It means that your consciousness ceases to exist. You have no awareness, no senses, no memory, no thought. You're here one second and in the next you're just gone. You won't even know that you ever existed at all.

So oblivion makes life meaningless. Eternal life is the only thing that makes this life have any meaning, because eternal life is what allows you to remember that life.

As applied to Dragon Age, Andrastians actually believe in both eternal life and oblivion. Those who are faithful in the way of the Maker will be able to reach him after they die and go to the Fade. There they will continue to exist for all eternity with their fellows and with their Maker. Those souls who are not faithful will wander in the Fade for some unknown amount of time before they eventually break down and become energy, losing all awareness, consciousness, and memory. So Andrastians favor the path that leads to eternal existence. I think this might also be why Sera favors the Chant of Light, because her biggest fear is "The Nothing".

[Dorrieb]

Transcendent Joy?  Can I live in your delusional little world for a while?  Only the utter obliteration of the entirety of conciousness would bring me Transcendent Joy.  Who cares if there's a tomorrow.  A sunset is a sunset is a sunset, just like so many that preceded it.

 

How sad.

[Master Warder Z_]

No.

 

Pretty much.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Dai Grepher:  You have a very egocentric viewpoint of the whole immortal thing. 

 

The universe doesn't have meaning... because you are in it... it either does, or does not, have meaning regardless of whether you are in it.  

 

A self-actualized person realizes that the tree does make a sound when it falls even if you're not there to hear it. 

It's not really so surprising when you consider in that he posted a large opinion with the quote that is was irrefutable fact in the "templars are factually better" thread. 

 

 

Seriously, how delusional do you have to be to act like an opinion is genuine fact?

 

I bet TKS and Dai Grepher are related. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I bet TKS and Dai Grepher are related. 

 

That's the kettle calling the pot black right there.

[Steelcan]

The time of the elves is over, the time has come for the dominion of men

[thesuperdarkone2]

That's the kettle calling the pot black right there.

You obviously haven't seen their posts

[Master Warder Z_]

The time of the elves is over, the time has come for the dominion of men

 

[Xerrai]

Ah, why not try to better the world when you can just destroy it and all the people who tried making things better and all the people who were oppressed by humans. Because they'll be happier when dead *uguu*

 

Sure, I'm a shem apologist if I have to choose a side!

Or you can be neither.

Admit that both elves and men alike have flaws. That elves are not inherently better then men and vice versa. That just like in ancient times, every man and elf has and continues to have, mortal flaws.

 

The OP, and people who share his sentiments, are but a selective group of extremists that think ancient elves were infallible (divine basically). But there are several opinions that don't align with them, and do not align themselves as being "anti-elf" or "anti-human" either.

[Dai Grepher]

Not really they didn't built the continent ,they merely created their own society filled with ignorant mortals ,as soon as the Evanuris will return they will put shemlen to their place.

What makes you think they are ignorant? They know a lot more about magic than the elves, and in some cases know more than Solas.

Yet the evanuris can't even get through the Veil. Humans have gotten through the Veil just fine.

[Dai Grepher]

It's not really so surprising when you consider in that he posted a large opinion with the quote that is was irrefutable fact in the "templars are factually better" thread.

Seriously, how delusional do you have to be to act like an opinion is genuine fact?

It wasn't opinion though. I and others posted proof from both game paths and compared them. If you disagree, the thread is still up. We can take it there if you want.

[Dorrieb]

I only exist through my mind and what I perceive...

You say something like that, and then deny that you're a nihilist. That's even worse, it's nihilistic solipsism. Nonsense.

 

Time has some permanence, but a human life does not, and that is what we are discussing.

 

Every life, human or otherwise, is a part of time. If time has permanence, then everything that time consists of also has permanence.

 

I didn't write that time exists only as I perceive it. Of course time existed before me and will continue to exist after me, the point is that none of it matters to those who go into oblivion, because once you go into oblivion, there is no more you.

 

I understand what you're saying, you're just wrong. If Time has permanence, then the past has permanence. Everything that happens stays 'happened'. No, there is no you 'after' you die, but 'after' is only a relative position in Time. There is no you in Uruguay right now either (I'm guessing), does that mean that you don't exist?

 

 

Your analogy is off. A book can have a conclusion because the book still exists. The reader can go back and read it again.

 

That's exactly how it is.

 

Anywhere between a second and a few minutes depending on the user's meaning.

 

Only if you enslave your perception to time-measuring devices. Minutes and seconds are not natural realities, they are units of measurement defined by us for convenience in measuring time. Events that seem simultaneous from one point in space are not simultaneous to other observers at a distance. Time is not absolute. I thought everyone knew that?

 

What matters is that the sand keeps flowing. If there's an infinite amount of sand, then it means you get to watch sand flow forever.

 

Whee! What fun.

 

And from this it's clear to me that you don't understand the concept of oblivion. It means that your consciousness ceases to exist. You have no awareness, no senses, no memory, no thought. You're here one second and in the next you're just gone. You won't even know that you ever existed at all.

 

I understand it very well, but it's a false concept. It is based on the solipsistic assumption that what you don't perceive does not exist: when your train leaves the station, the station ceases to exist. You think it's different when you apply it to Time instead of Space, but it really isn't. Everything you leave behind, including yourself, is still there.

 

 

I think this might also be why Sera favors the Chant of Light, because her biggest fear is "The Nothing".

 

That's what nihilism is at its core: fear. Don't fear the reaper!

[Xerrai]

It wasn't opinion though. I and others posted proof from both game paths and compared them. If you disagree, the thread is still up. We can take it there if you want.

Except it was opinion (i.e true to you. Not necessarily to others). Several others have put up counter arguments that are just as valid. Templars being "objectively better" is just that--an opinion. Not a fact.

[sniper_arrow]

Or you can be neither.

Admit that both elves and men alike have flaws. That elves are not inherently better then men and vice versa. That just like in ancient times, every man and elf has and continues to have, mortal flaws.

 

The OP, and people who share his sentiments, are but a selective group of extremists that think ancient elves were infallible (divine basically). But there are several opinions that don't align with them, and do not align themselves as being "anti-elf" or "anti-human" either.

 

You can call the OP and his(?) ilk crazy, that would be an understatement.

[Silcron]

Please, all this talking about the inferior races. How can you guys not see? It's in the name of the games!

Dragon Master Race. Let the dragons come back and rule the world as they were always meant to do.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There is a proper blessing for Solas. May the Maker bless and keep him...

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's not really so surprising when you consider in that he posted a large opinion with the quote that is was irrefutable fact in the "templars are factually better" thread. 

 

 

Seriously, how delusional do you have to be to act like an opinion is genuine fact?

 

I bet TKS and Dai Grepher are related. 

 

That you can't differentiate an opinion from fact or just refuse to do so because it is inconvenient for you and then going with your incorrect assessments doesn't mean im wrong.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

The time of the elves is over, the time has come for the dominion of men

Men will Die

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Please, all this talking about the inferior races. How can you guys not see? It's in the name of the games!

Dragon Master Race. Let the dragons come back and rule the world as they were always meant to do.

Didn't you saw that a dragon kneel before Solas?

 

Brainless Lavellans coming in.

Word spoken from a brainless Morrigan romancer    

[Andrew Lucas]

Didn't you saw that a dragon kneel before Solas?
 

Word spoken from a brainless Morrigan romancer 

#TRIGGERED

[Secret Rare]

Of course....he want to kill us all and he even deserve our blessing..

[Serza]

I may like Solas, but I don't like his plan. At all. So, no, I will not support genocide.

 

I like this Elf. She understands.

 

He may be a hero, but at a terrible price. He must not be allowed to tarnish his reputation for a second time. It might be even worse than it was.