87 réponses à ce sujet

[PapaCharlie9]

I also had no idea that BnS had variable stamina cost. Glossed right over that section in the Guide.

I certainly got knocked onto my butt against the shield charge, maybe I wasn't positioned entirely correctly?

Were you using Trials? I've noticed that some promoted shield knights in Emerald Graves can't be countered. I (Artificer) got one-shotted by those guys a few times from full health, though I don't remember if it was the charge itself, or the hit afterwards.

[Gya]

I also had no idea that BnS had variable stamina cost. Glossed right over that section in the Guide.

Were you using Trials? I've noticed that some promoted shield knights in Emerald Graves can't be countered. I (Artificer) got one-shotted by those guys a few times from full health, though I don't remember if it was the charge itself, or the hit afterwards.

 

Yeah, maybe that was it? Can't recall if it was against normal or promoted enemies, or both. Certainly promoted mooks with guard are immune to knockdown, I hadn't considered that maybe they had an unblockable charge! 

[capn233]

• When an attack is blocked, the caster loses up to 20 stamina. If the caster has less than 20 stamina, the attack will still be blocked and the resulting counterattack made, and the caster's stamina will be reduced to 0.

 

This does not appear correct in the current version of the game.  That was why I was replaying Crossroads and screwing around with these enemies.

 

It did not counter any attack if current stamina was below the ~amount it would subtract.  The block would fail and I would take damage.  Interestingly, the Defender would be stunned with the failed block, but I would still take damage.  This is why BnS was nearly useless vs the Knight since the stamina cost to block his swings was over 60.

 

Also it was not possible for me to block the Defender's charge with BnS.

[capn233]

Had time to redo this briefly.  Either the stamina cutoff is scaled or was changed to something related to the actual cost of the block itself.  I used Chain to pull in the Knight, and then used pause so I could go to attribute page to look at stamina before and afterwards while observing the blocks.

 

Vs Crossroads Templar Knight (Level 4)

 

First Attempt - Stamina 99

-Pass - Stamina set to 38 (cost 61)

 

Second Attempt - Stamina 52

-Pass - Stamina set to 0 (cost 52)

 

Third Attempt - Stamina 11

-FAIL - Stamina set to 3 - 61 damage taken

 

Fourth Attempt - Stamina 25

-FAIL - Stamina set to 2 - 61 damage taken

 

Fifth Attempt - Stamina 44

-FAIL - Stamina set to 3 - 61 damage taken

 

Sixth Attempt - Stamina 52

-Pass - Stamina set to 0

 

I ran around a little to regen stamina for the last three.

 

In any case, the limit of 20 from the other thread appears to be more like 50 with this enemy.

 

I know I blocked Sellsword attacks with only 31 stamina in the previous wave, but wasn't trying to find a lower limit on them with great precision.

[capn233]

More info... same encounter in the Hinterlands at the Crossroads.  Some pertinent info for Inquisitor:

 

Inquisitor - Level 3

 

Maul of the Dragon
Crafted Armor - 72 armor, 3% melee defense, +40 health

Max Health: 614

Armor Rating Front: 84

Melee defense: 5%

 

I'll keep this brief, but in short what I was doing this time was trying to verify the differences in stamina cost for the phases of the block to compare with the old mechanics post.  So basically pause to look at initial stamina, go back and initiate block, pause and recheck, then allow the hit attempt, and then pause a final time to check end stamina after successful or failed block.  In some cases I tried to block early to allow stamina to tick down to see if there would be differences in cost.  The numbers I posted earlier were total cost.

 

Example:  initial stamina -> stamina after block stance -> Pass / Fail block attempt -> final stamina

 

Level 4 Templar Knight

 

51   -> 40 -> Pass -> 0

59   -> 49 -> Pass -> 0

58   -> 48 -> Pass -> 0

52   -> 42 -> Pass -> 0

100 -> 89 -> Pass -> 37

100 -> 89 -> Pass -> 37

70   -> 57 -> Pass -> 8

44   -> 34 -> FAIL  -> 0 (61 damage taken)

52   -> 42 -> Pass -> 0

91   -> 78 -> Pass -> 26

76   -> 62 -> Pass -> 10

54   -> 43 -> Pass -> 0

54   -> 36 -> FAIL  -> 2 (61 damage taken)

 

This guy is decent to run trials on since you can fight him near the edge of the area he wants to stay in, and also run around to regen different stamina amounts.  It is hard to dial in exact stamina values for testing, but it looks like around 40ish stamina is required at the time the enemy strikes the block to block successfully.  It can cost up to 50ish though if there is enough stamina at the time of the block.

 

Also the damage taken in failed blocks (due to lack of stamina) was always 61, not a range like with normal hits.  Unblocked hits from this guy were in the neighborhood of mid 70's to 80's, which vary per hit as with normal attacks.  More on this in a bit.

 

Level 4 Templar Defender (shield guy)

 

This guy is harder to test, since running around to regen stamina makes him want to charge you.  If you stand in front of him, he does normal swings, but this leads to essentially testing a couple stamina values over and over.

 

97 -> 87 -> Pass -> 55

66 -> 53 -> Pass -> 21

33 -> 22 -> Pass -> 0

94 -> 83 -> Pass -> 51

60 -> 49 -> Pass -> 17

30 -> 20 -> *Target Stunned, Inquisitor Stuck in Block Pose -> 0

31 -> 21 -> FAIL -> 1 - 61 damage taken

40 -> 30 -> Pass -> 0

20 -> 10 -> FAIL -> 0 - 61 damage taken

 

The oddity here is the time I was at 20 stamina right before the melee attempt struck the block.  It was more like a failed block in that the templar was stunned and not knocked down, although the Inquisitor was not staggered backwards like with the other failed blocks.

 

Unblocked melee swings from this enemy did 180-190 damage, which was different from the Knight.  Failed blocks result in the same 61 damage taken on this character / setup.  Which is suspiciously like 10% of max health... So I switched to Armor of the Dragon.

 

Failed Blocks

 

Level 3 Inquisitor - Armor of the Dragon

Max Health: 574

 

At this point, blocks that failed from lack of stamina resulted in the Inquisitor taking 57 damage from either the Knight or Defender.

 

Defender - Charging Bull

 

I could not block the defender's Charging Bull regardless of stamina.

 

Damage from CB no block attempt: 134, 144, 145, 134, 143

Damage from CB w/ block attempt: 138, 148, 130, 135, 145

 

The Knight doesn't really have an attack analogous to this.  I tried botching block attempts mainly by turning, but that may have just put him into flanking bonus since the numbers were in the low 100's.

 

I have saves with Knight and Defender remaining, and just Defender remaining, so could theoretically run this a bazillion times, but really I didn't want my solo run to just be a test of BnS really.

[PapaCharlie9]

Sadly, we've already seen substantive differences between Patch 10/11 without Trespasser and with Trespasser -- strange behavior of Energy Barrage being one example. No telling whether the results you are seeing translate to a game with Trespasser installed.

There also seem to be differences between new games started with Patch+Trespasser and those upgraded mid-game. This Fire Mine bug, for example:

http://forum.bioware...-chaotic-focus/

[capn233]

I hadn't even played SP since the last patch came out (actually Sept 9th was the last time before this character, not very long after Patch 10), but got on a Dragon Age solo kick recently and wanted to try one in DAI.

 

I don't remember being as unhappy with BnS with either of my previous 2H, but the first one was over a year ago, and the other was before Patch 10.  Don't know if either was the culprit.  Does BnS definitely only cost 20 stamina max with Trespasser installed?

[Gya]

Which specialisation are you going to take btw?

[Pressedcat]

Does BnS definitely only cost 20 stamina max with Trespasser installed?

 

Playing with Trespasser installed from the outset on PS4, I've always had the stamina cost of BnS scale with what I assumed was the damage of the attack stopped. Against mooks BnS costs only about 1/4-1/3 of total stamina, whilst against promoted elite guardsmen a single block can wipe out 50% or more of the stamina bar.

 

Also, in reference to your earlier post, I've found that BnS no longer works against the shield charge of guardsmen nor the shield-bash of their promoted versions.

[capn233]

Which specialisation are you going to take btw?

 

I haven't actually decided.  I might go Champion since I haven't played a full campaign with one.  Then again Reaver is so good, it might be hard to skip.

 

Playing with Trespasser installed from the outset on PS4, I've always had the stamina cost of BnS scale with what I assumed was the damage of the attack stopped. Against mooks BnS costs only about 1/4-1/3 of total stamina, whilst against promoted elite guardsmen a single block can wipe out 50% or more of the stamina bar.

 

Also, in reference to your earlier post, I've found that BnS no longer works against the shield charge of guardsmen nor the shield-bash of their promoted versions.

 

Yeah I wondered if it was based on damage, but that is why I was trying to look at unblocked hits for the Knight and Defender, and was somewhat surprised that the Defender was hitting me for much more damage even though blocking his swing cost less stamina.  More AP, or did he sunder me and I missed it?  Scaling on some base damage that is modified a bunch of times, or some enemy rank?

[capn233]

The last couple days felt like I didn't accomplish much.  I collected shards that I could, got to 10 Spirit Resist, cleared part of Storm Coast and picked up the Mighty Offense recipe.  Ended up going to Fallow Mire and lighting up the beacon path and defeated the Avaar guy.  Was at level 10.  So I went to do In Your Heart Shall Burn.

 

Not going to claim this is the best build, but this is what I ran:

 

Shield Wall -> Bear Mauls the Wolves

Mighty Blow+

War Cry -> Charging Bull -> It'll Cost You -> Livid

Grappling Chain+ -> Crippling Blows -> Combat Roll

 

Masterwork Vanguard (136) - the one looted from Merc Fortress, but mods swapped out for superior version looted in Fallow Mire.

Fereldan Soldier Helmet

Enhanced Belt of Health

Ring of Life Drain x2

Jagged Battle Axe (153) - Tier 2 schematic from Val Royeaux with T2 damage.  6% Attack, 12% Barrier Damage, 12% Flanking Damage, 12% Heal on Kill

 

I thought about crafting a set with fire resistance before the mission, but didn't bother.  It would have made some of it a little easier.  I actually have 2 different T2 heavy schematics and armor rating would have been a little better.

 

I ended up playing it twice.  The reason was because Lysette and Flissa died and I wanted to save everyone.  Saving the NPC's was the hardest part for me by far, specifically Lysette and Threnn, both of whom like to charge onto fire mines.  For Flissa, I just forgot about her the first time.

 

I retreated from the third trebuchet.  The second time through the enemies followed me in groups though.  The third group was the most annoying since it has 2 shield guys.  The last wave with Fiona wasn't too bad, although she followed with a shield guy and mook the second time around.  When I could get Fiona 1 on 1 I just used a couple jars of bees to keep her panicked and cut down on her bs spells.

[capn233]

I hit 11 on the way to getting a specialization.  That point went into Gore and Trample.  I crafted dragon armor with the skyhold schematic and threw on "health 20% of damage over 10s" paragon's luster.  Also had dragonling scale for fire resist.  This is almost just throwaway armor, the only small benefit over my looted armor is the fire resist and slightly higher armor rating.  The heal is nearly negligible currently due to the way it works.

 

Unlocked Exalted Plains and went to fight the three champions.  Interestingly I had already acquired three infusion primers, so I grabbed some rashvine around the map to meet requirements for Reaver as well.  I was not able to clear the gurguts in Ghilan'nain's Grove who just say "lolpoison" over and over.  I just ran past them.  Interestingly, one decided to show up halfway through fighting the last champion.

 

To get to the point, I saved before committing to the spec in Skyhold, took champion, then went to Crestwood.  I did not respec, but had the amulet in inventory.  Cleared Caer Bronach without much issue, and fighting the two handed guy and his lieutenants at the end was sort of fun.  Combat Roll being the most important ability I have against 2H.  Still, low damage output and no immediate guard breaking abilities is what makes this slow, the upside is that you don't have to spend potions if you dodge, and you can actually get in auto attacks for stamina regen.

 

The rift in the old village was a huge hassle though.  Character is too weak against Wraiths, and somewhat weak against enemies with barrier.  The fight against the level 11 elite rage demon for "Burdens of Command" was also a pain with his lolbarrier.  Also couldn't completely avoid his swipes with roll, might have been my fault.

 

I stopped before the final rift fight.  Strongly considering writing off the hour or whatever it was in Crestwood as a loss and reloading before spec to take Reaver for some actual damage output, or going to collect the Templar materials so I can nuke demons who pop their lolbarrier.  Alternatively I am going to have to come up with a better solution for Wraiths.  Probably should also break down and buy spirit resist tonic.

 

What I don't want to do is just go farm T3 schematics, but I suppose that is also an option.

[Gya]

I hit 11 on the way to getting a specialization. That point went into Gore and Trample. I crafted dragon armor with the skyhold schematic and threw on "health 20% of damage over 10s" paragon's luster. Also had dragonling scale for fire resist. This is almost just throwaway armor, the only small benefit over my looted armor is the fire resist and slightly higher armor rating. The heal is nearly negligible currently due to the way it works.

Unlocked Exalted Plains and went to fight the three champions. Interestingly I had already acquired three infusion primers, so I grabbed some rashvine around the map to meet requirements for Reaver as well. I was not able to clear the gurguts in Ghilan'nain's Grove who just say "lolpoison" over and over. I just ran past them. Interestingly, one decided to show up halfway through fighting the last champion.

To get to the point, I saved before committing to the spec in Skyhold, took champion, then went to Crestwood. I did not respec, but had the amulet in inventory. Cleared Caer Bronach without much issue, and fighting the two handed guy and his lieutenants at the end was sort of fun. Combat Roll being the most important ability I have against 2H. Still, low damage output and no immediate guard breaking abilities is what makes this slow, the upside is that you don't have to spend potions if you dodge, and you can actually get in auto attacks for stamina regen.

The rift in the old village was a huge hassle though. Character is too weak against Wraiths, and somewhat weak against enemies with barrier. The fight against the level 11 elite rage demon for "Burdens of Command" was also a pain with his lolbarrier. Also couldn't completely avoid his swipes with roll, might have been my fault.

I stopped before the final rift fight. Strongly considering writing off the hour or whatever it was in Crestwood as a loss and reloading before spec to take Reaver for some actual damage output, or going to collect the Templar materials so I can nuke demons who pop their lolbarrier. Alternatively I am going to have to come up with a better solution for Wraiths. Probably should also break down and buy spirit resist tonic.

What I don't want to do is just go farm T3 schematics, but I suppose that is also an option.

The nerf to walking fortress means it's probably not viable to keep it up practically constantly so you can spam whirlwind, which I imagine would be a reasonable source of damage output. The downside is even if you could still do that, whirlwind is oh-so-blockable.

With the reaver, it'll be a few more levels before you can get dragon rage and maintain survivability, so damage output is likely to remain low for a while. Also, wraiths 2op pls nerf.

[capn233]

Well, probably gonna have to craft a new weapon soon anyway, which means more mats.  The current one has flanking just because that was the only leather I had enough of at the time.  Crit chance would be nice (bear would give me 9 in that axe), but highest base damage schematic I have currently is masterwork greatsword T2 which is just metal utility x2.

 

The wraiths are mostly frustrating since nominally they seem like they should be low tier units, but are annoyingly the most dangerous units to me, especially in groups.  Even alone they still potentially damage more than practically anything since they can't be perpetually stunned or knocked down, they pop barrier, and their attacks bypass armor.  At least archers have the decency to do none of those things.  Tonic will address part of that.

 

I agree that with Reaver it won't be simple DR spam right now, character is spread thin on points, and gear is mediocre.  Sort of the same thing with either of the other specs, although could probably get Spell Purge without too much sacrifice.

[PapaCharlie9]

Agreed, Reaver won't pay off soon enough. You'll be even more squishy for a while.

This just underlines how lop-sided a non-Trespasser Patch 10+ run is. You fought Fiona in Haven, so with Trespasser you would have picked up the Enhanced Amulet of Barrier, which would have solved your wraith/spirit damage problem. But no Trespasser, no Amulet.

Yeah, either spring for the resist Tonic, or go Templar. I think you'll have more fun as Templar anyway.

Do hang in there with the 2H skill tree, though. Once you get Pommel Strike+ and Flow of Battle working with Mighty Blow+ and Whirlwind+, your damage output is going to shoot way up.

EDIT: Another thing you can do is just grind to level up. Stay away from rifts and just grind in the Western Approach. Also, do the war table mission that gives you a level-up amulet. Sadly, the other level-up amulet requires fighting a bunch more wraiths (Crestwood, Still Waters quest to open locked door in village).

[Bigdawg13]

Templar was my favorite run of all time (of the warriors that is at least...maybe all classes).  I have a hard time passing up the utility of Spell Purge.  You can use it to remove barriers on enemies, magical rebuffs on you, or those bloody electric circles dragons put on you.  Plus when combo'd with Wrath of Heaven it is just a lot of fun. 

 

I think Champion is ok, but really boring IMHO.  Maybe I'm just shallow, but I like flash and awe.  Reaver will eventually be doing better damage than any other warrior; however, I get really bored of the dragon rage spam.  When I play a warrior, I want the visceral feedback of the 2H weapon.  It's why even on PC I play with a controller, because it gives feedback.  When you block with Block n Slash, the controller gives physical feedback.  I love that!!! 

 

I really think the bottom of the 2H tree could have been a lot better.  Earthshattering Strike should have been so awesome, that it'd be a must-have for any person favoring a 2H weapon.

[capn233]

I think you guys have convinced me to go Templar.

 

As far as 2H tree goes, I wish Whirlwind was Two Handed Sweep and I don't like Earthshattering Strike at all.  Too bad it isn't Indomitable.

[Ruegar14]

If u go Templar check out the Templar thread I made. There's loads of info from a few posts and 2 linked threads that have more than enough Templar builds/advice/strategy/gameplay tips than u can wrap ur brain around .

[Gya]

I think you guys have convinced me to go Templar.

As far as 2H tree goes, I wish Whirlwind was Two Handed Sweep and I don't like Earthshattering Strike at all. Too bad it isn't Indomitable.

I was angling for Reaver, but Templar is good too

[capn233]

So I did in fact use "time magic" to go back before my spec.  And then broke the mission...

 

This time I unlocked Hissing Wastes and Western Approach.  Went to Western Approach and picked up the Masterwork Vanguard Armor from Shimmering Mine (163 armor).  Didn't do anything else notable there really.  Then I went to Hissing Wastes and tried to pick up some volcanic arum on my way to the canyon, and in the first part of it.  Bought Battlemaster Arms and Superior Battlemaster Legs for the armor, so all enchants looked like: 11 Con, 15% magic defense, +40 health, 3% melee defense, 2 guard on hit.  Didn't loot the tombs.

 

Went ahead and crafted the T2 Masterwork Greatsword, although I didn't actually have enough Volcanic Arum for it.  So just T2 mats.  173 dmg, +20 Strength, 6% HoK.  Got a Cleansing Rune (war table I think) and put it in it.

 

Went to Hinterlands to get the philters.  Wounded Pride Demon (Level 12) took a while to kill.  The others weren't so bad.  All three supported by 2 Despair Demons.  Then to Val Royeaux for Spirit Resistance Tonic, also picked up T2 sword grip which let me add 12% attack.

 

Caer Bronach wasn't much trouble the last time, and was similarly straightforward this time, except I was doing a bit more damage, had better armor rating and guard generation.  I didn't bother to respec until after taking the keep, but I could have done so beforehand without too big a loss as this was what I settled on at 11:

 

Shield Wall -> BMTW

Mighty Blow+

Challenge -> Charging Bull+

Grappling Chain+ -> Crippling Blows -> Combat Roll

Spell Purge+

 

Basically just swapped It'll Cost You and Livid for upgraded Spell Purge.  Swapped War Cry for Challenge, but that isn't entirely relevant at this point.  In any case, also had enough herbs to upgrade the spirit tonic.  The rift in the old town was much easier, and actually Spell Purge was conveniently off cooldown before the second wave spawned, and so I apparently purged the rage demon in that wave.  Hit 12 somewhere in old town and took Champions of the Just.  I'd actually prefer the right two passives in Templar more than the left, since Last Sacrifice isn't going to help me, but wanted to get Wrath ASAP.

 

Rage demon fight for the spirit was drastically easier with better gear and nuking his barrier.  The final rift wasn't so bad, but I was out of position before the final wave and had to fight all of them for that one.  Burned pots since the wraiths were fire enchanted by the rage demon, and somehow my Mark of the Rift missed them.

 

Used the amulet of power from the town to grab Last Sacrifice anyway.  Did some menial tasks and then went to kill the Northern Hunter.  Was relatively straightforward, although I only brought 2 lightning resist tonics with me.  She tried to cheat by zapping a druffy, who promptly charged me, but it fortunately ran off.

 

I went to the cave in SE Storm Coast to kill the rift and grab the last couple shards.  Doing so got me to Level 13, and I was able to get Wrath.  The giant spiders in the area were nice test subjects for wombo combo.  Real shame Templar didn't get Charging Bull/Gore and Trample.

 

Not sure where I am going to go next, I suppose I could try to get schematics.  Typically I would clear Emprise through at least Valeska's Watch to try and pick up some T3 mats and schematics.

 

As far as the build is concerned, I think it works pretty decently across most enemies now.  I will probably try to grab Flow of Battle soon, although my current crit chance of a whole 5% means it won't be all that valuable.  Would need different crafted gear to make it worthwhile. I have one free active slot and will probably use it for Pommel.  In no small part because it is near Flow of Battle anyway, and not sure what else will be helpful, other than maybe Livid.

[PapaCharlie9]

Nice job on Still Waters. If you can survive that, you can survive Here Lies The Abyss.
 

Used the amulet of power from the town to grab Last Sacrifice anyway.

Why? If you already had Wrath, there's no benefit, unless the 50% damage bonus applies all the time, not just when you are dead and not just to your party, which you don't have.

Why not spend the point on 2H towards this?

As far as the build is concerned, I think it works pretty decently across most enemies now.  I will probably try to grab Flow of Battle soon, although my current crit chance of a whole 5% means it won't be all that valuable.  Would need different crafted gear to make it worthwhile. I have one free active slot and will probably use it for Pommel.  In no small part because it is near Flow of Battle anyway, and not sure what else will be helpful, other than maybe Livid.

Don't forget that with Pommel Strike+ and Mighty Blow+, you can self-combo when WrathPurge isn't up. I also like stun-locking mooks until they die from Pommel Strike alone.

[jonmoore86]

 

As far as the build is concerned, I think it works pretty decently across most enemies now.  I will probably try to grab Flow of Battle soon, although my current crit chance of a whole 5% means it won't be all that valuable.  Would need different crafted gear to make it worthwhile. I have one free active slot and will probably use it for Pommel.  In no small part because it is near Flow of Battle anyway, and not sure what else will be helpful, other than maybe Livid.

 You could always do the hand puzzle in exalted plains to get the superb amulet of cunning. That and doing WEWH before here lies the abyss will get you a total of 20% crit on top of the 5% you already have. Plus you can craft the tier 2 jagged battle axe for even more crit.

[capn233]

Nice job on Still Waters. If you can survive that, you can survive Here Lies The Abyss.
 
Why? If you already had Wrath, there's no benefit, unless the 50% damage bonus applies all the time, not just when you are dead and not just to your party, which you don't have.

Why not spend the point on 2H towards this?

Don't forget that with Pommel Strike+ and Mighty Blow+, you can self-combo when WrathPurge isn't up. I also like stun-locking mooks until they die from Pommel Strike alone.

 

I didn't have Wrath yet, that's why I took it.  If I was going to skip it and go down the right side of the tree Wrath would be delayed one level relative to going down the right side.  Essentially it is a choice between useless Last Sacrifice and getting Wrath a level earlier; or wasting a point on Blessed Blades, getting a slightly better passive, and getting Wrath one level later.  Or I would have had to respec at 13 to steal a point from one of the other trees to get Wrath at that time.

 

Was most likely going to go Pommel.  Points seem kind of tight on this character since I need to be able to "do everything," more or less.  Unless I was willing to respec constantly for specific fights, which I don't really want to do.

 

 You could always do the hand puzzle in exalted plains to get the superb amulet of cunning. That and doing WEWH before here lies the abyss will get you a total of 20% crit on top of the 5% you already have. Plus you can craft the tier 2 jagged battle axe for even more crit.

 

Yeah I should take care of those things.  Also I am accumulating decent gold now, and the Dragon Hunter schematic is starting to tempt me.

[PapaCharlie9]

I didn't have Wrath yet, that's why I took it.  If I was going to skip it and go down the right side of the tree Wrath would be delayed one level relative to going down the right side.

 
My bad, I missed the essential "but" in this earlier sentence:

I'd actually prefer the right two passives in Templar more than the left, since Last Sacrifice isn't going to help me, but wanted to get Wrath ASAP.

 
All I got out of that was that you were going down the right hand side, thus my confusion.

[capn233]

Ah ok.  I almost just went down the right side, but I made pretty good use of Wrath in the mean time at level 13.