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[VorexRyder]

Solas sealing the Evanuris and creating the Veil could be see as the death of Alexander, the war of Tevinter against the Remnants of the Elvhenan could map to the Macedonian wars, a splintered Empire brought by the death(disappearance) of its leader(s) which caused it to splinter and become weak, allowing for it to be conquered. Tevinter was even influenced by Elvhen culture(magical practices, it's gods,), like Rome was by Greece, then we have an expy of the rest of Western History, ending with the Dragon Age(specially after the evengtof Inquisition) being the start of the Age of Enlightenment/Renaissance Era:
 

 

The Enlightenment included a range of ideas centered on reason as the primary source of authority and legitimacy, and came to advance ideals such as liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government and ending the abuses of the church and state In France, the central doctrines of the Lumières were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to the principle of absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

 

Tevinter rose 2,000 years ago from city states to empire/republic(Antiquity Begins), then spent 1,000 years conquering Thedas before falling(Antiquity ends, Fall of Western Roman Empire, Middle Ages Begin), the Chantry and Orlais are founded by Kordillus(Carolignian Empire, Early Middle Ages), 300 years later you have the Construction of the Grand Cathedral of Val Royeaux, the founding of the Imperial Chantry and the Exalted Marches(Byzantine Empire, Crusades), 200-400 years after that the Clayne tribes untied to form Ferelden, Nevarra goes from Marcher City State to Full-blown Kingdom, Qunari Land in Par Vollen(High Middle Ages, Rise of Islam,).

 

 

[straykat]

Elves are borrowed from a lot of things.. not just this. There's American Indians, Jewish Ghetto/Exile culture, and just generally speaking, almost all fantasy writers can't get away from talking about Elves and some "lost past". Its the most played out idea in all of fantasy, no matter the setting or author.

[VorexRyder]

Elves are borrowed from a lot of things.. not just this. There's American Indians, Jewish Ghetto/Exile culture, and just generally speaking, almost all fantasy writers can't get away from talking about Elves and some "lost past". Its the most played out idea in all of fantasy, no matter the setting or author.

 

1.-Referring specifically to the Elvhenan.

2.-Referring to it's position within Thedas' "Western History Parallel".

[VorexRyder]

Elves are borrowed from a lot of things.. not just this. There's American Indians, Jewish Ghetto/Exile culture, and just generally speaking, almost all fantasy writers can't get away from talking about Elves and some "lost past". Its the most played out idea in all of fantasy, no matter the setting or author.

 

1.-Referring specifically to the Elvhenan.

2.-Referring to it's position within Thedas' "Western History Parallel".

[Fiskrens]

Yes, but what straykat says still applies. There are similarities to more than Ancient Greece and Roman Empire.

[straykat]

1.-Referring specifically to the Elvhenan.

2.-Referring to it's position within Thedas' "Western History Parallel".

 

Fair enough.

 

On a sidenote though, I'd say Greece got a lot cooler after Alexander

[greenbrownblue]

Tevinter was even influenced by Elvhen culture(magical practices, it's gods,), like Rome was by Greece, 

 

Just in case someone is not really into history: Rome took whatever Greece had and made it better. 

I do not really see the similarities. Yes, Alexander's death marks the end of the classical greece period but you can't compare the classical greece period to the Elvhenan and the hellenistic period to the world without the Fade.

Alexander's death was not nearly as tragic as separation the mortal world from the Fade. Btw, why compare the creation of the Veil to his death and not the barbarian invasion (like Tevinter invaded weakened Elvhenan)? In DA there was nothing more superior than Elvhenan. In our real history, Rome rises to power and becomes the greatest and the most enlighted Empire known to history (the whole Europe bases on Roman culture, not Greek culture). 

Comparing Elvhenan to Greece is like comparing a pitbull to a chihuahua. Comparing Elvhenan to Rome is like comparing a pitbull to a pitbull.

[straykat]

I would say Hellenism was a good thing.. it prepared the way for common literacy, common scientific inquiry, common tongue, and for the Church's rise to boot. Granted, that all was mostly set back with the so called dark age later, but it still was a form of progress. The loss of the Elvhanan has more of an apocalyptic feel to it. Not the rise of progress and globalism which was what Alexander paved the way for. Maybe some Greeks didn't like it, but it wasn't bad for other people.

[Ashagar]

To be honest the Evanuris and their followers make me think of the Sumerian gods myself given their behavior and how their followers were seen as the slaves of the gods. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@straykat:  Knowledge simply shifted during the dark ages - and even then, it was only Western knowledge (which shifted to the Middle East).  India and China both were doing just fine... not to mention the Americas had they been unmolested by European darkspawn a thousand years later.  

 

The problem with worshiping the Greeks (and their Roman automatons) is that putting a value on their largely materialistic world view (at least what was ultimately assayed from their wisdom) has led us to a particular sticking point currently.  

 

It might be that nature disapproves of Hellenistic "wisdom" - and we'll be wishing we had approached the world from an entirely different standpoint someday.  

 

That being said... Solas does come from a vapid, self-centered society based on the Western values of conquest (of nature, magic, others - whatever) - but I don't really see any more comparison than that. 

[straykat]

@straykat:  Knowledge simply shifted during the dark ages - and even then, it was only Western knowledge (which shifted to the Middle East).  India and China both were doing just fine... not to mention the Americas had they been unmolested by European darkspawn a thousand years later.  

 

The problem with worshiping the Greeks (and their Roman automatons) is that putting a value on their largely materialistic world view (at least what was ultimately assayed from their wisdom) has led us to a particular sticking point currently.  

 

It might be that nature disapproves of Hellenistic "wisdom" - and we'll be wishing we had approached the world from an entirely different standpoint someday.  

 

That being said... Solas does come from a vapid, self-centered society based on the Western values of conquest (of nature, magic, others - whatever) - but I don't really see any more comparison than that. 

 

This is a bit off the subject, but I don't think the Greeks had a materialistic worldview per se. If they did, the West would have advanced much differently. There was one Greek school of thought (the Ionians) who emphasized a materialistic worldview, but they were suppressed by the rise of Pythagoras and later Plato/Aristotle. This was more of a Rationalist mindset, rather than Materialistic. It was a subtle difference. The Ionians were engineers and merchants, who put emphasis on real observation rather than philosophical and mathematical rationalizations. Pythagoras and his cohorts believed the world could be known through sheer thought, theory, and idea... it was divorced from materialism.

 

This in turn influenced the Church as well, who relied heavily on Plato/Aristotle and oppressed observation even further (most people blame the church for this anti-Science attitude, but it was originally that influence from the Pythagorean mindset. The Pythagoreans were mystics well before the church ever was). The Ionian viewpoint wasn't revived again until the Renaissance. And from there we get Kepler and Gallieo and modern science and "materialism" as we know it. Before that though, it was gone from Europe for a long time.

[Medhia_Nox]

@straykat:  I would love to discuss this further, perhaps via PM?  As you say, it's off topic. 

 

@OP: As for the Elvhen and Greece.  I don't think so.  I think it's far closer to the concept of Atlantis - which, while a fiction of Plato (a Greek) - was distinctly removed from Greek society by the imagination.  It is simply a cautionary tale and an aspiration rolled into one.  

[Secret Rare]

"The search for Atlantis(Arlathan) hits the deepest chords of the heart for the sense of melancholy loss of a wonderful thing, a happy perfection that once belonged to the human(elves) race. And so it awakens the hope that almost all of us carry inside: hope so often caressed and so often disappointed that certainly knows where, who knows when, there can be a land of peace and abundance, beauty and justice, where we, those poor creatures that we are, we could be happy ... "

 

Critias tells that the god Poseidon(Elgar nan) fell in love with Clito(Mythal) and cutted the hill where she lived, alternating three sea areas and land in concentric circles of different sizes, two were made of earth and three of 'water'making it inaccessible to men, who at the time did not know the navigation. Yields also lush the central part, occupied by a vast plain, making gush two sources, one hot and the other cold water. Poseidon(Elgar nan) and Clito(Mythal) had ten children(The Evanuris), the first of which, Atlante(Falon Din), would later become governor of the Empire.  The civilization of Atlantis became a rich and powerful monarchy and the island(Arlathan) was divided into ten zones, each governed by a son of the god of the sea and its descendants. The land was generating goods and products in abundance, and the island stood ports, royal palaces, temples and other majestic works. At the center of the city there was the sanctuary of Poseidon and Clito, one stadium long (177 meters), three wide and picks up in proportion, silver coated outside and orichalcum, gold and ivory inside, with a central gold statue of Poseidon on his chariot of winged steeds, who came to touch the ceiling of the temple. 

 

Each of the ten kings(Evanuris) ruled their region of expertise, and they were all linked to each other by the provisions laid down by Poseidon(ELgar nan) and engraved on a orichalcum slab placed at the center of the island, around which would gather to make decisions that concern everyone. Critias also describes the ritual to be performed before discussing which provided a hunt bull armed only with sticks and a libation with the blood of the killed, followed by an oath and a prayer.  The virtue and sobriety of rulers lasted for many generations, until the human nature got the upper hand on their divine nature. Fallen prey to the lust and greed, the Atlanteans they earned the wrath of Zeus(Solas), who summoned the gods to decide on their fate. 

[Big I]

I've always thought the elven empire had more in common with greek mythology than greek history. The conflict between the Evanuris and the Titans clearly parallels the story of the greek pantheon overthrowing the titans. Beyond that it's obvious that Dragon Age draws on a lot of mythology and culture. For example, Kordilus Drakon is probably based on Charlemagne, and Calenhad is probably based on King Arthur.

[Mistic]

I've always thought the elven empire had more in common with greek mythology than greek history. The conflict between the Evanuris and the Titans clearly parallels the story of the greek pantheon overthrowing the titans. Beyond that it's obvious that Dragon Age draws on a lot of mythology and culture. For example, Kordilus Drakon is probably based on Charlemagne, and Calenhad is probably based on King Arthur.

 

True. The stories of the Elven pantheon paint the Evanuris as beings akin to the Olympian gods (incredibly powerful, immortal, but full of mortal passions and bickering among them).

 

From a political standpoint, until DA:I I always considered Tevinter-Arlathan more like Rome-Carthage. After all, Rome razed Carthage to the ground, destroyed its people and its culture, and that marked the beginning of the Roman expansion in the Mediterranean.

 

Meanwhile, the Greek comparison doesn't work so well when you remember that the successor Hellenistic states were still far more powerful than any previous Greek city-state and reached heights in art, culture, philosophy and science, which can't be said of the Elven empire after Solas. Not to mention that even after their conquest Greek influence was so strong that, in the end, the Roman Empire adopted Greek as its official language. A far cry from what Tevinter did to Elven culture.

 

Still, it's pretty obvious that Bioware drew inspiration from many sources. The list of influences would be endless.

[Ashagar]

Its odd how some think of the greek gods but to me I think Sumer the first civilization which lead to the first empire and how its people were considered to be but slaves to the Sumerian gods with each city having their own god that their people were slaves to.

[Heimdall]

@straykat: Knowledge simply shifted during the dark ages - and even then, it was only Western knowledge (which shifted to the Middle East).

Not quite, that knowledge was largely preserved and still built upon in the Byzantine Empire throughout the period. And the term "dark ages" itself is rather misleading as there were developments of new methods and advancement even prior to reintroduction of classical knowledge to the western intelligentsia.

[straykat]

Dark ages is suitable enough.. but I know it's a misnomer. It's short and simple. What else can we call it? The Great Depression of the 6th Century Where Humans Made Worse Buildings and Art?

[Seraphim24]

Yeah.... no offense but the Elvhenan (in Inquisition terms) seem like they were inspired by Michael Bay action movies lol.

 

Dragon Age: Origin Elvhenan was clearly inspired by the concept of "Elves" in some capacity in the Anglo-Saxon tradition, which found it's way into Tolkien and other things.

[Seraphim24]

But not to say Michael Bay doesn't provide um, some... something... definitely.......... something

Spoiler

 

[straykat]

Michael Bay? You've lost me.

[Seraphim24]

Michael Bay? You've lost me.

 

It was mostly intended to poke at the notion that such is such is inspired by "ancient history" or some kind of "deep knowledge of the universe," as much it was intended to provide an accurate analogy..

 

In all seriousness I could of imagined the ancient Romans watching Michael Bay and being excited and paying for repeat tickets, frankly.

 

Ultimately, "Elvhenan" are inspired by Elves, no more no less.

[straykat]

I think I understand.

 

 

With Origins, I don't really view things through the lens of culture per se. It's more social issues and politics.. and grievances (like Zathrian's past). I don't even play my own Dalish as particularly "cultural". My characters are just "wild", and I kind of base both my male and female off of the Halla. And my City Elves off of the Trickster.

[VorexRyder]

I'm not saying that it's just the same thing with a different paintjob but that the bare bones holds some similarities in order to add some verisimilitude to the history of Thedas. In the way the different cultures occupy similar places to our own, Kordillus/Charlemagne Orlesian Empire/Carolignian.

 

The pre-Veil world itself seems to be very similar to how things were in the Silmarillion. Look at how the Evanuris are protrayed and compare them to the Vala, the way Elgar'nan is viewed strikes me as very similar to Orome for example. Of course, there was no Melkor instead the Evanuris all like Melkor.