291 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

 

Really this video is a howto guide on creating your own cadre of elite assassins.

 

A force no worthy antagonist is without.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Honestly the only time where i actually felt evil in BW games was in KOTOR and SWTOR (Warrior and Inquisitor). The reason for that is because all characters are serving the evil faction or had history with it. No matter how much you can try to do evil decisions or be an ******* with Inquisitor, Shepard, Warden, Bhaal etc. they all still want to stop the big bad, they just have different paths to achieve their goals.

 

I do realize Revan is similiar to a lot of BW protagonists but what makes him/her different is that in Dark Side path instead of destroying Big Bad he replaces him with himself.

Shepard can also side with Reapers to some extend with synthesis but he ultimately still stops them and saves the galaxy.

Revan turns his back on all his/her companions and people who supported you, wipes entire Jedi Council and Alliance, dethrones his main foe and becomes even greater threat to the galaxy than Malak was.

[Seishoujyo]

Renegade is not really evil. It's efficient. 

 

ME3? and even then, there's probably enough evidence to vouch for him/her being purely pragmatic.

 

BTW I mostly play Paragon, a mix of both.

 

Yeah Renegade is not evil, it's doing what you need to do, kind of like Jack Bauer in 24.

[Cyonan]

Honestly the only time where i actually felt evil in BW games was in KOTOR and SWTOR (Warrior and Inquisitor). The reason for that is because all characters are serving the evil faction or had history with it. No matter how much you can try to do evil decisions or be an ******* with Inquisitor, Shepard, Warden, Bhaal etc. they all still want to stop the big bad, they just have different paths to achieve their goals.

 

Also in SWtoR I get to continually shock Vette with the slave collar, which is fun.

[UpUpAway95]

Yeah Renegade is not evil, it's doing what you need to do, kind of like Jack Bauer in 24.

 

Agree, going Renegade does not turn the protagonist into the antagonist.  Still think it would be kind of cool if a player could choose to play each level as either the main protagonist or the main antagonist. Alternatively, they could add a replay option to each level, so that the player could replay a level as the antagonist... giving the player a chance to change the antagonist's responses to the choices the player already made as the protagonist.

[wrdnshprd]

im actually for playing a bad guy.. everyone thinks playing bad guys are cool.  i want a game showing the ruthlessness of being a bad guy.  i want video games to show why bad guys are well.. bad.  pull no punches.  be controversial.  be politically incorrect.  be racist.. be bigoted.. guess what folks.. thats part of being evil.  i dont want the bad guy to be sympathetic.  AT ALL.

 

people need to see how evil we can really be.. then maybe we will stop with this fad of "evil is cool".. its not cool.  there is nothing "cool" about playing a Hitler type character.. we need a game to show that evil.. and i think the way they can be most effective is by making US, the player, that evil character.

 

and what would make it even better is if we have a choice at the beginning of being good or bad.. but if you go evil.. its not jack bauer evil.. its just simply EVIL.

 

and if you play the good guy.. you lose at the end.  there is no happy ending.  you make the best of a terrible situation.. but in the end. .the bad guy still wins.

[UpUpAway95]

im actually for playing a bad guy.. everyone thinks playing bad guys are cool.  i want a game showing the ruthlessness of being a bad guy.  i want video games to show why bad guys are well.. bad.  pull no punches.  be controversial.  be politically incorrect.  be racist.. be bigoted.. guess what folks.. thats part of being evil.  i dont want the bad guy to be sympathetic.  AT ALL.

 

people need to see how evil we can really be.. then maybe we will stop with this fad of "evil is cool".. its not cool.  there is nothing "cool" about playing a Hitler type character.. we need a game to show that evil.. and i think the way they can be most effective is by making US, the player, that evil character.

 

and what would make it even better is if we have a choice at the beginning of being good or bad.. but if you go evil.. its not jack bauer evil.. its just simply EVIL.

 

and if you play the good guy.. you lose at the end.  there is no happy ending.  you make the best of a terrible situation.. but in the end. .the bad guy still wins.

 

... and a lot of people wouldn't buy it as a result... so, basically, not going to happen with any company looking to not lose money on the games they make.

[Onewomanarmy]

They could easily make it so we could play both as a bad guy and as a good guy, or choose one between them I mean. That way everyone gets what they want and everyone wins.

[Sartoz]

im actually for playing a bad guy.. everyone thinks playing bad guys are cool.  i want a game showing the ruthlessness of being a bad guy.  i want video games to show why bad guys are well.. bad.  pull no punches.  be controversial.  be politically incorrect.  be racist.. be bigoted.. guess what folks.. thats part of being evil.  i dont want the bad guy to be sympathetic.  AT ALL.

 

people need to see how evil we can really be.. then maybe we will stop with this fad of "evil is cool".. its not cool.  there is nothing "cool" about playing a Hitler type character.. we need a game to show that evil.. and i think the way they can be most effective is by making US, the player, that evil character.

 

and what would make it even better is if we have a choice at the beginning of being good or bad.. but if you go evil.. its not jack bauer evil.. its just simply EVIL.

 

and if you play the good guy.. you lose at the end.  there is no happy ending.  you make the best of a terrible situation.. but in the end. .the bad guy still wins.

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Hm...

If you read the Andromeda Plot Theme,  being evil is a non starter. At least, that is my interpretation. Why? For one, you don't have the necessary resources and manufacturing capabilities to use a Take-by-Force doctrine. On the contrary, cunning, diplomacy are a must have skill set. Plus, making allies is a necessity.  Off the bat, you are dealt a weak hand and choosing an "evil options" makes you even weaker.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Also in SWtoR I get to continually shock Vette with the slave collar, which is fun.

 

But she's so funny and cute! :/

[wrdnshprd]

... and a lot of people wouldn't buy it as a result... so, basically, not going to happen with any company looking to not lose money on the games they make.

 

im not entirely convinced of that.. i think if the game is good enough, it WILL sell.  

 

in prison break.. the good guys never really win.

 

in 24.. the good guys never REALLY win..  jack baur makes the best of a bad situation.. and yes, may stop a SPECIFIC attack.. but in the end, something bad always happens, even if that attack was stopped.

 

if you watch the very first nightmare on elm street from the 80s,  freddy wins at the end of that film.

 

etc..

 

there are plenty of examples of evil winning, and yet the franchise does well.  and all im saying is.. i wish someone would make a video game depicting REAL evil.  we need to stop with all this bad guy worship.  bad guys are bad for a reason.  i want a game showing that evil.  IMO, we need that kick in the mouth.

[Draining Dragon]

But she's so funny and cute! :/

Agreed. Being mean to Vette is like kicking a puppy. Even on my dark side sith warrior, I still removed the slave collar.

[UpUpAway95]

im not entirely convinced of that.. i think if the game is good enough, it WILL sell.  

 

in prison break.. the good guys never really win.

 

in 24.. the good guys never REALLY win..  jack baur makes the best of a bad situation.. and yes, may stop a SPECIFIC attack.. but in the end, something bad always happens, even if that attack was stopped.

 

if you watch the very first nightmare on elm street from the 80s,  freddy wins at the end of that film.

 

etc..

 

there are plenty of examples of evil winning, and yet the franchise does well.  and all im saying is.. i wish someone would make a video game depicting REAL evil.  we need to stop with all this bad guy worship.  bad guys are bad for a reason.  i want a game showing that evil.  IMO, we need that kick in the mouth.

 

You're being contradictory... on one hand, you want a player character to be absolutely evil and expressly not Jack Bauer but more evil than that... yet you instantly use Jack Bauer as your argument that the game would sell.  The reason why writers tend to write "soft evil villains" into their works IS expressly because making the villain protagonist too evil results in fewer people wanting to engage with the story... and that translate to a drop in sales.  If you're not convinced over it, I suggest you write your own game and try to sell it.  I still say it's not the sort of game that Bioware is ever going to be convinced to write.

 

Also, please provide some evidence that "kicking the players in the mouth" with a purely evil villain player character (effectively giving them a dose of, what, PTSD?)  is a scientifically proven way to teach them not to be evil or to not engage in "bad guy worship."  If decades of studies over whether or not violent video games make video gamers more violent have been inconclusive at best, I really doubt there are any studies that's show that an extremely evil video game would deter people from becoming evil or "worshipping" evil either.

[ThomasBlaine]

I hope we run into lots of separate factions of locals, some so alien that they're nearly unrecognizable as sentient creatures and some so grotesque and violent that we really will want to step in and try to do something about it, regardless of anthropological principles.

 

It always irks me how people decry the idea of colonization as evil by default, completely glossing over what members of hunter-gatherer societies were actually subject to, not least tribal warfare that would make any modern shootout look like a friendly snowball fight, stillbirths and child-death galore, rampant disease, population control by famine and gender roles so strict and ingrained that we might as well have been animals.

 

Humanity has a bad history trying to manage it sensibly and ethically, yes, and the welfare of indigenous peoples in and of itself probably wasn't the main objective, but we've come a long way since then and at its base the idea of bringing civilization to war-torn people practically at the mercy of the elements is a very humane one. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it, the sci-fi-lover in me is already drooling at the roleplaying opportunities, but calling the Ark-project evil imperialism or whatever and wanting it to be portrayed as such is pretty dismissive of just how much good it could do, and not just for those we could help develop. Taking that role and actually succeeding would be a huge step towards realizing the ultimate purpose and role of sentient beings in the universe.

 

Of course, I hope our meetings and relationships with the locals will be a good deal more involved than just the choice of whether or not to subjugate them, and that the locals themselves will be more alien and interesting than just analogies for more or less advanced versions of ourselves.

 

That said, if Bioware made an RPG where the protagonist really was "the bad guy" by conventional narrative wisdom, I'd so be up for that. Provided that the bad guy in question was still a thinking, feeling creature. The "bad guys are bad guys" mentality is for children's stories. It's not bad guy worship to be able to understand and sympathize with the motivations of the 'them' in an 'us vs. them' situation. That just makes it a bona fide conflict instead of a cartoon plot.

 

Ah, sorry for being late to the thread. Hope my post isn't entirely redundant.

[Master Warder Z_]

But she's so funny and cute! :/

Jaesa is better.

[Khrystyn]

Make us the bad guy?  And we still get the same best results? I don't get it. Wrong idea. Renegade is just fine to accomplish this role (it could be teenie weenie bit darker).

 

Besides, my Paragon will eat your heart of darkness out, vomit it out, and lick my lips on a nice Chianti, Chardonnay, Cabernet, or White Zindfandel. You'd last about 10 secs in my world.

[Commander Rpg]

Just think about it. It would just e great if the incorporate the other side of the story and make us look and feel like the jerks we are.

So you'd like to impersonate EA's CEO? That can be done, but I doubt Bioware's planning on making an RPG game based on their owner's real company life.