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I wish that Bioware would go the extra mile and make us the bad guy.


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#51
Master Warder Z_

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Yeah, but few have experienced that level of instant death. Leave it up to them to dramatize it (and dramatize it often it seems).

 

Well I suppose *shrugs* I mean he was born in 41, He grew in the aftermath of the war that saw the first wartime usage of nuclear arms and likely got to witness and or hear a lot about such destructive means, making it relatively easy to basically tell a story around a future where half of humanity dies off screen before the first episode even starts.



#52
Master Warder Z_

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This is absolutely the last thing that I think would be great.

 

I'd really prefer that at least some of the Andromedan natives are more advanced than us, specifically to avoid a heavy handed native oppression metaphor.

 

Well wouldn't that justify the usage of extreme force even further? I mean seriously, getting bogged down into a extended conflict with a technological equal is something that no one wants.



#53
Lady Artifice

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Well wouldn't that justify the usage of extreme force even further?

 

Sure. I have no problem with Bioware allowing the player extreme measure in a conflict scenario. I just don't want to play Avatar: the video game.


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#54
SNascimento

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If that means we're Space Romans then yes. 



#55
ZipZap2000

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Just think about it. we are an invading species that is not native to this part of the galaxy. We will need to take and colonize inhabitable planets that the species that are already living there will need/want. We are the parasite taking over that witch is not ours. It would just e great if the incorporate the other side of the story and make us look and feel like the jerks we are. In Andromeda we are the British/Spanish/French and the local aliens are the Native Americans. It would make for a fun and interesting story. Not just us being the great white hero that saves all mankind yet again.


Americans seem to think that only their natives were oppressed and slaughtered. And that only the countries who colonised the Americas did it.

Believe it or not others were actually worse. Maybe not as bad as the British but you get me.

The perch that country has sat itself on on wedged so far up a Batarians butt they cant see the light anymore I swear.
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#56
In Exile

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Apart from all the issues with how costly reactive content is, and why it isn't worth it, the basic reason we can't be a villain is that villains are too active in the story. Villains are usually the catalyst for the plot - villains act, and heroes react. Bioware has no idea how to write plots where the protagonist is active instead of reactive - and in fact I can't even think of an RPG where this was ever done - which is why being the bad guy is reduced to being a psychotic thug. 


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#57
straykat

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Apart from all the issues with how costly reactive content is, and why it isn't worth it, the basic reason we can't be a villain is that villains are too active in the story. Villains are usually the catalyst for the plot - villains act, and heroes react. Bioware has no idea how to write plots where the protagonist is active instead of reactive - and in fact I can't even think of an RPG where this was ever done - which is why being the bad guy is reduced to being a psychotic thug. 

 

Which is too bad. I think that's probably the root of my disappointment with DAI. I never expected it to be another story where a character was thrust into an accidental hero role. The whole idea of an Inquisition had proactive potential written all over it. Or at worst, only reactive to the events of DA2/Asunder. But those were made irrelevant and Corypheus stepped in.

 

There should have never even been a villain. The world itself could be have been the "villain", with the player the proactive problem solver.


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#58
malloc

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TOEE did evil playthroughs right.



#59
In Exile

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Which is too bad. I think that's probably the root of my disappointment with DAI. I never expected it to be another story where a character was thrust into an accidental hero role. The whole idea of an Inquisition had proactive potential written all over it. Or at worst, only reactive to the events of DA2/Asunder. But those were made irrelevant and Corypheus stepped in.

 

There should have never even been a villain. The world itself could be have been the "villain", with the player the proactive problem solver.

 

RPGs can't handle proactive problem solvers. It goes against the grain of design, because you can't really offer a satisfying memo of options to a proactive character. That's why all RPGs always force you into being reactive, and always cut away any kind of independent, creative choice.

 

The rare example that comes to mind is DA:O's werewolf option, which is entirely something the (ruthless, evil) PC comes up with, and it takes some doing to get the werewolves onside with it. 



#60
straykat

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RPGs can't handle proactive problem solvers. It goes against the grain of design, because you can't really offer a satisfying memo of options to a proactive character. That's why all RPGs always force you into being reactive, and always cut away any kind of independent, creative choice.

 

The rare example that comes to mind is DA:O's werewolf option, which is entirely something the (ruthless, evil) PC comes up with, and it takes some doing to get the werewolves onside with it. 

 

It can be done, but I doubt you could ever be a "villain" in it. The results would mostly be heroic or productive in one way or another.. the proactivity would just be in the approach and how you built your power in an problem area. So you wouldn't have to worry about widely diverging outcomes (like a villain path). You don't even do that anyways, as it is.



#61
Helios969

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Playing the bad "guy?"  Pretty sure that was the green ending in ME3.  I mean altering the fabric of all life in the galaxy is pretty f*cked up.



#62
PlatonicWaffles

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I mean I guess we kind of are. We're invading a galaxy that isn't ours and probably already has galactic civilisation to colonise without permission.


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#63
SNascimento

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Just for the record, I believe the two Bioware games that handled evil the best were KoTOR and Jade Empire. 



#64
straykat

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Just for the record, I believe the two Bioware games that handled evil the best were KoTOR and Jade Empire. 

 

As far as the actual playing experience, I had fun with that. That's how originally played Kotor.

 

It just kind of puttered out and went nowhere, as far results go. But I had fun while it lasted.



#65
Linkenski

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I don't wanna be the bad guy. That means the story ends with the hero killing me or that my character shoots himself in the head.



#66
ZipZap2000

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I don't wanna be the bad guy. That means the story ends with the hero killing me or that my character shoots himself in the head.


You've mistaken the bad guy for the hero of ferelden and the saviour of the citadel.

#67
straykat

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You've mistaken the bad guy for the hero of ferelden and the saviour of the citadel.

 

Savior of the Citadel? Who's that? CloneShep? ;)



#68
JasonPogo

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Americans seem to think that only their natives were oppressed and slaughtered. And that only the countries who colonised the Americas did it.

Believe it or not others were actually worse. Maybe not as bad as the British but you get me.

The perch that country has sat itself on on wedged so far up a Batarians butt they cant see the light anymore I swear.

 

Ah yes how silly of me to use an example that is widely known and accessible.  It must be me glorifying how horrible my nation was long before my ancestors even thought about coming to live here.



#69
ZipZap2000

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Ah yes how silly of me to use an example that is widely known and accessible. It must be me glorifying how horrible my nation was long before my ancestors even thought about coming to live here.


Your guilt does nothing to replace the blood soaked into the soil, elf. Your people will pay, blood will be spilled for the blood we lost and the last thing the Elves hear will be the sound of the Protheans sending them to their graves.
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#70
ZipZap2000

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Savior of the Citadel? Who's that? CloneShep? ;)


I heard he works in a bar now.

#71
In Exile

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Ah yes how silly of me to use an example that is widely known and accessible.  It must be me glorifying how horrible my nation was long before my ancestors even thought about coming to live here.

 

It's good of you to admit it, at least?



#72
straykat

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Everyone has displaced someone, sadly. Native Americans are just fresh in people's minds. It's an easy example to draw upon.



#73
Prince Enigmatic

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The perch that country has sat itself on on wedged so far up a Batarians butt they cant see the light anymore I swear.

 

Are you talking about Britain here?

 

If that is the case, and as someone from Britain myself, I agree 100%. 

 

Kudos to a human antagonist who cannot see the hypocrisy in their actions of invading planets that are home to other species.



#74
ZipZap2000

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Everyone has displaced someone, sadly. Native Americans are just fresh in people's minds. It's an easy example to draw upon.


No it isn't.

You aren't even talking about a single event against a single race. But several long term genocides against several races and hundreds of individual nations.

Fergin Elves!

#75
straykat

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No it isn't.

You aren't even talking about a single event against a single race. But several long term genocides against several races and hundreds of individual nations.

Fergin Elves!

 

I never said it was a single race. I'm just saying the Americas are the latest in a series of similar stories. History is built upon some idea of conquest or displacement.

 

It's easier to draw upon than, say, the Mongols or the Norman conquest of England. That doesn't even mean anything to most people.


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