291 réponses à ce sujet

[Fallen_silver]

Just think about it.  we are an invading species that is not native to this part of the galaxy.  We will need to take and colonize inhabitable planets that the species that are already living there will need/want.  We are the parasite taking over that witch is not ours.   It would just e great if the incorporate the other side of the story and make us look and feel like the jerks we are.  In Andromeda we are the British/Spanish/French and the local aliens are the Native Americans.  It would make for a fun and interesting story.  Not just us being the great white hero that saves all mankind yet again.

 

I think that would be good. Plus the plot twist being that you didn't know what you were doing was the wrong. Tell you to have a fight with an enemy that causes you to see the error in your actions. So, for example, you get separated from your team and it's just you with the adversary that you once thought was an enemy. Who now shows you what you have done giving you the real moral choice of evil being that you forget what you saw and continue on your path or good were you fix what you have done or grey were in you work with them to forge a path together both your team and the aliens you have harmed. Or even better on your team is a character who is the one pushing you to do the action their company wants. Aka a Miranda character who is not just a barbie character but someone who looks and feels like a good person tell the "oh no what have I done moment" were masks off and I'm the bad guy and this was all you. So the it brakes your character causing even more RPG moments and even team drama. Also, plz no rainbow endings I want three different endings One good, one bad, and one grey with small difference depending one some actions you took. 

 

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Fallen

[Erstus]

The bar for even being a bad guy in this setting has to be pretty low. Err.. or is it "pretty high"? I'm confused. Even Control Renegade Shep is admired are some level, but to me, they're only a hair away from Reaper Stalin.
 
A bad guy would have to be outright malicious against aliens. Like a Sgt Barnes from Platoon. Killing cripples and little kids. Do people really want to play that? It's fucked up.
 

Yes. Yes I would

[CronoDragoon]

What about SWTOR? Isn't Empire the more popular side in that game? Imperial Agent, Sith Warrior & Inquisitor had the best class stories and it proves that Bioware is very capable of making great stories with us playing the villain.

 

The only thing I didn't like was that you couldn't switch sides... same with original ME trilogy. It would've been great if you could've sided with the Cerberus instead of the Alliance in ME3.

 

You can in Imperial Agent, which is another reason that story rocks. Imperial Agent becomes your cover but you secretly are a Republic spy.

[Inkvisiittori]

You can in Imperial Agent, which is another reason that story rocks. Imperial Agent becomes your cover but you secretly are a Republic spy.

 

Hah, never! My Imperial Agent was always loyal to Jadus.

 

I would have loved to be able to switch sides with my Jedi Knight... after saving the Galaxy all she got was the title of honorary general! What an insult. 

[CronoDragoon]

Hah, never! My Imperial Agent was always loyal to Jadus.

 

You poor soul. Space Batman loyal to neither side is the true way to end Imperial Agent.

[straykat]

Yes. Yes I would

 

I don't even know any Vietnam vets who would.

 

I mean, it's a pretty low standard these days even among warriors. Unless you're one of those dumbshits who join ISIS or something. Adventure! Conquest! See the world! Kill little girls!

[AlanC9]

I agree, but I don't know if they actually set out to do that. I think they just rely on a simplistic formula. Good, evil, something something Ancient Past/Artifacts, etc.. If they just got away from the formula, the maturity would step in. It happened with DA2. The enemies were not monsters, for the most part. Not even the Qunari really, despite their radical look. The Arishok thought he was a do-gooder, bringing equality and justice to Kirkwall. Meredith and Orsino did too, but they became monstrous only later.

Maybe the Arishok was right and Hawke was the villain?

[straykat]

Maybe the Arishok was right and Hawke was the villain?

 

Well, I don't think so. I'd take even angry Trailer Blood Mage Hawke over the Qunari.

 

It's the principle of the matter, I guess. I'm too libertarian to think he's truly "good". I admire Qunari justice, but I'm thinking longterm.

 

But the fact that it's not easy to answer is what makes it's pretty cool. It's not simplistic good vs evil at least.

[9TailsFox]

You poor soul. Space Batman loyal to neither side is the true way to end Imperial Agent.

[Khrystyn]

Generally speaking, DA:I ....  demonstrated BW can't seem to get rid of the old good/bad divide -  that we are the good guys that must save the world from certain doom and this is reinforced by the aesthetic of our enemies who are ugly, unreasonable and entirely alien to our understanding. This is a childish attempt in portraying conflict. BW should go that extra mile to make the entire notion of good or bad purely subjective to the different actors point of view. Both us and our adversaries should act for what is to be perceived our vital interests. We aren't trying to save the world/galaxy and our adversaries DON'T want to destroy everything. We have different points of view and interests therefore we end up in conflict. We will define them evil as much as they will do with us. The game should treat our adversaries fairly and make their motives logic and reasonable as much as ours albeit opposed and mutually exclusive.No one is good or bad in  and both our (us and the enemies) motives are based on reasonable ideas.  A conflict based on these premises will show that BW managed to evolve from the childish concept of absolute good vs absolute evil. Our world isn't made of absolutes but conflicting interests.

 

My take on what you are advocating for, to sum up, is a story/plot that involves self-interest versus self-interest, and these two are in conflict and both have relatively equal legitimacy - neither side is totally good or totally bad. And that this paradigm is more mature, whereas good vs. evil plots are childish. I do agree with you that propaganda perverts the facts, and can overly simplify the aggressive use of force as a G v. E paradigm. In real life that perversion of facts has caused horrific tragedies and loss of life.

 

I'm going to harp on your branding of BW and the G vs. E narrative as 'childish'.  Per se, there is nothing 'childish' about the classic G vs. E conflict. Literature, both fiction and non-fiction, has wonderful examples of complex and mature narratives that involve G v. Evil. Protecting lives is not morally equivalent to those who seek to destroy lives. Good vs. evil situations really exist when the aggressive use of force against others involves the wanton and indiscriminate murder and killing of innocent people. Those are not 'childish' plots.

 

What can make them childish is the way it is written. The Grimm Brother's Fairy Tales are 'childish'; whereas the ME Trilogy stories are mature and adult food for thought (in the realm of sci-fi fantasy). Isaac Asimov's I, Robot is a mature investigation of humanity vs. their synthetic technology creations, most especially when the technology gives an A.I. the power to decide for it's own reasons that it will attack its creators. Where as a society are we going when our ability to create something, and such foolhardiness, is far beyond our so-called maturity to anticipate its resulting consequences? This is one of several classic and appropriately mature subjects to explore; it's not childish per se.

 

What makes a story childish, in my view, is the way the story is written, whether it is simplistic or cleverly complex, and the purpose or nature of the subject being written about. The Brothers Grimm wrote fanciful fairy tales directed at children, as are Aesop's Fables, but within them can be mature stories with a pointed lesson for grown-ups - if you are actually listening to what you are reading to your children.

 

I'm trying to think of good examples that would meet your criteria of a ' mature' plot (the opposite of childish as you see it) where both sides are neither totally good nor totally bad. At the moment, the stories that might fit your viewpoint is Conservative and Liberal advocacy, Domestic Car Companies vs. Imports, Tech Companies that are vying for market share, etc.

 

If you would post 5 or so story ideas that you are describing, I'll like to read it. Can you do this?

[Obliviousmiss]

I think Renegade is about as "bad" as we're going to get. 

 

I loved being evil in Infamous: Second Son. I genuinely had a guilty conscience afterwards. 

[Onewomanarmy]

^ Me too.  I'd love to be able to play as the bad guy again, really be able to show off my bad side on some punks xD

[9TailsFox]

I think Renegade is about as "bad" as we're going to get. 

 

I loved being evil in Infamous: Second Son. I genuinely had a guilty conscience afterwards. 

Well Bioware can make Evil character in swtor. Poor Vette 

swtor did it much better you can be saint neutral or evil. Not like in mass effect only saint or jerk.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well Bioware can make Evil character in swtor. Poor Vette 

swtor did it much better you can be saint neutral or evil. Not like in mass effect only saint or jerk.

 

Yeah... but if you play the Sith Warrior as 100% evil, you chose the least effective way. It's just evil for the lulz, you're missing out on quite a lot. Balanced is the way to go for all the Imp chars. ^^

[Obliviousmiss]

Well Bioware can make Evil character in swtor. Poor Vette 

swtor did it much better you can be saint neutral or evil. Not like in mass effect only saint or jerk.

 

I wish SWOTR was on consoles  

[Onewomanarmy]

Well Bioware can make Evil character in swtor. Poor Vette 

swtor did it much better you can be saint neutral or evil. Not like in mass effect only saint or jerk.

 

Has there been no talk at all for this to ever make it to consoles, do you know?

[DaemionMoadrin]

I wish SWOTR was on consoles

 

How would you control it? Have you seen the quickbars? How would you handle all the menus? You'd need a keyboard and mouse or you wouldn't be able to make it off the starter planet.

 

[Hadeedak]

You poor soul. Space Batman loyal to neither side is the true way to end Imperial Agent.

 

Hey hey hey. I quite liked the good soldier giving his data to the Sith.

 

Though I did roll another agent and Batman. I meant to defect, but I goofed. I do need another healer for PvP though.... Hmmmm...

 

Stupid fun agent story. Making me play classes that can't tank.

[9TailsFox]

Has there been no talk at all for this to ever make it to consoles, do you know?

 

 

How would you control it? Have you seen the quickbars? How would you handle all the menus? You'd need a keyboard and mouse or you wouldn't be able to make it off the starter planet.

I don't think so. And DaemionMoadrin good point I need 3 skill bars for all my skills, it's impossible to play without a mouse. But if they wanted they may think something. You mainly use like 6 attack skills and 4-5 utility.

[Onewomanarmy]

I don't think so. And DaemionMoadrin good point I need 3 skill bars for all my skills, it's impossible to play without a mouse. But if they wanted they may think something. You mainly use like 6 attack skills and 4-5 utility.

 

Ahh okay, It's a shame since I'm a console gamer and this game looks so awesome.

[Bruno Hslaw]

Ahh okay, It's a shame since I'm a console gamer and this game looks so awesome.

Played it on PC was actually quite disappointing. Enjoyed KOTOR more actually, as this was far to much go to a and collect item 1. Played most classes,good and badyet was not that impressed.

[9TailsFox]

Ahh okay, It's a shame since I'm a console gamer and this game looks so awesome.

It is and it have 8 class all have different story + each planet story and you class/race sometimes affect dialogue. And light side/dark side. you can be nice saint saving everyone or psychopat killing and torturing everyone or something in between. Or be smartass smuggler Ok I am sorry I stop, game is great.

[Onewomanarmy]

It is and it have 8 class all have different story + each planet story and you class/race sometimes affect dialogue. And light side/dark side. you can be nice saint saving everyone or psychopat killing and torturing everyone or something in between. Or be smartass smuggler Ok I am sorry I stop, game is great.

 

I'm truly considering to become a pc gamer on the side because of games like this, I'm missing out on great games otherwise and it's killing me

[Bruno Hslaw]

All that BS about being KOTOR 3 etc was a lie. It was repetitive as most planets were the starting point for several classes. Meaning mostly playing the same quests over and over with slightest tweeks. I literally would sooner they just did a proper KOTOR 3. Pushing anything from that game into MEA would put me off.

[Onewomanarmy]

Hmmmmm....