180 réponses à ce sujet

[mrjack]

The thing is: As laymen customers, we'll never know for certain how every part of a game is funded and which DLCs *could* (and probably should) have been in the main game at no extra cost. Even with things like From Ashes which was released Day 1,  we can't know for sure that it wasn't a concept thought up late in the dev cycle and that BW had to go to EA and ask for more money to include it on the understanding that we are charged extra for it.

 

We also can't know how much a game relies on back-end sales of additional content (DLC and MP consumables) to remain financially viable. It's the same with movie merchandising. To justify spending 200 million dollars to make The Force Awakens, you have to demonstrate that you can make that back, not just in box office sales but in action figures, T-shirts and whatever other crap people buy.

 

DLC is normally overpriced in my opinion but I don't normally mind paying for it because I believe it makes the main game better. The more money a game makes, the higher the budget for the next instalment. Basically, the customers who purchase the DLC are paying to make the game better for everyone. I only buy DLC for games I really love but I still benefit when that DLC sells well even if I didn't purchase it.

 

All that being said, the idea of pre-order exclusive bonuses (in the case of the main game) and discounts (in the case of Season Passes) are an awful practice. It encourages people to spend money before they can make an informed decision about the value of the product. Pre-ordering should never be mandatory to access content or receive a substantial discount. I have enough disposable income (not rich!) that it isn't a huge deal for me but people with limited incomes or families to support are forced to gamble on spending less now and risk getting a substandard product; or significantly more later. Yes, there are average people out there that work hard and earn a decent living but still can't afford to blow $50 dollars like it was nothing.

 

Another thing I loathe is in-game advertising for additional content. It's obnoxious beyond measure. I hate it so much that it stops me from buying games I would probably enjoy. I'm looking at you, Ubisoft.

[Fiery Phoenix]

BioWare doesn't do season passes. I'm hoping that's still so.

[von uber]

What does that have to be with being the "male you are".

Well some people stand in the darkness, afraid to step into the light.
Some people need to have some body with the edge of surrender insight

[AlanC9]

 .... but people with limited incomes or families to support are forced to gamble on spending less now and risk getting a substandard product; or significantly more later.

Well, they also still have the options of spending even less by waiting until even later, or soending less by only buying some or none of the DLCs.

[thepiebaker]

The thing is: As laymen customers, we'll never know for certain how every part of a game is funded and which DLCs *could* (and probably should) have been in the main game at no extra cost. Even with things like From Ashes which was released Day 1, we can't know for sure that it wasn't a concept thought up late in the dev cycle and that BW had to go to EA and ask for more money to include it on the understanding that we are charged extra for it.

We also can't know how much a game relies on back-end sales of additional content (DLC and MP consumables) to remain financially viable. It's the same with movie merchandising. To justify spending 200 million dollars to make The Force Awakens, you have to demonstrate that you can make that back, not just in box office sales but in action figures, T-shirts and whatever other crap people buy.

DLC is normally overpriced in my opinion but I don't normally mind paying for it because I believe it makes the main game better. The more money a game makes, the higher the budget for the next instalment. Basically, the customers who purchase the DLC are paying to make the game better for everyone. I only buy DLC for games I really love but I still benefit when that DLC sells well even if I didn't purchase it.

All that being said, the idea of pre-order exclusive bonuses (in the case of the main game) and discounts (in the case of Season Passes) are an awful practice. It encourages people to spend money before they can make an informed decision about the value of the product. Pre-ordering should never be mandatory to access content or receive a substantial discount. I have enough disposable income (not rich!) that it isn't a huge deal for me but people with limited incomes or families to support are forced to gamble on spending less now and risk getting a substandard product; or significantly more later. Yes, there are average people out there that work hard and earn a decent living but still can't afford to blow $50 dollars like it was nothing.

Another thing I loathe is in-game advertising for additional content. It's obnoxious beyond measure. I hate it so much that it stops me from buying games I would probably enjoy. I'm looking at you, Ubisoft.

With javik that was bundled in with the collectors edition since they announced the contents. However they may not have even started on it beyond the conception stage. Eventually they decided to provide it to the rest of the community as day 1 dlc as it takes at least a month sometimes 3 or rare cases 6 where the game is "finished" but has to go through rigorous testing that the developers can't work on the game beyond patches and dlc prior to release day.

Pre-order content, usually, is at the end meaningless. With the rare exceptions it's usually a costume/skin something at the end meaningless. While bioware did give armor and weapons out they were usually sub par after a point of progression. (The armor in ME2 and 3 have such a niche strategy around them and soon are outclassed by the modular armor, the black storm in ME2 is useless on enemies with sheild/barrier/armor and therefore useless on higher difficulties) the weapons for ME3 were rereleased in dlc (sans the Chakra launcher which was fun for a bit but again sub parking even on mars)

[rocklikeafool]

Its one thing when a trusted dev like CDPR does it because I believe in them and their situation's unique.

But it's NOT unique...

 

 

 

but people with limited incomes or families to support are forced to gamble on spending less now and risk getting a substandard product; or significantly more later. 

If the choice is between, "Do I buy this game" or "Do I buy food"...anyone who buys the game has bigger f*cking issues than what's being discussed here.

[LPPrince]

 

But it's NOT unique...

 

Name another developer that is in CDPR's exact situation. Company makeup, size, background, history, etc etc.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

The only developer I can think of who could really be compared to CDPR is Valve, but we all know Valve doesn't make games anymore so. And it's not a great comparison in the first place.

[Linkenski]

Nothing should ever have a season pass.
 

 
I have a dream...
 
I have a dream that games will some day ship in a complete state with no more additions. When a game releases it is finished and whatever a developer will regret not getting done, they'll just not get done. No day one patches, no day one DLC, no DLC and no season-passes. We're left with what we get, just as it used to be. We humans have sinned for we have broken the promise of good DLC by continuing to exploit their use. I dream, that one day, this will stop and developers will become nice again, just like they used to be before they were given the misdeed of DLC to use however they pleased.

[rocklikeafool]

Name another developer that is in CDPR's exact situation. Company makeup, size, background, history, etc etc.

Every PC developer back in the '90s.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Every PC developer back in the '90s.

I wasn't aware it was still the 90's. Any tips for the new Sonic game? Or are you too busy with Rocco's Modern Life?

[katamuro]

No

[rocklikeafool]

I wasn't aware it was still the 90's. Any tips for the new Sonic game? Or are you too busy with Rocco's Modern Life?

I wasn't aware that pointing out the fact that most major gaming studios in the '90s ended up with a situation similar to CD Project Red's situation now would result in asinine comments. Oh, wait...I fully expected that. After all, it's not like Bioware circa 2001 wasn't pretty much comparable to CDPR.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

I wasn't aware that pointing out the fact that most major gaming studios in the '90s ended up with a situation similar to CD Project Red's situation now would result in asinine comments. Oh, wait...I fully expected that. After all, it's not like Bioware circa 2001 wasn't pretty much comparable to CDPR.

Prince said, and I quote, "Name another developer that is in CDPR's exact situation". Present tense. Might want to work on that reading comprehension, bud.

[rocklikeafool]

Prince said, and I quote, "Name another developer that is in CDPR's exact situation". Present tense. Might want to work on that reading comprehension, bud.

No, you might want to work on yours. He was implying that CDProjectRed is some special cupcake. I debunked that. You're being an idiot with semantics. This summary brought to you by a realist.

 

Edit:
It's silly that you typed "and I quote", when we have this cool quote forum thingy and have had it for years...

[goishen]

What does that have to be with being the "male you are".

 

 

No straight guy looked at Miranda and said "Yuck, that's distasteful.  Put some clothes on.  Sheesh! My virgin eyes!" until the logical part of his brain kicked in and he finally figured out that women are playing the game and women in game need to have the same armor as the guys.  For some people it happened sooner than others.  For some people it happened almost instantly, for others it took some time.  For others, they still don't have it. 

 

What I'm talking about here is male fantasy and the possibility of self realization of that fantasy. 

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

No, you might want to work on yours. He was implying that CDProjectRed is some special cupcake. I debunked that. You're being an idiot with semantics. This summary brought to you by a realist.

You've taken his statement out of context. He was obviously referring to the current climate of game development, which I'm sure you'll agree is quite different than it was in the 90's. What was normal then is not normal now.

[SnakeCode]

Should it? No.

 

Will it? Probably not, Bioware's stand alone DLC is exorbitantly priced, I don't think they like letting anyone purchase any of it on the cheap, even if it's by a tiny amount.

[mrjack]

Well, they also still have the options of spending even less by waiting until even later, or soending less by only buying some or none of the DLCs.

 
DLC tends to hold it's price until the GOTY or Ultimate Edition so what you're suggesting is holding out for at least a year after the game releases which is a pretty big ask.
 

If the choice is between, "Do I buy this game" or "Do I buy food"...anyone who buys the game has bigger f*cking issues than what's being discussed here.

You don't have to be living hand-to-mouth to be in a situation where every penny counts. I had to pay for university myself and support myself for 4 years when I couldn't earn a full time wage. I wasn't starving but I couldn't throw money around like it was nothing.

There's always something you could be spending your money on. As far as entertainment goes, video games are reasonably good value for money (compared to eating out or going to a bar) but you'd feel crappy if you spent the money and didn't even enjoy what you spent it on.

I think this is just a case of some people not really knowing the value of money because they never had to. $50 dollars isn't a lot to me but there was a time when it was and for many people, it still is.

[Rahmiel]

Personally, I don't care.  I would expect them to, because EA and the market are heading that way.

 

I'd buy it simply because I'm sold on the ME franchise.  It's everything I love and care about.  In fact, I never bought dlc for any game, except I *had* to buy Bring Down the Sky for Mass Effect.  Mass Effect, itself, sold me on the concept of dlc.

 

You see people speaking about CDPR and TW3.  I don't see them as any different than BW and ME.  It's fine if people praise one company above another, that's their opinion.  But to objectively state that one company or game is worthy of a season pass and another is not.. ulgh.

 

If there's a market for it, there'll be one.  And you, as a consumer, do not have to purchase one.  It's not like you need the season pass in order to purchase dlc.  BW's history in this area makes me say there will not be one.  But markets, and consumer appetites change in time.

[Fortlowe]

Borderlands 2's season pass is still the gold standard for such an offering in my book because of the enormous amount of content it included at a fair price. I feel that had the content from the ME sequels been packaged in season passes, I would have had a similar opinion. The problem with that is a situation like Destiny. A season pass so skimpy, you're expected to purchase even more content to finally have the whole game.

Seeing as Borderlands appears to be the exception and not the rule, I'd rather not risk a season pass situation with ME. Obviously not a call I or any of us will have a hand in making, but I think once the to cost for the game gets over $100, the DLC plan, however it's structured, gets a little dicey for both devs and consumers.

[von uber]

No straight guy looked at Miranda and said "Yuck, that's distasteful.  Put some clothes on.  Sheesh! My virgin eyes!" until the logical part of his brain kicked in and he finally figured out that women are playing the game and women in game need to have the same armor as the guys.  For some people it happened sooner than others.  For some people it happened almost instantly, for others it took some time.  For others, they still don't have it. 

 

What I'm talking about here is male fantasy and the possibility of self realization of that fantasy. 

 

Blimey, stop the press - we've finally found the spokesman for every single straight guy in the world!

My god, but it took a while.

[Pasquale1234]

No straight guy looked at Miranda and said "Yuck, that's distasteful.  Put some clothes on.  Sheesh! My virgin eyes!" until the logical part of his brain kicked in and he finally figured out that women are playing the game and women in game need to have the same armor as the guys.  For some people it happened sooner than others.  For some people it happened almost instantly, for others it took some time.  For others, they still don't have it. 
 
What I'm talking about here is male fantasy and the possibility of self realization of that fantasy.

Camel-toe and wedgie-wear are directly related to male fantasy realization? Good to know.

Some people just find it gross.

[SlottsMachine]

Borderlands 2's season pass is still the gold standard for such an offering in my book because of the enormous amount of content it included at a fair price. I feel that had the content from the ME sequels been packaged in season passes, I would have had a similar opinion. The problem with that is a situation like Destiny. A season pass so skimpy, you're expected to purchase even more content to finally have the whole game.

Seeing as Borderlands appears to be the exception and not the rule, I'd rather not risk a season pass situation with ME. Obviously not a call I or any of us will have a hand in making, but I think once the to cost for the game gets over $100, the DLC plan, however it's structured, gets a little dicey for both devs and consumers.

 

Yeah, and if I recall Borderlands has always been good with having regular sales periods. Well maybe that's just a 2K thing. 

[LinksOcarina]

Name another developer that is in CDPR's exact situation. Company makeup, size, background, history, etc etc.

 

Valve, in a lot of ways CDPR more or less struck lightning in a niche Valve was slow to fill, nostalgic PC players thanks to GOG.