That is because it was mage Inquistor that didn't need an explanation on what is tranquil.In other cases you ask him about tranquility ,he points then lack strength of will as reason.
Good catch. Though that still seems like an awkward way of saying "strength of will" to a mage Inquisitor.
To be fair, back in DAO and even DA2, the whole point of possesion was to get out of the fade...so by the time DAI rolls around they can just come through rifts. But yeah...and abominations were supposed to be rare, and Tranquils were really emotionless and creepy....
Abominations actually anger me. I wanted the abominations from The Broken Circle to be the standard. A new evil faction of demons that believed symbiosis between mages and demons was an evolution of both into a supreme race of beings.
I wanted to see Pre-Breach abominations help demons that were pouring out of the Fade by hunting down packs of mages...creating cults that embrace this symbiosis... or just dragging them off to force the situation and then for those abominations to actually become a viable faction all their own.
BUT... we got Inky, Pinky, Blinky and Clyde falling through the rifts... and we got to play PacMan instead while the Mage/Templar issue was a footnote and mages have been painfully altered to be mutants.
Good catch. Though that still seems like an awkward way of saying "strength of will" to a mage Inquisitor.
I would say it still fits, as most likely strong willpower would be necessary for circle to consider you a talened mage.
I would say it still fits, as most likely strong willpower would be necessary for circle to consider you a talened mage.
No, it certainly still fits. It's just not the way I'd put it if "strong willpower" is what we're talking about.
To be fair, back in DAO and even DA2, the whole point of possesion was to get out of the fade...so by the time DAI rolls around they can just come through rifts. But yeah...and abominations were supposed to be rare, and Tranquils were really emotionless and creepy....
The point of Possession was to experience life. Even before the Breach Demons were capable of leaving the Fade and when they did attempted to Possess anything they perceived as being alive. Demons can't tell the difference between life and a rock which is why we end up with Walking Corpses and Sylvans. This did not change in Inquisition. The Breach allowed more demons through than usual but their goals were the same which is why we see so many Undead suddenly appear in places like Crestwood.
Something I'd really like to see at some point (perhaps during the next game) is a demon who possessed a mage, but wasn't strong enough to manifest as an abomination so he just watches humans to learn how they act and eventually see that there's not just the negative emotions he was distorted by. A demon who is actively aware that he is a demon, and can be helped by the protagonist to let go of the mage he possessed, only to learn that he is unable to do so because the mage's conscious is gone, and tries to atone for what he's done.
Then again, Bioware probably wouldn't do it, because there are some parallels to Cole...
Something I'd really like to see at some point (perhaps during the next game) is a demon who possessed a mage, but wasn't strong enough to manifest as an abomination so he just watches humans to learn how they act and eventually see that there's not just the negative emotions he was distorted by. A demon who is actively aware that he is a demon, and can be helped by the protagonist to let go of the mage he possessed, only to learn that he is unable to do so because the mage's conscious is gone, and tries to atone for what he's done.
Then again, Bioware probably wouldn't do it, because there are some parallels to Cole...
That, and I don't know that the demon utterly removing the mage's mind, or the demon being able to possess a mage but not able to reshape him, are possible. Much less any combination of the two.
That, and I don't know that the demon utterly removing the mage's mind, or the demon being able to possess a mage but not able to reshape him, are possible. Much less any combination of the two.
Well, in DA:O, The Broken Circle, you have Niall, who had been held in the fade by sloth for some undertemined amount of time, and had the life sucked out of him. Maybe it works on a smaller scale, if the demon is in the Fade: the longer it inhabits a host body, the more of the host's soul it consumes.
Also in DA:O, we had the quest with Conner and the demon taking control every so often, and then Conner reasserting himself. They made it seem like those moments of Conner in charge were becoming more rare, so that could be used as a template.
Well, in DA:O, The Broken Circle, you have Niall, who had been held in the fade by sloth for some undertemined amount of time, and had the life sucked out of him. Maybe it works on a smaller scale, if the demon is in the Fade: the longer it inhabits a host body, the more of the host's soul it consumes.
Also in DA:O, we had the quest with Conner and the demon taking control every so often, and then Conner reasserting himself. They made it seem like those moments of Conner in charge were becoming more rare, so that could be used as a template.
The Sloth demon isn't possessing Niall, though. It's eating him. Deliberately, and from outside his body. The same seems to be true of the Templar that gets caught by the desire demon right outside the room we find Niall in. Demons in this setting seem to either drain people or possess them.
Connor's consciousness is alive under all of that, though. It's altered by the experience, but still there. He can even try to fight the demon while it's possessing him, and judging by his cameo in Inquisition most of the (negative) effect the experience has had on him is a serious case of depression.
And I have no idea what "possessing someone, but not being strong enough to become an abomination" even means. An abomination is a possessed mage. If a demon is not strong enough to be one, it can't possess the mage at all.
Sometimes I try to think what class I would be in Thedas and at first I would go -"I want to be a mage, they can do magic and they study a lot, which I do."
Then I look deeper and I realize that I would make a bad mage because I can't even stop myself from eating unhealthy delicious food even though I promised myself I will stop doing that. If I can't even resist food, what chance do I have against sexually enticing Desire Demons ? I mean, I can handle the other demons because they look like hideous crap but Desire Demons ? That will be hard to resist. Besides, if you are careless with magic, it will backfire on you and you would be screwed and I am careless in mathematics even though I am good at it. Can you imagine being carless with a fireball spell ?
That is why I end up choosing to be an archer rogue instead. I have stolen plenty of things IRL, whenever I fight I have fought dirty (screw honor), if I get careless it would just result in a bowstring hurting my arm or chest and I can use stealth to run away when things go FUBAR.
There is a difference. The price of, say, eating unhealthy food is a risk that increases over time. Once in a while won't do much harm at all. A better example would be having sex with someone you know has AIDS. I can't speak for everyone, but I think I'd not find it hard to resist that, no matter how enticing the prospect may appear.
Unless, of course, I were caught up in my desire to the point where my rational faculties fail me. I have experienced such moments, but they've been very rare, and I'd appreciate some mental training to stay sane in such situations even in RL. Also, I find the kind of self-awareness a mage must ultimately possess a very desirable trait. It's one reason why I prefer playing a mageborn in DA games. The main reason, though, is that a mage's powers are of a kind that increases their individual autonomy, and for the same reason, I'd never want to depend on a demon's power in the first place. In the end and with some training, I think i might be a reasonably good mage.
There is a difference. The price of, say, eating unhealthy food is a risk that increases over time. Once in a while won't do much harm at all. A better example would be having sex with someone you know has AIDS. I can't speak for everyone, but I think I'd not find it hard to resist that, no matter how enticing the prospect may appear.
Unless, of course, I were caught up in my desire to the point where my rational faculties fail me. I have experienced such moments, but they've been very rare, and I'd appreciate some mental training to stay sane in such situations even in RL. Also, I find the kind of self-awareness a mage must ultimately possess a very desirable trait. It's one reason why I prefer playing a mageborn in DA games. The main reason, though, is that a mage's powers are of a kind that increases their individual autonomy, and for the same reason, I'd never want to depend on a demon's power in the first place. In the end and with some training, I think i might be a reasonably good mage.
Actually I will eat unhealthy food, feel guilty about it, then eat healthy food in the next meal course, remember about the delicious unhealthy food and the whole thing repeats ad infinitum. It also doesn't help that my favorite food is chicken and rice and cheap healthy chicken is not easy to obtain here.
In that case, then I don't have to worry since I would never f*ck someone with an STD, no matter how sexually attractive or sexually skilled they are. I also don't drink or smoke, despite the number of times I was offered a cigar or a beer.
But Desire Demons have no STDs though...
Unless, of course, I were caught up in my desire to the point where my rational faculties fail me. I have experienced such moments, but they've been very rare, and I'd appreciate some mental training to stay sane in such situations even in RL. Also, I find the kind of self-awareness a mage must ultimately possess a very desirable trait. It's one reason why I prefer playing a mageborn in DA games. The main reason, though, is that a mage's powers are of a kind that increases their individual autonomy, and for the same reason, I'd never want to depend on a demon's power in the first place. In the end and with some training, I think i might be a reasonably good mage.
The idea is that demons know exactly how to cause your rational faculties to fail you. Have you noticed how non-possessed demon victims tend to get blank looks on their faces and speak in odd tones of voice? (Two examples being One-Eyed Jimmy and the Templar who'd been enslaved by the desire demon in Broken Circle?) That's because the demon is (metaphorically in these cases) inside the victim's head.
The idea is that demons know exactly how to cause your rational faculties to fail you. Have you noticed how non-possessed demon victims tend to get blank looks on their faces and speak in odd tones of voice? (Two examples being One-Eyed Jimmy and the Templar who'd been enslaved by the desire demon in Broken Circle?) That's because the demon is (metaphorically in these cases) inside the victim's head.
So demons are the ultimate trolls? 
They know where we're vulnerable, yes, but there is a defense against that: knowing that of yourself and preparing - just as you won't be taken in by trolls if you're aware of what's happening. Most mages seem to have few problems with demons, so it can't be that difficult to learn.
Most mages seem to have few problems with demons, so it can't be that difficult to learn.
You think so?
- Two Dalish clans (MotB with Imshael and Merryl's clan with Audacity). Zathrian's clan is under assault from Zathrian really.
- Zathrian on a technicality. I wouldn't say the Lady of the Forest was a problem on her own. But certainly not friendly.
- Wilhelm
- Anders on a technicality. I'm not sure how we can't say that Vengeance "wasn't" a problem.
- All the mages in the Ferelden Tower
- Connor
- Avernus
- Feynriel
- Mage Origin - which sets the bar with the infamous "True tests never end." line In my opinion - the DA lore for mages is all down hill after this moment.
- The Rivaini seers who are so accustomed to demons that they call them natural disasters.
- Didn't read it... but there's a blood mage in the Grey Warden novel that seems to have a hell of a time with demons.
Of course - most of this comes from DA:O. By the time DA:I comes around... mages are just bland mutants. All social justice... no "wizard".
*snip*
Of course - most of this comes from DA:O. By the time DA:I comes around... mages are just bland mutants. All social justice... no "wizard".
I actually made a thread explaining that mages in Thedas are not Wizards. Mages in Thedas are Sorcerers. Wizards do not exist in Thedas because you cannot just learn magic by just studying it, you have to have the gift in the first place.
@Bayonet Hipshot: Yes, I totally agree with you. But wizard means "wise-man" - and DA mages who act like wizards are FAR rarer than DA mages who get into trouble with demons.
Most DA mages are the dumbest casters I've ever encountered in fantasy (but right on par with the moral lunacy that comes from comic books)
@Bayonet Hipshot: Yes, I totally agree with you. But wizard means "wise-man" - and DA mages who act like wizards are FAR rarer than DA mages who get into trouble with demons.
Most DA mages are the dumbest casters I've ever encountered in fantasy (but right on par with the moral lunacy that comes from comic books)
To be fair, mages in Thedas are never required to be wise or intelligent, especially if you look at the attributes.
http://dragonage.wik...butes_(Origins)
http://dragonage.wik...s_(Inquisition)
The only attribute that governs intelligence and reason is Cunning and mages are not required to invest in them very much. Mages are expected to invest in Magic and Willpower, both of which have no influence on one's intelligence or reasoning ability or wisdom.
1) Willpower
2) Magic
3) Cunning
So the smart and the reasonable ones in Thedas are actually Rogues, not Mages. Additionally, in the comic books, its the non magical people (with the exception of Dr.Manhanttan and Reed Richards) who are the smart and reasonable ones.
@Bayonet Hipshot: Willpower alone would have been enough to really make mages interesting... but I don't believe that the creators have explored the concept of what real willpower is.
People with real willpower are intimidating - because they're not easily controlled by the same things that average people are. DA Mages are way too chaotic.
I'd say Solas and Wynne are the best examples... with Jowan and Connor being the worst and most everyone else falling on the lower spectrum of central.
NOTE: Willpower has nothing to do with morality or wisdom. I despise Solas... but his belief gives him a phenomenal level of willpower.
I wonder how or if in the next game Bioware will address the absence of abominations during DAI.
Maybe demons in DAI were too busy having fun with the derpy Orlesion Grey Spawn and jumping through the many tears in the Veil instead of messing with mages stressed out by the war.
It will seem odd if they discuss it a game late so maybe they are oddly deleting the DAO and DA2 mage abomination/demon problem by just hand waving that messing with the Veil fixed it. Does Thedas have the equivalent of a Noble Peace Prize? Corybits ended the mage vs templar war and potentially fixed the abomination problem which deserves accolades for his service to Thedas.
Great point that DA mages rely on willpower and not cunning/intelligence.
It's all about your emotional state, remember that spirits and demons embody concepts they come in contact with in the Fade.
If you are a noble mage with good intentions and strong determination, it's likely that you will attract benevolent spirits to aid in your hour of need.
However, if you feel negative emotions like rage, hubris, obsession or despair you will attract demons corresponding to those emotions.
The big difference between Circle Mages and other mages is that they live in an institution which considers magic to be inherently evil and chaotic.
Circle mages are indoctrinated to the idea that their magic is beyond their own control and that they need to be confined to prevent them from being possessed by demons.
Like Solas said, Andrastian mages from the South grow up under the belief that all communicating spirits are demons and that they must fear and reject everything that comes from the Fade.
That belief in itself creates fear, anxiety and insecurity which not only attract demons more easily but also twist the perception of the mage into seeing every spirit in the form of a demon.
If the mage grows in a more Fade friendly environment, chances are that they will be able to differentiate between demons and spirits far easier and that good spirits will help teach them how to defend themselves from the bad.
So far the percentage of mages being possessed by demons amongst Dalish, Chasinds, Avaar and Rivaini appears to be lower than that of circles which reinforces that an oppressive instituion does far more harm than good in preventing the spread of abominations.
@Blood Mage Reaver: So, do you think the Pride Demon from the Mage Origin was working for the Chantry?
@Sah291; So, you're saying that the Circle has control of the Fade like a simulation? That Valor, Rage, Sloth and Pride were all put there? That's not what the intro says. It says it (the Harrowing) draws a demon to you. The demon that was drawn to you was Rage - not Pride, Valor or Sloth. Those simply happened to be drawn there because you're a mage and tasty.
The "True tests never end." line defined magic on Thedas for me... and clearly it's been thrown out for social commentary. Not really the end of the world for me... just a loss of interest.
@Sah91: My point... is that they didn't coach the Pride demon to say what it did. What it said was not "Chantry propaganda." - for me, it's what being a mage was supposed to be about on Thedas.
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