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#76
Bayonet Hipshot

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Medhia Nox is right. The Chantry does not control demons. Those buffoons don't even understand magic and rely mostly on religious dogma to inform them when it comes to magic.

 

Mages simply draw the attention of Fade creatures. I believe Solas says that spirits wish to join the world of the living and a demon is that wish gone wrong. Well, a spirit's best chance to join the living is a mage since they are magically attuned. Its why Wynne and Anders became joined with Spirits instead of non-mages. Similarly, a demon would also seek out mages since they want to join the world of the living, except they wish to do it by coercion or by just killing you.


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#77
Sah291

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@Sah91:  My point... is that they didn't coach the Pride demon to say what it did.  What it said was not "Chantry propaganda." - for me, it's what being a mage was supposed to be about on Thedas.


Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah.

From the perspective of the Chantry, everything in the fade is an illusion meant to confuse you from the truth, and no spirits or demons there can be trusted. So that makes sense they would summon a pride demon who specializes in trickery in order to impress that upon you.

The Circle tricks the mage because they want to see if the mage will turn to a demon for help when faced with trickery and injustice. Hence the "true tests never end".

#78
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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I think that, from an in-game perspective, the tests in The Fade represent a good enough cross-section of the dangers of the Fade that we can wonder if the Circle didn't somehow manipulate events. We have a "benevolent" spirit who is nonetheless dangerous, a demon that wants to beat the crap out of the Future Warden and force his way in, and a demon that wants to trick his way in. Each represents a danger that the mage will always need to be on the lookout for, and gives the mage a chance to demonstrate that they're not totally helpless against these dangers.


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#79
Medhia_Nox

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@Riverdaleswhiteflash:  You have to remember that it's also an introduction of magic in this world.  

 

Books, movies, etc. do this all the time to their detriment.  They front load the main character into experiencing a series of seemingly unique circumstances that other characters in their world don't normally experience the same way. 

 

Because the game did not focus on mages... you cannot make a million trips to the Fade to see spirits... and the Black City... and Rage demons... and Sloth demons... and Pride demons... etc. etc.  

 

I like your last sentence... but I think it's gone from DA now.  The mages of DA:I are at the absolute peak of stress - with all barriers having fallen in their minds do to the survival aspects the real world is now throwing at them.  There should have been possessions and abominations all over Thedas. 

 

And... we are represented with demons as a mere inconvenience anyone can get rid of.  


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#80
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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@Riverdaleswhiteflash:  You have to remember that it's also an introduction of magic in this world.  

 

Books, movies, etc. do this all the time to their detriment.  They front load the main character into experiencing a series of seemingly unique circumstances that other characters in their world don't normally experience the same way. 

Yeah, but that's from an out-of-game perspective. In-game, it's a pretty big coincidence with no other explanation.

 

And I don't know if "seemingly unique" is the right way to put it, since we don't see other Harrowings. If we did know that other Harrowings aren't this comprehensive, I'd write this one off as a coincidence; if they're neither unable nor forbidden to arrange demons where the mages will land, you'd think they'd do a test like this one every time. But if we saw other Harrowings and they all showed the coincidences that made this one so comprehensive, I'd really start to wonder if the Circles weren't using otherwise-forbidden arts to test their students. As it is, I don't have anything to back this up apart from a hunch.

 

 

I like your last sentence... but I think it's gone from DA now.  The mages of DA:I are at the absolute peak of stress - with all barriers having fallen in their minds do to the survival aspects the real world is now throwing at them.  There should have been possessions and abominations all over Thedas. 

 

And... we are represented with demons as a mere inconvenience anyone can get rid of.  

The danger is alluded to several times. One of the Aequitarians you meet in the Hinterlands alludes to the danger while implying that she can handle it, Cullen notes it if you freely ally with the mages, and Cassandra mentions it at the start of Unfinished Business. It's not so much gone completely as its been relegated to "tell, don't show" territory.



#81
Blood Mage Reaver

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@Blood Mage Reaver:  So, do you think the Pride Demon from the Mage Origin was working for the Chantry?  

Wheter that was truly a Pride Demon or a Spirit of Wisdom can be called into question in lieu of the revelations about spirits made by Solas.

 

Regardless, you are confusing cause and effect here.

 

Mages attract different kinds of Fade entities based on their mindset, Amell/Sorana were stated to be prodigies taught directly by the First Enchanter so it's natural that their overconfidence in their abilities would attract a spirit/demon associated with Pride.

 

By narrowing the perception of mages about the Fade, like it was purely dominated by demons constantly trying to possess them, the Chantry deliberately create a negative mindset amongst the mages in the circles and in turn involuntarily increase their vulnerability to demons.

 

The cause of demonic possessions are mages with a negative mindsets and poor self-control, by raising mages under an oppressive and persecutive environment the Chantry increases those factors to a much higher rate than they occur on other societies like the Avaar or the Dalish.

 

This is why the circles did more harm than good once harsh punishments like solitary confinement and last resorts like tranquility became widespread abused tools to control and subjugate mages.

 

Originally circles were envisioned as a physical separation between mages and the rest of society to protect both, mages would develop their practices under supervision of templars and more experienced mages so as to neither become abominations or abuse their powers to become magisters while society would not attack mages on the streets under the then extremely high hatred of Tevinter.

 

Because the Chantry insisted on preaching negative views about magic and gave too much power to the templars, everything about that ended up corrupted and fell apart whereas Dalish, Chasinds, Avaar and Rivaini in their more liberal magic friendly ways remained stable since their conception.


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#82
eyezonlyii

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To be fair, mages in Thedas are never required to be wise or intelligent, especially if you look at the attributes.

 

http://dragonage.wik...butes_(Origins)

 

http://dragonage.wik...s_(Inquisition)

 

The only attribute that governs intelligence and reason is Cunning and mages are not required to invest in them very much. Mages are expected to invest in Magic and Willpower, both of which have no influence on one's intelligence or reasoning ability or wisdom.

 

1) Willpower

  • Origins - Willpower represents a character's determination and mental fortitude.
  • Inquisition - The character's strength of mind and personality.

 

2) Magic

  • Origins - Magic is the measure of a character's natural affinity for the arcane.
  • Inquisition - The character's connection to the Fade and ability to manipulate it.

 

3) Cunning

  • Origins - Cunning determines how well a character learns and reasons.
  • Inquisition - The character's intelligence and deviousness.

 

So the smart and the reasonable ones in Thedas are actually Rogues, not Mages. Additionally, in the comic books, its the non magical people (with the exception of Dr.Manhanttan and Reed Richards) who are the smart and reasonable ones.

Excuse me! But you will not leave Dr. Stephen Strange, Sorcerer Supreme off of the intelligent list! 


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#83
Donquijote and 59 others

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I think Angel&Devils could have been a better title for the thread



#84
eyezonlyii

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I agree with the sentiment that the negatives of being a mage has been glossed over. But then again, how would one show the trials of being a mage in gameplay? Forced nightmare sequences? Oh hearing whispers at random points, like party banter. Maybe apparations flickering in the corner of the screen?


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#85
Medhia_Nox

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Wheter that was truly a Pride Demon or a Spirit of Wisdom can be called into question in lieu of the revelations about spirits made by Solas.

 

Regardless, you are confusing cause and effect here.

 

Mages attract different kinds of Fade entities based on their mindset, Amell/Sorana were stated to be prodigies taught directly by the First Enchanter so it's natural that their overconfidence in their abilities would attract a spirit/demon associated with Pride.

 

By narrowing the perception of mages about the Fade, like it was purely dominated by demons constantly trying to possess them, the Chantry deliberately create a negative mindset amongst the mages in the circles and in turn involuntarily increase their vulnerability to demons.

 

The cause of demonic possessions are mages with a negative mindsets and poor self-control, by raising mages under an oppressive and persecutive environment the Chantry increases those factors to a much higher rate than they occur on other societies like the Avaar or the Dalish.

 

This is why the circles did more harm than good once harsh punishments like solitary confinement and last resorts like tranquility became widespread abused tools to control and subjugate mages.

 

Originally circles were envisioned as a physical separation between mages and the rest of society to protect both, mages would develop their practices under supervision of templars and more experienced mages so as to neither become abominations or abuse their powers to become magisters while society would not attack mages on the streets under the then extremely high hatred of Tevinter.

 

Because the Chantry insisted on preaching negative views about magic and gave too much power to the templars, everything about that ended up corrupted and fell apart whereas Dalish, Chasinds, Avaar and Rivaini in their more liberal magic friendly ways remained stable since their conception.

 

I see... so in Rivain, where the Seers openly welcome spirit contact they're not trying to be possessed because they don't have the Chantry fear.

 

And Solas doesn't say he always guards against demon possession... because why would he?  He doesn't have to fear spirit possession because he doesn't have Chantry fear. 

 

And the Avvar never get possesed... and the Chasind and Dalish never get possessed... because their perceptions are totally different from the Chantry.

 

Only... they all can get possessed.

 

And before you argue - yes, but the Fade mirrors thought - there are far more people who don't subscribe to Chantry fear than do.  Nevarra doesn't.  Tevinter doesn't.  The Dalish don't.  Most mages don't.  The Wardens probably never think about it.  Rivain of course.  

 

I believe you are grasping at straws solely because you hate the Chantry... and you hate mages being hunted like cattle by demons and want to place the blame squarely on something else. 

 

It was an interesting facet of the cosmology of Thedas... and now, it's mostly gone.  I don't care "why" - it's just my opinion that the direction the cosmology is taking is boring me. 


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#86
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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I agree with the sentiment that the negatives of being a mage has been glossed over. But then again, how would one show the trials of being a mage in gameplay? Forced nightmare sequences? Oh hearing whispers at random points, like party banter. Maybe apparations flickering in the corner of the screen?

This is essentially what the devs said on the subject.

 

 

Because the Chantry insisted on preaching negative views about magic and gave too much power to the templars, everything about that ended up corrupted and fell apart whereas Dalish, Chasinds, Avaar and Rivaini in their more liberal magic friendly ways remained stable since their conception.

The Dalish can, if you do things wrong, lose one clan per game. Two of those three clans are in that position because that clan's mages were irresponsible with their magic. And if the PC's intervention is the reason Zathrian and Marethari's clans die (in world-states where they do,) it's not like it would have been impossible for the powder-keg they lit to destroy those clans in any other way. And then there's the fact that at least one clan abandons spare mage children, and what happened with Imshael. Not to mention that Merril explicitly states that they've lost clans because the Keeper went abomination. In short, the Dalish are better evidence against mage freedom than for it in a lot of ways.

 

The Avaar, meanwhile, conduct rather risky religious rituals in which they invite spirits into their territory and their mages bodies. They've managed not to screw that up, if you don't count Hakkon, but that's not the same as saying you can promise that will stay stable.

 

We don't see much of Rivain, so we don't know that this is true, but according to Word of Gaider there's a higher rate of abominations there than in the rest of Thedas. They accept that they can't really stop the problem, which means that it's not as mitigated as in the rest of Thedas.

 

In short, I don't know that I'd say "these societies have remained stable."

 

And I didn't think we knew enough about the Chasind to make any argument about them whatsoever.


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#87
Sah291

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I agree with the sentiment that the negatives of being a mage has been glossed over. But then again, how would one show the trials of being a mage in gameplay? Forced nightmare sequences? Oh hearing whispers at random points, like party banter. Maybe apparations flickering in the corner of the screen?

It's hard to do, because of player agency and plot armor. We encounter demons in the series who offer the player things, but no real dire consequences ever come from those encounters.

They would have to introduce some scenario where the demon can cause the player to die or fail somehow. Maybe during an unexpected moment. Kind of like how you can get a game over if Shepard gets too close to Morinth in ME. But there has to be a reason to it, and players won't like if it singles out just one class.

Besides, it isn't set in stone being a mage is that inherrently dangerous. That is what people believe about mages, but not necessarily always true.

The Envy demon in DAI was pretty good. They could have made that quest even darker, but it gets the idea across.

#88
Medhia_Nox

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Besides, it isn't set in stone being a mage is that inherrently dangerous. That is what people believe about mages, but not necessarily always true.
 

 

This might be true, but it is not the impression I got - or wanted - throughout DA.  It is not why I originally thought I liked their magic and mage system.  

 

What I believe - is that people have become so caught up on these forums with projecting on the Chantry and the mages their personal lives - that they want to believe that the Chantry is always lying and always evil. 

 

I believe mages were very inherently dangerous in DA:O.  I believe almost every prominent mage in DA:O failed catastrophically.  Jowan, Zathrian, Avernus, Uldred, Connor, Wilhem, the mage "Mouse" is imitating... and most of them to demons.  I believe that it is not incorrect to say what DA was stating very clearly about being a mage... and I liked it. 

 

Now I believe it to be changed to represent a more "superhero" type mage... and I'm not interested.  


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#89
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Once again I have to agree with Medhia_Nox. The best portrayals of magic are when you portray it as having an inherent cost or danger to its user.

 

For example in WoW, magic is powerful, corrupting, addicting and draws unwanted attention from denizens of the Twisting Nether.

 

In the Witcher world, magic is inherently chaotic, can cause madness and can cause great fatigue even to its most skilled practitioners.

 

Straight away, you see that magic in those worlds as something that can be useful, but inherently dangerous and can be costly. This makes magic more exciting, interesting, balanced and believable. Truly, when you can do reality altering things by uttering some words, moving your hands and simply thinking, you need to have an inherent cost to that reality altering process to make it grounded.

 

Otherwise, what we will end up with D&D style Wizard magic where you can practically study and use any form of magic you want including mind control and raising undead and there is no inherent dangers associated with that.

 

IMO, turning mages into mutant superheroes is the wrong way to go. Note that I said inherent cost not sociocultural one. Sociocultural costs are all fine and dandy but what we need is an inherent cost to magic, just as there is an inherent cost to technology for example.



#90
Sah291

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The issue with portraying magic as inherently dangerous, was always that it rarely (never) impacted the player mage character at all, and that became increasingly difficult to justify in a setting where magic was treated realistically as actually dangerous by other characters. So much so they removed blood mage as a specialization.

I don't agree that they are turning mages into superhuman mutants though. They are treating magic more realistically, as neither inherrently good nor dangerous, depending on the mages intention.

That said, it is still portrayed as being potentially very dangerous even so...enough to rip hole in the sky and send demons pouring through.

#91
TheKomandorShepard

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It's all about your emotional state, remember that spirits and demons embody concepts they come in contact with in the Fade.

 

If you are a noble mage with good intentions and strong determination, it's likely that you will attract benevolent spirits to aid in your hour of need.

 

However, if you feel negative emotions like rage, hubris, obsession or despair you will attract demons corresponding to those emotions.

 

The big difference between Circle Mages and other mages is that they live in an institution which considers magic to be inherently evil and chaotic.

 

Circle mages are indoctrinated to the idea that their magic is beyond their own control and that they need to be confined to prevent them from being possessed by demons.

 

Like Solas said, Andrastian mages from the South grow up under the belief that all communicating spirits are demons and that they must fear and reject everything that comes from the Fade.

 

That belief in itself creates fear, anxiety and insecurity which not only attract demons more easily but also twist the perception of the mage into seeing every spirit in the form of a demon.

 

If the mage grows in a more Fade friendly environment, chances are that they will be able to differentiate between demons and spirits far easier and that good spirits will help teach them how to defend themselves from the bad.

 

So far the percentage of mages being possessed by demons amongst Dalish, Chasinds, Avaar and Rivaini appears to be lower than that of circles which reinforces that an oppressive instituion does far more harm than good in preventing the spread of abominations.

 

Oh rly, almost every dalish clan we saw had problems caused by their mages and said problems were involving demons and Avaars caused threat on world scale by playing with demon twice and we learn that five minutes we start exploring their culture wonder how much more dirt one would find on them with more exploration. On other two, we never had opportunity to explore their cultures or even region, so i don't know from where you took your statistics but in fact we know that mages going wrong happen in Rivain. Then there is matter those group have to deal with significantly less mages than circles.

 

Good intentions or bad mage mage still remains threat.


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#92
Donquijote and 59 others

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Good intentions or bad mage mage still remains threat.

False assumptions caused world threat! ;)

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#93
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I believe mages were very inherently dangerous in DA:O.  I believe almost every prominent mage in DA:O failed catastrophically.  Jowan, Zathrian, Avernus, Uldred, Connor, Wilhem, the mage "Mouse" is imitating... and most of them to demons.  I believe that it is not incorrect to say what DA was stating very clearly about being a mage... and I liked it. 

 

Now I believe it to be changed to represent a more "superhero" type mage... and I'm not interested.  

Please at least save Wynne



#94
Bayonet Hipshot

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Oh rly, almost every dalish clan we saw had problems caused by their mages and said problems were involving demons and Avaars caused threat on world scale by playing with demon twice and we learn that five minutes we start exploring their culture wonder how much more dirt one would find on them with more exploration. On other two, we never had opportunity to explore their cultures or even region, so i don't know from where you took your statistics but in fact we know that mages going wrong happen in Rivain. Then there is matter those group have to deal with significantly less mages than circles.

 

Good intentions or bad mage mage still remains threat.

 

Magic in Thedas reminds me of Magic in WoW. In WoW, you have 4 rules of magic:-

  1. Magic is Powerful
  2. Magic is Corrupting
  3. Magic is an Addiction
  4. Magic attracts Twisting Nether like flies to honey.

In Thedas,

  1. Magic is powerful, although only in cutscenes for the most part.
  2. Specific forms of magic such as blood magic and blight magic can be corrupting.
  3. I don't know about corruption but there are certain groups who rely too much on magic like the Ancient Elves who then paid the price for it.
  4. Magic most definitely attracts unwanted demonic attention, especially if you use magic like blood magic.

The reality is that magic in Thedas is a natural part and phenomena of Thedas and it can be powerful but it has very real risks and consequences. For one, relying too much on magic can damn an entire society when that magic is gone or taken away or blocked and it is capable of corrupting people as well as causing unwanted attention from Fade creatures.



#95
vertigomez

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I agree with the sentiment that the negatives of being a mage has been glossed over. But then again, how would one show the trials of being a mage in gameplay? Forced nightmare sequences? Oh hearing whispers at random points, like party banter. Maybe apparations flickering in the corner of the screen?


Ooh, like a Malkavian run of VtMB. All those creepy whispers.

Spoiler


#96
TheKomandorShepard

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The reality is that magic in Thedas is a natural part and phenomena of Thedas and it can be powerful but it has very real risks and consequences. For one, relying too much on magic can damn an entire society when that magic is gone or taken away or blocked and it is capable of corrupting people as well as causing unwanted attention from Fade creatures.

 

I can't speak about WoW because i didn't play in it, but magic in dragon age setting is not worth problems it causes, sure healing is nice and all but with recurring disasters on local , national or even world scale aren't worth that, better for Thedas if they simply switch on technology and start progress it as it is safer , more stable , effective and can be mass-produced.

 



#97
Bayonet Hipshot

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I can't speak about WoW because i didn't play in it, but magic in dragon age setting is not worth problems it causes, sure healing is nice and all but with recurring disasters on local , national or even world scale aren't worth that, better for Thedas if they simply switch on technology and start progress it as it is safer , more stable , effective and can be mass-produced.

 

 

The thing is magic in Thedas is a natural occurrence, just like gravity and magnetism. You cannot ignore it or banish it anymore than you can banish or ignore gravity and magnetism.

 

The only way you can remove magic altogether is to destroy the Fade, destroy the lyrium, the Taint and carry out a worldwide genetic modification program that renders blood magic unusable. Put simply, that's impossible.

 

Magic is in Thedas and will be here since it is part of Thedas. However, we have to try and understand it and have a regulation system that is driven by facts, not religious dogma.


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#98
TheKomandorShepard

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The thing is magic in Thedas is a natural occurrence, just like gravity and magnetism. You cannot ignore it or banish it anymore than you can banish or ignore gravity and magnetism.

 

The only way you can remove magic altogether is to destroy the Fade, destroy the lyrium, the Taint and carry out a worldwide genetic modification program that renders blood magic unusable. Put simply, that's impossible.

 

Magic is in Thedas and will be here since it is part of Thedas. However, we have to try and understand it and have a regulation system that is driven by facts, not religious dogma.

 

Magic manifests itself in mages, if you deal with mages on regular basis you are able to remove it to almost non-existen degree.

 

Lyrium while may be classified as "magic" without mage lyrium isn't big threat (not counting red lyrium, that doesn't seem to be created by natural means), while taint possibly creation of the mages or at least was brought onto real word by mages.      



#99
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Magic is in Thedas and will be here since it is part of Thedas. However, we have to try and understand it and have a regulation system that is driven by facts, not religious dogma.

Fact: Untrained mages can go abomination. (That clearly hasn't been retconned; even if we don't see it often in Inquisition and its DLCs it's heavily alluded to in those same materials.)

Fact: Trained mages can still go abomination. (Dorian states that it could theoretically happen to him, though he implies it's about as likely as a critfail in a d% system, and we know it happened to the first FE of the Gallows.)

Fact: Magic gives mages a huge advantage over mundanes in most competitions. If there's anything the mage wants that other people have or could have (a house, a job title with limited openings, and in some circumstances even noble titles) the mage can simply take it if he wants it badly enough.

 

If the Templars justify themselves with religious rhetoric, they still have actual facts backing them up.



#100
Blood Mage Reaver

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I see... so in Rivain, where the Seers openly welcome spirit contact they're not trying to be possessed because they don't have the Chantry fear.

 

And Solas doesn't say he always guards against demon possession... because why would he?  He doesn't have to fear spirit possession because he doesn't have Chantry fear. 

 

And the Avvar never get possesed... and the Chasind and Dalish never get possessed... because their perceptions are totally different from the Chantry.

 

Only... they all can get possessed.

 

And before you argue - yes, but the Fade mirrors thought - there are far more people who don't subscribe to Chantry fear than do.  Nevarra doesn't.  Tevinter doesn't.  The Dalish don't.  Most mages don't.  The Wardens probably never think about it.  Rivain of course.  

 

I believe you are grasping at straws solely because you hate the Chantry... and you hate mages being hunted like cattle by demons and want to place the blame squarely on something else. 

 

It was an interesting facet of the cosmology of Thedas... and now, it's mostly gone.  I don't care "why" - it's just my opinion that the direction the cosmology is taking is boring me. 

You are pulling a false dichotomy here, I never said that mages from other societies can't get possessed, I said that the rate at which that happens is evidently lower than in Chantry circles which supports the view that locking mages in a tower like prisioners and driving them into depression, vengeance or paranoia provides no actual benefit in protecting the world from abominations.

 

Rivaini seers offer themselves as willing hosts for positive spirits who enter and live as they want, they actually provide benefitial services for the communities they live in. It tells a lot about Chantry understanding of magic when they called the Right of Annulment against the Rivaini Circle because they followed a practice that helped their society for thousands of years.

 

You are the one grasping at straws and trying to discretid the plight of all mages because the stupidity of a few, in Godwin's terms it's the same as saying that because a few Jews are corrupt bankers who try to control the fate of nations then all Jews must be confined with the threat of death to prevent the rest from being like that.

 

This is essentially what the devs said on the subject.

 

 

The Dalish can, if you do things wrong, lose one clan per game. Two of those three clans are in that position because that clan's mages were irresponsible with their magic. And if the PC's intervention is the reason Zathrian and Marethari's clans die (in world-states where they do,) it's not like it would have been impossible for the powder-keg they lit to destroy those clans in any other way. And then there's the fact that at least one clan abandons spare mage children, and what happened with Imshael. Not to mention that Merril explicitly states that they've lost clans because the Keeper went abomination. In short, the Dalish are better evidence against mage freedom than for it in a lot of ways.

 

The Avaar, meanwhile, conduct rather risky religious rituals in which they invite spirits into their territory and their mages bodies. They've managed not to screw that up, if you don't count Hakkon, but that's not the same as saying you can promise that will stay stable.

 

We don't see much of Rivain, so we don't know that this is true, but according to Word of Gaider there's a higher rate of abominations there than in the rest of Thedas. They accept that they can't really stop the problem, which means that it's not as mitigated as in the rest of Thedas.

 

In short, I don't know that I'd say "these societies have remained stable."

 

And I didn't think we knew enough about the Chasind to make any argument about them whatsoever.

Zathrian had his children killed and raped, you want any father to remain sane after that? He cast a curse on the perpetrators which ran out of control after they died and the caster refused to let go off his hatred of humans.

 

Zathrian's curse made him immune to age and kept spreading until the spirit he summoned with blood magic decided she had enough and started attacking elfs besides humans.

 

Still, a centuries old mad Keeper does not represent the Dalish mages by a whole. His apprentice Lanaya followed the best of what he taugh, turned her back on hatred of humans and in turn used her magic to make her people prosper for a long time.

 

Marthari's clan can also be counted as an exception, Merril deliberatedly went against the wisdom and guidance from her teacher and started using blood magic because she placed the restoration of an ancient artifact above the safety of her own clan. 

 

A single Dalish mage from a single Dalish clan choose exile over stop dabbling with the most dangerous forms of magic possible which resulted in her keeper giving up her life in her place, that was the sole casualty directly provoked because of Dalish magic leniency. The clan getting wipped out wasn't because of a demonic possession but because they attacked the freaking Champion of Kirkwall in grief over the perceived murder of their leader at the hands of Merril.

 

Compare those examples with circle mages who were supposed to be less vulnerable to possession and whose possession would be better fought by templars.

 

Uldred, a Senior Enchanter, became a Pride Abomination, corrupted a large number of mages into a blood magic cult and completely ravaged Kinloch Hold despite all suposed safeguards that the circle system should provide over free mages.

 

Orsino, the First Enchanter of Kirkwall, was a blood mage under the watch of the most psychotic and paranoid Knight Commander ever and the game explicitly states that he and most other blood mages in Kirkwall turned out that way because the circle system and templar oppression and corruption drove them off the deep end.

 

Last of all, the Dalish don't abandon magic children because they prejudice magic or because that increases the risk of abominations, they abandon magic children because too many mages in one clan would attract the attention of templars wanting to attack the non-andrastian apostates.

 

Oh rly, almost every dalish clan we saw had problems caused by their mages and said problems were involving demons and Avaars caused threat on world scale by playing with demon twice and we learn that five minutes we start exploring their culture wonder how much more dirt one would find on them with more exploration. On other two, we never had opportunity to explore their cultures or even region, so i don't know from where you took your statistics but in fact we know that mages going wrong happen in Rivain. Then there is matter those group have to deal with significantly less mages than circles.

 

Good intentions or bad mage mage still remains threat.

Again, how many times did Avaar mages nearly caused a catastrophe? Twice in a thousand years!

 

Let's hate and persecute generations of mages from hundreds of different tribes because two mages from the same one did some bad ****. GENIUS!

 

The problem are not Avaar mages, the problem are the Jaws of Hakkon and it was a ****** MAGE who saved the world by stopping them the first time.

 

The Chantry ripped the real Ameridan from the records alongside Shartan because a massive war broke out between elfs and humans so every heroic elf and mage was retconned into non-existence or being a devouted andrastian human muggle.

 

Magic is dangerous but is also a part of nature like fire, storms and winter and you just can't really suppress it. In some instances it put the world in danger but so did normal means like wars between nobles and kingdoms.

 

There was nothing magical about the Exalted March on the Dales which was started by and mostly fought by swords, shields and arrows, there was nothing magical about the Qunari military superiority that nearly conquered all of Thedas until setting the mages loose turned the tables and there was certainly nothing magical about Gaspard nearly driving Orlais into the ground over his rivalry with Celene.

 

Half the problems in Origins were because Loghain was paranoid about an Orlesian invasion in the middle of a Blight and that was because he previously fought an Orlesian occupation which had nothing to do with magic.

 

Even Tevinter, despite being the greatest example after Arlathan of magic gone wrong, still stands as the oldest and strongest civilization in Thedas because they valued magic instead of fearing it.

 

My point is that oppressing and persecuting mages because magic is dangerous and some mages can royally screw up never helped reduce the problem, creating the circles and placing the templars to treat mages like crap ultimately made the problem worse because it turned mages against society at large and provoked a continent shattering war.

 

In a nutshell, if measure A didn't help reduce problem X then imposing measure A to confront problem X while creating problems Y and Z was not just pointless but a shot in the foot.


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