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[eyezonlyii]

the nobles can cause some horrific damage, but not anywhere near the level a mage can

 

 

Unless the nobility are mages. (**** forbid.)

With merchant access to Dwarven lyrium sellers and/or a penchant for blood magic and unquestioning servants.

[Sah291]

That is ridiculous logic and doesn't fit example.

Nobility doesn't threat world's safety and basically just rulling class it is acquired tile not something you have born with, lock them up someone else will take their place at the top of the society.

I don't see a difference. Thedas is feudal. Wealth and property is past down in families like magic. They have more wealth and power than everyone else. They are a minority. They (together with the Clergy, many of which are from noble families as well) have all the political power, and if/when drunk with power, they can cause terrible damage to society, such as starting wars, invasions, etc.

If this is really about containing the power of a powerful minority that could be dangerous, they fit all the criteria.

the nobles can cause some horrific damage, but not anywhere near the level a mage can

So the entire noble class, with all of their power and wealth combined, is worse than a single mage?

Even Fenris admits Andraste's rebellion was trying to curtail the rule of powerful mage elite families, and not average or peasant mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't see a difference. Thedas is feudal. Wealth and property is past down in families like magic. They have more wealth and power than everyone else. They are a minority. They (together with the Clergy, many of which are from noble families as well) have all the political power, and if/when drunk with power, they can cause terrible damage to society, such as starting wars, invasions, etc.

If this is really about containing the power of a powerful minority that could be dangerous, they fit all the criteria.

Well , let me ask you a simple question how many times nobility (non-mages) caused world-threats? Answer is simple 0. 

Now, you should figure that if i asked about mages in that matter answer would be different.

 

Plus once again, nobility requires power of the entire country behind them while mage requires only magic to cause terrible damage and as long society exist "ruling" class will exist so once again locking them would not only didn't work as they rule society and second other people would just jump in their place. 

[Sah291]

Well , let me ask you a simple question how many times nobility (non-mages not magisters) caused world-threats? Answer is simple 0. 
Now, you should figure that if i asked about mages in that matter answer would be different.
 
Plus once again, nobility requires power of the entire country behind them while mage requires only magic and as long society exist "ruling" class will exist so once again locking them would not only didn't work as they rule society and second other people would just jump in their place.

My point is not to say nobility should be locked up. It's that Andraste's rebellion was more likely about abolition of slavery and overthrowing the ruling class that endorsed it, and not about magic.

To answer your question though, neither a mage nor non mage can threaten the world singlehandedly. Not even Cory managed it alone, without legions of followers who worshipped him and/or saw him as a savior figure. Did he do that with magic? Does the Inquisitor not do the same exact thing, inspiring legions of followers.. Except hopefully not to evil ends.

[TheKomandorShepard]

My point is not to say nobility should be locked up. It's that Andraste's rebellion was more likely about abolition of slavery and overthrowing the ruling class that endorsed it, and not about magic.

To answer your question though, neither a mage nor non mage can threaten the world singlehandedly. Not even Cory managed it alone, without legions of followers who worshipped him and/or saw him as a savior figure. Did he do that with magic? Does the Inquisitor not do the same exact thing, inspiring legions of followers.. Except hopefully not to evil ends.

 

It doesn't matter , magic is till real problem and threat that needs to be deal with, chantry solutions simply steam from common sense and self-preservation.

 

He didn't need them to destroy world, He needed them to oppose Inquistion he caused breach almost single-handedly with few grey wardens and in the end he tried blow up world in rage this time single-handedly but thankfully was stopped.   

 

Inquistor is a threat as well but due being PC and being railroaded to being good he can't abuse his powers, however Inquistor may express desire to go to the black city showing he is threat to the mankind and rest of the world. that is until he lost anchor. 

[Kakistos_]

They are while casting spells, as per the book Last Flight, and if they use blood magic they can hear demons trying to possess them at the level of a deafenin roar, a normal spell just renders them as whispers.  But yes mages are constantly under siege while practicing magic.

 

 

Tevinter has self policing mages in that the ones who cannot best demons are likely not strong enough to ever amount to anything in Tevinter or are killed off by their rivals.

 

And the Avvar kill weak mages susceptible to possession.  So they aren't exactly bettering everyone.

 

And still a vast majority of Mages resist Blood Mage or no. The Avvar Mages better their community in a variety of ways and only Mages that are an imminent danger are killed. Avvar Mages foster relationships with native Spirits who in turn keep Demons away, train young Mages, and help the Hold's warriors in battle. They are also capable of separating Spirits from unwilling hosts, something that most Circle Mages would tell you is impossible. They are a clear and potent boon for their society.

[Sah291]

It doesn't matter , magic is till real problem and threat that needs to be deal with, chantry solutions simply steam from common sense and self-preservation.

He didn't need them to destroy world, He needed them to oppose Inquistion he caused breach almost single-handedly with few grey wardens and in the end he tried blow up world in rage this time single-handedly but thankfully was stopped.

Why did he need the Divine for his ritual though? It is because there was a great deal of power vested into her, both as a symbol and a person. She was even turned into a Spirit herself as a result, to make this point clear.

Power comes in many different forms and from many sources, and not only mages have it.

It's like Cass says, people weren't really following the Inquisitor because of the special anchor, but because of your actions/choices. The anchor is just a gimmick/illusion to show you (the player) that.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

@TheKomandorShepard and Riverdaleswhiteflash

 

You guys are still not getting the point.

 

I am not saying that other systems are flawless, I am saying that they are all functional without the excessive repression that the circle system entails.

The word you originally used was "stable" rather than "functional." Which I suppose is arguably true of the Avvar, since a whole lot would have to go wrong before the Avvar's spirits put them in danger. But I would not care to make that argument of the Dalish, since each clan is led by someone who could destroy the entire clan through one foolish use of his powers.

 

But if you want to argue that the Dalish system is "functional," I can't argue with that. Most societies are. All you need is to either have more births than deaths, or failing that enough people to wait out a downward trend in population.

 

 

-The Dalish have their own mages and warriors to fight against abominations so it's not set in stone every possessed Dalish mage will wipe out their clan and wreck havoc unchecked.

Go ahead and tell me you don't understand why I want to not take that risk. Besides, the abomination doesn't have to kill them all. If it's clever enough it might get away with just fleeing the clan on a pretext.

 

 

-The Avaar have their own mages, warriors and friendly spirits to aid them in stopping demon possessed mages from destroying their tribes.

Yeah, but as I previously argued, it's going to be hard to apply this to any other people, because those other people would need to find their own spirits. Besides, we aren't really given any concrete set of rules governing how spirits become corrupted, so for all we know the Final Boss of DA5 could be the Lady of the Skies.

 

 

-Tevinter has legions of mages and elite mage killers ready to stop abominations from wrecking havoc.

While the main reason I support the Circles is to prevent abominations, you seem to have missed that one of the other most popular arguments people throw around is that it also prevents Tevinter.

 

 

 

A Dalish mage might become an abomination because a skirmish with humans killed someone dear to him and drove him mad, an Avaar mage might become an abomination if his clansmen are killed in a losing battle and a slave mage from Tevinter might become an abomination to take revenge against his masters but none of them is actively being driven to depression, hatred and possession by a system which persecutes them for being mages.

And the Circle mages are being kept from lynch mobs and starvation, and are less likely to get into a fight if the Circle is done right. All of which could also create abominations. "Persecution" really seems to be a matter of perspective in such Circles as aren't in Kirkwall.

 

 

I get that the idea behind the Circle of Magi is to contain the threat and damage caused by magic abuse and mage possession, I get that in theory they would limit casualties from non-magic humans and give time for large anti-magic armies to mobilize against a demon outbreak.

 

The problem is that they failed, none of what you guys are defending worked in practice.

It worked for several centuries. A whole lot of countries don't go as long as the Circle system did between civil wars.

 

 

-Concentrating a large number of mages in a single place attract more Fade entities than small groups of mages teaching each other independently, thus increasing the risk of possession rather than diminishing it.

 

-Whenever a circle mage became an abomination it wouldn't necessarily attack everyone on sight until it was put down, stronger and more intelligent demons would lay low and mend in to corrupt more circle mage driven to hatred and depression by their prisioner status and the usual result was an overwhelming outbreak of abominations rather than a single one from a less corruption prone environment.

It also made it harder for the abomination to meet anything that couldn't defend itself from them using magic. All that needs to happen for the less intelligent, more violent demon to fail is for one mage or templar to kill it. All that's needed for one of the brighter demons to fail is to get eavesdropped on by one Templar or have one mage realize what's happening and sound the alarm. And if things break down before that can happen, well...

 

 

-Circles were never escape-proof prisons, most abominations you fight in every game are mages who escaped from circles and choose possession over letting themselves be dragged back to their confinement. This kills the argument that circles did better than other systems at preventing unchecked abominations from spreading.

I can't answer for DA2, but most of the abominations you fight in DA:O are mages who were trapped in Kinloch Hold. It sucks for them, since apparently most of them didn't like the idea of turning, but it sucks rather less for those outside the Tower, doesn't it? There was every chance they'd get out of the Tower, in fact it's implied that Gregoir was concerned they could at any second. But if it weren't for the Tower, they would have been out in the world in a heartbeat. I'll grant that it's unlikely that that many abominations will form any other way, but if a large number does form somewhere else how will anyone know? And how will the non-magical civilians that under your system they will have easy to access defend themselves from these abominations? At least a magical civilian is not totally helpless against an abomination.

 

 

Rather than relying on mages or benevolent spirits as the vanguard to protect inexperienced mages from possession and taking down those who became possessed, the circles relied on an army of functional Lyrium addicts to suppress magic and fight demons. For every mage in the circle you had to sacrifice several other humans to Lyrium degeneration to keep an effective force of templars to watch over them.

The Codex on Pride Demons in DA:O implies that using mages against demons is not an entirely unknown practice. As for using spirits like the Avvar do, first you need to find spirits that can be trusted. The Avvar have already done so. The Circles, or the civilizations that you're asserting no longer need Circles, would need to find their own and hope that they weren't finding spirits who had... certain conflicts of interest as far as protecting the mages from demons. They'd also need to hope these spirits didn't get corrupted. And before you argue that that can't happen, I don't know if we're entirely sure how that happens. Solas says something about "denying spirits their purpose," and Justice and Colepassion both seem to fall into that category, but we don't know that it's the only way or really even what that means in the first place. Can a Justice spirit go Vengeance over Alienages? Or can a Wisdom spirit who is ignored go Pride and destroy those who ignore it? The former might start out justified, but we've seen that Vengeance spirits go way too far.

 

 

For all the massive costs the Circle System entailed it not only failed to achieve the expected results but ultimately collapsed catastrophically and nearly destroyed Southern Thedas as it crumbled.

 

Understand that your arguments are all based on the concepts which created circles but not how they happened in practice, let me make it clear exactly how ridiculous you guys sound with an analogy:

 

"HEY EVERYONE, LETS FORBID PRIVATE PROPERTY AND EMBRACE COMMUNISM BECAUSE CAPITALISTS CAN BECOME TYCOONS AND ENSLAVE US ALL! THE SOVIET UNION WAS A FLUKE, IT TOTALLY WORKS!"

 

The circle system is to magic what communism is to capitalism, a theoretically ideal answer which failed spectacularly in practice but keeps being preached because die hard believers of the system refuse to recognize it creates far more problems than it helps solve.

The thing is, as bad as a civil war is, one over the course of centuries is not the worst track record. My country had one less than a century after independence. It was shortly after that that we became a colonial power by forcibly depriving the Spanish of some of their empire. And we spent the Cold War as one of the two main superpowers. Not to defend any of what we did, since I'm aware we've done some questionable and even outright immoral things, but the fact remains that a civil war tearing us apart and wrecking a whole lot of our infrastructure wasn't exactly our death knell. So, yeah, the Mage-Templar war doesn't mean the system can't rebuild itself.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Why did he need the Divine for his ritual though? It is because there was a great deal of power vested into her, both as a symbol and a person. She was even turned into a Spirit herself as a result, to make this point clear.

Power comes in many different forms and from many sources, and not only mages have it.

It's like Cass says, people weren't really following the Inquisitor because of the special anchor, but because of your actions/choices. The anchor is just a gimmick/illusion to show you (the player) that.

 

Not rly, reason whas never said and there was nothing special about divine , considering his rage against gods and desire to become god himself he probably wanted to be symbolic and prove he is only one god killing divine or something. 

 

Once again, irrelevant mages can blow up the world and cause huge disaster individually or in small groups non-mages can't difference is noted. 

 

Inquistor is still a threat to a world safety because of anchor , not because he makes choices.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Why did he need the Divine for his ritual though? It is because there was a great deal of power vested into her, both as a symbol and a person. She was even turned into a Spirit herself as a result, to make this point clear.

Power comes in many different forms and from many sources, and not only mages have it.

It's like Cass says, people weren't really following the Inquisitor because of the special anchor, but because of your actions/choices. The anchor is just a gimmick/illusion to show you (the player) that.

Was it made clear that he actually needed the Divine? I thought he just picked her because he either didn't know there would be an explosion and wanted her dead in order to cause chaos, or knew there would be an explosion, placed it at the Peace Summit, and decided "hey, why not sacrifice the important one in order to make it?"

 

And you're reaching a bit when you say she turned into a spirit. The interpretation that's most in line with the way this setting otherwise works is that a spirit took her form.

 

True, power takes many forms. I'm not going to deny that. And Corypheus specifically wanted the Divine dead because she had some and was using it in a way that was inconvenient to him. But your greater point, that magic is no worse than any other form, falls flat when abominations are a known bug of the magic system. Abominations are monsters that any mage can theoretically become, whether or not they want to. Some are powerful enough to take out whole cities. Most other forms of power aren't quite that dangerous. Political power comes close, but no village mayor is capable of quite as much devastation quite as quickly as Connor was. Alistair or Celene would be capable of about as much almost as quickly, but they're not as good an analogy for Connor as a village mayor is: compare them to Senior Enchanters, who are not the strongest mages, but have more of that kind of power than most. Now, you can argue that the Circle isn't the best way to deal with that problem if you want, but don't just skate over it.

 

Heck, your argument falls somewhat flat due to the Breach. It's made clear that messing with the Veil like that is dangerous to the entire planet. If most uses of magic don't do that, magic is still the only power in Thedas that even can do that.

[Sah291]

Not rly, reason whas never said and there was nothing special about divine , considering his rage against gods and desire to become god himself he probably wanted to be symbolic and prove he is only one god killing divine or something. 
 
Once again, irrelevant mages can blow up the world and cause huge-disaster individually or in small groups non-mages can't difference is noted. 
 
Inquistor is still a threat to a world safety because of anchor , not because he makes choices.

That's my interpretation of the game, from a literary standpoint, these are the ideas I think the writers were trying get across.

I just don't see where mages are really that much different from non mages, outside of having different talents, and potentially different ways of thinking. I don't see it as a simple Magic vs. Muggles thing. But that's just me.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's my interpretation of the game, from a literary standpoint, these are the ideas I think the writers were trying get across.

I just don't see where mages are really that much different from non mages, outside of having different talents, and potentially different ways of thinking. I don't see it as a simple Magic vs. Muggles thing. But that's just me.

That is fine however, there isn't any kind of evidence to support it so doesn't have much weight in reality.

 

I pretty much explained it , one of main differences is that mages are much bigger threat (ie world-scale) when non-mages at worst and as massive collective are on national scale and wipe out only culture.

[Sah291]

Was it made clear that he actually needed the Divine? I thought he just picked her because he either didn't know there would be an explosion and wanted her dead in order to cause chaos, or knew there would be an explosion, placed it at the Peace Summit, and decided "hey, why not sacrifice the important one?"
 
And you're reaching a bit when you say she turned into a spirit. The interpretation that's most in line with the way this setting otherwise works is that a spirit took her form.
 
True, power takes many forms. I'm not going to deny that. And Corypheus specifically wanting the Divine dead is because she had some. But your greater point, that magic is no worse than any other form, falls flat when abominations are a known bug of the magic system. Abominations are monsters that any mage can theoretically become, whether or not they want to. Some are powerful enough to take out whole cities. Argue that the Circle isn't the best way to deal with them if you want, but don't just skate over them.

No I don't think he knew there would be an explosion, he was there to use her in a blood magic ritual. I think it was more than just "sacrifice the important one" but because he intended to transfer that power specifically.

A Spirit either took her form, or she turned into one. It is intentinally left ambiguous who/what the Spirit is. But the symbolism is there, IMO.

That risk of abominations are better or worse than other alternative dangers is relative. Some people would consider the system of social control employed by the Qunari, or example, to be worse. Ok maybe many of them who would think that are mages... But when you are considering what social system is better, you must also ask "better for who"? It's not that black and white.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No I don't think he knew there would be an explosion, he was there to use her in a blood magic ritual. I think it was more than just "sacrifice the important one" but because he intended to transfer that power specifically.

I don't think this is a setting where blood magic is sapient enough to care who the sacrifice is, or where a person's charisma can be made tangible rather than just being a form of power they can use. If he didn't know there would be an explosion, then I think his motivation would be simple. He needs to sacrifice someone, and the easiest way to send this whole inconvenient Peace Summit clear to hell would be to kill the Divine. So, he sacrifices the Divine just to make things easier for him.

 

That risk of abominations are better or worse than other alternative dangers is relative. Some people would consider the system of social control employed by the Qunari, or example, to be worse. Ok maybe many of them who would think that are mages... But when you are considering what social system is better, you must also ask "better for who"? It's not that black and white.

I'm trying to make a system that works as well as possible for as many people as possible. Abominations aren't really helpful as far as that goes. And mages are a minority, so while Thedas shouldn't screw them over more than is actually beneficial the math works if you screw them over to help non-mages.

 

I do not, however, support the Qunari. They just take social control too far. They turn society into the Circle, which I only advocate for mages because they really are enough of a danger to merit it. And lets not get into what they do to the mages.

[Aren]

To answer your question though, neither a mage nor non mage can threaten the world singlehandedly. Not even Cory managed it alone, without legions of followers who worshipped him and/or saw him as a savior figure. Did he do that with magic? Does the Inquisitor not do the same exact thing, inspiring legions of followers.. Except hopefully not to evil ends.

Corypheus constitute a world threat on his own.

In DAI he was dabbling with incredible dangerous form of magic that involved the blighted version of an Evanuris artifact,if he had succeeded then the Alexius future would have become a reality.

[Aren]

 Abominations are monsters that any mage can theoretically become

Abominations are not necessarily ex mages.

Revenant are very dangerous on their own and they are not ex mages and they are far more dangerous than any lower class of ex mage-abomination.

[Sah291]

Corypheus constitute a world threat on his own.
In DAI he was dabbling with incredible dangerous form of magic that involved the blighted version of an Evanuris artifact,if he had succeeded then the Alexius future would have become a reality.

My point isn't that he isn't a powerful mage who can cause havock, but that one wouldn't need to necessarily be a mage to cause a huge threat to the world...so it is a poor basis in which to lock up all mages. The Inquisitor can be a non mage, and although the game doesn't let us play evil, you can see how such a person could rival Cory for power and for godhood... That Cory sees you as a rival to the throne in the golden city is hinted at by Morrigan.

Even if it is true that mages can cause such chaos, why in the world would you lock up other mages who are not cruel and sadistic and who are powerful enough to defeat a person like that?

That is how it is with all power. The game explores this theme a lot.... Theory about how Andraste was betrayed so that they could have an empire to rival Tevinter. A dragon to defeat a dragon, etc. Solas' failed attempt to end slavery. The mage rebellion selling themselves out. Briala's attempt to gain power.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Sah291:  Do you think a mundane can blow up holy site in a ritual to activate a magical device that can rip open the Veil? 

 

- mundanes can wage war.  mages can wage war.  

 

- mundanes cannot distort physics.  mages can distort physics. 

 

The point I think many people try to make... is that not only can a mage do everything a mundane can do, they can also do a whole lot more that mundanes cannot do.  That, I believe, is indisputable.  

[TheKomandorShepard]

My point isn't that he isn't a powerful mage who can cause havock, but that one wouldn't need to necessarily be a mage to cause a huge threat to the world...so it is a poor basis in which to lock up all mages. The Inquisitor can be a non mage, and although the game doesn't let us play evil, you can see how such a person could rival Cory for power and for godhood... That Cory sees you as a rival to the throne in the golden city is hinted at by Morrigan.

Even if it is true that mages can cause such chaos, why in the world would you lock up other mages who are not cruel and sadistic and who are powerful enough to defeat a person like that?

That is how it is with all power. The game explores this theme a lot.... Theory about how Andraste was betrayed so that they could have an empire to rival Tevinter. A dragon to defeat a dragon, etc. Solas' failed attempt to end slavery. The mage rebellion selling themselves out. Briala's attempt to gain power.

 

Inquistor was an exceptional case (caused by a mage) and no longer was normal person and as i said before yes s/he was threat.

 

If that was so easy to guess who will commit crime we wouldn't have to wait for people to do so to lock them up, outside you don't need to be cruel and sadistic in mage case to cause disaster, demons don't care that whether you are Jason Voorhees or Jesus and "good" mages can end as abomnations or lead to disaster with their magic as well.Also, powerful mages are locked out in order prevent those "powerful" mages from causing a disaster.

[Sah291]

@Medhia_Nox,
If you could blow up and destroy the world with one nuclear bomb, does it really matter if you could do it with 10? If you could become a god or prophet and conquer half the world with your ideas, by waging a war and being sacrificed (Andraste), do you need magic for that?

A mundane (I don't agree that's what non mages really are, science/tech has just not caught up yet, but it's hinted that it's coming... ) can change the course of history for good or bad. As long as the Veil continues to exist, magic is slowly disappearing from the world, and will eventually be a forgotten art if people don't try to preserve it (according to Morrigan).

I'm not sure why people are stuck on the idea mages can do things other can't? Why is that a problem? Non mages can do things mages can't or are poor at doing. Non mages are much more resistant to demon possession, even though it is possible. Isn't that an advantage?

Let's suppose magic is inherently chaotic though and can alter reality...sometimes that is needed, in order for change to occur or new ideas to be inovated. Dangerous sometimes, yes, but would Thedas really be better off with mages locked up?

So I don't think that's a good reason to do so, that's all I'm saying. That's just my take on it, personally.

[TheKomandorShepard]

@Medhia_Nox,

Let's suppose magic is inherently chaotic though and can alter reality...sometimes that is needed, in order for change to occur or new ideas to be inovated. Dangerous sometimes, yes, but would Thedas really be better off with mages locked up?

 

 

Yes, you don't need to look far as if mages were locked up there would be no blights.and that is only beginning of other countless disasters that would be thwarted.

[Sah291]

Yes, you don't need to look far as if mages were locked up there would be no blights.and that is only beginning of other countless disasters that would be thwarted.

Then don't expect them to be there to help, next time there's a red/knight templar extremist group or qunari invasion around the corner.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Sah291:  While I do believe the TheKomandorShepard has a point - I also think he's entirely missing the point.

 

If we had curbed technology and the scientific materialistic thought - we wouldn't have global warming and be the cause of the Sixth Extinction event our planet has seen in 4 billion years.

 

So yes, if magic was removed from Thedas - then vast disasters would be avoided.  But the real problem is not science or magic... but sapient creatures.  Remove magic from Thedas - and people would just develop science.  

 

So, in part - TheKomandorShepard has a point - the only solution is to solve the "mage problem" - but I believe he's going about it in the worst possible way that will never be solved.

 

Magic on Thedas is not at all like science.  In our world - anyone can ruin the world with science.  On Thedas... only mages can ruin the world through magic.  This is advantageous for the species of Thedas as they can work on making a small population (mages) better than themselves. 

 

Alas - DA mages are not wizards (wise men) and most of them are incredibly destructive and stupid - a mirror of our modern society and it's self-destructive spiral toward annihilation.  

[Sah291]

@Medhia_Nox,
I agree with you and see what TheKomandorShepard is trying to say. My point is just that without the one, there is nothing checking the power of the other...so both mages and non mages are important to the world, if you don't wan't the extreme ends of either to rule the world.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Then don't expect them to be there to help, next time there's a red/knight templar extremist group or qunari invasion around the corner.

Well, they were locked up and they were used against Qunari i don't see a problem with using them in this scenario ,aside from that red templars wouldn't exist if not Corypheus.

 

 

@Sah291:  While I do believe the TheKomandorShepard has a point - I also think he's entirely missing the point.

 

If we had curbed technology and the scientific materialistic thought - we wouldn't have global warming and be the cause of the Sixth Extinction event our planet has seen in 4 billion years.

 

So yes, if magic was removed from Thedas - then vast disasters would be avoided.  But the real problem is not science or magic... but sapient creatures.  Remove magic from Thedas - and people would just develop science.  

 

So, in part - TheKomandorShepard has a point - the only solution is to solve the "mage problem" - but I believe he's going about it in the worst possible way that will never be solved.

 

Magic on Thedas is not at all like science.  In our world - anyone can ruin the world with science.  On Thedas... only mages can ruin the world through magic.  This is advantageous for the species of Thedas as they can work on making a small population (mages) better than themselves. 

 

Alas - DA mages are not wizards and most of them are incredibly destructive and stupid - a mirror of our modern society and it's self-destructive spiral toward annihilation.  

 

Difference is that dangerous technology (for an example Nuclear weapon) can and is controlled due to that those are inanimate objects, mages are highly unpredictable due to simply being human and can't be controlled completely like it can be done with science.Point is simple, technology is much more stable, safer (due to it being easy to control) and practical (because it can be mass-produced) than mages.