72 réponses à ce sujet

[kimgoold]

A very confrontational character (one I personally despise), after the golden nug was installed, she was gone so fast she left skid marks!. This is one companion I would happily murder knife. ( And I collect everything and everyone in game ).

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think you're reading too much into their intentions. And making them out to be literally malicious even.

 

But I will agree that she was a squandered character. And it's sad because she's a rare black character too. But I'd extend this complaint to the whole game in general. They stopped telling a story about mages and templars and reverted to another "save the world" story and grafted in random **** about elves. They squandered politics in general.

I don't know if I'd say she was squandered. She provides a pro-Templar viewpoint that most mages do not have, and drives home to players who might have doubted it that there's a reason the Circle exists. She proves that a party member doesn't have to be the lucky one chosen by the PC in order to find romantic fulfillment (even if I selfishly wish she didn't.) She provides some comedy in her interactions with other companions.

 

But I certainly agree with the first bit.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I stopped recruiting  Vivi since I find her a royal pia and tied to the outdated Circles that didn't work. The Templars help doom the Circles with their brutality, rape and murder. In my games the Templars seal their fate in Val Royeaux.

How did that happen?

[sylvanaerie]

How is it silly by saying that they don't want no black woman as a romance option? They have her in the game as a tease to tempt gamers to pursue her as a romance option but she ended up laughing at the protagonist's face and telling him no, and they set up the "Duke Bastienne dying" as an excuse for not to romance her from the start for not to be a LI from the start. They should've have Vivienne as a romance option @ Trespasser DLC at least to give players a chance to have a relationship with her, but they didn't and that's why I said they don't want a black woman as love interest. I don't want to alter Leliana or Morrigan to be black, I want to have a relationship an actual black woman.

 

Thing is, she doesn't behave any differently because of the color of her skin than any other woman would in Thedas.  What you're lamenting sounds more like fetishism than personal preference since she behaves in all instances as she would have if she was from any other racial background.

 

And I don't recall Bioware 'teasing' anything about her being a romance option at all.  They even released the list of all options prior to the game's release, not after.  Vivienne's story arc was written long before the game was released.  At no point does she become an option beyond a couple of flirts she deflects with a flattered humor finding you 'charming'.  She's not laughing in your face, and calling you an idiot or something.  You see offense when none is meant.  The Duke dying was written into the game, it wasn't a patch after the game's release.

 

There are several flirt options in the game which lead no where.  What of Scout Harding?  An actual dwarf with a dwarf's outlook and cultural background.  Flirting with Dorian or Cass as a female inquisitor or Cullen on a male.  Or in DA2 flirting with an oblivious Aveline.  Or flirting with Teagan in Origins.  Flirting has been a part of Bioware's stories for a long time.  There's a huge list in SWTOR I could go through of flirts which go no where.  For me, they add to the story and add a fun element to the PC's personality, and sometimes give insight into the NPC's personality too.  Vivienne's humor came off as 'you're charming but I'm not interested' not "hahaha, fool, I have no interest in you that way".

 

I find your argument silly because it has a very 'Bioware is persecuting me' lament to it, I just don't agree with.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Thing is, she doesn't behave any differently because of the color of her skin than any other woman would in Thedas. What you're lamenting sounds more like fetishism than personal preference since she behaves in all instances as she would have if she was from any other racial background.

And I don't recall Bioware 'teasing' anything about her being a romance option at all. They even released the list of all options prior to the game's release, not after. Vivienne's story arc was written long before the game was released. At no point does she become an option beyond a couple of flirts she deflects with a flattered humor finding you 'charming'. She's not laughing in your face, and calling you an idiot or something. You see offense when none is meant. The Duke dying was written into the game, it wasn't a patch after the game's release.

There are several flirt options in the game which lead no where. What of Scout Harding? An actual dwarf with a dwarf's outlook and cultural background. Flirting with Dorian or Cass as a female inquisitor or Cullen on a male. Or in DA2 flirting with an oblivious Aveline. Or flirting with Teagan in Origins. Flirting has been a part of Bioware's stories for a long time. There's a huge list in SWTOR I could go through of flirts which go no where. For me, they add to the story and add a fun element to the PC's personality, and sometimes give insight into the NPC's personality too. Vivienne's humor came off as 'you're charming but I'm not interested' not "hahaha, fool, I have no interest in you that way".

I find your argument silly because it has a very 'Bioware is persecuting me' lament to it, I just don't agree with.

Why are you accusing me of having a fetish just because I said I want to romance a black woman and being angry at me because I criticized BioWare for not having Vivienne as a love interest? I love and adore black women and Vivienne is the most beautiful black woman of the entire game and that's a shame that they didn't have her as a romance interest. And FYI they did have her as a tease because of her voluptuous physique, her charm, the way she walks, how she carries herself and she's the very image of sexiness that makes men want to have her, but you can't have her. That is a tease. And I believe they did set it up for her not to be a romance option by creating a story about her and the Duke to give a reason why she won't be a romance option.

[sylvanaerie]

Why are you accusing me of having a fetish just because I said I want to romance a black woman and being angry at me because I criticized BioWare for not having Vivienne as a love interest? I love and adore black women and Vivienne is the most beautiful black woman of the entire game and that's a shame that they didn't have her as a romance interest. And FYI they did have her as a tease because of her voluptuous physique, her charm, the way she walks, how she carries herself and she's the very image of sexiness that makes men want to have her, but you can't have her. That is a tease. And I believe they did set it up for her not to be a romance option by creating a story about her and the Duke to give a reason why she won't be a romance option.

 

Wow.  You're just digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself here.  I'd say read over what you just wrote and tell me that doesn't sound sexist/racist, but sadly, I don't think you'd see it that way.  Frankly, I am getting angry because, as a woman, I find what you're saying pretty damn insulting to my gender.  The bolded is especially insulting, objectifying women.

 

So,you base your assumptions on the way she looks.  That's a tease????  Do you also believe that every good looking woman you meet or pass on the street is a "tease" simply because of the way she looks?  Are you really going to make the argument that because she doesn't look like an unattractive troll she's 'coming on to you'?  

 

She's a confident, beautiful character, who carries herself as such and embraces her femininity with charm and class.  How she looks is irrelevant, how she dresses is irrelevant, the color of her skin is irrelevant.   Skin has no more impact on her personality than it does on Cassandra, Leliana, or Morrigan (other confident, beautiful characters).  Morrigan's outfits are even more revealing than Vivienne's but outside of the warden in Origins she isn't 'a tease' coming on to you simply for how she looks.  You want to romance Vivienne because of the color of her skin, but 'can't have her', lamenting it like Bioware is playing keep-away with a toy you want.

 

Her relationship with the duke is not a personal attack on you.  It's part of her story arc, as intrinsic to the writing of her character as the love and expertise of the Game instilled into her, not some after thought Bioware just 'threw in the game' to ruin your love life.  And since every other significant female character in the game (with the exceptions of Leliana and Morrigan) are romanceable, maybe they actually wanted to have a woman as someone who could be viewed differently from 'someone you get to have' and debated over about her politics instead of just being 'a virtual male fantasy toy'. 

[Tidus]

N7Phantom, The Templars is well known for killing mages for any reason they see fit.. In Asunder we learn of their brutalities including rape. The Circle failed to protect the mages from the ones that should have been protecting them.

 

The unnecessary hitting of the Mother and the speech by the Lord Seeker in Val Royeaux doom the Templars in my games. It didn't take long for the Templars to start killing mages even the children, the harmless tranquil  and the apprentices left in the tower-you will find this out by talking to the Elvan mage apprentice that studies creatures..

 

Vivi is one half step below Morrigan.. Both wants personal gain and don't care who they step on in obtaining that goal. Poor Vivi doesn't know or understand the Templars would kill her just as fast as any mage since they see her as a Apostate.

 

BTW..Not all men are blinded by beauty.. I find Scout Harding more beautiful in many ways. While brash Sera is a better person then Vivi.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

N7Phantom, The Templars is well known for killing mages for any reason they see fit.. In Asunder we learn of their brutalities including rape. The Circle failed to protect the mages from the ones that should have been protecting them.

Undeniably true, but at the same time we see an example of Templaring done right in Evangeline. The system is redeemable, as long as we can get her training the next generation of Templars instead of, say, the guy who punched the Revered Mother.

 

 

The unnecessary hitting of the Mother and the speech by the Lord Seeker in Val Royeaux doom the Templars in my games.

I know this shouldn't be my reaction, but I actually struggle not to cheer out loud whenever I play that particular scene. As morally objectionable as punching a defenseless civilian is, she was not doing anything to endear herself to me. And then afterwards she has the gall to blame me for her decision to summon the Templars, when all I wanted was to talk and she's the one who turned things violent.

 

Though on a less amoral note, we watch Delrin Barris question everthing that's going on that whole scene. Both the punching, and the refusal to work with the Inquisition. The argument for recruiting the Templars isn't so much "the asshat who punched the Revered Mother can be talked around" as "there's clearly Templars who don't agree with what's happening and can be reasoned with."

 

 

It didn't take long for the Templars to start killing mages even the children, the harmless tranquil  and the apprentices left in the tower-you will find this out by talking to the Elvan mage apprentice that studies creatures..

Again: the Templars are undeniably off the rails. 

 

(Well, that's true if we don't count the Hasmal Templars, who continue to guard their mages after the rebellion starts and contact the Inquisition regardless of who you recruit to seal The Breach when it becomes clear they don't have the wherewithal to protect them. Most of the Templars are off the rails, but you seem to be missing or ignoring evidence that there are bits of the Order that can be salvaged from where they've gone.)

 

 

Vivi is one half step below Morrigan.. Both wants personal gain and don't care who they step on in obtaining that goal. Poor Vivi doesn't know or understand the Templars would kill her just as fast as any mage since they see her as a Apostate.

Well, she clearly understands that on some level or else she'd still be in her Tower. That, and she probably wouldn't be conceding that the Templars need to be kept under stricter control.

 

But you're oversimplifying Vivienne a lot. You're seeing what she wants you to see, rather than what for example Cole sees in her. Cole at one point drags up an image of Vivienne wandering her Circle tower and seeing mages she was responsible for who were killed by rebels for refusing to join up. They seem like the ones who don't care who they step on, leaving Vivienne to mourn their victims. And as for Templar abuses, if you make her Divine she takes actual control of the Templar Order.

[Tidus]

I may be odd man out but,Vivi as a Devine will never happen in my games even if I recruited her. Cass is the better choice IMHO. Leliana has to much of a bloodlust if anybody disagrees. IMHO she would be better off in returning to Denerim and help Shianni sober poor old Tidus up.

 

Having a mage rule over the Templars? I see a good story line for DA:5 or 6 as the Templars revolt.  

 

I wonder if  Thedas would accept a mage as Devine? Would the Chantry?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I may be odd man out but,Vivi as a Devine will never happen in my games even if I recruited her. Cass is the better choice IMHO. Leliana has to much of a bloodlust if anybody disagrees. IMHO she would be better off in returning to Denerim and help Shianni sober poor old Tidus up.

If the bloodlust is the only problem (which it shouldn't be,) maybe you should try doing Leiliana's personal quest in a way that makes her more conciliatory?

 

I agree that, since Cassandra seems to have moral objections to certain things Vivienne does, and I trust Cassandra's moral compass, Cassandra might be the best choice.

 

 

Having a mage rule over the Templars? I see a good story line for DA:5 or 6 as the Templars revolt.

 

I wonder if  Thedas would accept a mage as Devine? Would the Chantry?

Well, the Chantry was the group that voted her in, and they knew at the time she was a mage. That's one question answered.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Undeniably true, but at the same time we see an example of Templaring done right in Evangeline. The system is redeemable, as long as we can get her training the next generation of Templars instead of, say, the guy who punched the Revered Mother.

 

 

Except templars like Evangeline are the minority, and in case you forgot she actually left the Templars when she saw they were corrupt and wanted to kill mages. Plus if you sided with the templars, it's explicitely stated she can't be at Skyhold because the other templars still hate her, so she's not going to help the templars if you sided with them. Plus, the series has made it abundantly clear that templars who actually want to protect mages are the minority while the mage-haters are the majority.

 

This isn't help when the templar codex explicitely states that Templars are recruited more for being fanatical in following orders rather than actually having a conscience. They prefer fanatics as opposed to morals and it shows. Sorry, but so long as the templars think they have a Maker-created duty to control mages, there will inevitable be abuses. Heck, what happens to Barris is a perfect example of what typically happens to moral Templars. They question something but the scumbag majority cajole the good templars into submission. This happened to Barris who quickly submitted once he was called out, along with the templar who killed the real Cole, along with what Cole says about the average good templar.

 

 

 

 

I know this shouldn't be my reaction, but I actually struggle not to cheer out loud whenever I play that particular scene. As morally objectionable as punching a defenseless civilian is, she was not doing anything to endear herself to me. And then afterwards she has the gall to blame me for her decision to summon the Templars, when all I wanted was to talk and she's the one who turned things violent.

 

Though on a less amoral note, we watch Delrin Barris question everthing that's going on that whole scene. Both the punching, and the refusal to work with the Inquisition. The argument for recruiting the Templars isn't so much "the asshat who punched the Revered Mother can be talked around" as "there's clearly Templars who don't agree with what's happening and can be reasoned with."

 

 

Again: the Templars are undeniably off the rails. 

 

(Well, that's true if we don't count the Hasmal Templars, who continue to guard their mages after the rebellion starts and contact the Inquisition regardless of who you recruit to seal The Breach when it becomes clear they don't have the wherewithal to protect them. Most of the Templars are off the rails, but you seem to be missing or ignoring evidence that there are bits of the Order that can be salvaged from where they've gone.)

 

 

Except we see Lucius hate on the Inquisition and even calls the templars who already joined the Inquistion traitors, especially if they work alongside a mage which makes them instant traitors to the rebel templars.

 

Like it or not, we saw how quickly Barris caved in. Plus, there is no guarantee the rest of the templars are like Barris. What would you do if you found out the majority of the templars hated the Inquistion and refused to join? Heck, at the start of COTJ, it seems to be going in that direction based on the random comments the templars say. The only reason they joined you is because you saved them from being killed.

 

That's also ignoring how you are abandoning the mages by going to the templars.

 

 

 

 

Well, she clearly understands that on some level or else she'd still be in her Tower. That, and she probably wouldn't be conceding that the Templars need to be kept under stricter control.

 

But you're oversimplifying Vivienne a lot. You're seeing what she wants you to see, rather than what for example Cole sees in her. Cole at one point drags up an image of Vivienne wandering her Circle tower and seeing mages she was responsible for who were killed by rebels for refusing to join up. They seem like the ones who don't care who they step on, leaving Vivienne to mourn their victims. And as for Templar abuses, if you make her Divine she takes actual control of the Templar Order.

If you sided with the templars, NO SHE DOESN'T. If you did, Trespasser reveals that regardless of whether you allied or conscripted the Templars, they form a new organization called the Silver Shield which is openly rebelling against her in an attempt to overthrow her because they refuse to serve a mage.

 

This shows that Vivienne can't control the templars if they have any power, but that the templars are still the same mage-hating assholes I've always hated. This further proves that letting them get corrupted by Corypheus did the whole world a favor.

[straykat]

I don't know if I'd say she was squandered. She provides a pro-Templar viewpoint that most mages do not have, and drives home to players who might have doubted it that there's a reason the Circle exists. She proves that a party member doesn't have to be the lucky one chosen by the PC in order to find romantic fulfillment (even if I selfishly wish she didn't.) She provides some comedy in her interactions with other companions.

 

But I certainly agree with the first bit.

 

I only meant that the game could have been served better with a lot more politics/war/and intrigue. And Vivienne probably would have stood out more in it.

 

Instead it's more of a generic hero game.. with an inclusive vanilla squad of do-gooders and no clear standpoint.. wandering around the countryside, fixing people's food shortages and such.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Except templars like Evangeline are the minority, and in case you forgot she actually left the Templars when she saw they were corrupt and wanted to kill mages. Plus if you sided with the templars, it's explicitely stated she can't be at Skyhold because the other templars still hate her, so she's not going to help the templars if you sided with them. Plus, the series has made it abundantly clear that templars who actually want to protect mages are the minority while the mage-haters are the majority.

 

This isn't help when the templar codex explicitely states that Templars are recruited more for being fanatical in following orders rather than actually having a conscience. They prefer fanatics as opposed to morals and it shows. Sorry, but so long as the templars think they have a Maker-created duty to control mages, there will inevitable be abuses. Heck, what happens to Barris is a perfect example of what typically happens to moral Templars. They question something but the scumbag majority cajole the good templars into submission. This happened to Barris who quickly submitted once he was called out, along with the templar who killed the real Cole, along with what Cole says about the average good templar.

The Inquisition seems to have recruited the moral ones, to judge by the War Table missions you get if you recruited them.  Or mostly moral. I don't believe it's actually stated that she can't be at Skyhold, merely that it would cause tension. Which is kinda understandable since she to all appearances is in favor of mage freedom.

 

 

Except we see Lucius hate on the Inquisition and even calls the templars who already joined the Inquistion traitors, especially if they work alongside a mage which makes them instant traitors to the rebel templars.

 

Like it or not, we saw how quickly Barris caved in.

Judging by the promotion scene where he reaches Knight-Commander, that's to some degree that's because Barris doesn't think he can be a leader and defers to those who think they can. Not to defend what he allowed due to his underestimating himself, but at least it's a good sign that he won't go power-mad. And the Templars acclaiming him as their leader is a good sign too.

 

Heck, at the start of COTJ, it seems to be going in that direction based on the random comments the templars say. The only reason they joined you is because you saved them from being killed.

Is this a metagame discussion, or an RP one? In an RP one the mages really do seem to be the better idea at first, but in a metagame one we know that they're both going to be a bit of a problem.

 

 

That's also ignoring how you are abandoning the mages by going to the templars.

This is another point which might or might not work depending on whether this discussion is metagame or RP. If it's RP, it's not so much abandoning them as siding against them, and if it's metagame you know you're abandoning someone. And at least the mages aren't being abandoned to red lyrium.

 

 

If you sided with the templars, NO SHE DOESN'T. If you did, Trespasser reveals that regardless of whether you allied or conscripted the Templars, they form a new organization called the Silver Shield which is openly rebelling against her in an attempt to overthrow her because they refuse to serve a mage.

 

This shows that Vivienne can't control the templars if they have any power, but that the templars are still the same mage-hating assholes I've always hated. This further proves that letting them get corrupted by Corypheus did the whole world a favor.

This point I'm going to have to leave to someone who has actually played Trespasser, since I haven't played it myself and am uncertain you've played it as an Inquisitor who conscripted with the Templars, much less one who allied with them. (Since that really doesn't seem to be your thing.) I tried looking on the wiki, but that didn't help. The one thing I can tell you is that the Silver Shield only seems to appear in the epilogue for DA:I's base game under pretty specific circumstances. I don't think they appeared in my Vivienne-epilogue where I conscripted the mages and she pretty much had to rebuild the Templars from nothing. (Which I suppose makes sense since in that case she's setting the hiring standards. Though since this is for the most part an entirely new Templar order I'm not sure it's relevant to whether the old was redeemable.)

[thesuperdarkone2]

 

 

 

Judging by the promotion scene where he reaches Knight-Commander, that's to some degree that's because Barris doesn't think he can be a leader and defers to those who think they can. Not to defend what he allowed due to his underestimating himself, but at least it's a good sign that he won't go power-mad. And the Templars acclaiming him as their leader is a good sign too.

 

Except he's a Knight-Commander, not a Knight-Vigilant. He may be good for his particular group of Templars, but there's no guarantee any of the other templars with other Knight-Commanders.

 

 

This point I'm going to have to leave to someone who has actually played Trespasser, since I haven't played it myself and am uncertain you've played it as an Inquisitor who conscripted with the Templars, much less one who allied with them. (Since that really doesn't seem to be your thing.) I tried looking on the wiki, but that didn't help. The one thing I can tell you is that the Silver Shield only seems to appear in the epilogue for DA:I's base game under pretty specific circumstances. I don't think they appeared in my Vivienne-epilogue where I conscripted the mages and she pretty much had to rebuild the Templars from nothing. (Which I suppose makes sense since in that case she's setting the hiring standards. Though since this is for the most part an entirely new Templar order I'm not sure it's relevant to whether the old was redeemable.)

Yes, I have played with a Divine Vivienne with conscripted templars and yes, the Silver Shield rebellion occurs regardless of if you allied with or conscripted the templars and Vivienne is Divine as shown in Trespasser.

 

Also, yes, there is video proof mentioning the silver shield:

https://youtu.be/6jydMBhWPEg?t=2m48s

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Wow.  You're just digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself here.  I'd say read over what you just wrote and tell me that doesn't sound sexist/racist, but sadly, I don't think you'd see it that way.  Frankly, I am getting angry because, as a woman, I find what you're saying pretty damn insulting to my gender.  The bolded is especially insulting, objectifying women.
 
So,you base your assumptions on the way she looks.  That's a tease????  Do you also believe that every good looking woman you meet or pass on the street is a "tease" simply because of the way she looks?  Are you really going to make the argument that because she doesn't look like an unattractive troll she's 'coming on to you'?  
 
She's a confident, beautiful character, who carries herself as such and embraces her femininity with charm and class.  How she looks is irrelevant, how she dresses is irrelevant, the color of her skin is irrelevant.   Skin has no more impact on her personality than it does on Cassandra, Leliana, or Morrigan (other confident, beautiful characters).  Morrigan's outfits are even more revealing than Vivienne's but outside of the warden in Origins she isn't 'a tease' coming on to you simply for how she looks.  You want to romance Vivienne because of the color of her skin, but 'can't have her', lamenting it like Bioware is playing keep-away with a toy you want.
 
Her relationship with the duke is not a personal attack on you.  It's part of her story arc, as intrinsic to the writing of her character as the love and expertise of the Game instilled into her, not some after thought Bioware just 'threw in the game' to ruin your love life.  And since every other significant female character in the game (with the exceptions of Leliana and Morrigan) are romanceable, maybe they actually wanted to have a woman as someone who could be viewed differently from 'someone you get to have' and debated over about her politics instead of just being 'a virtual male fantasy toy'.

Are you angry of what I said that I love black women or you trying to intimidate me because of what I said from my own point of view offends you?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Also, yes, there is video proof mentioning the silver shield:

https://youtu.be/6jydMBhWPEg?t=2m48s

Okay, but that doesn't quite justify the very bleak picture you painted of the Templars as a whole rebelling against her.

 

 

Except he's a Knight-Commander, not a Knight-Vigilant. He may be good for his particular group of Templars, but there's no guarantee any of the other templars with other Knight-Commanders.

At this point he is the Knight-Commander of the mainstream Templar Order. If I had to guess who the next Knight-Vigilant is, it'd either be him, or the Knight-Commander of Hasmal if Barris is still unsure of himself. (Of the two, I'd guess Barris, though the KC of Hasmal is not unacceptable given that he asks for your help pretty much no matter what side you take.)

 

 

Yes, I have played with a Divine Vivienne with conscripted templars and yes, the Silver Shield rebellion occurs regardless of if you allied with or conscripted the templars and Vivienne is Divine as shown in Trespasser.

 

I apologize for the assumption.

 

 

Are you angry of what I said that I love black women or you trying to intimidate me because of what I said from my own point of view offends you?

I think she's annoyed that you seem to be reducing Vivienne to a sex object.

[Tidus]

Riverdale,Once peace is secured there is always second thoughts and as the Templars rebelled others in the Chantry,Orlais and Ferelden may join or support the outing of a mage Devine. A full Holy war may be possible.

 

And its well known once Leliana becomes the Devine rules with a iron fist and orders assassinations of any one that opposes her rule and the changes she makes in the Chantry..

 

The Inquisition was haled as heros then was turned against as a possible threat to Orlais and Ferelden. One of those that spoke against the Inquisition is none other then Arl Teagan whose very village you saved. The other is the Queen whose life and throne you saved.

 

I will not share the outcome of the ending of Trespasser since you have two options concerning the Inquisition . Its seems to be a great game.. I can't wait to play it-- I've watched my son and Grandson play parts of it plus I watched a walk through on You Tube..

[thesuperdarkone2]

Riverdale,Once peace is secured there is always second thoughts and as the Templars rebelled others in the Chantry,Orlais and Ferelden may join or support the outing of a mage Devine. A full Holy war may be possible.

 

And its well known once Leliana becomes the Devine rules with a iron fist and orders assassinations of any one that opposes her rule and the changes she makes in the Chantry..

 

The Inquisition was haled as heros then was turned against as a possible threat to Orlais and Ferelden. One of those that spoke against the Inquisition is none other then Arl Teagan whose very village you saved. The other is the Queen whose life and throne you saved.

 

I will not share the outcome of the ending of Trespasser since you have two options concerning the Inquisition . Its seems to be a great game.. I can't wait to play it-- I've watched my son and Grandson play parts of it plus I watched a walk through on You Tube..

Leliana only does it if hardened. If softened, she doesn't

https://youtu.be/IJdk2ZpWRGA?t=2m32s

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Riverdale,Once peace is secured there is always second thoughts and as the Templars rebelled others in the Chantry,Orlais and Ferelden may join or support the outing of a mage Devine. A full Holy war may be possible.

 

And its well known once Leliana becomes the Devine rules with a iron fist and orders assassinations of any one that opposes her rule and the changes she makes in the Chantry..

If the intended takeaway is that Cassandra's the best choice I think we might be in agreement. For one thing, I can't think how anyone would justify an Exalted March on her. Then there's the apparently-fact that if she doesn't become Divine, Cassandra is unwilling to work with Vivienne and calls her a tyrant. (Or at least I think that happens in Trespasser. Does that happen?) If that happens I find it worrying, since Cassandra seems to be a morally upstanding woman who is not prone to slander or fits of jealousy.

[Tidus]

Darkone2,Thanks for that information.. I've only seen the harden Leliana.

 

RiverDale,I have not seen Vivi as Divine.. After my doctor's appointment this Tuesday I am going to stop at  Gamestop and buy DA:I "Game Of The Year".

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I think she's annoyed that you seem to be reducing Vivienne to a sex object.

I never intended that she should be a sex object and nothing else, I merely said that they've obviously have her as a tease "You can look at her. Talk to her. But you can't romance her." vibe thus making her an attractive, classy, sexy, and powerful black woman that makes men want to have a relationship with her, that's what I'm trying to tell her. I just find that suspicious of how they set up for not to have Vivienne as a romance option like everybody else. Cause I want to get to know her better by having a relationship with her and that's all I wanted.

[Sealaria]

Once I uploaded her Enchanter's Seat to the Golden Nug, I officially had no reason to recruit Vivienne anymore.

Pretty much that in a nutshell.  Can't stand the Vivienne character.  

[Witch Cocktor]

Vivienne is my divine of choice. Ayy.