94 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

She's comparing humanity to the dog, and the Council to humanity (fun inversion, there, to get us to see that their reaction is so very "human") but what the analogy misses is that people would actually try and save their dog. That's besides the point, though. 

 

With the alien line, we have to be fair that she's actually seen vids etc. that show other aliens. I've never been to China, for example, but I have some idea of what it looks like because TV and the internet exist. So we can clearly say that Ashley should know some aliens. 

 

I think what ME1 fails to convey to us as the player is how diverse the Citadel is - we only see the races that Bioware has models for - but we should be seeing hundreds of diverse aliens in hugely different styles of dress. 

 

 

We are limited by the models that BioWare created in that regard true. Ashely may have a rudimentary knowledge of China (the Citadel and other alien races) but it doesn't really prepare you for the culture shock of being smack dab in the middle of things. Now she is a little crass when she makes her remark, but that doesn't make her a racist xenophobe. It's the whole country bumpkin arriving in the big city troupe. 

 

Spoiler

Kinda like Adam Webber in "A Blast from the Past" albeit taken for comedic effect

 

 

Skip to 2:17 for the relevant part

 

As for the hunting dog analogy, yeah most people would try to save their dog, but if it came down to you or your (human) family vs. a beloved pet… As much as we love our cats and dogs, they don't equate to the value of human life in a general sense. Her analogy rings true when we get to ME 3 at any rate, with all the other aliens looking out for their own interests.

[BraveVesperia]

Most of Ashley's alien-related comments come from ignorance, rather than genuine intolerance or 'space racism' imo. Like her 'can't tell the animals from the aliens' comment. It's similar to the ship's cook in ME2 talking about how asari eating calamari seems 'a little cannabalistic'. Or even people irl who affectionately compare Garrus/Thane/Mordin to dinosaurs/lizards/newts/birds etc.

 

And to be fair, most of the aliens have ignorant comments about other races at some point. Most of the other squadmates in ME1 misjudge Wrex purely because he's krogan. Garrus will make a judgemental remark about the quarians to Tali. Jacob refers to Garrus as a 'cuttlebone' in one conversation. Mordin doesn't have a high opinion of the krogan. Javik has various lines in ME3 about how other races are primitive and inferior in some way. Even Shepard has the funny "you big stupid jellyfish" line to a hanar. That sort of thing is hardly unique to Ashley.

[ZipZap2000]

Garrus the Turian racist.

Took a rocket to his face.

And if you ever saw him.

He'd insult you and your race.

Sometimes he'd sit with Ashley.

And call the other races names.

And if they tried to talk back.

They'd put a bullet through their brains.

Then when foggy Christmas eve, hitler came to say.

Garrus with your racist pride, help me com-mit gen-o-cide.

Then all the nazis loved him.

And they shouted out with glee.

Yippeee.

Garrus the Turian racist.

You'll ride on the Nor-mandy.



*Krogan guitar solo*

Derner ner ner neeeerrrrr. Nerner neeerrr.

[Jalepeno Fire]

"I can't tell the people from the animals." - An actual Ashley Williams quote.

"I'd have killed the Geth with no regrets" - An actual Tali Zorah quote, post Rannoch. 

 

Seriously, if any squad member was racist it would be Tali (or maybe Grunt). But she gets a pass because she's cute I guess.

[AlleyD]

We can hear Brandon Keener in Fallout 4 too. I mean you mentioned The Division, I wasn't aware he voiced a character in that game (haven't played it, probably never will either, not my kinda game). But he's in Fallout 4. Not sure if it's specific to my saved game, but in my Fallout 4 game he's the voice of one specific settler in my settlement who happens to be a doctor (a black man NPC). He doesn't have a name, he's seemingly just another generic settler #357 or something. I am the one who assigned him to the task (assigned him at one of my settlement clinics). I wonder if he voices more characters in the game though (not sure I've heard him elsewhere so far). But yeah, it makes me smile to hear Garrus asking me to describe my symptoms. When I first realized "OMG, that's GARRUS!" I imagined my character asking for calibrations.

 

And even better, the female voice for Fallout 4's Survivor is Courtenay Taylor, and that's Jack's voice actress. Even more amazing is the fact that she doesn't sound that different in Fallout 4. She's of course more dramatic and aggressive in ME2, but she has a lot of similarities with ME3's Jack (a bit more calm and reserved / controlled compared to ME2's Jack). That's like Jack asking Garrus for calibrations. I know, it's all kinds of wrong, but the feels man, the feels.

 

I got thrown out of the Fallout 4 universe the moment I heard Courtenay Taylor's va as she stepped out of Cryofreeze. I started to think more and more of JAck as I played along. Then I recognized Thane's VA (Keythe Farley) was the freelance assassin who kidnapped the kid and then I bumped into Garrus (Brandon Keener) several times.

 

I gave up playing Fallout 4. I modded it with ME related mods and started doing fan fiction stuff for a post apocalyptic Mass Effect . I realised then I was not over my addiction to Mass Effect and returned to BSN. 

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

"I'd have killed the Geth with no regrets" - An actual Tali Zorah quote, post Rannoch. 

 

Seriously, if any squad member was racist it would be Tali (or maybe Grunt). But she gets a pass because she's cute I guess.

I believe she says "And I would have been wrong." right after that sentence, though?

[aoibhealfae]

Honestly, Garrus only like that Shepard is a Spectre. The first thing he was overly excited about was about you being able to do everything you want without consequences. Which is kinda stupid considering he's a cop.

Btw, I remember Tali asking him whether the Turians was properly contrite about unleashing genophage on the krogans and his response was why he should be contrite and "it was not a mistake". Garrus is very Pro-"Kill the children because they're all going to grow up to be terrorist". Does it still make you feel warm and cuddly inside?

 

Geth don't have kids. Ashley never say anything or condone anything about killing anyone, she's just "humanity need to be strong and we can't look weak against the aliens". Garrus is pro-genocide on BABIES and from his convos in the elevators and the krogan statue, he's very proud of it too. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Honestly, Garrus only like that Shepard is a Spectre. The first thing he was overly excited about was about you being able to do everything you want without consequences. Which is kinda stupid considering he's a cop.

Btw, I remember Tali asking him whether the Turians was properly contrite about unleashing genophage on the krogans and his response was why he should be contrite and "it was not a mistake". Garrus is very Pro-"Kill the children because they're all going to grow up to be terrorist". Does it still make you feel warm and cuddly inside?

 

Geth don't have kids. Ashley never say anything or condone anything about killing anyone, she's just "humanity need to be strong and we can't look weak against the aliens". Garrus is pro-genocide on BABIES and from his convos in the elevators and the krogan statue, he's very proud of it too. 

 

His attitude and opinion change over the course of the trilogy, depending on Shepard's influence. You can tell him in ME1 that consequences matter or you can agree with him. In ME3 he and Wrex are friends and by then Garrus will have a better understanding of what the genophage actually is and does to the krogan people.

 

He's still a rebel at heart... but it's a heart of gold.

[straykat]

I can't blame him for his opinions on Krogan.

 

I honestly believe they're borderline worthless. The writers went out of their way to not give them any productive/positive traits. Not one.

 

But there's one main reason that really puts them into that camp for me. Wrex says they're not even suited to be colonists, in ME1. They can't even make the most basic steps towards building something resembling society/community. And if that was going to change, it'd change with or without the Genophage cure. They'd already be trying it.

 

So I can't blame the average Turian like Garrus. They've seen it longer than anyone. And were victims of them.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I can't blame him for his opinions on Krogan.

 

I honestly believe they're borderline worthless. The writers went out of their way to not give them any positive traits. None. Not one.

 

For one reason: Wrex says they're not even suited to be colonists, in ME1. They can't even make the most basic steps towards building something resembling society/community. And if that was going to change, it'd change with or without the Genophage cure. It isn't going to magically change, just because they get cured or one person (Eve) waves her hands around.

 

You're scratching too much on the surface here. Someone here has a sig that says, "ME plot is like gravity in Looney Toons... it's fine as long as you don't think about it but the moment you look, you will fall down into the canyon." (Or something similiar)

 

Basically all codex entries about the various species are either illogical, contradictory, nonsensical or written with an extreme human bias. Or all of the above.

 

Same is true for the genophage. Mordin says he adjusted it to reduce the birthrate... but that's not what happens. Instead of krogan females having just one baby instead of 1000, only one out of 1000 is fertile. Which a. makes no sense and b. wouldn't work. Considering that this happened almost a millenium ago, all the newly born krogan since then would have inherited the fertility or the species would have died out by now. Otherwise I'd have to assume that the Salarians created an intelligent virus that randomly turns select females fertile with a statistical chance of 1:1000. Or each female has to try out thousands of males to find the one who "unlocks" the right genes for the baby to live.

 

The galaxy is treating the krogan as if they hadn't changed in hundreds of years. They were a pre-spaceflight civilization who already discovered nuclear fission. Meaning, they were us. Are we unfit to join the galactic society, too? What about in 1000 years?

[straykat]

 

 

The galaxy is treating the krogan as if they hadn't changed in hundreds of years. They were a pre-spaceflight civilization who already discovered nuclear fission. Meaning, they were us. Are we unfit to join the galactic society, too? What about in 1000 years?

 

If we nuke ourselves like that, no.

 

But I don't see that as a pattern with us just yet. Not like the Krogan. World Leader wise, the only person that acts that stupid is Kim Jong Un. Maybe Trump if he wins (he won't).

[DaemionMoadrin]

If we nuke ourselves like that, no.

 

But I don't see that as a pattern with us just yet. Not like the Krogan. World Leader wise, the only person that acts that stupid is Kim Jong Un. Maybe Trump if he wins (he won't).

 

We got very, very close to nuking ourselves several times during the Cold War. Stuff like accidently dropping nukes on the USA (luckily they weren't armed and didn't go off), the Cuban Missile Crisis, one russian officer keeping calm and asking for confirmation instead of firing a missile and half a dozen other incidents. It was pure luck that we didn't blow up the planet. Oh, and the risk is still there. Just look at the hilarious security in some nuclear silos. In some you can walk right in because the lock is broken and no one fixed it. Or if you deliver fast food, they'll wave you right through.

 

Thing is... the Krogan had a functioning society once. Science, art, culture. That all fell apart when they went Mad Max/Fallout and it was only then that the Salarians found them. Of course they didn't make a great first impression (still better than the Yahg though). Tuchanka was only rubble, of course they wanted to live elsewhere.

The Council could have supervised their colonization efforts, regulated their expansion, prevented them from destroying their new worlds with pollution and basically uplifted them correctly until they were ready to be on their own.

Instead they gave them access to everything they had, used their high reproduction rates as weapon against the Rachni and then disposed of them when they weren't needed anymore.

The Council is just as guilty for the Krogan rebellion as the Krogan are.

[straykat]

We got very, very close to nuking ourselves several times during the Cold War. Stuff like accidently dropping nukes on the USA (luckily they weren't armed and didn't go off), the Cuban Missile Crisis, one russian officer keeping calm and asking for confirmation instead of firing a missile and half a dozen other incidents. It was pure luck that we didn't blow up the planet. Oh, and the risk is still there. Just look at the hilarious security in some nuclear silos. In some you can walk right in because the lock is broken and no one fixed it. Or if you deliver fast food, they'll wave you right through.

 

Thing is... the Krogan had a functioning society once. Science, art, culture. That all fell apart when they went Mad Max/Fallout and it was only then that the Salarians found them. Of course they didn't make a great first impression (still better than the Yahg though). Tuchanka was only rubble, of course they wanted to live elsewhere.

The Council could have supervised their colonization efforts, regulated their expansion, prevented them from destroying their new worlds with pollution and basically uplifted them correctly until they were ready to be on their own.

Instead they gave them access to everything they had, used their high reproduction rates as weapon against the Rachni and then disposed of them when they weren't needed anymore.

The Council is just as guilty for the Krogan rebellion as the Krogan are.

 

Close, yes... but it was never this kind of belligerence. It was still treated gravely.

 

In any case, I know the Krogan had a better culture once.. but if they're so lost that they can't even entertain the idea of simply living and colonizing somewhere.. then screw them. That shouldn't be on my head. And I hate that Wrex and Eve promise to finally do this "if only". They make no steps themselves towards goodwill. It's all on everyone else first.

 

I'm not going to be guilted into it. The writers intentionally set out to make a crappy race, and expect me to see the tiniest sliver of hope in it just because it's "a form of life".

[ZipZap2000]

I wouldn't wanna be the guy responsible for unleashing hordes of crazy humans, breeding out of control and fighting each other, over everything, everywhere they go. That's bound to get out of hand soon enough.

So I actually agree with the analogy there.

Garrus V Ashley is interesting. On the one hand in Garrus, you have an out of control killer chanting vigilante justice to himself in his sleep. Where as with Ashley, you have the justifying ideology that creates a monster like Garrus to begin with. Like two sides of the same coin.

[Kierro Ren]

The Division is just Watchdogs 2.0, and like anything Ubisoft related it is going to be disappointing.

 

Somebody thought he'd be a badass and go into the Dark Zone at Lv 10, only to get popped by a lv 13-15 NPC/player. Now the whole game is trash.

[Kierro Ren]

Watch Dogs was a disappointment, and I've been holding off on buying The Division.  And if The Division is Watch_Dogs with a Tom Clancy skin, then I shall not buy.  

 

I don't see the connection with Watchdogs. In The Division, you don't drive cars, you aren't on a Max Payne-Taken "I'll hunt you down, I will find you, and I will kill you." Family drama. It's a coverbase-third-person-strategy-RPGShooter about some random no named guy/woman agent, thrown into New York City, while it's under attack by looters, escaped convicts, and a new strand off small pox. I've heard some people call it an non-MMO-MMO, others say it's what Destiny should of been. You collect guns and armor, white, green, blue, purple, gold. As well mod them. Add white, green, blue, purple, and gold mods; Stat boost for armor, scopes, magazines, hand grips/laser dots, suppressors, muzzle brake etc etc. CC is limited, but half the time you'll have a gas mask on, so you really don't notice. However, costumes are endless, you can dress as a cop, USMC, Hazmat, and many hats coats, and pants. Even a Medic, Fire Fighter, another Cop, and a fourth I can't remember. But a code is required, AGENTORIGINS on the Uplay site. Just sign in your Uplay account. In the Dark Zone or PvP, it's wacked. You can join in firefights in the Dark Zone, between players and the four factions; Cleaners, Looters, Rikers, Rogue NPC/player Agents. The Dark Zone is a little nerve racking, because you and your friends can come across another group and team up against a horde of enemies. However, that group could easily turn on you at any second and steal your group's loot. I don't remember a Multiplayer in Watchdogs. I'm quite happy with The Division.

[aoibhealfae]

His attitude and opinion change over the course of the trilogy, depending on Shepard's influence. You can tell him in ME1 that consequences matter or you can agree with him. In ME3 he and Wrex are friends and by then Garrus will have a better understanding of what the genophage actually is and does to the krogan people.

 

He's still a rebel at heart... but it's a heart of gold.

 

In Mass Effect 3, he confide you with "If it wasn't my people that needed help, I would have taken the Salarian's deal" and he walk away thinking that its cute that you don't kill off an entire race. Does this sound like someone who remembered that he befriended a Krogan Clan leader or sympathise with his cause and Eve's plight and their fight to free their people? And oddly enough, I wish I could have said it back that the Krogans are still afflicted by the genophage only that the 'cure' simply make the females to be able to carry their babies to full-term instead of born premature and dead. But no, just like Ashley and the Geth, (she still calls as tin cans), Garrus is still the same turian with his own generalized prejudice only that he learn to keep his mouth shut. Only Garrus carefully apologized to Tali after Rannoch arc about what he said to her in ME1 but even so it didn't erase his sentiment about the quarians (if you bring him to Reaper Base on Rannoch, he will have an ambient dialogue about the Quarians have it coming for them and he didn't care about either Geth or Quarians except that's he's really in distraught if Geth was chosen and Tali killed herself.

And no. None of your choice in ME1 or ME2 even matters with Garrus. He is always loyal in ME3 since the only requirement is that he's alive in your playthrough - even if you never recruit him in ME1 or if you never complete his loyalty quests and never talk to him at all. His entire narrative was written so he could become Shepard's best friend as a default. Shepard have a lot more influence on Conrad Verner than him.

[Master Warder Z_]

Shepard have a lot more influence on Conrad Verner than him.

He was under a log of stress at the time.

[straykat]

In Mass Effect 3, he confide you with "If it wasn't my people that needed help, I would have taken the Salarian's deal" and he walk away thinking that its cute that you don't kill off an entire race.

 

Because it IS cute.

 

In any case, I have to step away from it.. I feel like all of the AI and Krogan stuff has a lot of emotional manipulation in it. I don't like entertaining genocide. It's not fun. But I can't bring myself to take it all that seriously. They construct near impossible problems in their world building and then try to make you feel good about ignoring that out of sentimental reasons.

[Le Pointy Finger Man]

wew lad

[aoibhealfae]

Because it IS cute.

 

In any case, I have to step away from it.. I feel like all of the AI and Krogan stuff has a lot of emotional manipulation in it. I don't like entertaining genocide. It's not fun. But I can't bring myself to take it all that seriously. They construct near impossible problems in their world building and then try to make you feel good about ignoring that out of sentimental reasons.

 

I'd expect some sort of passive aggressiveness but with his nasal voice, it was even harder to see him sneering. As if it wasn't bad that all renegade dialogues with him in ME2 and ME3 was mostly neutral and you're never in direct conflict with him either way.

 

Then again, I don't judge his fans, he was rewritten to be an ever loyal lovable bigot after all.  

[ZipZap2000]

 

He's still a rebel at heart... but it's a heart of gold.

 

 

Only if you're female.

 

Garrus will barely even talk to BroShep he's literally living out a murderous boyhood fantasy where he gets to banging the commander and dishing out his brand of vigilante justice to everyone he comes across. It's actually quite devious and even deviant behaviour when you think about it. He doesn't give that much of a stuff about even the rest of Palaven so long his family got out he's cool. 

[Vortex13]

Only if you're female.

Garrus will barely even talk to BroShep he's literally living out a murderous boyhood fantasy where he gets to banging the commander and dishing out his brand of vigilante justice to everyone he comes across. It's actually quite devious and even deviant behaviour when you think about it. He doesn't give that much of a stuff about even the rest of Palaven so long his family got out he's cool.

Well really, I wouldn't give too much of a fuss about the rest of Earth as long my family got out okay, so I can't really fault him on that front.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Ok, you guys convinced me. Garrus is still a jerk.

[Quarian Master Race]

"I'd have killed the Geth with no regrets" - An actual Tali Zorah quote, post Rannoch. 

 

Seriously, if any squad member was racist it would be Tali (or maybe Grunt). But she gets a pass because she's cute I guess.

Except that since toasters aren't people or even living things, it is impossible to be racist in regard to them. People forget that because Legion's wittle face flaps are so cute, I guess.

Tali doesn't like AI technologies. The modern equivalent would be something like the anti-nuclear movement. Both are dumb ideas based primarily upon Neo-Luddism, but neither is racist by any reasonable definition of the term in either universe.