50 réponses à ce sujet

[Verasas]

I am sure I am not the only one who's opinion is that the 7 sealed Elven Gods are the 7 sleeping Old Gods.  The dragon is there symbol and Flemeth who is part Mythal's splintered spirit is a dragon.  I think all Elven Gods splintered their souls into a Dragon. Thus when they were sealed it was what was left over.  It was Mythal's dragon that is with Flemeth.  The rest of her was murdered.  

I feel like the Fade is to Void to what the Veil is the Fade.  I have a feeling the blight is related to the Forgotten Ones who are Elven mages forgotten with their use or connection to the void.  They seem to be some elves that lived deep in the deep roads where the void physically was.  Maybe the void has a connection to the Titans, dwarves and Lyrium of both kinds.  

 

Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands.

 

 

Maybe she used red lyrium or just lyrium in general for armor.  

 

Tthe Creators are gods of justice, knowledge and craft, who seek to guide and protect the elven people, the Forgotten Ones are by contrast a dark mirror presiding over arguably the worst aspects of existence: disease, terror, spite and malevolence.

 

 

Sounds a lot like the blight.  

 

To me there are two reasonable scenarios to make sense of this.  

 

1.  The Elven Gods were corrupted with the blight and Solas created the veil to split the Fade from the world to store the Elven Gods and used the Fade to buffer the Void trapping the Forgotten ones outside of everything.  This just left the Elven Gods with their dragons with part of the spirit left to sleep.  

 

The Elven Gods talked to the Tevinter mages into going to their domain the black city in the fade by making it appear golden.  This lead to the mages being cast back down and spreading their taint.  They used the mages to wake up their bodies trapped in the deep roads.  

 

2.  The Elven Gods were in the Fade but their corruption in the Fade made them loyal to the Forgotten Ones.  The Forgotten Ones were trapped in the Deep Roads and Elven Gods tricked the mages into become blight carriers to free the Forgotten Ones.

 

I think number one makes the most sense because of the corruption.  Why would the Forgotten Ones need to be corrupted?  

[vertigomez]

I think if 'it was ancient elves' is the answer to all of DA's big mysteries, I'ma have to show myself out.

That bit about everyone forgetting Andruil's true face is interesting, though. Where are the Sera conspiracy theorists?!

[straykat]

I could have sworn Gaider seperated the elven gods from this. But I can't find it. It was on the old board.

[Obadiah]

I like #1 but you have to work in the Titans.

[vertigomez]

I'm holding out for zanier explanations. The Avvar will call any old powerful spirit a god, which seems to be what the elves did... maybe dragons are Thedas's collective hold-beast. All hail Korth the Mountain-Father, MacDaddy to the dwarves!

Or... something something, eh, something... the human-built pyramids on Par Vollen?

[thats1evildude]

Nope, it's far from official. It makes very little sense, in fact.

There's more evidence linking the Old Gods to the qunari than the elves.

[Andromelek]

I could have sworn Gaider seperated the elven gods from this. But I can't find it. It was on the old board.

He once said they were more like the Forgotten Ones.

My theory is that Old Gods=Great Dragons.

[ArcaneEsper]

There's more evidence linking the Old Gods to the qunari than the elves.

Is this purely because of the implied link between Qunari and Dragons or is there other evidence as well?

[Big I]

It's not official. I think the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones (Geldauran etc), imprisoned in the Deep Roads by the Evanuris some time after the elves defeated the Titans.

[thats1evildude]

Is this purely because of the implied link between Qunari and Dragons or is there other evidence as well?

 

The "Freed Are Slaves" mosaic suggests a link as well:

 

I think this one is called "Freed Are Slaves," which is exactly the kind of "saying words but meaning different things" I expect from a Tevinter. There's lies in the carving, too, but I'll come back to that.

Subject aside, I like this. It's workmanlike, but in a good dwarven way. It repeats because the carver knows what she's good at, so she does it again and again. Makes me think she has more than a passing knowledge of the Stone.

That said, there's two sets of hands involved, one old, one new. Take this magister. He's glowing because he's fresh. Newer. Same with his trophies flanking him. Carved down from more complex figures. And the flat next to them - seems plain, doesn't it? The bottom is filled with detail, but this is left an open field? No, that's just what it is now, but there's shadows for a clever eye. So, what was here if not this handsome magister wanting his cod stuffed? Someone else instead of him and his friends, and two more figures on each side. Seven total.

Only the top was changed. The Qunari haven't been touched; that's old wear down there. When it was first done and hundreds of years later, yoked Qunari prisoners still fit. I don't suppose it's for the same reasons.

I can only say the what, not the why. I can guess that someone wanted to be a Tevinter hero and paid to have their face carved on an antiquity. I mean, that's a crime against ancestors where I'm from, but I don't expect Tevinters to obey dwarven honor. Or their own, really. They've been at war a long time, so I understand wanting to seem big.

 

Seven figures reigning over the Qunari=Seven Old Gods? It's a theory, but it makes as much sense as anything.

[ArcaneEsper]

*snip*

Thanks for the info, I've never really finished any mosaics so I had no idea about this.

At any rate I just hope the Archdemons aren't a Ghilan'nain experiment gone wrong or sth because there are only so many Elven lore bombs I can handle, in succession.

[The Night Haunter]

The Elven Gods are not the Old Gods, the Elven gods are sealed somewhere in the Fade (that's why Solas put up the fade in the first place). The Old Gods are most likely the Forgotton Ones of Elven legend, beings who challenged the Elven Gods and drew even, until Fen'Harel sealed both sides away (this may be untrue as we only know Solas put up the Fade to seal the Elven gods, he makes no mention of the Forgotton Ones, they may have been sealed earlier than that).

Given that the Old Gods are so closely linked with the Gold/Black City, it seems likely they attempted what Corypheus did, failed, and were sealed underground (and apparently can only awaken after being corrupted), they later used their power to reach out to Cory and his kin, and tried to get them to breach the Golden City (either to somehow free themselves, or maybe to get revenge on whomever imprisoned them).

 

Regardless there are two groups of Gods in Dalish lore, the Gods of the Elvhenan, and the Forgotton Ones. It seems far more likely that the Old Gods (dragons, not elves. Since Solas was an elf we can safely conclude the rest of his ilk were Elves first and at most possessed the capability to transform into dragons) are the Forgotton Ones, while those sealed away in the Fade by Solas (potentially in the Golden City, potentially elsewhere) are the Elven Gods.

[Gervaise]

The problem with all of these is the business of shutting them away.   Solas claimed he shut away the Evanuris.   For all we know that could mean both the Creators and the Forgotten Ones.   Certainly that is what Dalish legend claims he did, which for the most part has been proven true so far as the Creators are concerned.    However, if the Forgotten Ones were shut away in the Abyss/Void as the legend claims, then how are they in the form of dragons in the earth?

 

Gelduran, one of the Forgotten Ones, is quoted in JoH.    Like Solas he doesn't even recognise the Creators as gods, although it does suggest that he was planning on doing something to claim dominance once the Creators were out of the way   Did he assist Solas in raising the Veil?

 

I had wondered if the dragons sleeping underground were the split soul companions of the elven gods, left outside the Veil when it went up, that simply went into hibernation to await the return of their other half.   I still don't necessarily think they are one and the same with the old gods who spoke to the Neromenian Dreamers from the Fade.    They already had a dragon cult and the early tribes may have seen the dragons flying around when the Evanuris were still active and Andruil was hunting the mortal humans for sport.  

 

I have questioned in another post how exactly people identified that the arch demons are the old gods apart from the fact that they are huge powerful dragons that can do magic.   The writer in the Fade says he recognised the god from making offerings at the Temple, in other words from a picture.    I'm pretty sure it was stated that it was Andraste who said that the first archdemon was Dumat.     However, she also came from barbarian tribes that were familiar with the idea of spirit being called into a dragon and called a god.   Subsequent Blights took place long after the majority of people had stopped worshipping the old gods, so how did they know which archdemon was which god?   And why did the gods stop talking to their priests?

 

I wouldn't necessarily hold much store by anything that David Gaider previously said regarding either the elven gods, Forgotten Ones, or old gods, since it wouldn't be the first time that lore has been changed as part of the evolving story.    It seems to me that much of what we knew previously about the various gods came from the teachings of Andraste and they really don't fit with what has transpired since, particularly concerning the activities of the elven gods and Solas.

[Lazarillo]

My current going theory is that the "old gods" that led the Magisters to the Golden City were probably the Evanuris.  However, they weren't actually the "old gods" that are now identified as the Archdemons of the Blight.  Or, in short, the dragons were there, and they came from...something (I like the idea of them being tied to the origins of the Qunari, as was suggested above), but the voice that Corfishystix identified as "Dumat", for example, was just someone else pretending to be that same dragon, and that that someone else was, specifically, one of the old Elven pantheon.

[Aulis Vaara]

No, it's not official that the two are the same, and in fact it's pretty obvious that they are not. Solas would not need plans against the Elven gods if the Wardens were already well on their way to killing them, and he would not rage against the Warden for killing the Archdemons, even when done pre-emptively.

My current going theory is that the "old gods" that led the Magisters to the Golden City were probably the Evanuris.  However, they weren't actually the "old gods" that are now identified as the Archdemons of the Blight.  Or, in short, the dragons were there, and they came from...something (I like the idea of them being tied to the origins of the Qunari, as was suggested above), but the voice that Corfishystix identified as "Dumat", for example, was just someone else pretending to be that same dragon, and that that someone else was, specifically, one of the old Elven pantheon.

^ This is also my working theory at the moment. Not sure it's correct and my idea of the dragons is a little different, but yeah, this seems more likely. And the fact that the Evanuris went silent after this is likely related to he Taint. Oh, and Solas doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

[Heimdall]

Me running theory is that the Old Gods were the most powerful and intelligent Dragons long ago. The war that elevated the Evanuris to godhood was with them (Hence the story about Elgar'nan defeating the sun and hiding it underground). The Titans only came later.

[Verasas]

My current going theory is that the "old gods" that led the Magisters to the Golden City were probably the Evanuris.  However, they weren't actually the "old gods" that are now identified as the Archdemons of the Blight.  Or, in short, the dragons were there, and they came from...something (I like the idea of them being tied to the origins of the Qunari, as was suggested above), but the voice that Corfishystix identified as "Dumat", for example, was just someone else pretending to be that same dragon, and that that someone else was, specifically, one of the old Elven pantheon.

 

I think the dragons are their Elven Gods bodies and a fragment of their soul.  The biggest problem is why would the Old Gods call the darkspawn to them if they're not connected to the blight in the first place. But why would the Old Gods want to be blighted? 

[In Exile]

I think the dragons are their Elven Gods bodies and a fragment of their soul.  The biggest problem is why would the Old Gods call the darkspawn to them if they're not connected to the blight in the first place. But why would the Old Gods want to be blighted? 

I think you're half right. The dragons are likely their bodies. But we've already seen the hint of what the Old Gods are, with Hakkon. Abominations. If they can stuff the soul of a demon or spirit into a dragon and force it to try and be a god, what's to say that the broken Elvhen didn't try to re-create their gods by shoving the soul of a spirit into the bodies of their silent gods? 

[Aren]

Nope, it's far from official. It makes very little sense, in fact.

There's more evidence linking the Old Gods to the qunari than the elves.

 care to explain?

[Aren]

 

I have questioned in another post how exactly people identified that the arch demons are the old gods

The GW can hear the old gods,they know who they are and where they are.

The Architect found an original old god and he saw his transformations into the archdemon of the 5th blight.

He was the old god named Urthemiel ,there is nothing that can be retconned here.

[Aren]

I think you're half right. The dragons are likely their bodies. But we've already seen the hint of what the Old Gods are, with Hakkon. Abominations. If they can stuff the soul of a demon or spirit into a dragon and force it to try and be a god, what's to say that the broken Elvhen didn't try to re-create their gods by shoving the soul of a spirit into the bodies of their silent gods? 

How do you know that the old gods aren't simply ancient shapeshifters with the entirety of their soul rather than a fragment?

We know from the lore that high dragons or great dragons can't be males, so this is a good indications to say that old gods aren't possessed dragons to begin with.

Who's to say that Flemeth didn't  simply wanted to revive the Old god in it's entirety with the same ritual Merrill did to her? and poof we discover that he was a person shapeshifter?

[Verasas]

I think you're half right. The dragons are likely their bodies. But we've already seen the hint of what the Old Gods are, with Hakkon. Abominations. If they can stuff the soul of a demon or spirit into a dragon and force it to try and be a god, what's to say that the broken Elvhen didn't try to re-create their gods by shoving the soul of a spirit into the bodies of their silent gods? 

 

Well, I think the Elven Gods are just powerful mages.  One thing you have to remember is that the spirits were on the same plane because the Fade is something cut from the planet by Solas creating the Veil.  He created the Veil to lock away the Elven Gods and Forgotten Ones.  I am not sure spirits could possess people before they were separated and some seemingly became jealous of men. At least the Demon ones.  

 

I think the Forgotten Ones are somewhere unaccessible.  I think the Elven Gods were sealed along with Arlathan in the Fade, the golden/black city.  I think he did this because they were blighted by or fighting the Forgotten ones and causing civil wars.  This sealed away the blight until the mages were lured there by the blighted elves. Or maybe the blight is the Elves blood mage used to awaken themselves.  

 

Just seems weird that the Old Gods would call to darkspawn to corrupt themselves.  I think the Old Gods are just uncorrupted Elven God's body with a small portion of their spirit.  

[myahele]

I unfortunately don't have it with me, but I do remember Corypheus et al. was scared that the Old Gods have stopped communicating with them 

 

Until one day Corypheus heard a "whisper that told them to enter the Golden City" to free them and to gain extra power.

 

I found it strange, that the Old Gods would wait such a long time to do such a thing.

 

I theorize that the Old Gods somehow ended getting locked away. forced into their Dragon Bodies and then it was the Evanuris that manipulated them into it. The Blight/Taint was a failsafe.

 

Anyways, there's some truth to some legends and Mythal convinced Elgar'nan to spare the Sun. Many people think that the Sun could have been a Great Primordial Dragon. Who knows? Maybe they split up into the 7 Old Gods?

[Mistic]

I unfortunately don't have it with me, but I do remember Corypheus et al. was scared that the Old Gods have stopped communicating with them

 

I see this theory repeated several times, but I've never seen the in-game source of that. The text on The Claws of Dumat says Corypheus and his fellow priests were fearful about the loss of followers, since people are deviating from the way of the Old Gods. It never says they stopped whispering to them. In fact, it adds that lately Corypheus only listens "to the voices in his dreams".

 

I guess people associated the fear to lack of communication, but that was just guessing. Personally, it sounds more like "young people today are going down the wrong path!". Every mention of the Old Gods silent so far (unless I missed something) is clearly set after the beginning of the First Blight.

[kann.nix9mm]

Interesting. Repeat a theory often enough and slowly it becomes fact ...

 

The Old Gods maybe dragons but only Mythal has any connection to dragons whatsoever.