414 réponses à ce sujet

[lynroy]

The real question is... will our new protagonist get their very own mabari warhound, or did Quizzie finally buck the trend?

You will have the option to have either better hair or a Mabari. You will not be able to choose both.

[vertigomez]

You will have the option to have either better hair or a Mabari. You will not be able to choose both.

I'll have to protest the game, then. PC's gonna shave their head and adopt a cat.

[dsl08002]

The fact so many people have said exactly what you have said shows that they didn't conclusively tie off the Inquisitor's story. And if it was just people "head cannoning" stuff, most people would have the same opinion on exactly why. I wonder how they plan on satisfying everyone when so many feel we've been cut short on story content for our PC, 2 times already. Oh well

And given what has happened in the past i dont think that bioware can handle another new PC and previous character union again. It just doesnt work for the majority.

[Smudjygirl]

And given what has happened in the past i dont think that bioware can handle another new PC and previous character union again. It just doesnt work for the majority.

 

For me, having a PC become an NPC is a bad idea. Hawke had a set personality and failed miserably to satisfy anyone, and i even RP mine as a blood magic hating spirit healer. Her personality was diplomatic. Even i found her cameo "off" and i tried my best to like it. The Inquisitor doesn't have the blessing of a set personality, so i just can't seem NPC Inquisitor as a good idea.

[Catilina]

I'll have to protest the game, then. PC's gonna shave their head and adopt a cat.

[vertigomez]

Oh my god Catilina, spoiler alert! You can't just leak shots from the game!

[Shechinah]

For me, having a PC become an NPC is a bad idea. Hawke had a set personality and failed miserably to satisfy anyone, and i even RP mine as a blood magic hating spirit healer. Her personality was diplomatic. Even i found her cameo "off" and i tried my best to like it. The Inquisitor doesn't have the blessing of a set personality, so i just can't seem NPC Inquisitor as a good idea.

 

I dearly hope for dual protagonists and would love for it to be tried by Bioware because I'd consider it to be such a neat thing but I want it only if both protagonists are playable. If it or any other appearance by the Inquisitor cannot be done without the Inquisitor be non-playable then I do not want them to appear, I'd instead prefer that they only be mentioned.

[Smudjygirl]

I dearly hope for dual protagonists and would love for it to be tried by Bioware because I'd consider it to be such a neat thing but I want it only if both protagonists are playable. If it or any other appearance by the Inquisitor cannot be done without the Inquisitor be non-playable then I do not want them to appear, I'd instead prefer that they only be mentioned.

 

Dual Protags would be a nice balance. But if Solas is the main antagonist, then the new PC would be pointless if people want the Inquisitor to deal with Solas. They would have to one up Solas, which is pretty hard to do without reducing him to Cory.

 

Even many of those who don't want the Inquisitor back as PC agree they should be there for Solas' story. So having them completely off screen may be hard to do if their presence needs to be established. People probably won't be satisfied with them retiring to Antiva when they know someone is out to destroy the world, so they would likely "need" to be seen.

[vertigomez]

For me, having a PC become an NPC is a bad idea. Hawke had a set personality and failed miserably to satisfy anyone, and i even RP mine as a blood magic hating spirit healer. Her personality was diplomatic. Even i found her cameo "off" and i tried my best to like it. The Inquisitor doesn't have the blessing of a set personality, so i just can't seem NPC Inquisitor as a good idea.

Can you tell me what made it feel "off"? I've seen the same sentiment expressed before, and from what I can glean it's usually one of three things:

1.) Hawke's too morose, even if they had a helpful or sarcastic personality.
2.) Hawke hates blood magic even if you played a blood mage or were friends with Merrill.
3.) Hawke would never run off and leave their LI like they did.

Just out of curiosity.

[In Exile]

ME3 had a proper ending, at least as I'm using the term, it was just terrible. There was no sense that it needed a sequel, unless you believed Indoctrination theory anyway.

The Inquisitor needs to be playable for a proper ending because Bioware can't write them as a real character otherwise, because Bioware doesn't know what their character is. Unless they force a canon Inquisitor - or perhaps two, a Kill Solas Inquisitor and a Redeem Solas Inquisitor - which would still leave the player's Inquisitor without a proper ending.

Since I'm arguing that being playable is necessary, not that its sufficient, your Awakening example doesn't really seem relevant.

Awakening is a response to your point about Bioware not being able to anticipate the Inquisitor or force a cannon one - but that is precisely what the continuation does, and exactly what DAA is predicated on. It forced - far more than DAO does, though once you know to look for it you see it forced in DAO as well - the adoption of your identity as a GW. Which makes no sense given your ability to be so unwilling a recruit, the fact that the Wardens do not exist as an organization for the entirety of the game, and all of the DAO endings involve completely ignoring the GWs.

So not only does a continuation force a cannon on your character, but it often forces views on your character, including quite fundamental ones.

Any time jump does - just recall the howling in DA2 about Hawke not taking political action during the gaps.

As to your ME example, it sounds like you are not asking for an ending - you are asking for finality. These are not the same thing.

[Smudjygirl]

Can you tell me what made it feel "off"? I've seen the same sentiment expressed before, and from what I can glean it's usually one of three things:

1.) Hawke's too morose, even if they had a helpful or sarcastic personality.
2.) Hawke hates blood magic even if you played a blood mage or were friends with Merrill.
3.) Hawke would never run off and leave their LI like they did.

Just out of curiosity.

 

It's hard to explain, but i will try. With any character you get int role playing games, you get to input yourself into them. From those you said

 

1) That didn't bother me particularly, because Hawke has been through a lot. They are still a person, so i expected some changes in them.

2) Did not bother me, because my Hawke did not like blood magic. Even those who did, they have seen the consequences, so didn't approve of people using it as they did.

3) Hake and Fenris are adults. They don't need to be together all the time, long distance relationships are still relationships.

 

It's been a while since i played it. I'm going to play it when i get home for Easter, so i might be able to offer more insight then.

 

Even the set dialogue was okayish for me. But sometimes i felt like i would like a choice to choose what my Hawke was saying, how she responded to things that happened to her.

 

The thing that made Hawke "off" to me, though, was i have been told and shown throughout an entire game that Hawke was amazing. Smart, strong, determined and dependable. But she wasn't like that in Inquisition. Obviously, she couldn't be an equal to the Inquisitor, because the Inquisitor is the current "most important person in Thedas". As such, some of who Hawke is seemed to be sacrificed. She suddenly couldn't do anything without the Inquisitor's help, she was useless in the fade and she could not offer any real information on Corypheus at all. I mean, Hawke pretty much SAW the body hopping. Since she is so smart, how did she not realise that that was how Cory survived. I feel like if i was playing as her i feel that she would have naturally come to that conclusion. Because, after all, she was "just what Thedas needs"

[vertigomez]

Awakening is a response to your point about Bioware not being able to anticipate the Inquisitor or force a cannon one - but that is precisely what the continuation does, and exactly what DAA is predicated on. It forced - far more than DAO does, though once you know to look for it you see it forced in DAO as well - the adoption of your identity as a GW. Which makes no sense given your ability to be so unwilling a recruit, the fact that the Wardens do not exist as an organization for the entirety of the game, and all of the DAO endings involve completely ignoring the GWs.

So not only does a continuation force a cannon on your character, but it often forces views on your character, including quite fundamental ones.

Any time jump does - just recall the howling in DA2 about Hawke not taking political action during the gaps.

As to your ME example, it sounds like you are not asking for an ending - you are asking for finality. These are not the same thing.

This drove me nuts. I had maybe two PCs in DAO who were psyched to become Grey Wardens, and they were the only ones even remotely likely to take up the mantle of Warden-Commander. The rest? Pffffff. Grey Wardens can rot.

It's hard to explain, but i will try. With any character you get int role playing games, you get to input yourself into them. From those you said
 
1) That didn't bother me particularly, because Hawke has been through a lot. They are still a person, so i expected some changes in them.
2) Did not bother me, because my Hawke did not like blood magic. Even those who did, they have seen the consequences, so didn't approve of people using it as they did.
3) Hake and Fenris are adults. They don't need to be together all the time, long distance relationships are still relationships.
 
It's been a while since i played it. I'm going to play it when i get home for Easter, so i might be able to offer more insight then.
 
Even the set dialogue was okayish for me. But sometimes i felt like i would like a choice to choose what my Hawke was saying, how she responded to things that happened to her.
 
The thing that made Hawke "off" to me, though, was i have been told and shown throughout an entire game that Hawke was amazing. Smart, strong, determined and dependable. But she wasn't like that in Inquisition. Obviously, she couldn't be an equal to the Inquisitor, because the Inquisitor is the current "most important person in Thedas". As such, some of who Hawke is seemed to be sacrificed. She suddenly couldn't do anything without the Inquisitor's help, she was useless in the fade and she could not offer any real information on Corypheus at all. I mean, Hawke pretty much SAW the body hopping. Since she is so smart, how did she not realise that that was how Cory survived. I feel like if i was playing as her i feel that she would have naturally come to that conclusion. Because, after all, she was "just what Thedas needs"

Thanks for your insight! I was just curious, because I know a lot of people were not satisfied by the cameo but not everyone says why.

I guess Hawke being useless didn't bother me, because it felt like a continuation of their sad little life. And I'm saying this as a fan of the character.

[Catilina]

For me, having a PC become an NPC is a bad idea. Hawke had a set personality and failed miserably to satisfy anyone, and i even RP mine as a blood magic hating spirit healer. Her personality was diplomatic. Even i found her cameo "off" and i tried my best to like it. The Inquisitor doesn't have the blessing of a set personality, so i just can't seem NPC Inquisitor as a good idea.

 

Hawke's burn out after Kirkwall's mess are totally understandable.
I still missed a plus talking option when Hawke used blood magic.

[Nefla]

 

So Weekes says, when they say that the Inquisitor is tied off, they mean no more rift-closing, which I guess means they lose their job title.

 

Which can mean, if you want to look at it that way, since that they lose that power set, they are free to pursue a new one (aka a kick-ass prosthetic and its associated learning curve).

 

Am I being too positive? Too pie in the sky?

I want to believe that, but I think they really do believe they did a good job of "wrapping up" the inquisitor's story and will toss them in favor of a new random PC. The only thing they "wrapped up" is the inquisitor's arm.

[Smudjygirl]

Hawke's burn out after Kirkwall's mess are totally understandable.
I still missed a plus talking option when Hawke used blood magic.

 

I agree. Hawke was totally understandable. But what about the Inquisitor? They would have no reason to have such a personality change. Or i can't see one.

 

We'll see what comes of it, anyway

[BansheeOwnage]

Well, you win New Protagonist people.

I honestly have no idea how making every single Inquisitor personally vow to stop Solas, then proceed to use use their organization to do so, qualifies as anywhere close to "wrapping up their story" and "tying off the protagonist". Especially given that their story was much more wrapped-up before Trespasser was released... It's like getting a cut, then getting it stitched, then someone cutting the stitches and declaring the wound closed.

 

Ugh, what the hell? I don't understand. Give me one of those John Watson shirts: "I still don't understand."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I honestly have no idea how making every single Inquisitor personally vow to stop Solas, then proceed to use use their organization to do so, qualifies as anywhere close to "wrapping up their story" and "tying off the protagonist". Especially given that their story was much more wrapped-up before Trespasser was released... It's like getting a cut, then getting it stitched, then someone cutting the stitches and declaring the wound closed.

*snip*

 

Ugh, what the hell? I don't understand. Give me one of those John Watson shirts: "I still don't understand."

Yeah, how the vanilla game ended did a much better job in wrapping up the Inquisitor's story. They defeated Corypheus, sealed the Breach, and brought peace to Southern Thedas. It still foreshadowed Solas being a future antagonist with the end scene with him and Mythal, but that's all it was: foreshadowing. It was like how DA2 ended with Leliana and Cassandra talking while holding the Inquisition book. It made me interested in the next story, but not feel compelled to have Hawke be involved. Same with the end scene of DAI, where I felt intrigued by what Solas had planned but didn't feel a real need for the Inquisitor to be the person who deals with him. But with Trespasser, those reasons were created and to just have them thrown away for a new PC now is disheartening. 

[AresKeith]

I honestly have no idea how making every single Inquisitor personally vow to stop Solas, then proceed to use use their organization to do so, qualifies as anywhere close to "wrapping up their story" and "tying off the protagonist". Especially given that their story was much more wrapped-up before Trespasser was released... It's like getting a cut, then getting it stitched, then someone cutting the stitches and declaring the wound closed.

 

Ugh, what the hell? I don't understand. Give me one of those John Watson shirts: "I still don't understand."

 

Because it doesn't rule them out from returning but the role of main protagonist will belong to someone else

[Nefla]

I honestly have no idea how making every single Inquisitor personally vow to stop Solas, then proceed to use use their organization to do so, qualifies as anywhere close to "wrapping up their story" and "tying off the protagonist". Especially given that their story was much more wrapped-up before Trespasser was released... It's like getting a cut, then getting it stitched, then someone cutting the stitches and declaring the wound closed.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Ugh, what the hell? I don't understand. Give me one of those John Watson shirts: "I still don't understand."

Agreed, which is something that indicates to me that BioWare did indeed remove the inquisitor's hand in order to definitively retire them. The inquisitor's words and actions, the new threat to the world, the personal connection to Solas, the loss of the mark (which is no longer useful or relevant), none of those things would retire the inquisitor. The only thing that might sideline the inquisitor is the loss of the hand and I feel that was their motivation from the start, I just don't think they realized some people wouldn't take that well.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because it doesn't rule them out from returning but the role of main protagonist will belong to someone else

That's not comforting. They butchered my Hawke, and Hawke was a lot easier of a character to make a NPC than the Inquisitor will be. Having the Inquisitor return and butcher my Inquisitor is worse than them not showing up at all in my opinion. 

[AresKeith]

That's not comforting. They butchered my Hawke, and Hawke was a lot easier of a character to make a NPC than the Inquisitor will be. Having the Inquisitor return and butcher my Inquisitor is worse than them not showing up at all in my opinion. 

 

Which is why many of us has suggested that they do the dual protagonist, Bioware themselves has expressed interest in doing this and DA4 and possibly future games are a good chance to test this out

 

And in regards to returning PCs like Hawke, I would actually like to see Bioware improve on something instead of stopping because someone didn't like it out of fear of their character being "butchered" 

[BansheeOwnage]

It doesn't matter what they have planned to me.

 

If they think a story ends when the protagonist declares they are going to stop the villain, then there's no way I can ever care about the next story they write - after all, it could just end the same way. Dragon Age 4 could "end" when the protagonist meets whoever their villain will be. Same for the next game. I could spend the entire next game getting involved in the plot and caring about the relationship and conflict between characters, and then it's just suddenly dropped because they couldn't fit it in the game again.

 

It just sets the expectation that I shouldn't care about the characters, because any conflict will be unresolved so the writers can start another unrelated plot, repeat to infinity.

 

So if this gets officially confirmed, I'm out.

Agreed. And much to my dismay, these kinds of feelings are why I can't get excited for Andromeda. What if the first game is awesome, but the ending of the new trilogy is terrible? Then I've wasted my time and waited 6 years for nothing. I can't get invested, because I'm worried they'll repeat their mistake. It's becoming clear that Bioware doesn't know how to write a satisfying ending, at least anymore.

 

And now I'm having these thoughts about DA They could just make the same mistake again, and make me not want to get invested so I won't worry that they'll cut my next protagonist's story short again. If I'm not invested, what's the point?

 

ME3 had a proper ending, at least as I'm using the term, it was just terrible. There was no sense that it needed a sequel, unless you believed Indoctrination theory anyway.

The Inquisitor needs to be playable for a proper ending because Bioware can't write them as a real character otherwise, because Bioware doesn't know what their character is. Unless they force a canon Inquisitor - or perhaps two, a Kill Solas Inquisitor and a Redeem Solas Inquisitor - which would still leave the player's Inquisitor without a proper ending.

Since I'm arguing that being playable is necessary, not that its sufficient, your Awakening example doesn't really seem relevant.

I agree that they can't write them as a real character, because if they don't appear, their vow was meaningless and they are basically a coward who hides instead of trying to stop the world from imploding. And if they do appear, then obviously their story wasn't over, was it?

 

 

So Weekes says, when they say that the Inquisitor is tied off, they mean no more rift-closing, which I guess means they lose their job title.

 

Which can mean, if you want to look at it that way, since that they lose that power set, they are free to pursue a new one (aka a kick-ass prosthetic and its associated learning curve).

 

Am I being too positive? Too pie in the sky?

That's an odd thing for Weekes to say. We were done the rift-closing as of the start of Trespasser, that was the point of the 2-year time-skip - Quizzy went around closing the rest of the rifts around Thedas. So why would we need the Anchor gone to solidify something solid?

 

The Inquisitor became the Inquisitor because they needed to close the giant rift in the sky. 

 

Since the rift is closed, and the arm with the mark is off the Inquisitor, that to me is enough to say the Inquisitor's work is done. 

Ha, not to me. The Inquisition was founded to restore order, close the Breach, and bring whoever was responsible for its creation to justice... (obligatory) With or without anyone's approval

 

Solas was responsible for the Breach. He's still roaming around. You know from Solas that anything but order is on the horizon. So sure, Quizzy could say "Oh, restored order for a bit. Guess my job's done even though I know more chaos is coming soon" but that would make Quizzy an idiot.

 

The Breach may be closed, but that hardly matters much if the entire veil comes down, does it? And since you're the only group who knows about this threat and are willing to face it, how can their job possibly be over?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Which is why many of us has suggested that they do the dual protagonist, Bioware themselves has expressed interest in doing this and DA4 and possibly future games are a good chance to test this out

 

And in regards to returning PCs like Hawke, I would actually like to see Bioware improve on something instead of stopping because someone didn't like it out of fear of their character being "butchered" 

Except them doing dual protagonists goes against their plans to wrap up the Inquisitor. I'm perfectly fine with them doing duel protagonists and have supported it ever since it was suggested, but this revelation about the goals of Trespasser goes against that now. 

[AresKeith]

Except them doing dual protagonists goes against their plans to wrap up the Inquisitor. I'm perfectly fine with them doing duel protagonists and have supported it ever since it was suggested, but this revelation about the goals of Trespasser goes against that now. 

 

No it doesn't go against this, the goal was to wrap up the Inquisitor's story and it was finished but that doesn't rule them out from returning in a major role

[Nefla]

Agreed. And much to my dismay, these kinds of feelings are why I can't get excited for Andromeda. What if the first game is awesome, but the ending of the new trilogy is terrible? Then I've wasted my time and waited 6 years for nothing. I can't get invested, because I'm worried they'll repeat their mistake. It's becoming clear that Bioware doesn't know how to write a satisfying ending, at least anymore.

 

And now I'm having these thoughts about DA They could just make the same mistake again, and make me not want to get invested so I won't worry that they'll cut my next protagonist's story short again. If I'm not invested, what's the point?

 

I agree that they can't write them as a real character, because if they don't appear, their vow was meaningless and they are basically a coward who hides instead of trying to stop the world from imploding. And if they do appear, then obviously their story wasn't over, was it?

 

That's an odd thing for Weekes to say. We were done the rift-closing as of the start of Trespasser, that was the point of the 2-year time-skip - Quizzy went around closing the rest of the rifts around Thedas. So why would we need the Anchor gone to solidify something solid?

 

Ha, not to me. The Inquisition was founded to restore order, close the Breach, and bring whoever was responsible for its creation to justice... (obligatory) With or with out anyone's approval.

 

Solas was responsible for the Breach. He's still roaming around. You know from Solas that anything but order is on the horizon. So sure, Quizzy could say "Oh, restored order. Guess my job's done even though I know more chaos is coming soon" but that would make Quizzy an idiot.

 

The Breach may be closed, but that hardly matters much if the entire veil comes down, does it? And since you're the only group who knows about this threat and are willing to face it, how can their job possibly be over?

Hey, don't try and confuse them with your logic and sense and good storytelling, they have a rule.