Except it totally didn't happen for every Warden. Many "cannon" Wardens are dead. They couldn't possibly bring back a dead PC (i was going to say character, but then i remembered Leliana). The difference is every Inquisitor says they will stop Solas. And they are all alive. Even those who say "my adventuring days may be done" still are looking for him. So it is not quite the same barrel of worms.
And every Inquisitor uses the line "we'll find people he doesn't know"
And every Inquisitor uses the line "we'll find people he doesn't know"
True. But i was more pointing out using the Warden is not an accurate thing to do, because of all that can happen to them.
But i will also point out "find people he doesn't know" does not mean "retire into relative obscurity". I believe it was intentionally ambiguous like that.
Except it totally didn't happen for every Warden. Many "cannon" Wardens are dead. They couldn't possibly bring back a dead PC (i was going to say character, but then i remembered Leliana). The difference is every Inquisitor says they will stop Solas. And they are all alive. Even those who say "my adventuring days may be done" still are looking for him. So it is not quite the same barrel of worms.
Yep! Only the dark ritual wardens have any potential reason for hunting Morrigan, but even then a mystery magical baby isn't exactly on the same level as someone declaring he is an ancient elven god and will destroy the world.
And every Inquisitor uses the line "we'll find people he doesn't know"
New troops from a country that wouldn't be infiltrated by his spies are "people he doesn't know" as are new companions.
True. But i was more pointing out using the Warden is not an accurate thing to do, because of all that can happen to them.
But i will also point out "find people he doesn't know" does not mean "retire into relative obscurity". I believe it was intentionally ambiguous like that.
I don't expect the Inquisitor to retire into obscurity
New troops from a country that wouldn't be infiltrated by his spies are "people he doesn't know" as are new companions.
A valid interpretation... or was
How is a single dialogue option that was available to choose for a very small number of wardens and is then later solved equivalent to something that every single Inquisitor is forced to declare multiple times with no other options, as part of their epic final speech?
Except it totally didn't happen for every Warden. Many "cannon" Wardens are dead. They couldn't possibly bring back a dead PC (i was going to say character, but then i remembered Leliana). The difference is every Inquisitor says they will stop Solas. And they are all alive. Even those who say "my adventuring days may be done" still are looking for him. So it is not quite the same barrel of worms.
And then in Witch Hunt you hunt her. In any case she never revealed any kind of plans to destroy the world to us. If they wanted to do an inquisitor-stops-Solas plot in an expansion instead of a game I would still play that expansion.
And we're back to many Inquisitors being totally indifferent to Solas on a personal level. I'll stop him could very easily be the equivalent of "this is my new job", with all of the emotional force of having a new chore. All of these arguments about the essentialness of the Inquisitor as the main protagonist are predicated on an assumption about the relationship with Solas - no different than what happens with Morrigan.
Saying you'll "stop" Solas doesn't carry the meaning you think it does unless you presuppose the relationship.
Your Inquisitor was not indifferent in the scene they declared stopping him. Some people might have wanted their Inquisitor to be indifferent, but that's not an option you got. The only presumption here is deciding your character didn't actually say any of the things they actually said.
True. But i was more pointing out using the Warden is not an accurate thing to do, because of all that can happen to them.
But i will also point out "find people he doesn't know" does not mean "retire into relative obscurity". I believe it was intentionally ambiguous like that.
It also doesn't make the Inquisitor the protagonist. Just like how Cassandra isn't the protagonist of DAI because Corypheus nukes Justinia (who she has a clear personal tie with) and publicly - and unilaterally - creates the Inquisition.
We never got to see or establish Cass and Justinia's relationship. We didn't have a hand in creating it, and Cass some what gets her closure. You keep using things that have no real connection to what is being said. Solas makes himself the Inquisitor's antagonist in Trespasser. I've done every dialogue option and i can't find any combination that can make you neutral. He won't even tell them what is plan is because it would be "too easy to tell you too much". And i've tried to find the "closure" that was supposed to be in Trespasser. They set the ground for an amazing story between two characters. I don't get why such a set up should be wasted.
We clearly have a different opinion on what makes a story good.
A valid interpretation... or was
I obviously don't think there's any hope anymore but they really did a bad job "wrapping up the inquisitor's story," that ambiguous line was just one of many examples. 
It doesn't matter way she revealed.
The way she revealed what?
Solas wanting to kill everyone doesn't make the Inquisitor some essential figure, and it doesn't make Solas a personal rival or antagonist. That's all your perception of your character. That's the point.
Solas revealed himself and his plans only to the inquisitor, the inquisitor vows to stop or redeem Solas regardless of player input. The inquisitor is alive no matter what. Disband or keep the inquisition, it's all based around stopping Solas, every inquisitor ends up in the basement plotting against Solas. This was not my perception, this is fact. Regardless of if this fell flat with you or not, Solas was a companion that turned on you, manipulated you from the start, and was the cause of the breach and everyone who died because of it and it was clearly BioWare's intention to have an emotional moment between Solas and the inquisitor in the scene where you confront him. The inquisitor isn't essential in that they're special and the only one who can stop him (that concept is stupid and I hated it in DA:I), but having an antagonist and a protagonist with a history and knowledge of each other (at the very least) makes for a better story for a lot of people than "random good guy kills random evil guy." Why wouldn't the inquisitor be the one to stop Solas? Why would they pass the buck on to some random level 1 goat farmer? I think a lot of you just want a knew character and don't care about what would make a stronger narrative or what makes sense. But hey, you got what you wanted.
You're missing the analogy because you can't divorce your view of the character from the actual narrative relationship between the two.
Yeah, no. Again, only DR wardens have any reason to chase Morrigan (and she even tells you the baby won't be some kind of demon or monster). Solas blatantly said he's going to destroy the world and every inquisitor vowed to stop him. Your analogy doesn't work.
As to WH, I'm shocked you'd cite that as a conclusion given that it's entirely the same thing as Trespasser. It has the same cliffhanger non-conclusion. If you count that one as an ending then Trespasser is certainly an ending.
Honestly I think BioWare throwing a bunch of mysteries and plotlines around and then either not finishing them or finishing them in an unsatisfactory way is a huge weakness but again: optional mysterious baby =/= your former comrade chops off your arm, says he will destroy the world, you're the only witness, you vow to stop him, you start working towards stopping him.
DA:O had a solid conclusion, DA:I had a solid conclusion but Trespasser tore that open and basically gives your inquisitor a new mission.
Stopping Solas does not mean that the Inquisitor personally has to stop him. The Inquisitor could become the manipulator or mastermind behind the scenes. The Inquisitor could be the one who finds the ones Solas does not know.
Posters I understand want their Inquisitor to be the one, but that does not have to be the case. I could imagine that the first part of the game has the Inquisitor looking for the members of the team. The last person he finds is your protagonist who you get to craft. The Inquisitor then recedes back into the shadows to manipulate the events that will transpire.The Inquisitor will be the chessmaster moving the pieces. The gamer gets to make the decisions for the Inquisitor behind the scenes and the leader of the companions in the field.
“Vision,” in their view, is a cynosure for the entire team that keeps them focused on a single goal; in the case of Bioware’s narrative design team, it was the idea that Trespasser should do two things, 1) effectively end the Inquisitor’s story and resolve the issue with the glowing mark on their hand, 2) tie off the loose end of Solas’ story, and tell a tale where this erstwhile friend (and, perhaps, lover) had become an antagonist. In this, so far as I’m concerned, they were singularly effective; they provided a throughline for the DLC that kept me going over the course of its hours-long adventure.
Apparently a bit of what was said in the talk
http://www.gamasutra..._medium=twitter
but we might get to know some stuff soon, because i found a tweet from Weekes that said "Awww, Tink, it's okay, you're just gonna miss us sharing secrets and talking about spoilers for future content.". Could be trolling, maybe not
I can't understand why there are people surprised that there will be a new protagonist in DA4. So far, the situation has always been the same: end DA:O, people ask the Warden to return in the next game, but Bioware wants a new protagonist. DAII ends, people ask for Hawke, but Bioware gives us the Inquisitor. DA:I ends, people want the Inquisitor to continue, but most likely we'll have another character.
Cue the end of DA4, when people will say that the new PC's story "isn't finished" and that he/she has to be the protagonist of DA5
Don't forget the bit about how the series has been on the edge of crisis since abandoning everything that made it great, that any revision or reveal about the lore amounts to horrible retcons and pandering for the bad groups, and that the last game was really great, unlike the new one.
“Vision,” in their view, is a cynosure for the entire team that keeps them focused on a single goal; in the case of Bioware’s narrative design team, it was the idea that Trespasser should do two things, 1) effectively end the Inquisitor’s story and resolve the issue with the glowing mark on their hand, 2) tie off the loose end of Solas’ story, and tell a tale where this erstwhile friend (and, perhaps, lover) had become an antagonist. In this, so far as I’m concerned, they were singularly effective; they provided a throughline for the DLC that kept me going over the course of its hours-long adventure.
Apparently a bit of what was said in the talk
http://www.gamasutra..._medium=twitter
but we might get to know some stuff soon, because i found a tweet from Weekes that said "Awww, Tink, it's okay, you're just gonna miss us sharing secrets and talking about spoilers for future content.". Could be trolling, maybe not
Replying to bolded: Just going to bring this up again, partly because I just find it odd and partly because others are covering the rest.
"Resolve the issue of the glowing mark on their hand"? What was the issue? The only issues it had were introduced during Trespasser! That would be like saying JoH will resolve the Ameridan plotline. K.
I just don't understand how this was one of their major goals, unless what they really mean is "We need to to de-power the Inquisitor"...
Replying to bolded: Just going to bring this up again, partly because I just find it odd and partly because others are covering the rest.
"Resolve the issue of the glowing mark on their hand"? What was the issue? The only issues it had were introduced during Trespasser! That would be like saying JoH will resolve the Ameridan plotline. K.
I just don't understand how this was one of their major goals, unless what they really mean is "We need to to de-power the Inquisitor"...
I think you answered your own question. They needed to make the Inquisitor as useless as they could, i guess. I think the "issue" was the mark making them far to important, even if they got rid of the Inquisition.
They might give the inquisitor a prosthetic arm but still have them only as an NPC advisor/quest giver.
I just hope that will be the case. I'm trying very hard to see why getting the exquisitor back as PC seems so important for some people, when in reality, any new PC, if is well written, could resolve the solas plot and make it even more interesting than if it was done by the recurrence of DAI protagonist.
The way the cliffhanger from DA2 - the mages/templars conflict - was resolved was really poor and disappointing. I could put the blame on the fact that it was a conflict for the DA2 PC to solve, but the reality is that it wasn't so bad because Bioware gave us a new PC, it was meh because the resolve was horribly written.
Same thing with the absurd recurrence of Corypheus (an antagonist from a DA2 DLC) as the main villain for DAI. I kept asking myself why, why out of all the infinite posibilites for creating an interesting new villain, the devs chose to bring back one of Hawke's DLC antagonist? And if it wasn't enough, why they made him look so irrelevant, undeveloped throughout the entire game, culminating with a final battle that felt so rushed and bland. Still, I can't blame poor Corypheus. I have put all the blame on the devs and/or writers since he had the potencial for been an amazing character in DAI if he was developed properly but we have to agree that it was poorly written and horribly implemented as the main villain (and he was definitively the main villain as far as the main game goes, since Solas only turned into something else in a cliffhanger after the credits and most people didn't have any interest in playing Trespasser).
Unless the issue was that the Inquisitor was unable to retire because the Anchor makes the Inquisitor so damn special. That doesn't make any sense with the ending we got, but it might if they originally intended something like DA:O's endings.
They retired the Inquisitor. The character - and the involvement in the Solas plot - isn't the same thing as the title/symbol. Trespasser does two things: it strips the Inquisitor of his/her world altering power (the Anchor) and of their organizational power (the Inquisition). Whether the Inquisition is disbanded or absorbed into the Chantry, the Inquisitor is basically stripped of their protagonist-ness.
What I think that Bioware doesn't appreciate is that, like with the HOF, some people don't really think of their protagonist in those terms (e.g., how people will say that the HOF can fight Corypheus despite him proving he wears Warden meatsuits).
Stopping Solas does not mean that the Inquisitor personally has to stop him. The Inquisitor could become the manipulator or mastermind behind the scenes. The Inquisitor could be the one who finds the ones Solas does not know.
Posters I understand want their Inquisitor to be the one, but that does not have to be the case. I could imagine that the first part of the game has the Inquisitor looking for the members of the team. The last person he finds is your protagonist who you get to craft. The Inquisitor then recedes back into the shadows to manipulate the events that will transpire.The Inquisitor will be the chessmaster moving the pieces. The gamer gets to make the decisions for the Inquisitor behind the scenes and the leader of the companions in the field.
Can't think of anything worse than stripping the new protagonist of any control or agency in this manner.
I'm hoping to leave the buffoon known as the inquisitor in the fade to die or at the very least not be in a situation where they are manipulating my new protagonist.
Can't think of anything worse than stripping the new protagonist of any control or agency in this manner.
I'm hoping to leave the buffoon known as the inquisitor in the fade to die or at the very least not be in a situation where they are manipulating my new protagonist.
The new PC being an agent of the inquisition is very likely. Now that we know the inquisitor themselves will just be passing the buck, that "we need to find people Solas knows" almost certainly means they'll recruit the new random person as an inquisition agent. I doubt they meant "let's just go tell some random person in Tevinter about Solas and let them decide what to do about it then we'll leave."
I now wish the inquisitor had died at the end of the vanilla game.
When the Inquisitor said we will find people to stop Solas that to me was a huge hint that not only we would have a new PC but that the Solas conflict would come towards the end of the game. I dont think the new pc would be a agent of the Inquisition because of that line also. Cant find what you already have and how do you find someone who is worthy to take down a being powerful as Solas. You find someone who has already proven themselves. This wont be like a Duncan Origins type deal searching different origins who are worthy to be apart of the Inquisition. I think the best route would be to focus on the issues and events in the north first. To establish the culture and conflicts they already have with a new rising hero. Stopping a full blown Qunari Invasion and helping Dorian or whoever reform Tevinter would not only establish the new PC and there companions to Thedas but it would show the Inquisitor they found there guy/girl. Not just anyone can be picked to stopped Solas so having a new PC focus on the new lore and events that is about to unfold would be the perfect person for the Inquisitor to trust with such a task. Ideally that person would have more trust in Tevinter then the Inquisitor who while a hero for stopping the breach I doubt they are seen as highly in Tevinter as they are the south. But having a new PC who has just proved themselves in the first two acts of the game and Dorian being a first hand witness with that little crystal Dorian has to contact the Inquisitor that can appear in grand fashion to set the tone for the final act of the game. Stopping Solas and his elf uprising.
The new PC being recruited into the inquisition at the beginning as an agent is what I meant, not the new PC already being an agent.
They retired the Inquisitor. The character - and the involvement in the Solas plot - isn't the same thing as the title/symbol. Trespasser does two things: it strips the Inquisitor of his/her world altering power (the Anchor) and of their organizational power (the Inquisition). Whether the Inquisition is disbanded or absorbed into the Chantry, the Inquisitor is basically stripped of their protagonist-ness.
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