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[RoseLawliet]

It's really confusing for me personally to have experienced all the protagonists, and try to sort out what they did and what I did. I guess if I were ever to be an actor, I'd be way too method to ever get a second job. But meh.

 

For example, how was I as the player ever supposed to be anything other than overjoyed when I met Anders for the first time in Dragon Age 2? "Damn it, Me! Where am I? He's in Kirkwall! Go to Kirkwall!" Also, going into Inquisition I had a sneaking suspicion I'd be overly friendly with Varric, I really wanted to kick Cassandra out, I didn't want anything to do with Cullen or "the Tevinter guy", and Cole was creepy. Also, it's very off-putting that I had to sit and think about how my Inquisitor would react to finally learning Solas was Fen'Harel because I had know for quite some time. (And for what it's worth, I remain convinced that BioWare should never have shown us that stinger.)

 

Edit: Particularly regarding the Anders example, having a new protagonist each game really made me feel helpless as a player, hence me shouting for myself to go visit Kirkwall.

Modifié par RoseLawliet, 17 mars 2016 - 05:28 .

[Sah291]

@RoseLawliet,
I agree. Since they made Tresspasser, I was ok with the stinger, since that more less fixed the issue. But it was weird having so much meta knowledge about everything that my character didn't.

I enjoyed watching Varric's interactions with Cass and the other companions a lot, but the Inquisitor's relationship with him felt a little strange. Maybe it's just me. It felt like his role and presence there would have made more sense if Hawke was the IQ.

I generally don't mind characters with smaller roles coming back, since it feels like getting to know them for the first time (Merrill, Cullen), or in a completely different context from before (Anders, Leliana, Cassandra).

But it just..I dunno, makes me wish I were playing the old character again, instead of focusing on the new story and characters like I should be.

[vertigomez]

It's really confusing for me personally to have experienced all the protagonists, and try to sort out what they did and what I did. I guess if I were ever to be an actor, I'd be way too method to ever get a second job. But meh.
 
For example, how was I as the player ever supposed to be anything other than overjoyed when I met Anders for the first time in Dragon Age 2? "Damn it, Me! Where am I? He's in Kirkwall! Go to Kirkwall!" Also, going into Inquisition I had a sneaking suspicion I'd be overly friendly with Varric, I really wanted to kick Cassandra out, I didn't want anything to do with Cullen or "the Tevinter guy", and Cole was creepy. Also, it's very off-putting that I had to sit and think about how my Inquisitor would react to finally learning Solas was Fen'Harel because I had know for quite some time. (And for what it's worth, I remain convinced that BioWare should never have shown us that stinger.)
 
Edit: Particularly regarding the Anders example, having a new protagonist each game really made me feel helpless as a player, hence me shouting for myself to go visit Kirkwall.

I think some people just have fundamentally different playstyles. Because for me, I LOVED imagining how my character would react to the revelation that Solas was Fen'Harel, and I was interested in how different the relationship with Anders was gonna be with Hawke versus his relationship with the Warden. I was excited about Dorian and Cole and Cass (and everyone else), because I couldn't wait to see how the Inquisitor would react to their very own merry band of misfits.

[RoseLawliet]

I can at least tolerate them all now, and Dorian is one of my favorites, but I hate going into a game with knowledge I know my character won't have. I did my absolute best to stay away from spoilers, but still I somehow knew every companion and advisor's name, romancable status, and orientation/race gating. I don't know how.

 

What I think I'm trying to say is that first impressions really do count, and having meta knowledge deprives the character of first impressions (because some of us just don't know how to pretend to be surprised).

[Nefla]

I hate when associates and companions of the previous hero comes back but you're playing someone new. It's no longer "oh this person is intriguing, I wonder what they're like, who they are, what I will learn about them, etc..." it becomes "oh it's Leliana/Cullen/Varric/Hawke/Loghain/Alistair/Anora/etc..." and yet my character doesn't have that knowledgebut the game assumes the player does and doesn't even give the new character much time or development to form a real relationship with them.

[CronoDragoon]

It's really confusing for me personally to have experienced all the protagonists, and try to sort out what they did and what I did. I guess if I were ever to be an actor, I'd be way too method to ever get a second job. But meh.

 

For example, how was I as the player ever supposed to be anything other than overjoyed when I met Anders for the first time in Dragon Age 2? "Damn it, Me! Where am I? He's in Kirkwall! Go to Kirkwall!" Also, going into Inquisition I had a sneaking suspicion I'd be overly friendly with Varric, I really wanted to kick Cassandra out, I didn't want anything to do with Cullen or "the Tevinter guy", and Cole was creepy. Also, it's very off-putting that I had to sit and think about how my Inquisitor would react to finally learning Solas was Fen'Harel because I had know for quite some time. (And for what it's worth, I remain convinced that BioWare should never have shown us that stinger.)

 

Edit: Particularly regarding the Anders example, having a new protagonist each game really made me feel helpless as a player, hence me shouting for myself to go visit Kirkwall.

 

This can actually produce some wonderful meta-conflict within the player's mind. For example, I got really anxious when the Chantry came to the Inquisition asking about Divine candidates. I didn't want Vivienne to become Divine, so it was either Leliana or Cassandra. The former is the Warden's lover, the latter the Inquisitor's. Whoever I back, I am potentially becoming a homewrecker.

[Mistic]

This can actually produce some wonderful meta-conflict within the player's mind. For example, I got really anxious when the Chantry came to the Inquisition asking about Divine candidates. I didn't want Vivienne to become Divine, so it was either Leliana or Cassandra. The former is the Warden's lover, the latter the Inquisitor's. Whoever I back, I am potentially becoming a homewrecker.

 

I'd dare to say that Bioware sometimes tries to achieve that effect. Like the Fade decision in DA:I. For the Inquisitor, both Hawke and whoever the Warden is are people they've just met. For the player, it can become a very difficult situation.

[BansheeOwnage]

Didn't Morrowind and Oblivion actually overlap? It's been a long time so I don't remember >.<

 

In any case I do like TES near complete separation when it comes to locations, characters, plots, and in the case of Skyrim timelines.

Skyrim was in a different timeline?

[JadeDragon]

Skyrim was in a different timeline?

Skyrim was in a different age just as Oblivion was and Morrowind was. But Skyrim was in the same timeline just many years later. Dragon Age has till DA 99 before the series can end.

[vertigomez]

I'd dare to say that Bioware sometimes tries to achieve that effect. Like the Fade decision in DA:I. For the Inquisitor, both Hawke and whoever the Warden is are people they've just met. For the player, it can become a very difficult situation.

Deeeelicious. I'd argue that (un)hardening Leliana counts as well, though it's more subtle. And maybe deciding whether or not Morrigan drinks from the Well, particularly if the Warden romanced her and she's the mother of his kid.

To use or not to use meta knowledge? That is the question.

[Nefla]

Skyrim was in a different timeline?

A different time period I mean. There were what, 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim? Keeps things nice and separate.

[AresKeith]

One advantage the TES has over DA is the time skip for each new game (one game per century).

 

Well technically each DA game does have a time skip, just not a century between them

 

Though DA2 is a mixed bag in this because it has times skips within time skips 

[BansheeOwnage]

It's really confusing for me personally to have experienced all the protagonists, and try to sort out what they did and what I did. I guess if I were ever to be an actor, I'd be way too method to ever get a second job. But meh.

 

For example, how was I as the player ever supposed to be anything other than overjoyed when I met Anders for the first time in Dragon Age 2? "Damn it, Me! Where am I? He's in Kirkwall! Go to Kirkwall!" Also, going into Inquisition I had a sneaking suspicion I'd be overly friendly with Varric, I really wanted to kick Cassandra out, I didn't want anything to do with Cullen or "the Tevinter guy", and Cole was creepy. Also, it's very off-putting that I had to sit and think about how my Inquisitor would react to finally learning Solas was Fen'Harel because I had know for quite some time. (And for what it's worth, I remain convinced that BioWare should never have shown us that stinger.)

 

Edit: Particularly regarding the Anders example, having a new protagonist each game really made me feel helpless as a player, hence me shouting for myself to go visit Kirkwall.

This gets even worse, because Bioware actually relies on meta-knowledge for dialogue and decisions sometimes. Take Morrigan. For some reason, during the ball, you have a lot of options to be very excited/relieved to see her, and can act very friendly to her... like you're The Warden. Even though you just met her, and you've been told that she's sorta dodgy.

 

And then there is this example:

I'd dare to say that Bioware sometimes tries to achieve that effect. Like the Fade decision in DA:I. For the Inquisitor, both Hawke and whoever the Warden is are people they've just met. For the player, it can become a very difficult situation.

The Fade-sacrifice/Hawke decision only really has any impact to us because we know all of the characters from previously. The Inquisitor just met them, but it's clear that Bioware only made the choice because they relied on our feelings as players to make it impactful. I doubt it would have been very important to people who only played DA:I and were not exposed to any supplementary material.

 

This trend is not a good thing.

 

About the Stinger: While I agree that it would have been a cooler reveal if it was made naturally, during Trespasser, I think Bioware worried that without some big reveal, people would lose interest and not wait for DLC. They were right. It's like ME3. From what I remember, the Breath Scene was originally going to be added after all the DLC was released, but was put in the base game for the reasons I just listed (which to me implies Bioware knew to some extent people would find the ending unsatisfying, but whatever).

[BansheeOwnage]

Skyrim was in a different age just as Oblivion was and Morrowind was. But Skyrim was in the same timeline just many years later. Dragon Age has till DA 99 before the series can end.

A different time period I mean. There were what, 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim? Keeps things nice and separate.

Ah, okay, that was my impression, thanks!

[Donquijote and 59 others]

New protagonist every game means we have to build everything from scratch once again!

It doesn't matter if the new hero isn't lame in the end Solas will win the same.

 

I hate when associates and companions of the previous hero comes back but you're playing someone new. It's no longer "oh this person is intriguing, I wonder what they're like, who they are, what I will learn about them, etc..." it becomes "oh it's Leliana/Cullen/Varric/Hawke/Loghain/Alistair/Anora/etc..." and yet my character doesn't have that knowledgebut the game assumes the player does and doesn't even give the new character much time or development to form a real relationship with them.

While my Inquisitor see them as strangers i see them as reused characters and here it is the disconnection between me and the inquisitor,

[Dorrieb]

Note that this is exactly what Bio has always said the Dragon Age series is. And it's not unheard of in RPGs --TES being the most obvious example.

 

I wonder how many people actually care about TES as a series? My impression of it is that it's more of a brand name, and that Arena and Daggerfall are all but unknown to most fans of Morrowind and Oblivion, let alone Skyrim. The success of one game doesn't carry over to the next. How is TES:Online doing?

 

I'd dare to say that Bioware sometimes tries to achieve that effect. Like the Fade decision in DA:I. For the Inquisitor, both Hawke and whoever the Warden is are people they've just met. For the player, it can become a very difficult situation.

 

I'll be very, very surprised if they give much thought to literary theory when they plan out these things. In fact, fiver says they don't!

[Dorrieb]

I think some people just have fundamentally different playstyles. Because for me, I LOVED imagining how my character would react to the revelation that Solas was Fen'Harel...

 

Imagining how your character would react to the revelation, meaning that the Inquisitor was not your character? Who is your character then?

[vertigomez]

Imagining how your character would react to the revelation, meaning that the Inquisitor was not your character? Who is your character then?

She was mine in the sense that a car is mine, but I am not a car.

[Ghost Gal]

I wish they'd actually finish the protagonists' story each game before moving onto new protagonists, instead of just cutting stories in half and passing the second halves off to new protagonists, despite lack of closure for the old protagonist and lack of personal investment for the new protagonist.

 

For example, I may not like DA2, but it's pretty clear that one was rushed to release and there were a lot of loose ends dangling. The Exalted March DLC was meant to wrap up those loose ends and bring closure to Hawke's story, but the DLC was scrapped and many ideas moved over to Inquisition, where the Inquisitor got to complete Hawke's story and take over Hawke's friendship with Varric and rivalry with Corypheus, despite having no personal history or emotional investment with those characters. (And I say that knowing that I benefit from the Temple of Mythal being carried over to a game where I could play an elf.)

 

DAI was also originally supposed to be twice as long, but the devs said they basically cut the story in half and the first half is what we got in DAI, while the next half will no doubt be covered next game. A lot of the story meant to be covered by our Inquisitor goes to new guy/gal, especially the "Stop Solas" part (whom I hear Weekes has said emphatically said, "his story will end next game"), despite how the Inqusitiors is the one with all the personal history and potential emotional investment in the guy. We spent all of DAI slowly getting to know Solas as the Inquisitor, then Trespasser boldly revealed his identity as the Dread Wolf to our Quizzy, then set up their antagonistic rivalry, with Solas vowing to tear down the Veil and the Inquisitor vowing to stop him... then ZOINK! Some random stranger who wouldn't know Solas from a hole in the ground is the one who's going to stop him next game?

 

Again, Quizzy was the one to stop Corypheus despite Hawke having all the history with him, and now the next protagonist will no doubt stop Solas despite the Inquisitor having all the personal history and potential emotional investment in him. (Whether friendship, romance, or even "I've been waiting a long time to give you this knuckle-sandwich.") 

 

BioWare can do whatever they want, of course, it's their Intellectual Property, but I think it'd make for more emotionally compelling and engaging stories if they'd let protagonists cash in on the emotional investment they put into their interactions with companions and antagonists in their games, and let them finish their stories and defeat their baddies with emotionally satisfying conclusions. 

[AlanC9]

I wonder how many people actually care about TES as a series? My impression of it is that it's more of a brand name, and that Arena and Daggerfall are all but unknown to most fans of Morrowind and Oblivion, let alone Skyrim. The success of one game doesn't carry over to the next. How is TES:Online doing?)

Good question. I'm not enough of a TES fan to have any idea.

[In Exile]

For example, I may not like DA2, but it's pretty clear that one was rushed to release and there were a lot of loose ends dangling. The Exalted March DLC was meant to wrap up those loose ends and bring closure to Hawke's story, but the DLC was scrapped and many ideas moved over to Inquisition, where the Inquisitor got to complete Hawke's story and take over Hawke's friendship with Varric and rivalry with Corypheus...

 

But that's exactly the thing that DA:I doesn't do. You're not friends with Varric. The fundamental and defining feature of the Inquisitor's relationship with Varric is how Varric is just straight up not even close to you as a casual friend. 

 

It's an inversion on every level in that regard. DA:I does follow up thematically from DA2, but that it actually does that well. 

 

 

Again, Quizzy was the one to stop Corypheus despite Hawke having all the history with him...

I honestly don't think "I killed him that one time but he didn't die" counts as "having all the history with him". The Inquisitor absolutely had more of a history. 

[BansheeOwnage]

I wish they'd actually finish the protagonists' story each game before moving onto new protagonists, instead of just cutting stories in half and passing the second halves off to new protagonists, despite lack of closure for the old protagonist and lack of personal investment for the new protagonist.

 

For example, I may not like DA2, but it's pretty clear that one was rushed to release and there were a lot of loose ends dangling. The Exalted March DLC was meant to wrap up those loose ends and bring closure to Hawke's story, but the DLC was scrapped and many ideas moved over to Inquisition, where the Inquisitor got to complete Hawke's story and take over Hawke's friendship with Varric and rivalry with Corypheus, despite having no personal history or emotional investment with those characters. (And I say that knowing that I benefit from the Temple of Mythal being carried over to a game where I could play an elf.)

 

DAI was also originally supposed to be twice as long, but the devs said they basically cut the story in half and the first half is what we got in DAI, while the next half will no doubt be covered next game. A lot of the story meant to be covered by our Inquisitor goes to new guy/gal, especially the "Stop Solas" part (whom I hear Weekes has said emphatically said, "his story will end next game"), despite how the Inqusitiors is the one with all the personal history and potential emotional investment in the guy. We spent all of DAI slowly getting to know Solas as the Inquisitor, then Trespasser boldly revealed his identity as the Dread Wolf to our Quizzy, then set up their antagonistic rivalry, with Solas vowing to tear down the Veil and the Inquisitor vowing to stop him... then ZOINK! Some random stranger who wouldn't know Solas from a hole in the ground is the one who's going to stop him next game?

 

Again, Quizzy was the one to stop Corypheus despite Hawke having all the history with him, and now the next protagonist will no doubt stop Solas despite the Inquisitor having all the personal history and potential emotional investment in him. (Whether friendship, romance, or even "I've been waiting a long time to give you this knuckle-sandwich.") 

 

BioWare can do whatever they want, of course, it's their Intellectual Property, but I think it'd make for more emotionally compelling and engaging stories if they'd let protagonists cash in on the emotional investment they put into their interactions with companions and antagonists in their games, and let them finish their stories and defeat their baddies with emotionally satisfying conclusions. 

Yes, exactly! All of that.

 

 

I honestly don't think "I killed him that one time but he didn't die" counts as "having all the history with him". The Inquisitor absolutely had more of a history. 

I don't think anyone is comparing the two because they think they are equal in gravity, but because they are similar in concept. I think everyone who wanted the Inquisitor back knows that Hawke's connection to Corypheus was not anywhere near the same level as Solas with the Inquisitor, but it was still less satisfying to finish that story as Quizzy than Hawke, even if it's on a much smaller scale. Ditto for the mage-templar war.

[In Exile]

I don't think anyone is comparing the two because they think they are equal in gravity, but because they are similar in concept. I think everyone who wanted the Inquisitor back knows that Hawke's connection to Corypheus was not anywhere near the same level as Solas with the Inquisitor, but it was still less satisfying to finish that story as Quizzy than Hawke, even if it's on a much smaller scale. Ditto for the mage-templar war.

 

And now we're back to the point about how Shepard being the protagonist of ME is unsatisfying because Anderson had more of a history with Saren. 

[Dorrieb]

And now we're back to the point about how Shepard being the protagonist of ME is unsatisfying because Anderson had more of a history with Saren. 

 

If you had experienced that history in a previous game playing as Anderson, it might be.

[Secret Rare]

New protagonists every game doesn't work with the current game foundations,which is mostly built upon cliffhangers  with plenty of returning characters that cause a sensation of disjunct between player and the protagonist.